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Posted to users@spamassassin.apache.org by AJ Weber <aw...@comcast.net> on 2012/01/05 01:40:04 UTC
razor2 and cloudmark?
I am testing the Razor2 plugin and am surprised that some "obvious" spam is
getting through. The reason I'm most surprised is that the SA install
(3.3.1) seems to be checking the message with Razor2 and passing it.
However, I have "Cloudmark Desktop One" running on my PC, and when the
message gets to my PC, that client flags it as spam immediately.
Can someone tell me the relationship between Razor2 and Cloudmark? It
appears to be somewhat supported by the same people. So is the Razor data
purposely not refreshed as often in order to sell Cloudmark Authority
licenses?
I was sort of thinking it all used the same reference-db, but maybe not.
(If they DO, then I have some follow-on questions about how to debug why the
Razor2 plugin is not flagging a message that Cloudmark One is flagging only
milliseconds later.)
Thanks for any info on the above and any troubleshooting techniques that you
can share.
-AJ
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Re: razor2 and cloudmark?
Posted by AJ Weber <aw...@comcast.net>.
OK, fair-enough, and your theory seems very valid. I wish they (Cloudmark)
made a SA plugin for us SOHO users that can't afford (and don't need) a full
Cloudmark Authority server/setup. I'd pay a license fee if it were
reasonable and it performed anywhere near as accurately as their windows
desktop product.
Guess I'll go add-in DCC as well (Pyzor already also included).
Thanks for the response.
-AJ
Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
>
> On 1/5/2012 8:49 AM, AJ Weber wrote:
>> Yes, I still have other rules enabled. I have found the Cloudmark
>> product to
>> be extremely accurate, and really my question is specific to whether
>> "razor
>> == cloudmark" or to what extent they are related and how, so I can better
>> understand the results I'm seeing.
> From my perspective, Cloudmark is an overall anti-spam solution whereas
> Razor is a single score in the anti-spam framework.
>
> Cloudmark likely uses their "/Cloudmark Collaborative Security Network/"
> which is what Razor queries as well. However, for Cloudmark, the CCSN
> query is just one part of their framework for testing messages if I had
> to make a slightly educated guess.
>
> The first step is getting SA's framework built. Then you start looking
> at tweaking and adding things that improve the framework. Cloudmark has
> likely done this for you so comparing Cloudmark to Razor is apples to
> oranges. A framework can't be compared to one test.
>
> There are lots of things that can use the framework of SA from
> content-based heuristic tests to pathway analysis via DNSBLs to even
> things like OCR checks on images.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Regards,
> KAM
>
>
>
>
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Re: razor2 and cloudmark?
Posted by "Kevin A. McGrail" <KM...@PCCC.com>.
On 1/5/2012 8:49 AM, AJ Weber wrote:
> Yes, I still have other rules enabled. I have found the Cloudmark product to
> be extremely accurate, and really my question is specific to whether "razor
> == cloudmark" or to what extent they are related and how, so I can better
> understand the results I'm seeing.
From my perspective, Cloudmark is an overall anti-spam solution whereas
Razor is a single score in the anti-spam framework.
Cloudmark likely uses their "/Cloudmark Collaborative Security Network/"
which is what Razor queries as well. However, for Cloudmark, the CCSN
query is just one part of their framework for testing messages if I had
to make a slightly educated guess.
The first step is getting SA's framework built. Then you start looking
at tweaking and adding things that improve the framework. Cloudmark has
likely done this for you so comparing Cloudmark to Razor is apples to
oranges. A framework can't be compared to one test.
There are lots of things that can use the framework of SA from
content-based heuristic tests to pathway analysis via DNSBLs to even
things like OCR checks on images.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
KAM
Re: razor2 and cloudmark?
Posted by AJ Weber <aw...@comcast.net>.
Yes, I still have other rules enabled. I have found the Cloudmark product to
be extremely accurate, and really my question is specific to whether "razor
== cloudmark" or to what extent they are related and how, so I can better
understand the results I'm seeing.
Thanks for the reply,
AJ
Martin Hepworth-2 wrote:
>
> Of course razor2 checks only provide part of the score to SA , have you
> checked the other rules fired on that email and the nothing else is
> marking
> the score down?
>
> Martin
>
> On Thursday, 5 January 2012, AJ Weber <aw...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> I am testing the Razor2 plugin and am surprised that some "obvious" spam
> is
>> getting through. The reason I'm most surprised is that the SA install
>> (3.3.1) seems to be checking the message with Razor2 and passing it.
>> However, I have "Cloudmark Desktop One" running on my PC, and when the
>> message gets to my PC, that client flags it as spam immediately.
>>
>> Can someone tell me the relationship between Razor2 and Cloudmark? It
>> appears to be somewhat supported by the same people. So is the Razor
>> data
>> purposely not refreshed as often in order to sell Cloudmark Authority
>> licenses?
>>
>> I was sort of thinking it all used the same reference-db, but maybe not.
>> (If they DO, then I have some follow-on questions about how to debug why
> the
>> Razor2 plugin is not flagging a message that Cloudmark One is flagging
> only
>> milliseconds later.)
>>
>> Thanks for any info on the above and any troubleshooting techniques that
> you
>> can share.
>>
>> -AJ
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
> http://old.nabble.com/razor2-and-cloudmark--tp33082922p33082922.html
>> Sent from the SpamAssassin - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>
> --
> --
> Martin Hepworth
> Oxford, UK
>
>
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Re: razor2 and cloudmark?
Posted by Martin Hepworth <ma...@gmail.com>.
Of course razor2 checks only provide part of the score to SA , have you
checked the other rules fired on that email and the nothing else is marking
the score down?
Martin
On Thursday, 5 January 2012, AJ Weber <aw...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I am testing the Razor2 plugin and am surprised that some "obvious" spam
is
> getting through. The reason I'm most surprised is that the SA install
> (3.3.1) seems to be checking the message with Razor2 and passing it.
> However, I have "Cloudmark Desktop One" running on my PC, and when the
> message gets to my PC, that client flags it as spam immediately.
>
> Can someone tell me the relationship between Razor2 and Cloudmark? It
> appears to be somewhat supported by the same people. So is the Razor data
> purposely not refreshed as often in order to sell Cloudmark Authority
> licenses?
>
> I was sort of thinking it all used the same reference-db, but maybe not.
> (If they DO, then I have some follow-on questions about how to debug why
the
> Razor2 plugin is not flagging a message that Cloudmark One is flagging
only
> milliseconds later.)
>
> Thanks for any info on the above and any troubleshooting techniques that
you
> can share.
>
> -AJ
>
> --
> View this message in context:
http://old.nabble.com/razor2-and-cloudmark--tp33082922p33082922.html
> Sent from the SpamAssassin - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
--
--
Martin Hepworth
Oxford, UK