RE: Why Sun won't certify JBoss (was Re: "Jakarta is not an open source project in the pure community sense anymore")

[Stephane Bailliez <st...@haht.com>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:ceki@qos.ch]
[...]
> First, we don't know how much money Sun gets from licensing.

>From the top of my head, historically Sun makes 3% on the revenue made from
the licenses. As always, this base number is of course negociable depending
on the licensee, I bet Pramati does not pay the same price as IBM or BEA
does.

> Second, the price of the license will drop if independent
> implementations are allowed.  For App Servers, I think the barrier of
> entry is in the difficulty implementating the spec not in the 
> licensing.
> It's going to be JBoss, Weblogic, and Webspere for a long time. As
> such, BEA and IBM will be thrilled to see a lower price -- 
> assuming the price was high.

Does someone has numbers on JBoss deployment ?
Marc Fleury always mentions 'downloads', but hey, I downloaded JBoss maybe
10 times, that does not make me a commercial user.

The latests numbers says: BEA 34%, IBM 34%, Sun 7%, Oracle 6%, Sybase 4%, HP
3%, others 12%
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-865566.html

In 'others' there are loads of app servers (I think there are about 20 more
or less j2ee in the wild).

It is my understanding that huge corporations like banks (especially in
france - they have trouble coming to BEA) will always come close to IBM due
to their long time partnership and other huge corporation do not worry much
about the price of the app server IMHO. Clearly when a bank buys from $100M
of various licenses related to j2ee, there will be MUCH more involved in
development for the next 10 years or so...

JBoss would be into these corporations tomorrow, then they will face a
problem of training/support, clearly there will be a scalability problem,
you can't send the developpers to do this training, you will be forced to
dilute your knowledge and delegate to other companies certified as JBoss
-official-trainers or such.

Strictly my opinion of course. I'm not a visionary and often wrong. :)

> Again, my claims are long on speculation and short on facts.

Same. I do not have the contract. :)

Stephane

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RE: Why Sun won't certify JBoss (was Re: "Jakarta is not an open source project in the pure community sense anymore")

[Danny Angus <da...@thought.co.uk>]

I can verify this point;

> It is my understanding that huge corporations like banks (especially in
> france - they have trouble coming to BEA) will always come close
> to IBM due
> to their long time partnership

<snip>

> JBoss would be into these corporations tomorrow, then they will face a
> problem of training/support,


There is a Big Bank near here that we have been "involved" with, who cannot
"purchase" anything [not even cost free items] unless IBM Global Services
approve it, because IBMGS have won the training/support contract for the
banks systems and will be responsible for supporting the new aquisition.
IBMGS are therefore obviously going to increase their margin by only
supporting a small core of products, hardware and software, and making the
required purchase of a  product which may be a very poor match for the
specifications, but financially worthwhile for IBMGS and the Bank.

That is a true story.

The bank have a software division developing core banking systems. Because
of IBMGS involvement the bank has had to make a single desktop machine
specification for every seat in the organisation, thus a developer working
on core banking will be expected to use the same hardware/software
environment as a financial adviser working in a remote branch.

Apparently IBMGS dont support Linux, IT professionals were reduced to
sneaking it in under their cloaks in order to evaluate it.

And because IBM have a Big Name my Bank are prepared to shift all of the
responsibility for IT support onto them for a fixed fee.

Vive la difference.


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