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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> on 2010/11/17 13:56:23 UTC
how to apply trademark symbols to Apache Subversion
Hi Legal peeps,
The Subversion community updated the website to conform to the new
guidelines, but we have a question on how to apply the appropriate
trademark symbols. The guideline says to put a (tm) at the end of the
first use of "Apache Subversion", however, "Subversion" (alone) is a
*registered* trademark. Should we just put an (r) after the first use
of Subversion and leave it at that? And if that first use is "Apache
Subversion(r)", would that still be fine? Maybe we should put an (r)
after the first "Apache Subversion" and the first "Subversion" to
clarify what is registered?
Thanks,
-g
Re: how to apply trademark symbols to Apache Subversion
Posted by "C. Michael Pilato" <cm...@collab.net>.
On 11/17/2010 10:35 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 09:08, C. Michael Pilato <cm...@collab.net> wrote:
>> On 11/17/2010 08:56 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
>>> Hi Legal peeps,
>>>
>>> The Subversion community updated the website to conform to the new
>>> guidelines, but we have a question on how to apply the appropriate
>>> trademark symbols. The guideline says to put a (tm) at the end of the
>>> first use of "Apache Subversion", however, "Subversion" (alone) is a
>>> *registered* trademark. Should we just put an (r) after the first use
>>> of Subversion and leave it at that? And if that first use is "Apache
>>> Subversion(r)", would that still be fine? Maybe we should put an (r)
>>> after the first "Apache Subversion" and the first "Subversion" to
>>> clarify what is registered?
>>
>> I would expected that the common practice would be to, for the first use of
>> "Apache Subversion", display as "Apache(tm) Subversion(r)".
>
> Well, we have three terms/phrases in play here:
>
> * Apache(tm)
> * Subversion(r)
> * Apache Subversion ... ??
>
> The first two are easy. But we also want to reserve "Apache
> Subversion", much like we have "Apache Tomcat(tm)" (where the (tm) is
> implied for the two-word phrase)
I see your point, but you can't use "Apache Subversion" without running into
the marks for each (both!) of those words. Is there any value in trying to
distinguish between
tm("Apache Subversion")
and:
tm("Apache") + r("Subversion")
?
--
C. Michael Pilato <cm...@collab.net>
CollabNet <> www.collab.net <> Distributed Development On Demand
Re: how to apply trademark symbols to Apache Subversion
Posted by "C. Michael Pilato" <cm...@collab.net>.
On 11/17/2010 06:38 PM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
> Which trademarks are important here?
>
>> * Apache(tm)
>> * Subversion(r)
>> * Apache Subversion ... ??
>
> The TM and R symbols are appropriate for the first two, because they are by
> far the most important marks referred to on that web page. Note that,
> because the first two are ASF marks, therefore the combination of them is
> also our mark. We would never tolerate some other company putting Apache and
> Subversion together and creating their own mark for software!
>
> I hope, at the bottom of that web page you will say, in words:
>
> Apache and Apache Subversion are trademarks, and Subversion is a
> registered trademark, of The Apache Software Foundation.
Because there are a few more marks to mention, I went with a two-sentence
approach. The notice on the subversion.a.o pages now reads as follows:
Apache, Apache Subversion, and the Apache feather logo are trademarks
of The Apache Software Foundation. Subversion and the Apache Subversion
logo are registered trademarks of The Apache Software Foundation.
While I was there, I changed the header to read:
Apache(tm) Subversion(R)
--
C. Michael Pilato <cm...@collab.net>
CollabNet <> www.collab.net <> Distributed Development On Demand
Re: how to apply trademark symbols to Apache Subversion
Posted by "C. Michael Pilato" <cm...@collab.net>.
On 11/17/2010 06:38 PM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
> Which trademarks are important here?
>
>> * Apache(tm)
>> * Subversion(r)
>> * Apache Subversion ... ??
>
> The TM and R symbols are appropriate for the first two, because they are by
> far the most important marks referred to on that web page. Note that,
> because the first two are ASF marks, therefore the combination of them is
> also our mark. We would never tolerate some other company putting Apache and
> Subversion together and creating their own mark for software!
>
> I hope, at the bottom of that web page you will say, in words:
>
> Apache and Apache Subversion are trademarks, and Subversion is a
> registered trademark, of The Apache Software Foundation.
Because there are a few more marks to mention, I went with a two-sentence
approach. The notice on the subversion.a.o pages now reads as follows:
Apache, Apache Subversion, and the Apache feather logo are trademarks
of The Apache Software Foundation. Subversion and the Apache Subversion
logo are registered trademarks of The Apache Software Foundation.
While I was there, I changed the header to read:
Apache(tm) Subversion(R)
--
C. Michael Pilato <cm...@collab.net>
CollabNet <> www.collab.net <> Distributed Development On Demand
RE: how to apply trademark symbols to Apache Subversion
Posted by Lawrence Rosen <lr...@rosenlaw.com>.
Which trademarks are important here?
> * Apache(tm)
> * Subversion(r)
> * Apache Subversion ... ??
The TM and R symbols are appropriate for the first two, because they are by
far the most important marks referred to on that web page. Note that,
because the first two are ASF marks, therefore the combination of them is
also our mark. We would never tolerate some other company putting Apache and
Subversion together and creating their own mark for software!
I hope, at the bottom of that web page you will say, in words:
Apache and Apache Subversion are trademarks, and Subversion is a
registered trademark, of The Apache Software Foundation.
/Larry
P.S. How close are we to our registration of the "Apache" mark? Only after
that happens, we can change that TM to R, and modify the word notice -- if
we then want to take the time to do so.
/Larry
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Stein [mailto:gstein@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:36 AM
> To: C. Michael Pilato
> Cc: legal-discuss@apache.org; trademarks@apache.org;
> dev@subversion.apache.org
> Subject: Re: how to apply trademark symbols to Apache Subversion
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 09:08, C. Michael Pilato <cm...@collab.net>
> wrote:
> > On 11/17/2010 08:56 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
> >> Hi Legal peeps,
> >>
> >> The Subversion community updated the website to conform to the new
> >> guidelines, but we have a question on how to apply the appropriate
> >> trademark symbols. The guideline says to put a (tm) at the end of
> the
> >> first use of "Apache Subversion", however, "Subversion" (alone) is a
> >> *registered* trademark. Should we just put an (r) after the first
> use
> >> of Subversion and leave it at that? And if that first use is "Apache
> >> Subversion(r)", would that still be fine? Maybe we should put an (r)
> >> after the first "Apache Subversion" and the first "Subversion" to
> >> clarify what is registered?
> >
> > I would expected that the common practice would be to, for the first
> use of
> > "Apache Subversion", display as "Apache(tm) Subversion(r)".
>
> Well, we have three terms/phrases in play here:
>
> * Apache(tm)
> * Subversion(r)
> * Apache Subversion ... ??
>
> The first two are easy. But we also want to reserve "Apache
> Subversion", much like we have "Apache Tomcat(tm)" (where the (tm) is
> implied for the two-word phrase)
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: how to apply trademark symbols to Apache Subversion
Posted by "C. Michael Pilato" <cm...@collab.net>.
On 11/17/2010 10:35 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 09:08, C. Michael Pilato <cm...@collab.net> wrote:
>> On 11/17/2010 08:56 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
>>> Hi Legal peeps,
>>>
>>> The Subversion community updated the website to conform to the new
>>> guidelines, but we have a question on how to apply the appropriate
>>> trademark symbols. The guideline says to put a (tm) at the end of the
>>> first use of "Apache Subversion", however, "Subversion" (alone) is a
>>> *registered* trademark. Should we just put an (r) after the first use
>>> of Subversion and leave it at that? And if that first use is "Apache
>>> Subversion(r)", would that still be fine? Maybe we should put an (r)
>>> after the first "Apache Subversion" and the first "Subversion" to
>>> clarify what is registered?
>>
>> I would expected that the common practice would be to, for the first use of
>> "Apache Subversion", display as "Apache(tm) Subversion(r)".
>
> Well, we have three terms/phrases in play here:
>
> * Apache(tm)
> * Subversion(r)
> * Apache Subversion ... ??
>
> The first two are easy. But we also want to reserve "Apache
> Subversion", much like we have "Apache Tomcat(tm)" (where the (tm) is
> implied for the two-word phrase)
I see your point, but you can't use "Apache Subversion" without running into
the marks for each (both!) of those words. Is there any value in trying to
distinguish between
tm("Apache Subversion")
and:
tm("Apache") + r("Subversion")
?
--
C. Michael Pilato <cm...@collab.net>
CollabNet <> www.collab.net <> Distributed Development On Demand
RE: how to apply trademark symbols to Apache Subversion
Posted by Lawrence Rosen <lr...@rosenlaw.com>.
Which trademarks are important here?
> * Apache(tm)
> * Subversion(r)
> * Apache Subversion ... ??
The TM and R symbols are appropriate for the first two, because they are by
far the most important marks referred to on that web page. Note that,
because the first two are ASF marks, therefore the combination of them is
also our mark. We would never tolerate some other company putting Apache and
Subversion together and creating their own mark for software!
I hope, at the bottom of that web page you will say, in words:
Apache and Apache Subversion are trademarks, and Subversion is a
registered trademark, of The Apache Software Foundation.
/Larry
P.S. How close are we to our registration of the "Apache" mark? Only after
that happens, we can change that TM to R, and modify the word notice -- if
we then want to take the time to do so.
/Larry
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Stein [mailto:gstein@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:36 AM
> To: C. Michael Pilato
> Cc: legal-discuss@apache.org; trademarks@apache.org;
> dev@subversion.apache.org
> Subject: Re: how to apply trademark symbols to Apache Subversion
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 09:08, C. Michael Pilato <cm...@collab.net>
> wrote:
> > On 11/17/2010 08:56 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
> >> Hi Legal peeps,
> >>
> >> The Subversion community updated the website to conform to the new
> >> guidelines, but we have a question on how to apply the appropriate
> >> trademark symbols. The guideline says to put a (tm) at the end of
> the
> >> first use of "Apache Subversion", however, "Subversion" (alone) is a
> >> *registered* trademark. Should we just put an (r) after the first
> use
> >> of Subversion and leave it at that? And if that first use is "Apache
> >> Subversion(r)", would that still be fine? Maybe we should put an (r)
> >> after the first "Apache Subversion" and the first "Subversion" to
> >> clarify what is registered?
> >
> > I would expected that the common practice would be to, for the first
> use of
> > "Apache Subversion", display as "Apache(tm) Subversion(r)".
>
> Well, we have three terms/phrases in play here:
>
> * Apache(tm)
> * Subversion(r)
> * Apache Subversion ... ??
>
> The first two are easy. But we also want to reserve "Apache
> Subversion", much like we have "Apache Tomcat(tm)" (where the (tm) is
> implied for the two-word phrase)
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: how to apply trademark symbols to Apache Subversion
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 09:08, C. Michael Pilato <cm...@collab.net> wrote:
> On 11/17/2010 08:56 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
>> Hi Legal peeps,
>>
>> The Subversion community updated the website to conform to the new
>> guidelines, but we have a question on how to apply the appropriate
>> trademark symbols. The guideline says to put a (tm) at the end of the
>> first use of "Apache Subversion", however, "Subversion" (alone) is a
>> *registered* trademark. Should we just put an (r) after the first use
>> of Subversion and leave it at that? And if that first use is "Apache
>> Subversion(r)", would that still be fine? Maybe we should put an (r)
>> after the first "Apache Subversion" and the first "Subversion" to
>> clarify what is registered?
>
> I would expected that the common practice would be to, for the first use of
> "Apache Subversion", display as "Apache(tm) Subversion(r)".
Well, we have three terms/phrases in play here:
* Apache(tm)
* Subversion(r)
* Apache Subversion ... ??
The first two are easy. But we also want to reserve "Apache
Subversion", much like we have "Apache Tomcat(tm)" (where the (tm) is
implied for the two-word phrase)
Cheers,
-g
Re: how to apply trademark symbols to Apache Subversion
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 09:08, C. Michael Pilato <cm...@collab.net> wrote:
> On 11/17/2010 08:56 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
>> Hi Legal peeps,
>>
>> The Subversion community updated the website to conform to the new
>> guidelines, but we have a question on how to apply the appropriate
>> trademark symbols. The guideline says to put a (tm) at the end of the
>> first use of "Apache Subversion", however, "Subversion" (alone) is a
>> *registered* trademark. Should we just put an (r) after the first use
>> of Subversion and leave it at that? And if that first use is "Apache
>> Subversion(r)", would that still be fine? Maybe we should put an (r)
>> after the first "Apache Subversion" and the first "Subversion" to
>> clarify what is registered?
>
> I would expected that the common practice would be to, for the first use of
> "Apache Subversion", display as "Apache(tm) Subversion(r)".
Well, we have three terms/phrases in play here:
* Apache(tm)
* Subversion(r)
* Apache Subversion ... ??
The first two are easy. But we also want to reserve "Apache
Subversion", much like we have "Apache Tomcat(tm)" (where the (tm) is
implied for the two-word phrase)
Cheers,
-g
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: how to apply trademark symbols to Apache Subversion
Posted by "C. Michael Pilato" <cm...@collab.net>.
On 11/17/2010 08:56 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
> Hi Legal peeps,
>
> The Subversion community updated the website to conform to the new
> guidelines, but we have a question on how to apply the appropriate
> trademark symbols. The guideline says to put a (tm) at the end of the
> first use of "Apache Subversion", however, "Subversion" (alone) is a
> *registered* trademark. Should we just put an (r) after the first use
> of Subversion and leave it at that? And if that first use is "Apache
> Subversion(r)", would that still be fine? Maybe we should put an (r)
> after the first "Apache Subversion" and the first "Subversion" to
> clarify what is registered?
I would expected that the common practice would be to, for the first use of
"Apache Subversion", display as "Apache(tm) Subversion(r)".
--
C. Michael Pilato <cm...@collab.net>
CollabNet <> www.collab.net <> Distributed Development On Demand