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Posted to log4j-dev@logging.apache.org by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> on 2016/02/26 19:18:06 UTC
Education
https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712
What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an API too?
Gary
Re: Education
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
Maybe renaming log4-core to log4j-impl would help, but we make that
distinction on the site in some places already. We should not do that until
a major version change though since Maven coords should be changed as well.
Gary
On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Then the confusion might be stemming from that along with the fact that
> log4j-api and log4j-core are both called "log4j".
>
> On 26 February 2016 at 13:38, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
> wrote:
>
>> It more or less was. There was no separation of the API from the impl.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Do people think log4j1 was just an implementation, too?
>>
>> On 26 February 2016 at 12:18, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712
>>>
>>> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an API
>>> too?
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
Re: Education
Posted by Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>.
Then the confusion might be stemming from that along with the fact that
log4j-api and log4j-core are both called "log4j".
On 26 February 2016 at 13:38, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
wrote:
> It more or less was. There was no separation of the API from the impl.
>
> Ralph
>
> On Feb 26, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Do people think log4j1 was just an implementation, too?
>
> On 26 February 2016 at 12:18, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712
>>
>> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an API
>> too?
>>
>> Gary
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>
>
>
--
Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
Re: Education
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
It more or less was. There was no separation of the API from the impl.
Ralph
> On Feb 26, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Do people think log4j1 was just an implementation, too?
>
> On 26 February 2016 at 12:18, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712 <https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712>
> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an API too?
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>>
Re: Education
Posted by Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>.
Do people think log4j1 was just an implementation, too?
On 26 February 2016 at 12:18, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712
>
> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an API
> too?
>
> Gary
>
--
Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
Re: Education
Posted by Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>.
Plus log4j-api has more features than slf4j-api out of the box without
requiring additional impl support to handle. Some of these APIs could be
added to slf4j-api, of course, though they're not there yet.
On 29 February 2016 at 10:42, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> But we do provide an abstraction API, and in fact some of the design in
> has a bit of a LCD feel to it. For example, we do not have a
> Logger.setLevel() API.
>
> For good or bad, some folks DO want an abstracted logging API, and this is
> required to get a large stack of 3rd party components working together WRT
> logging.
>
> Gary
>
> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.staldal@magine.com
> > wrote:
>
>> I think the idea of having an abstraction API for different logging
>> implementation is inherently bad. Both commons-logging and SLF4J have
>> probably created more problems than they have solved.
>>
>> One reason I like Log4J 2 is that it doesn't claim to be an abstraction
>> API, and I see it as a way to eventually get out of this mess. It have
>> plugins (appenders, layouts, etc.) though, and that is good, that's where
>> the abstraction layer should be. I hope that one day people will stop using
>> commons-logging / SLF4J and use Log4J 2 directly instead.
>>
>> So I am one of the people who "think that log4j-api isn't analogous to
>> slf4j-api where log4j-core is like logback", and I like it that way.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> However, it is important to remember that SLF4J was created before
>>> Logback and was meant to be a new abstraction API. You can see that right
>>> here in the archives for this mailing list.
>>>
>>> OTOH, Log4j 2’s API was created so that “normal” users would be able to
>>> know what was safe to code against and what wasn’t. Log4j 1 had lots of
>>> problems because users were coding against pretty much all the components
>>> and expecting them to remain compatible.
>>>
>>> In the end, the result is similar. You can use either API and bind with
>>> another implementation, however binding with the “targeted” backend is
>>> still more efficient.
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>> On Feb 29, 2016, at 8:27 AM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Because some people think that log4j-api isn't analogous to slf4j-api
>>> where log4j-core is like logback. It's a naming confusion I'd guess.
>>>
>>> On 29 February 2016 at 03:38, Mikael Ståldal <mi...@magine.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why is it important to point out that Log4j 2 has API / impl separation?
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 10:33 PM, Ralph Goers <
>>>> ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Not on that site. The issue he is bringing up was discusses a few
>>>>> years ago either on one of our lists.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:24 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Is that worth pointing out?
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Ralph Goers <
>>>>> ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, that is understandable. He has been working on this stuff a
>>>>>> long time. And I know he wasn’t happy about the documentation issue, even
>>>>>> though all that documentation derived from the log4j 1 manual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, seems a little strong a reply. He sure has a lot of emotion
>>>>>> attached to the issue!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Ralph Goers <
>>>>>> ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an
>>>>>>> API too?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>>>> <gg...@apache.org>
>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>>> <gg...@apache.org>
>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>
>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>> Senior software developer
>>>>
>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com
>>>> <http://www.magine.com/>
>>>>
>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may
>>>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
>>>> email.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> [image: MagineTV]
>>
>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>> Senior software developer
>>
>> *Magine TV*
>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com
>>
>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may
>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
>> email.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>
--
Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
Re: Education
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
To be honest, I never wanted to promote the idea of people coding to the Log4j 2 API and then using something else. It is supported only because we have to.
As to Gary’s point, I never wanted Logger.setLevel() because it is really requires that a LoggerConfig be created behind the scene, if it doesn’t exist already, in order to change the level. I don’t think simple users should be able to affect the logging configuration.
Ralph
> On Feb 29, 2016, at 9:54 AM, Mikael Ståldal <mi...@magine.com> wrote:
>
> Currently it might be necessary to have an abstraction API in some cases, but I don't like the idea of promoting Log4J 2 as the best logging abstraction API. We should promote Log4J 2 as the best complete logging solution for the JVM.
>
> I see the possibility to plug in a different impl into log4j-api as a curious side effect, not a main feature.
>
> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 5:42 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> But we do provide an abstraction API, and in fact some of the design in has a bit of a LCD feel to it. For example, we do not have a Logger.setLevel() API.
>
> For good or bad, some folks DO want an abstracted logging API, and this is required to get a large stack of 3rd party components working together WRT logging.
>
> Gary
>
> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.staldal@magine.com <ma...@magine.com>> wrote:
> I think the idea of having an abstraction API for different logging implementation is inherently bad. Both commons-logging and SLF4J have probably created more problems than they have solved.
>
> One reason I like Log4J 2 is that it doesn't claim to be an abstraction API, and I see it as a way to eventually get out of this mess. It have plugins (appenders, layouts, etc.) though, and that is good, that's where the abstraction layer should be. I hope that one day people will stop using commons-logging / SLF4J and use Log4J 2 directly instead.
>
> So I am one of the people who "think that log4j-api isn't analogous to slf4j-api where log4j-core is like logback", and I like it that way.
>
> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com <ma...@dslextreme.com>> wrote:
> However, it is important to remember that SLF4J was created before Logback and was meant to be a new abstraction API. You can see that right here in the archives for this mailing list.
>
> OTOH, Log4j 2’s API was created so that “normal” users would be able to know what was safe to code against and what wasn’t. Log4j 1 had lots of problems because users were coding against pretty much all the components and expecting them to remain compatible.
>
> In the end, the result is similar. You can use either API and bind with another implementation, however binding with the “targeted” backend is still more efficient.
>
> Ralph
>
>> On Feb 29, 2016, at 8:27 AM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Because some people think that log4j-api isn't analogous to slf4j-api where log4j-core is like logback. It's a naming confusion I'd guess.
>>
>> On 29 February 2016 at 03:38, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.staldal@magine.com <ma...@magine.com>> wrote:
>> Why is it important to point out that Log4j 2 has API / impl separation?
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 10:33 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com <ma...@dslextreme.com>> wrote:
>> Not on that site. The issue he is bringing up was discusses a few years ago either on one of our lists.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:24 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is that worth pointing out?
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com <ma...@dslextreme.com>> wrote:
>>> Well, that is understandable. He has been working on this stuff a long time. And I know he wasn’t happy about the documentation issue, even though all that documentation derived from the log4j 1 manual.
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, seems a little strong a reply. He sure has a lot of emotion attached to the issue!
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com <ma...@dslextreme.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that!
>>>>
>>>> Ralph
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712 <https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712>
>>>>> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an API too?
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com> | ggregory@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com <http://garygregory.wordpress.com/>
>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ <http://garygregory.com/>
>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory <http://twitter.com/GaryGregory>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com> | ggregory@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com <http://garygregory.wordpress.com/>
>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ <http://garygregory.com/>
>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory <http://twitter.com/GaryGregory>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Mikael Ståldal
>> Senior software developer
>>
>> Magine TV
>> mikael.staldal@magine.com <ma...@magine.com>
>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com <http://www.magine.com/>
>>
>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Mikael Ståldal
> Senior software developer
>
> Magine TV
> mikael.staldal@magine.com <ma...@magine.com>
> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com <http://www.magine.com/>
>
> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email.
>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com> | ggregory@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com <http://garygregory.wordpress.com/>
> Home: http://garygregory.com/ <http://garygregory.com/>
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory <http://twitter.com/GaryGregory>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Mikael Ståldal
> Senior software developer
>
> Magine TV
> mikael.staldal@magine.com <ma...@magine.com>
> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com <http://www.magine.com/>
>
> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email.
Re: Education
Posted by Mikael Ståldal <mi...@magine.com>.
Currently it might be necessary to have an abstraction API in some cases,
but I don't like the idea of promoting Log4J 2 as the best logging
abstraction API. We should promote Log4J 2 as the best complete logging
solution for the JVM.
I see the possibility to plug in a different impl into log4j-api as a
curious side effect, not a main feature.
On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 5:42 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> But we do provide an abstraction API, and in fact some of the design in
> has a bit of a LCD feel to it. For example, we do not have a
> Logger.setLevel() API.
>
> For good or bad, some folks DO want an abstracted logging API, and this is
> required to get a large stack of 3rd party components working together WRT
> logging.
>
> Gary
>
> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.staldal@magine.com
> > wrote:
>
>> I think the idea of having an abstraction API for different logging
>> implementation is inherently bad. Both commons-logging and SLF4J have
>> probably created more problems than they have solved.
>>
>> One reason I like Log4J 2 is that it doesn't claim to be an abstraction
>> API, and I see it as a way to eventually get out of this mess. It have
>> plugins (appenders, layouts, etc.) though, and that is good, that's where
>> the abstraction layer should be. I hope that one day people will stop using
>> commons-logging / SLF4J and use Log4J 2 directly instead.
>>
>> So I am one of the people who "think that log4j-api isn't analogous to
>> slf4j-api where log4j-core is like logback", and I like it that way.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> However, it is important to remember that SLF4J was created before
>>> Logback and was meant to be a new abstraction API. You can see that right
>>> here in the archives for this mailing list.
>>>
>>> OTOH, Log4j 2’s API was created so that “normal” users would be able to
>>> know what was safe to code against and what wasn’t. Log4j 1 had lots of
>>> problems because users were coding against pretty much all the components
>>> and expecting them to remain compatible.
>>>
>>> In the end, the result is similar. You can use either API and bind with
>>> another implementation, however binding with the “targeted” backend is
>>> still more efficient.
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>> On Feb 29, 2016, at 8:27 AM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Because some people think that log4j-api isn't analogous to slf4j-api
>>> where log4j-core is like logback. It's a naming confusion I'd guess.
>>>
>>> On 29 February 2016 at 03:38, Mikael Ståldal <mi...@magine.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why is it important to point out that Log4j 2 has API / impl separation?
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 10:33 PM, Ralph Goers <
>>>> ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Not on that site. The issue he is bringing up was discusses a few
>>>>> years ago either on one of our lists.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:24 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Is that worth pointing out?
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Ralph Goers <
>>>>> ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, that is understandable. He has been working on this stuff a
>>>>>> long time. And I know he wasn’t happy about the documentation issue, even
>>>>>> though all that documentation derived from the log4j 1 manual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, seems a little strong a reply. He sure has a lot of emotion
>>>>>> attached to the issue!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Ralph Goers <
>>>>>> ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an
>>>>>>> API too?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>>>> <gg...@apache.org>
>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>>> <gg...@apache.org>
>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>
>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>> Senior software developer
>>>>
>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com
>>>> <http://www.magine.com/>
>>>>
>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may
>>>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
>>>> email.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> [image: MagineTV]
>>
>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>> Senior software developer
>>
>> *Magine TV*
>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com
>>
>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may
>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
>> email.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>
--
[image: MagineTV]
*Mikael Ståldal*
Senior software developer
*Magine TV*
mikael.staldal@magine.com
Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com
Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
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Re: Education
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
But we do provide an abstraction API, and in fact some of the design in has
a bit of a LCD feel to it. For example, we do not have a Logger.setLevel()
API.
For good or bad, some folks DO want an abstracted logging API, and this is
required to get a large stack of 3rd party components working together WRT
logging.
Gary
On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Mikael Ståldal <mi...@magine.com>
wrote:
> I think the idea of having an abstraction API for different logging
> implementation is inherently bad. Both commons-logging and SLF4J have
> probably created more problems than they have solved.
>
> One reason I like Log4J 2 is that it doesn't claim to be an abstraction
> API, and I see it as a way to eventually get out of this mess. It have
> plugins (appenders, layouts, etc.) though, and that is good, that's where
> the abstraction layer should be. I hope that one day people will stop using
> commons-logging / SLF4J and use Log4J 2 directly instead.
>
> So I am one of the people who "think that log4j-api isn't analogous to
> slf4j-api where log4j-core is like logback", and I like it that way.
>
> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
> wrote:
>
>> However, it is important to remember that SLF4J was created before
>> Logback and was meant to be a new abstraction API. You can see that right
>> here in the archives for this mailing list.
>>
>> OTOH, Log4j 2’s API was created so that “normal” users would be able to
>> know what was safe to code against and what wasn’t. Log4j 1 had lots of
>> problems because users were coding against pretty much all the components
>> and expecting them to remain compatible.
>>
>> In the end, the result is similar. You can use either API and bind with
>> another implementation, however binding with the “targeted” backend is
>> still more efficient.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>> On Feb 29, 2016, at 8:27 AM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Because some people think that log4j-api isn't analogous to slf4j-api
>> where log4j-core is like logback. It's a naming confusion I'd guess.
>>
>> On 29 February 2016 at 03:38, Mikael Ståldal <mi...@magine.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Why is it important to point out that Log4j 2 has API / impl separation?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 10:33 PM, Ralph Goers <
>>> ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not on that site. The issue he is bringing up was discusses a few years
>>>> ago either on one of our lists.
>>>>
>>>> Ralph
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:24 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is that worth pointing out?
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Ralph Goers <
>>>> ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, that is understandable. He has been working on this stuff a long
>>>>> time. And I know he wasn’t happy about the documentation issue, even though
>>>>> all that documentation derived from the log4j 1 manual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, seems a little strong a reply. He sure has a lot of emotion
>>>>> attached to the issue!
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Ralph Goers <
>>>>> ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an
>>>>>> API too?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>>> <gg...@apache.org>
>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>> <gg...@apache.org>
>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>
>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>> Senior software developer
>>>
>>> *Magine TV*
>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com
>>> <http://www.magine.com/>
>>>
>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may
>>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
>>> email.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> [image: MagineTV]
>
> *Mikael Ståldal*
> Senior software developer
>
> *Magine TV*
> mikael.staldal@magine.com
> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com
>
> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not
> copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
> email.
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
Re: Education
Posted by Mikael Ståldal <mi...@magine.com>.
I think the idea of having an abstraction API for different logging
implementation is inherently bad. Both commons-logging and SLF4J have
probably created more problems than they have solved.
One reason I like Log4J 2 is that it doesn't claim to be an abstraction
API, and I see it as a way to eventually get out of this mess. It have
plugins (appenders, layouts, etc.) though, and that is good, that's where
the abstraction layer should be. I hope that one day people will stop using
commons-logging / SLF4J and use Log4J 2 directly instead.
So I am one of the people who "think that log4j-api isn't analogous to
slf4j-api where log4j-core is like logback", and I like it that way.
On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
wrote:
> However, it is important to remember that SLF4J was created before Logback
> and was meant to be a new abstraction API. You can see that right here in
> the archives for this mailing list.
>
> OTOH, Log4j 2’s API was created so that “normal” users would be able to
> know what was safe to code against and what wasn’t. Log4j 1 had lots of
> problems because users were coding against pretty much all the components
> and expecting them to remain compatible.
>
> In the end, the result is similar. You can use either API and bind with
> another implementation, however binding with the “targeted” backend is
> still more efficient.
>
> Ralph
>
> On Feb 29, 2016, at 8:27 AM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Because some people think that log4j-api isn't analogous to slf4j-api
> where log4j-core is like logback. It's a naming confusion I'd guess.
>
> On 29 February 2016 at 03:38, Mikael Ståldal <mi...@magine.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Why is it important to point out that Log4j 2 has API / impl separation?
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 10:33 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Not on that site. The issue he is bringing up was discusses a few years
>>> ago either on one of our lists.
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:24 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is that worth pointing out?
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, that is understandable. He has been working on this stuff a long
>>>> time. And I know he wasn’t happy about the documentation issue, even though
>>>> all that documentation derived from the log4j 1 manual.
>>>>
>>>> Ralph
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, seems a little strong a reply. He sure has a lot of emotion
>>>> attached to the issue!
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Ralph Goers <
>>>> ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that!
>>>>>
>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712
>>>>>
>>>>> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an
>>>>> API too?
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>> <gg...@apache.org>
>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>> <gg...@apache.org>
>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> [image: MagineTV]
>>
>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>> Senior software developer
>>
>> *Magine TV*
>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com
>> <http://www.magine.com/>
>>
>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may
>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
>> email.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
>
>
>
--
[image: MagineTV]
*Mikael Ståldal*
Senior software developer
*Magine TV*
mikael.staldal@magine.com
Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com
Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
(or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not
copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
email.
Re: Education
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
However, it is important to remember that SLF4J was created before Logback and was meant to be a new abstraction API. You can see that right here in the archives for this mailing list.
OTOH, Log4j 2’s API was created so that “normal” users would be able to know what was safe to code against and what wasn’t. Log4j 1 had lots of problems because users were coding against pretty much all the components and expecting them to remain compatible.
In the end, the result is similar. You can use either API and bind with another implementation, however binding with the “targeted” backend is still more efficient.
Ralph
> On Feb 29, 2016, at 8:27 AM, Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Because some people think that log4j-api isn't analogous to slf4j-api where log4j-core is like logback. It's a naming confusion I'd guess.
>
> On 29 February 2016 at 03:38, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.staldal@magine.com <ma...@magine.com>> wrote:
> Why is it important to point out that Log4j 2 has API / impl separation?
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 10:33 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com <ma...@dslextreme.com>> wrote:
> Not on that site. The issue he is bringing up was discusses a few years ago either on one of our lists.
>
> Ralph
>
>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:24 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Is that worth pointing out?
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com <ma...@dslextreme.com>> wrote:
>> Well, that is understandable. He has been working on this stuff a long time. And I know he wasn’t happy about the documentation issue, even though all that documentation derived from the log4j 1 manual.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, seems a little strong a reply. He sure has a lot of emotion attached to the issue!
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com <ma...@dslextreme.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that!
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712 <https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712>
>>>> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an API too?
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com> | ggregory@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com <http://garygregory.wordpress.com/>
>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ <http://garygregory.com/>
>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory <http://twitter.com/GaryGregory>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com> | ggregory@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com <http://garygregory.wordpress.com/>
>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ <http://garygregory.com/>
>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory <http://twitter.com/GaryGregory>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Mikael Ståldal
> Senior software developer
>
> Magine TV
> mikael.staldal@magine.com <ma...@magine.com>
> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com <http://www.magine.com/>
>
> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email.
>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>>
Re: Education
Posted by Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>.
Because some people think that log4j-api isn't analogous to slf4j-api where
log4j-core is like logback. It's a naming confusion I'd guess.
On 29 February 2016 at 03:38, Mikael Ståldal <mi...@magine.com>
wrote:
> Why is it important to point out that Log4j 2 has API / impl separation?
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 10:33 PM, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Not on that site. The issue he is bringing up was discusses a few years
>> ago either on one of our lists.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:24 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Is that worth pointing out?
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, that is understandable. He has been working on this stuff a long
>>> time. And I know he wasn’t happy about the documentation issue, even though
>>> all that documentation derived from the log4j 1 manual.
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, seems a little strong a reply. He sure has a lot of emotion
>>> attached to the issue!
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Ralph Goers <
>>> ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that!
>>>>
>>>> Ralph
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712
>>>>
>>>> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an API
>>>> too?
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> [image: MagineTV]
>
> *Mikael Ståldal*
> Senior software developer
>
> *Magine TV*
> mikael.staldal@magine.com
> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com
>
> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not
> copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
> email.
>
--
Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
Re: Education
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
On Feb 29, 2016 1:38 AM, "Mikael Ståldal" <mi...@magine.com> wrote:
>
> Why is it important to point out that Log4j 2 has API / impl separation?
Because folks think of this as a major selling point for SLF4J which Log4j
1 does not have.
Gary
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 10:33 PM, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Not on that site. The issue he is bringing up was discusses a few years
ago either on one of our lists.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:24 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>> Is that worth pointing out?
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well, that is understandable. He has been working on this stuff a long
time. And I know he wasn’t happy about the documentation issue, even though
all that documentation derived from the log4j 1 manual.
>>>>
>>>> Ralph
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, seems a little strong a reply. He sure has a lot of emotion
attached to the issue!
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Ralph Goers <
ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an
API too?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>>>> Spring Batch in Action
>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition
>>> Spring Batch in Action
>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Mikael Ståldal
> Senior software developer
>
> Magine TV
> mikael.staldal@magine.com
> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com
>
> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
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Re: Education
Posted by Mikael Ståldal <mi...@magine.com>.
Why is it important to point out that Log4j 2 has API / impl separation?
On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 10:33 PM, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
wrote:
> Not on that site. The issue he is bringing up was discusses a few years
> ago either on one of our lists.
>
> Ralph
>
> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:24 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Is that worth pointing out?
>
> Gary
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Well, that is understandable. He has been working on this stuff a long
>> time. And I know he wasn’t happy about the documentation issue, even though
>> all that documentation derived from the log4j 1 manual.
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, seems a little strong a reply. He sure has a lot of emotion
>> attached to the issue!
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that!
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712
>>>
>>> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an API
>>> too?
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
>> Home: http://garygregory.com/
>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>
>
>
--
[image: MagineTV]
*Mikael Ståldal*
Senior software developer
*Magine TV*
mikael.staldal@magine.com
Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com
Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
(or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not
copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
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Re: Education
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
Not on that site. The issue he is bringing up was discusses a few years ago either on one of our lists.
Ralph
> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:24 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Is that worth pointing out?
>
> Gary
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com <ma...@dslextreme.com>> wrote:
> Well, that is understandable. He has been working on this stuff a long time. And I know he wasn’t happy about the documentation issue, even though all that documentation derived from the log4j 1 manual.
>
> Ralph
>
>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, seems a little strong a reply. He sure has a lot of emotion attached to the issue!
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com <ma...@dslextreme.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that!
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712 <https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712>
>>> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an API too?
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com> | ggregory@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com <http://garygregory.wordpress.com/>
>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ <http://garygregory.com/>
>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory <http://twitter.com/GaryGregory>
>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com> | ggregory@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com <http://garygregory.wordpress.com/>
> Home: http://garygregory.com/ <http://garygregory.com/>
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory <http://twitter.com/GaryGregory>
Re: Education
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
Is that worth pointing out?
Gary
On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
wrote:
> Well, that is understandable. He has been working on this stuff a long
> time. And I know he wasn’t happy about the documentation issue, even though
> all that documentation derived from the log4j 1 manual.
>
> Ralph
>
> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yeah, seems a little strong a reply. He sure has a lot of emotion attached
> to the issue!
>
> Gary
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that!
>>
>> Ralph
>>
>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712
>>
>> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an API
>> too?
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
> Home: http://garygregory.com/
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
>
>
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
Re: Education
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
Well, that is understandable. He has been working on this stuff a long time. And I know he wasn’t happy about the documentation issue, even though all that documentation derived from the log4j 1 manual.
Ralph
> On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yeah, seems a little strong a reply. He sure has a lot of emotion attached to the issue!
>
> Gary
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com <ma...@dslextreme.com>> wrote:
>
> Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that!
>
> Ralph
>
>> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712 <https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712>
>> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an API too?
>>
>> Gary
>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com> | ggregory@apache.org <ma...@apache.org>
> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com <http://garygregory.wordpress.com/>
> Home: http://garygregory.com/ <http://garygregory.com/>
> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory <http://twitter.com/GaryGregory>
Re: Education
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
Yeah, seems a little strong a reply. He sure has a lot of emotion attached
to the issue!
Gary
On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
wrote:
>
> Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that!
>
> Ralph
>
> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712
>
> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an API
> too?
>
> Gary
>
>
>
--
E-Mail: garydgregory@gmail.com | ggregory@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition
<http://www.manning.com/bauer3/>
JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/>
Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/>
Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com
Home: http://garygregory.com/
Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
Re: Education
Posted by Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>.
Yikes.
On 26 February 2016 at 14:13, Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>
wrote:
>
> Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that!
>
> Ralph
>
> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712
>
> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an API
> too?
>
> Gary
>
>
>
--
Matt Sicker <bo...@gmail.com>
Re: Education
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
Wow. Ceki sure took offense to that!
Ralph
> On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712 <https://github.com/swagger-api/swagger-parser/issues/209#issuecomment-189377712>
> What can we do to educate and publicize the fact that Log4j 2 is an API too?
>
> Gary
>