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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com> on 2008/12/22 18:14:09 UTC
PIWI / PHP Projects in Apache
Hi all,
we have developed a web framework in PHP, called PIWI:
- http://piwi.googlecode.com/
- http://piwiframework.de/
Codebase supports very much features right now and only lacks user
documentation and has some open discussions left. Find a feature list
below.
It heavily borrows ideas and concepts from Apache Cocoon and Apache
Forrest although it is implemented in PHP. Cause of this I think that
Apache would be a good host for this project.
I allready surfed a while through the incubator and found one PHP
project (log4php) which doesn't look very active. Does it make sense
to propose a new PHP project for apache? I really think that apache
would benefit of PHP projects. In my dreams there is a php.apache.org
TLP someday, hopefully hosting it's subprojects PIWI and maybe
log4PHP.
However, please give me your feedback. If somebody is interested in
mentoring us with this project, let me know. If you think it makes no
sense to bring another PHP project to apache, let me know too. Your
feedback is highly appreciated.
Best regards,
Christian
Features:
- Crawler for static content generation
- Forms & Form Validation
- Serializer: HTML, PDF (with non-ASL software), Excel (very basic),
XML, Word (very basic too)
- Internal PIWI-Format is a subset of XHTML
- Generators (Generate XML from within other
XML-Structures)
- Connectors (Connect a Generator to Databases)
- Authentification
- Custom XML tags with custom XSLT stylesheets
- Easy upgrading from previous versions
- Caching of content to reduce processor time
- Easy template creation for cool layouts :-)
- Localization (just with telling in the site.xml which pages are
written in which language)
- Menu-Generation
- DataGridGenerator (generate html tables out of SQL-Statements)
and so on.
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Re: PIWI / PHP Projects in Apache
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
> 1. Forget php.apache.org TLP. We don't want technology umbrellas, and
> working actively to get rid of those we have. So, your aim would be a
> piwi.apache.org TLP instead, which is fine ambition.
that would be great too :-) Or maybe scripting.apache.org? JRuby,
Groovy or other scripting based projects could be hosted.
> 2. A PHP project at Apache is not a problem per se, IMHO. But, your
> main challenge will be (just like log4php) to attract enough momentum
> to get the community going. I doubt that there are many existing
> Apache committers that are in deep with PHP, so you won't have this
> 'automatic attention of 1000 developers' like a Java project would.
I asked at the log4php list about their activity and experiences, but
didn't get any response right now. I agree that there is less PHP
activity in the Apache Community. But I think this should change and
ASF could benefit of more PHP code. This is one reason why we want to
incubate with PIWI.
The other is: we (the two PIWI-Developers) are both Java-Programmers
and benefit in our day jobs from Apache Software. I also have
contributed some lines of java code to Commons. We simply love the
ASF.
> Maybe that sounds discouraging, but it is my personal take on the
> subject. Many good sites are LAMP driven, and personally I would like
> to see more PHP stuff coming to Apache, but *I* can't write a single
> line of code, so no help from here...
Its not discouraging, it sounds realistic. Even when it's hard work to
incubate, we are willing to do so. I am quite sure, if the first step
has been done, other cool projects may follow. Since Java6 has such
cool scripting features, I am quite sure that PHP will play a bigger
part in the Java-Community (besides JRuby and Groovy and others) in
the future.
Having said that, we are two developers currently and have enough
manpower for the further development of this project. We could need
some help with Apaches Incubation process, writing proposals and so
on. As far as I understood, this role is called a Mentor.
> P.S. If you are not subscribed to the mailing list, hurry up and do
> so, because most won't answer with you in CC.
Accordingly to the how-to-incubate document, I allready did that :-)
Thanks for your answer!
Best regards,
Christian
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Re: PIWI / PHP Projects in Apache
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Christian Grobmeier
<gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I allready surfed a while through the incubator and found one PHP
> project (log4php) which doesn't look very active. Does it make sense
> to propose a new PHP project for apache? I really think that apache
> would benefit of PHP projects. In my dreams there is a php.apache.org
> TLP someday, hopefully hosting it's subprojects PIWI and maybe
> log4PHP.
1. Forget php.apache.org TLP. We don't want technology umbrellas, and
working actively to get rid of those we have. So, your aim would be a
piwi.apache.org TLP instead, which is fine ambition.
2. A PHP project at Apache is not a problem per se, IMHO. But, your
main challenge will be (just like log4php) to attract enough momentum
to get the community going. I doubt that there are many existing
Apache committers that are in deep with PHP, so you won't have this
'automatic attention of 1000 developers' like a Java project would.
Maybe that sounds discouraging, but it is my personal take on the
subject. Many good sites are LAMP driven, and personally I would like
to see more PHP stuff coming to Apache, but *I* can't write a single
line of code, so no help from here...
What does the rest of the Incubator think?
Cheers
Niclas
P.S. If you are not subscribed to the mailing list, hurry up and do
so, because most won't answer with you in CC.
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Re: PIWI / PHP Projects in Apache
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Christian Grobmeier
<gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm not sure of a TLP called php.apache.org, but having lots of projects
>> written in PHP is a good thing :-)
>
> Since Niclas Hedman pointed out that Apache doesn't want technology
> umbrellas, I am stuck with the idea of scripting.apache.org which
> hosts not only php, but also JRuby, Ruby and other scripting stuff.
It is still an umbrella.
Negative umbrellas are when the Top-Level Project is split into many
smaller communities, where the PMC members are not involved in all,
and at least a large portion of them involved in most of the
sub-projects. So, doing a php.apache.org or scripting.apache.org will
be voted down by many, myself included. The umbrellas that still exist
at ASF are slowly being dismantled.
But this discussion is irrelevant to enter incubation.
Cheers
Niclas
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Re: PIWI / PHP Projects in Apache
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
> I'm not sure of a TLP called php.apache.org, but having lots of projects
> written in PHP is a good thing :-)
Since Niclas Hedman pointed out that Apache doesn't want technology
umbrellas, I am stuck with the idea of scripting.apache.org which
hosts not only php, but also JRuby, Ruby and other scripting stuff.
One goal of the project could be to write scripts, which can be run in
a java enviroment. This may attract the java developers a bit more.
I would gladly bring PIWI to a state in which it can be run out from
the Java6-Scripting Engine.
>> However, please give me your feedback. If somebody is interested in
>> mentoring us with this project, let me know. If you think it makes no
>> sense to bring another PHP project to apache, let me know too. Your
>> feedback is highly appreciated.
>
> I think this would be cool.
Thanks!
Christian
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Re: PIWI / PHP Projects in Apache
Posted by Paul Querna <ch...@force-elite.com>.
Christian Grobmeier wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> we have developed a web framework in PHP, called PIWI:
>
> - http://piwi.googlecode.com/
> - http://piwiframework.de/
>
> Codebase supports very much features right now and only lacks user
> documentation and has some open discussions left. Find a feature list
> below.
>
> It heavily borrows ideas and concepts from Apache Cocoon and Apache
> Forrest although it is implemented in PHP. Cause of this I think that
> Apache would be a good host for this project.
>
> I allready surfed a while through the incubator and found one PHP
> project (log4php) which doesn't look very active. Does it make sense
> to propose a new PHP project for apache? I really think that apache
> would benefit of PHP projects. In my dreams there is a php.apache.org
> TLP someday, hopefully hosting it's subprojects PIWI and maybe
> log4PHP.
I'm not sure of a TLP called php.apache.org, but having lots of projects
written in PHP is a good thing :-)
> However, please give me your feedback. If somebody is interested in
> mentoring us with this project, let me know. If you think it makes no
> sense to bring another PHP project to apache, let me know too. Your
> feedback is highly appreciated.
I think this would be cool.
-Paul
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