Changing the T5 snapshot repository

[Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>]

A few minor changes are afoot with the Tapestry build. I've been
getting spanked on the Apache Board list for being so sloppy about
releases.

First, the Tapestry snapshots will go into a new repository:
http://people.apache.org/~hlship/tapestry-snapshot-repository.

This will help, because it will keep the Tapestry snapshots from
mixing in with all the Maven plugin snapshots (in the old location),
which should help people with build stability.

We're also going to be changing how we create builds; the release
manager (i.e., me) will tag and build the release, then upload it for
review by Tapestry committers. The goal here is to "review the bits",
to ensure that what we vote on is what eventually ends up downloaded
by the community (via Maven or traditional downloads).

-- 
Howard M. Lewis Ship
TWD Consulting, Inc.
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator and PMC Chair, Apache Tapestry
Creator, Apache HiveMind

Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work.  http://howardlewisship.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org

Re: Changing the T5 snapshot repository

[Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com>]

>From what I read there has been no community consensus on these rules
at all. All I see is Howard coming back on the list with some sort of
rules agreed upon somewhere else that I can't see.

I'm on the PMC and I have no control / idea where these rules are
coming from , nor do I agree with them...So I'd say something is
b0rken somewhere.

On 3/30/07, Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snipped>
>
> Absolutely, the PMC decides all the day-to-day stuff. When it comes to
> producing releases (which is one of the things all 40+ projects here
> have as a common goal), PMCs have certain guidelines themselves
> towards setting up an explicit community consensus based process on
> what artifacts constitute any particular release. The proposed
> procedure at the top of this thread is means to that end, IMO.
>
> -Rahul
>
>
> >
> > On 3/30/07, Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 3/30/07, Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Is there a definitive reference for all of these rules that are
> > > > leaking out in bits and pieces?
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to know what I'm getting into/buying before I put anymore
> > > > effort into a project under apache. I think that's fair.
> > > >
> > > <snip/>
> > >
> > > I found this useful when I read it a few years ago (see menu bar on right):
> > >
> > >  http://www.apache.org/foundation/
> > >
> > > Incidently, Ted Husted created a summary cheat-sheet a couple of days ago:
> > >
> > >  http://jroller.com/page/TedHusted?entry=apache_rules_002
> > >
> > > (for example, item 7 in that post is related to part of the email below)
> > >
> > > -Rahul
> > >
> <snap/>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Jesse Kuhnert
Tapestry/Dojo team member/developer

Open source based consulting work centered around
dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind. http://blog.opencomponentry.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org

Re: Changing the T5 snapshot repository

[Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com>]

Leaving board@ out, I have nothing for them.

On 3/30/07, Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes I've known about that page. One quote in particular stands out for
> me and is what I thought all of this was about :
>
> "Since the appointed Project Management Committees have the power to
> create their own self-governing rules, there is no single vision on
> how PMCs should run a project and the communities they host."
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#management
>
<snip/>

Absolutely, the PMC decides all the day-to-day stuff. When it comes to
producing releases (which is one of the things all 40+ projects here
have as a common goal), PMCs have certain guidelines themselves
towards setting up an explicit community consensus based process on
what artifacts constitute any particular release. The proposed
procedure at the top of this thread is means to that end, IMO.

-Rahul


>
> On 3/30/07, Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 3/30/07, Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Is there a definitive reference for all of these rules that are
> > > leaking out in bits and pieces?
> > >
> > > I'd like to know what I'm getting into/buying before I put anymore
> > > effort into a project under apache. I think that's fair.
> > >
> > <snip/>
> >
> > I found this useful when I read it a few years ago (see menu bar on right):
> >
> >  http://www.apache.org/foundation/
> >
> > Incidently, Ted Husted created a summary cheat-sheet a couple of days ago:
> >
> >  http://jroller.com/page/TedHusted?entry=apache_rules_002
> >
> > (for example, item 7 in that post is related to part of the email below)
> >
> > -Rahul
> >
<snap/>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org

Re: Changing the T5 snapshot repository

[Massimo Lusetti <ml...@gmail.com>]

On 3/30/07, Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes I've known about that page. One quote in particular stands out for
> me and is what I thought all of this was about :
>
> "Since the appointed Project Management Committees have the power to
> create their own self-governing rules, there is no single vision on
> how PMCs should run a project and the communities they host."
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#management

Good point Jesse.

-- 
Massimo
http://meridio.blogspot.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org

Re: Changing the T5 snapshot repository

["William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>]

Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> Yes I've known about that page. One quote in particular stands out for
> me and is what I thought all of this was about :
> 
> "Since the appointed Project Management Committees have the power to
> create their own self-governing rules, there is no single vision on
> how PMCs should run a project and the communities they host."
> 
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#management

Good pointer that deserves updating, thanks.  You have the power to
manage the project as appropriate for the community of developers, but
certain legal specifics (and licenses, crypto export, releases and some
other specific bits have *legal* implications to the foundation) follow
the board's policy (which isn't spelled out well enough, all agree, and
a few have offered to chip in to straighten up the situation at least
within http://www.apache.org/dev/ as a starting point).



---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org

Re: Changing the T5 snapshot repository

[Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com>]

Yes I've known about that page. One quote in particular stands out for
me and is what I thought all of this was about :

"Since the appointed Project Management Committees have the power to
create their own self-governing rules, there is no single vision on
how PMCs should run a project and the communities they host."

http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#management


On 3/30/07, Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/30/07, Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Is there a definitive reference for all of these rules that are
> > leaking out in bits and pieces?
> >
> > I'd like to know what I'm getting into/buying before I put anymore
> > effort into a project under apache. I think that's fair.
> >
> <snip/>
>
> I found this useful when I read it a few years ago (see menu bar on right):
>
>  http://www.apache.org/foundation/
>
> Incidently, Ted Husted created a summary cheat-sheet a couple of days ago:
>
>  http://jroller.com/page/TedHusted?entry=apache_rules_002
>
> (for example, item 7 in that post is related to part of the email below)
>
> -Rahul
>
>
> > On 3/29/07, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > A few minor changes are afoot with the Tapestry build. I've been
> > > getting spanked on the Apache Board list for being so sloppy about
> > > releases.
> > >
> > > First, the Tapestry snapshots will go into a new repository:
> > > http://people.apache.org/~hlship/tapestry-snapshot-repository.
> > >
> > > This will help, because it will keep the Tapestry snapshots from
> > > mixing in with all the Maven plugin snapshots (in the old location),
> > > which should help people with build stability.
> > >
> > > We're also going to be changing how we create builds; the release
> > > manager (i.e., me) will tag and build the release, then upload it for
> > > review by Tapestry committers. The goal here is to "review the bits",
> > > to ensure that what we vote on is what eventually ends up downloaded
> > > by the community (via Maven or traditional downloads).
> > >
> <snip-email-signatures/>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Jesse Kuhnert
Tapestry/Dojo team member/developer

Open source based consulting work centered around
dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind. http://blog.opencomponentry.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org

Re: Changing the T5 snapshot repository

[Rahul Akolkar <ra...@gmail.com>]

On 3/30/07, Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a definitive reference for all of these rules that are
> leaking out in bits and pieces?
>
> I'd like to know what I'm getting into/buying before I put anymore
> effort into a project under apache. I think that's fair.
>
<snip/>

I found this useful when I read it a few years ago (see menu bar on right):

 http://www.apache.org/foundation/

Incidently, Ted Husted created a summary cheat-sheet a couple of days ago:

 http://jroller.com/page/TedHusted?entry=apache_rules_002

(for example, item 7 in that post is related to part of the email below)

-Rahul


> On 3/29/07, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > A few minor changes are afoot with the Tapestry build. I've been
> > getting spanked on the Apache Board list for being so sloppy about
> > releases.
> >
> > First, the Tapestry snapshots will go into a new repository:
> > http://people.apache.org/~hlship/tapestry-snapshot-repository.
> >
> > This will help, because it will keep the Tapestry snapshots from
> > mixing in with all the Maven plugin snapshots (in the old location),
> > which should help people with build stability.
> >
> > We're also going to be changing how we create builds; the release
> > manager (i.e., me) will tag and build the release, then upload it for
> > review by Tapestry committers. The goal here is to "review the bits",
> > to ensure that what we vote on is what eventually ends up downloaded
> > by the community (via Maven or traditional downloads).
> >
<snip-email-signatures/>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org

Re: Changing the T5 snapshot repository

[Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com>]

I've heard this argument before as well, and I'm not buying it. I've
been camped out on the apache legal mailing list for long enough now
to know that apache is just as legally liable for every svn/cvs commit
/ web site change / etc as it is on "releases" . They are all the same
thing being hosted on apache servers.

So really - these new rules feel like arbitrary creations by
someone(s) who like to solve problems with rules instead of fixing the
problems themselves.  They also don't appear to agree with previous
incarnations of the board...Which is understandable given how things
change over time, but speaking to them as if they were gospel that has
always existed is just untrue. .

On 3/30/07, Angelo Turetta <at...@bestunion.it> wrote:
> Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> > Is there a definitive reference for all of these rules that are
> > leaking out in bits and pieces?
> >
> > On 3/29/07, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I've been
> >> getting spanked on the Apache Board list for being so sloppy about
> >> releases.
>
>   (my personal thoughts: IANAL, and not even an Apache Foundation member)
>
> I think the Foundation is mostly concerned about the liability issues.
> Someone has to explicitly assume the responsibility for anything that is
> officially released to the public form the Foundation's projects.
> Snapshots have less strict requirements, provided they are clearly
> identifiable as unreleased artifacts (and not easily mistaken for
> officially released ones)
>
> So I think this is not an interference on the internal organization of
> the T community, but rather a legal requirement about the published
> artifacts.
>
> Angelo.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Jesse Kuhnert
Tapestry/Dojo team member/developer

Open source based consulting work centered around
dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind. http://blog.opencomponentry.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org

Re: Changing the T5 snapshot repository

[Angelo Turetta <at...@bestunion.it>]

Jesse Kuhnert wrote:
> Is there a definitive reference for all of these rules that are
> leaking out in bits and pieces?
> 
> On 3/29/07, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've been
>> getting spanked on the Apache Board list for being so sloppy about
>> releases.

  (my personal thoughts: IANAL, and not even an Apache Foundation member)

I think the Foundation is mostly concerned about the liability issues. 
Someone has to explicitly assume the responsibility for anything that is 
officially released to the public form the Foundation's projects.
Snapshots have less strict requirements, provided they are clearly 
identifiable as unreleased artifacts (and not easily mistaken for 
officially released ones)

So I think this is not an interference on the internal organization of 
the T community, but rather a legal requirement about the published 
artifacts.

Angelo.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org

Re: Changing the T5 snapshot repository

[Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com>]

Is there a definitive reference for all of these rules that are
leaking out in bits and pieces?

I'd like to know what I'm getting into/buying before I put anymore
effort into a project under apache. I think that's fair.

On 3/29/07, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A few minor changes are afoot with the Tapestry build. I've been
> getting spanked on the Apache Board list for being so sloppy about
> releases.
>
> First, the Tapestry snapshots will go into a new repository:
> http://people.apache.org/~hlship/tapestry-snapshot-repository.
>
> This will help, because it will keep the Tapestry snapshots from
> mixing in with all the Maven plugin snapshots (in the old location),
> which should help people with build stability.
>
> We're also going to be changing how we create builds; the release
> manager (i.e., me) will tag and build the release, then upload it for
> review by Tapestry committers. The goal here is to "review the bits",
> to ensure that what we vote on is what eventually ends up downloaded
> by the community (via Maven or traditional downloads).
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> TWD Consulting, Inc.
> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> Creator and PMC Chair, Apache Tapestry
> Creator, Apache HiveMind
>
> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> and project work.  http://howardlewisship.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Jesse Kuhnert
Tapestry/Dojo team member/developer

Open source based consulting work centered around
dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind. http://blog.opencomponentry.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org