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Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by Dwayne Henderson <it...@gmail.com> on 2012/02/13 00:53:28 UTC
SVN vs Git
Hello!
Is there any chance we could get Apache to consider switching from SVN to
Git? Maybe even GitHub <http://github.com>? It should be easy if the SVN
repo is sensible and uses a clear structure.
Tech Talk: Linus Torvalds on git: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8
http://thinkvitamin.com/code/why-you-should-switch-from-subversion-to-git/
http://byte.kde.org/~zrusin/git/git-cheat-sheet-medium.png
--Dwayne
Re: SVN vs Git [MENTOR]
Posted by Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at> wrote:
>> Martin, Nick brings up something here that we need to be very careful of.
>> If we hope to graduate from the incubator then we need to be sure we're
>> doing things the "Apache Way". If we start working over on github I think
>> there is a very real danger that there could be two code conversations at
>> which point I believe we would be putting this project in jeopardy.
I've been following the conversation and right now I don't see a
problem. I'd place the following parameters around working on things
at github:
* all discussion about the code should happen on list
* github is an acceptable way for non-committers to work on patches.
They will need to be submitted as Jira tickets to be included in our
main repository.
* long, drawn-out work efforts should not occur on github and then be
brought to the community. Let us know what you are working on, work on
it a bit, then bring your work back here so we can all see it.
* committers should favor doing work in branches, whiteboard, etc. in
our svn tree. Yes it's harder for non-committers to contribute, but
when a non-committer starts to contribute he/she should not be a
non-committer much longer :-)
To summarize, I don't have a problem with people using github as a
place to share ideas. But those ideas should be discussed on-list and
developed in our repo as much as possible.
As a disclaimer, there's been *tons* of discussion about git and
github at Apache. My views may be way off of what the overall
foundation position as a whole is, so this is subject to change. But I
think we're ok as long as we focus on sharing work here on-list and
getting stuff into our svn repo as soon as possible.
Greg
Re: SVN vs Git [MENTOR]
Posted by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>.
On 14/02/2012 02:03, Kevin Korngut wrote:
>> As I said: Those groups and proposals could send it back using diffs and
>> entries. At this point a discussion would
>> be documented. So: While a community at github would "prepare" a proposal
>> the final discussion for a integration
>> would go on here.
> Martin, Nick brings up something here that we need to be very careful of.
> If we hope to graduate from the incubator then we need to be sure we're
> doing things the "Apache Way". If we start working over on github I think
> there is a very real danger that there could be two code conversations at
> which point I believe we would be putting this project in jeopardy.
>
I guess we need help from a mentor here.
yours
Martin.
Re: SVN vs Git
Posted by Kevin Korngut <ke...@spoon.as>.
>
>
>
> Discussion and code that happen outside Apache "don't happen" (that is how
>> all apache projects work).
>>
>
> As I said: Those groups and proposals could send it back using diffs and
> entries. At this point a discussion would
> be documented. So: While a community at github would "prepare" a proposal
> the final discussion for a integration
> would go on here.
>
>
Martin, Nick brings up something here that we need to be very careful of.
If we hope to graduate from the incubator then we need to be sure we're
doing things the "Apache Way". If we start working over on github I think
there is a very real danger that there could be two code conversations at
which point I believe we would be putting this project in jeopardy.
Re: SVN vs Git
Posted by Maciek Sakrejda <m....@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 9:08 AM, David Arno <da...@davidarno.org> wrote:
> If all the PPMC members are going to take Nicholas' "if I wasn't involved,
> then I won't accept it" attitude to the efforts of non-PPMC people, then the
> rest of us might as well just give up and go home now...
I would personally love official git (and especially github) support,
but let's not try to pretend that Nicholas is on a power trip here.
Flex is an Apache project now: that means something. Nicholas is
trying to protect that.
Re: SVN vs Git
Posted by Greg Reddin <gr...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:08 AM, David Arno <da...@davidarno.org> wrote:
> We may well want to undertake
> some big changes, involving lots of people who aren't committers.
There's a little problem with statements like this that we need to be
careful about. If we get involved in doing lots of work that is
involving lots of non-committers then we need to start adding these
people as committers. As soon as someone starts contributing work on a
consistent basis we need to invite them to become a committer.
We should not have long, drawn-out efforts of work involving a lot of
people who are not committers. We should instead have a growing
community, adding committers on a regular basis.
Greg
RE: SVN vs Git
Posted by David Arno <da...@davidarno.org>.
I'm definitely in agreement with Martin here. Because Apache has (very
necessary) policies to control what gets committed, it is not really geared
toward the potentially large community involvement that Flex might attract
when we finally get a chance to get going. We may well want to undertake
some big changes, involving lots of people who aren't committers. Or we may
want to simple share experimental ideas. Apache's SVN is not set up to
support either of these very well, whereas Github is. So it'll make complete
sense for collaborative development work to take place away from Apache and
for it to be fed back in - via Jira - when ready to form part of the
official Flex code.
If all the PPMC members are going to take Nicholas' "if I wasn't involved,
then I won't accept it" attitude to the efforts of non-PPMC people, then the
rest of us might as well just give up and go home now...
David.
Re: SVN vs Git
Posted by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>.
On 14/02/2012 01:15, Nicholas Kwiatkowski wrote:
> Understood, but PPMC members won't be watching the github instance -- we
> will only be watching the official Apache resources such as the GIT / SVN /
> Jira, so there is pretty much no chance of anything coming back.
The github branch - people would need provide a "diff" to the particular
used version using a jira entry.
All the PPMC members would need to do is watch the JIRA for merge
requests with attached diffs.
Doing a merge from a different SVN brunch into the trunk or doing a
merge from a git branch is pretty
much equally painful.
> Discussion and code that happen outside Apache "don't happen" (that is how
> all apache projects work).
As I said: Those groups and proposals could send it back using diffs and
entries. At this point a discussion would
be documented. So: While a community at github would "prepare" a
proposal the final discussion for a integration
would go on here.
> I don't see any PPMC blindly accepting changes
> that happen from outside into the official code base -- as that opens up
> another legal surface that could hurt the project
Why do you think I meant it "blindly"? At the time of the merge the
contributor of that diff would need to pass ICLA if it is a substantial
contribution.
yours
Martin.
Re: SVN vs Git
Posted by Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>.
Understood, but PPMC members won't be watching the github instance -- we
will only be watching the official Apache resources such as the GIT / SVN /
Jira, so there is pretty much no chance of anything coming back.
Discussion and code that happen outside Apache "don't happen" (that is how
all apache projects work). I don't see any PPMC blindly accepting changes
that happen from outside into the official code base -- as that opens up
another legal surface that could hurt the project (and I certify that you
didn't take that change from a copyrighted project? Not to say that would
be the case, but that is a real legal threat we have to deal with these
days)
-Nick
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>wrote:
> On 14/02/2012 00:57, Nicholas Kwiatkowski wrote:
>
>> I know people have talked about making a mirror of the SVN (and soon, Git)
>> repos on GitHub, but any changes committed to those mirrors will be
>> orphaned.
>>
>
> Any branch ever made in any system is by itself orphaned without constant
> merging.
> To get it back to the trunk the merge has to be done somehow. Currently
> the process
> involves Jira for all non-commiters. Github would make a discussion and
> collaboration
> possible before bringing a certain idea to Apache Flex.
>
> yours
> Martin.
>
Re: SVN vs Git
Posted by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>.
On 14/02/2012 00:57, Nicholas Kwiatkowski wrote:
> I know people have talked about making a mirror of the SVN (and soon, Git)
> repos on GitHub, but any changes committed to those mirrors will be
> orphaned.
Any branch ever made in any system is by itself orphaned without
constant merging.
To get it back to the trunk the merge has to be done somehow. Currently
the process
involves Jira for all non-commiters. Github would make a discussion and
collaboration
possible before bringing a certain idea to Apache Flex.
yours
Martin.
Re: SVN vs Git
Posted by Jeffry Houser <je...@dot-com-it.com>.
On 2/13/2012 10:57 AM, Nicholas Kwiatkowski wrote:
> Because of leagalise, we can't allow a github-style open-source project.
Based on my understanding of the Apache License and trademark stuff;
there is no reason someone can't create a copy of "Apache Flex' on
GitHub as long as they don't call it "Apache Flex". They should be able
to say "A copy of Apache Flex" or something similar, though.
Getting changes from that back into Apache flex would require either
contributor access or through the Apache JIRA instance, as far as I
know, though.
--
Jeffry Houser
Technical Entrepreneur
203-379-0773
--
http://www.flextras.com?c=104
UI Flex Components: Tested! Supported! Ready!
--
http://www.theflexshow.com
http://www.jeffryhouser.com
http://www.asktheflexpert.com
--
Part of the DotComIt Brain Trust
Re: SVN vs Git
Posted by Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>.
Martin,
Because of leagalise, we can't allow a github-style open-source project.
Apache affords us a legal protection for not only contributes, but those
companies that need to use the software. Because of this, all
the contributes need to sign a legal agreement (the ICLA) that releases the
rights to anything contributed before they get read/write access to the
repository. GitHub doesn't allow us to have the same control -- plus
Apache has already built a very nice infastrcture to handle all of our
needs.
I know people have talked about making a mirror of the SVN (and soon, Git)
repos on GitHub, but any changes committed to those mirrors will be
orphaned.
-Nick
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>wrote:
> On 14/02/2012 00:25, Kevin Korngut wrote:
>
>> If you do a search on the list there's a post from Bertrand, "FYI, I have
>> requested a Git mirror for Flex", it's not much of a thread so I'll repost
>> what was said there:
>>
> Git is not github. Github has indexing and community management.
> Different game than just having another repository.
>
> yours
> Martin.
>
Re: SVN vs Git
Posted by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>.
On 14/02/2012 00:25, Kevin Korngut wrote:
> If you do a search on the list there's a post from Bertrand, "FYI, I have
> requested a Git mirror for Flex", it's not much of a thread so I'll repost
> what was said there:
Git is not github. Github has indexing and community management.
Different game than just having another repository.
yours
Martin.
Re: SVN vs Git
Posted by Kevin Korngut <ke...@spoon.as>.
If you do a search on the list there's a post from Bertrand, "FYI, I have
requested a Git mirror for Flex", it's not much of a thread so I'll repost
what was said there:
"...at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-4366 - once that's
setup, the mirror(s) will be listed at git.apache.org (see links to
docs there)."
Kevin
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:13 AM, Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>wrote:
> On 13/02/2012 11:21, Nicholas Kwiatkowski wrote:
>
>> Github is not going to happen (for a variety of reasons)...
>>
> There is a difference between deployment/storing at github and working
> with github.
> If there is a github directory in sync (by some polling mechanism) with
> the svn
> of apache then people could use it for proposals and alike. The code is
> opensource
> and I see no violation of the APL by syncing the code to github.
>
> yours
> Martin.
>
Re: SVN vs Git
Posted by Martin Heidegger <mh...@leichtgewicht.at>.
On 13/02/2012 11:21, Nicholas Kwiatkowski wrote:
> Github is not going to happen (for a variety of reasons)...
There is a difference between deployment/storing at github and working
with github.
If there is a github directory in sync (by some polling mechanism) with
the svn
of apache then people could use it for proposals and alike. The code is
opensource
and I see no violation of the APL by syncing the code to github.
yours
Martin.
Re: SVN vs Git
Posted by Nicolas Bousquet <ni...@iscool-e.com>.
That's great news, really. Thanks.
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:21 AM, Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>wrote:
> Dwayne,
>
> Github is not going to happen (for a variety of reasons), but the
> infastrcture team at Apache is experimenting with GIT. For the short-term,
> we will be on SVN, but I know there are quite a few people that are looking
> forward to using GIT vs. SVN.
>
> -Nick
>
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Dwayne Henderson <
> its.code.in.here@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello!
> >
> > Is there any chance we could get Apache to consider switching from SVN to
> > Git? Maybe even GitHub <http://github.com>? It should be easy if the SVN
> > repo is sensible and uses a clear structure.
> >
> > Tech Talk: Linus Torvalds on git:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8
> >
> >
> http://thinkvitamin.com/code/why-you-should-switch-from-subversion-to-git/
> >
> > http://byte.kde.org/~zrusin/git/git-cheat-sheet-medium.png
> >
> > --Dwayne
> >
>
--
Nicolas Bousquet-Dencuff
*Flash developer*
IsCool Entertainment
43, rue d'Aboukir
75002 Paris
Re: SVN vs Git
Posted by Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>.
Dwayne,
Github is not going to happen (for a variety of reasons), but the
infastrcture team at Apache is experimenting with GIT. For the short-term,
we will be on SVN, but I know there are quite a few people that are looking
forward to using GIT vs. SVN.
-Nick
On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Dwayne Henderson <
its.code.in.here@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> Is there any chance we could get Apache to consider switching from SVN to
> Git? Maybe even GitHub <http://github.com>? It should be easy if the SVN
> repo is sensible and uses a clear structure.
>
> Tech Talk: Linus Torvalds on git:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8
>
> http://thinkvitamin.com/code/why-you-should-switch-from-subversion-to-git/
>
> http://byte.kde.org/~zrusin/git/git-cheat-sheet-medium.png
>
> --Dwayne
>