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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by sebgoa <ru...@gmail.com> on 2015/12/19 10:12:14 UTC
[DISCUSS] Move to Github
Hi folks,
Apologies for a week end email couple days before christmas, but this needs to get out.
Late October I started thread [1] about moving our repo to GitHub, I would like to re-open this discussion.
Now that we have stabilized master and release 4.6.0, 4.6.1, 4.6.2 and 4.7.0 we need to think about the next steps.
To me Git and GitHub has become an essential tool to any software development, not using it to its full potential is hurting us.
Just as an example I would like to point you to [2], this a PR I made to Kubernetes (a container orchestrator), it literally added 14 characters in a json file.
This was really a very minor change.
The PR automatically triggered 3 bots which created 7 labels, it ran end to end testss, Jenkins jobs and triggered third part builds.
It was automatically merged.
This is just an example of things that we could build with proper access to Github.
Currently we don't have that access and we don't have the privileges to do what we should be doing in terms of CI.
There are on-going discussion at the board level of the ASF to see if a project purely hosted on GitHub could be an ASF project.
The biggest issue there is independence to vendor tools (yes github is a vendor) and provenance of the commits.
The ASF committership and release process guarantees that the source of commits and hence the history of the code is well known at all times.
Bottom line:
I would like us to use Github and hence I would like us to request to the ASF infra and board that CloudStack be allowed to move to GitHub.
For this to happen of course, we need a consensus decision.
Thanks and merry christmas,
[1] http://markmail.org/thread/inwfcsbqlqmfddhh
[2] https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/pull/18823
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>.
On 12/19/2015 10:12 AM, sebgoa wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> Apologies for a week end email couple days before christmas, but this needs to get out.
>
> Late October I started thread [1] about moving our repo to GitHub, I would like to re-open this discussion.
>
> Now that we have stabilized master and release 4.6.0, 4.6.1, 4.6.2 and 4.7.0 we need to think about the next steps.
>
> To me Git and GitHub has become an essential tool to any software development, not using it to its full potential is hurting us.
>
Indeed. Last time I didn't think this through properly and since than I
changed my mind.
If we move everything, including Wiki and Issues to Github it would be
much easier. We gain control over everything we want/need and can
improve stability and quality of the code by hooking all the CI we need.
> Just as an example I would like to point you to [2], this a PR I made to Kubernetes (a container orchestrator), it literally added 14 characters in a json file.
> This was really a very minor change.
>
> The PR automatically triggered 3 bots which created 7 labels, it ran end to end testss, Jenkins jobs and triggered third part builds.
> It was automatically merged.
>
Just awesome!
> This is just an example of things that we could build with proper access to Github.
>
> Currently we don't have that access and we don't have the privileges to do what we should be doing in terms of CI.
>
> There are on-going discussion at the board level of the ASF to see if a project purely hosted on GitHub could be an ASF project.
> The biggest issue there is independence to vendor tools (yes github is a vendor) and provenance of the commits.
> The ASF committership and release process guarantees that the source of commits and hence the history of the code is well known at all times.
>
We can always mirror from Github to ASF, that way the code also lives in
ASF.
We might even start signing our commits using git gpg? That way we
always know who the commit came from :)
Bottom line: Yes! Please, let us move to Github. It will also take away
work from Infra. They are busy enough.
Wido
> Bottom line:
>
> I would like us to use Github and hence I would like us to request to the ASF infra and board that CloudStack be allowed to move to GitHub.
> For this to happen of course, we need a consensus decision.
>
> Thanks and merry christmas,
>
>
> [1] http://markmail.org/thread/inwfcsbqlqmfddhh
> [2] https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/pull/18823
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Remi Bergsma <RB...@schubergphilis.com>.
Hi Rene,
We’re at the stage that running the integration tests is a one-liner and 7 hour wait [1]. It’s running a subset [2] of available Marvin tests.
The problem is that Marvin is slow and sometimes flaky (error found, rerun is fine). So the test results need manual review before you can publish them. This alone is a lot of work.
The biggest issue is that there is no community hardware that can run this and there is no way to hook tests into Github either (unless we get full access).
About LGTM, I usually want one based on the integration tests and one based on code review.
Regards,
Remi
[1] https://github.com/schubergphilis/MCT-shared/blob/master/helper_scripts/cloudstack/check-pr.sh
[2] https://github.com/schubergphilis/MCT-shared/blob/master/helper_scripts/cloudstack/run_marvin_router_tests.sh
On 19/12/15 23:11, "Rene Moser" <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
>
>
>On 12/19/2015 07:57 PM, Remi Bergsma wrote:
>
>> I disagree with testing based on complexity. You simply cannot know the implications upfront, as that is why you run the tests. What seems small, can break it all.
>>
>> Example:
>> This commit seems an easy_fix, right? Just a findbugs issue resolved.
>> https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/commit/6a4927f660f776bcbd12ae45f4e63ae2c2e96774
>
>Ok, definition of easy is for _me_: fixing a typo in a debug log output,
>adding license headers, fixing a comment. adding documentation.
>
>So we just have minor and major, fine for me. But would you run
>integration tests for adding missing license header?
>
>> It was just merged indeed, exactly as you propose. But it did cause a major outage. And I don’t even use HyperV.
>> Details: https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/761
>>
>> This is why all PRs to 4.6 and 4.7 (200+) that we merged over the last couple of months were tested against a real cloud. No easy fixes and minor changes. We always need to run the full integration tests.
>
>This would be the best case (and good job btw!) but for how long can you
>made it without automation? We need automated tests, and if possible
>full blown automated integration testing. I agree.
>
>> When new functionality is proposed, there aren’t many people willing to write unit and integration tests to cover it. Until that changes, testing can only guard whatever the tests cover. And when we merge new stuff without tests, the total coverage goes down making the tests less relevant. In fact, when we resolve a bug we should write a tests along with it. I know of one guy that does that on a regular basis.
>
>It is ~2016. No excuse. I know we can not test everything, we are
>dealing with hardware. But I would rather say, "merge it, it covers
>tests and they passed" then "merge it, it has 2 LGTM".
>
>> It’s not so simple as it seems unfortunately.
>
>It has never been simple, and I didn't say so, but it should be our goal
>to get there. Right?
>
>Regards
>René
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net>.
On 12/19/2015 07:57 PM, Remi Bergsma wrote:
> I disagree with testing based on complexity. You simply cannot know the implications upfront, as that is why you run the tests. What seems small, can break it all.
>
> Example:
> This commit seems an easy_fix, right? Just a findbugs issue resolved.
> https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/commit/6a4927f660f776bcbd12ae45f4e63ae2c2e96774
Ok, definition of easy is for _me_: fixing a typo in a debug log output,
adding license headers, fixing a comment. adding documentation.
So we just have minor and major, fine for me. But would you run
integration tests for adding missing license header?
> It was just merged indeed, exactly as you propose. But it did cause a major outage. And I don’t even use HyperV.
> Details: https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/761
>
> This is why all PRs to 4.6 and 4.7 (200+) that we merged over the last couple of months were tested against a real cloud. No easy fixes and minor changes. We always need to run the full integration tests.
This would be the best case (and good job btw!) but for how long can you
made it without automation? We need automated tests, and if possible
full blown automated integration testing. I agree.
> When new functionality is proposed, there aren’t many people willing to write unit and integration tests to cover it. Until that changes, testing can only guard whatever the tests cover. And when we merge new stuff without tests, the total coverage goes down making the tests less relevant. In fact, when we resolve a bug we should write a tests along with it. I know of one guy that does that on a regular basis.
It is ~2016. No excuse. I know we can not test everything, we are
dealing with hardware. But I would rather say, "merge it, it covers
tests and they passed" then "merge it, it has 2 LGTM".
> It’s not so simple as it seems unfortunately.
It has never been simple, and I didn't say so, but it should be our goal
to get there. Right?
Regards
René
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Remi Bergsma <RB...@schubergphilis.com>.
+1 If moving to Github means we can use all features without restrictions: labels, issues, editing and merging PRs, wiki, integrations, hooks etc etc.
@René,
I disagree with testing based on complexity. You simply cannot know the implications upfront, as that is why you run the tests. What seems small, can break it all.
Example:
This commit seems an easy_fix, right? Just a findbugs issue resolved.
https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/commit/6a4927f660f776bcbd12ae45f4e63ae2c2e96774
It was just merged indeed, exactly as you propose. But it did cause a major outage. And I don’t even use HyperV.
Details: https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/761
This is why all PRs to 4.6 and 4.7 (200+) that we merged over the last couple of months were tested against a real cloud. No easy fixes and minor changes. We always need to run the full integration tests.
When new functionality is proposed, there aren’t many people willing to write unit and integration tests to cover it. Until that changes, testing can only guard whatever the tests cover. And when we merge new stuff without tests, the total coverage goes down making the tests less relevant. In fact, when we resolve a bug we should write a tests along with it. I know of one guy that does that on a regular basis.
It’s not so simple as it seems unfortunately.
Regards,
Remi
>
>Rating complexity of changes: easy_fix, minor_change, major_change
>
>Running tests according complexity:
>
>- easy_fix: just merge it.
>- minor_change: unit and simulator test passed
>- major_change: the full blown integration testing
>
>IMHO we should work on solid testing and development is fun, merging a
>click and releasing a breath.
>
>Just my 2 cents.
>
>Regards
>René
>
>
>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Erik Weber <te...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 5:35 AM, John Burwell <jo...@shapeblue.com>
wrote:
> All,
> [snip]
> 2. Attachments: A vital part of resolving issues are screenshots and logs.
> While people can gist or imgur this information, it is cumbersome. Many of
> these systems also purge information after some period of time — removing
> important information from long lived, unresolved ticket and/or reducing
> their historical value. I don’t know about others, but I search through
> ticket history a few times a week to understand the history of issues and
> when they have been fixed. I often look at the attachments to determine
> whether or not the issue I am debugging matches the ticket.
>
Just a FYI, GitHub issues does support attachments. It is probably not as
elegant as in other solutions, but it is there.
--
Erik
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by John Burwell <jo...@shapeblue.com>.
All,
I am +1 to make Github the “repo of record” for the record. I believe it has been suggested to keep a secondary, read-only mirror of the repo on ASF which seems like a prudent, low effort backup.
Personally, I think both Confluence and Github are fairly poor wiki implementations. Therefore, I am +0 on moving the wiki to Github so long as we can maintain the content that has already been created. While some of the content in the existing wiki is a bit out of date, I think it would be a mistake to “throw the baby out with the bathwater”. So long as moving the wiki to Github doesn’t mean starting over, it makes little difference to me if it is Confluence or Github.
I am no fan of JIRA. I think it is clunky, bloated, and overly complicated — particularly in its default configuration. It also requires additional registration and approval for users to interact with the project which I deeply dislike. However, as much as I dislike JIRA, my experience with Github issues has been worse. Where JIRA attempts to do too much, Github issues simply can’t do many things. In particular, we need the following features in a ticketing system which are not currently provided by Github Issues:
1. Private Tickets: We must have an avenue for security researchers, developers, and users to responsibly inform the project about security issues and track resolution. This process is necessarily confined to the reporter and security team until a resolution is found.
2. Attachments: A vital part of resolving issues are screenshots and logs. While people can gist or imgur this information, it is cumbersome. Many of these systems also purge information after some period of time — removing important information from long lived, unresolved ticket and/or reducing their historical value. I don’t know about others, but I search through ticket history a few times a week to understand the history of issues and when they have been fixed. I often look at the attachments to determine whether or not the issue I am debugging matches the ticket.
3. History Import: While less important than the previous two items, a single source to comprehend history is very useful. Our current JIRA is a rich corpus of project’s previous problems and their resolutions. Splitting that corpus across two repositories would be a step backwards in my mind.
I would imagine there are additional gaps between JIRA and Github Issues functionality as Github Issues is an extremely simplistic ticking system. For these reasons, I am -1 on moving to Github Issues.
Thanks,
-John
>
[ShapeBlue]<http://www.shapeblue.com>
John Burwell
ShapeBlue
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On Jan 3, 2016, at 2:12 PM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:28 PM, humbedooh@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2016-01-03 12:25, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Bringing this one discuss thread to the top of the ML to get stronger consensus.
>>>
>>> We need it if we want to request a move to GitHub.
>>>
>>> Note that this is not about leaving the ASF, it is about using GitHub to its full potential.
>>>
>>> The ASF board is investigating ways for a project to use Github and still maintain strong provenance of commits to keep the high quality and provenance standards of ASF code.
>>>
>>> If we get consensus we can request to the board to be part of the “trial†and move to Github.
>>
>> Sorry to burst any bubbles here, but there is no trial you can join at the moment.
>> We are, as always, exploring new ways of having people collaborate and contribute, but at present, there are no opt-in trials for GitHub.
>>
>> What the future holds remains to be seen, but for now...sorry, but nope.
>> If/when such an option becomes available, we will of course notify the various projects about this opportunity.
>>
>
> ok thanks for the clarification.
>
> However let’s keep the DISCUSS going so we know what we want. With that in hand we will have a thread to point the board to if we want to make a request.
>
>> With regards,
>> Daniel on behalf of Infrastructure.
>>
>>>
>>>> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:37 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sebastien, This will create a github repo under the apache organisation
>>>>> right? one that we can not merge to.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes , that’s how I created all the docs repo and the repos for ec2stack and gstack.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone can ask for a new git repo which will be mirrored on github at:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/create/8
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not sure if the link will work, but it’s available through issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 19, 2015, at 7:03 PM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 19 Dec 2015, at 16:28, Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Seb
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 12/19/2015 10:12 AM, sebgoa wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Late October I started thread [1] about moving our repo to GitHub, I
>>>>>> would like to re-open this discussion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now that we have stabilized master and release 4.6.0, 4.6.1, 4.6.2 and
>>>>>> 4.7.0 we need to think about the next steps.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To me Git and GitHub has become an essential tool to any software
>>>>>> development, not using it to its full potential is hurting us.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just as an example I would like to point you to [2], this a PR I made
>>>>>> to Kubernetes (a container orchestrator), it literally added 14 characters
>>>>>> in a json file.
>>>>>>>>> This was really a very minor change.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The PR automatically triggered 3 bots which created 7 labels, it ran
>>>>>> end to end testss, Jenkins jobs and triggered third part builds.
>>>>>>>>> It was automatically merged.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am fine moving to github.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But IMHO the git hosting is not the problem, the problem is how far do
>>>>>>>> we trust the current tests and how we can them improve.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Moving to github doesn't improve testing. Doing manual tests is okay and
>>>>>>>> hard work, it does not speed up things.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We need fully automated unit _and_ integration tests that we trust. I do
>>>>>>>> not trust in mocking and simulating infrastructure.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We discovered most of the major problems running cloudstack on real
>>>>>>>> hardware in real world scenarios. Race conditions, unexpected VR
>>>>>>>> reboots, VMs not getting IPs from DHCP, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rating complexity of changes: easy_fix, minor_change, major_change
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Running tests according complexity:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - easy_fix: just merge it.
>>>>>>>> - minor_change: unit and simulator test passed
>>>>>>>> - major_change: the full blown integration testing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMHO we should work on solid testing and development is fun, merging a
>>>>>>>> click and releasing a breath.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just my 2 cents.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fully agree
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do think moving to github would allow us to run tests on real systems
>>>>>> more easily.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> René
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Daan
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ------
>> Sent via Pony Mail for dev@cloudstack.apache.org.
>> View this email online at:
>> https://pony-poc.apache.org/list.html?dev@cloudstack.apache.org
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
> On Jan 3, 2016, at 4:28 PM, humbedooh@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> On 2016-01-03 12:25, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Bringing this one discuss thread to the top of the ML to get stronger consensus.
>>
>> We need it if we want to request a move to GitHub.
>>
>> Note that this is not about leaving the ASF, it is about using GitHub to its full potential.
>>
>> The ASF board is investigating ways for a project to use Github and still maintain strong provenance of commits to keep the high quality and provenance standards of ASF code.
>>
>> If we get consensus we can request to the board to be part of the âtrialâ and move to Github.
>
> Sorry to burst any bubbles here, but there is no trial you can join at the moment.
> We are, as always, exploring new ways of having people collaborate and contribute, but at present, there are no opt-in trials for GitHub.
>
> What the future holds remains to be seen, but for now...sorry, but nope.
> If/when such an option becomes available, we will of course notify the various projects about this opportunity.
>
ok thanks for the clarification.
However let’s keep the DISCUSS going so we know what we want. With that in hand we will have a thread to point the board to if we want to make a request.
> With regards,
> Daniel on behalf of Infrastructure.
>
>>
>>> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:37 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sebastien, This will create a github repo under the apache organisation
>>>> right? one that we can not merge to.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes , thatâs how I created all the docs repo and the repos for ec2stack and gstack.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> BTW
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone can ask for a new git repo which will be mirrored on github at:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/create/8
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure if the link will work, but itâs available through issues.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 19, 2015, at 7:03 PM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 19 Dec 2015, at 16:28, Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Seb
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/19/2015 10:12 AM, sebgoa wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Late October I started thread [1] about moving our repo to GitHub, I
>>>>> would like to re-open this discussion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now that we have stabilized master and release 4.6.0, 4.6.1, 4.6.2 and
>>>>> 4.7.0 we need to think about the next steps.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To me Git and GitHub has become an essential tool to any software
>>>>> development, not using it to its full potential is hurting us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just as an example I would like to point you to [2], this a PR I made
>>>>> to Kubernetes (a container orchestrator), it literally added 14 characters
>>>>> in a json file.
>>>>>>>> This was really a very minor change.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The PR automatically triggered 3 bots which created 7 labels, it ran
>>>>> end to end testss, Jenkins jobs and triggered third part builds.
>>>>>>>> It was automatically merged.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am fine moving to github.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But IMHO the git hosting is not the problem, the problem is how far do
>>>>>>> we trust the current tests and how we can them improve.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Moving to github doesn't improve testing. Doing manual tests is okay and
>>>>>>> hard work, it does not speed up things.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We need fully automated unit _and_ integration tests that we trust. I do
>>>>>>> not trust in mocking and simulating infrastructure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We discovered most of the major problems running cloudstack on real
>>>>>>> hardware in real world scenarios. Race conditions, unexpected VR
>>>>>>> reboots, VMs not getting IPs from DHCP, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rating complexity of changes: easy_fix, minor_change, major_change
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Running tests according complexity:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - easy_fix: just merge it.
>>>>>>> - minor_change: unit and simulator test passed
>>>>>>> - major_change: the full blown integration testing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMHO we should work on solid testing and development is fun, merging a
>>>>>>> click and releasing a breath.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just my 2 cents.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fully agree
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do think moving to github would allow us to run tests on real systems
>>>>> more easily.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>> René
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Daan
>>>
>>
>>
> ------
> Sent via Pony Mail for dev@cloudstack.apache.org.
> View this email online at:
> https://pony-poc.apache.org/list.html?dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by "humbedooh@gmail.com" <hu...@gmail.com>.
On 2016-01-03 12:25, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bringing this one discuss thread to the top of the ML to get stronger consensus.
>
> We need it if we want to request a move to GitHub.
>
> Note that this is not about leaving the ASF, it is about using GitHub to its full potential.
>
> The ASF board is investigating ways for a project to use Github and still maintain strong provenance of commits to keep the high quality and provenance standards of ASF code.
>
> If we get consensus we can request to the board to be part of the âtrialâ and move to Github.
Sorry to burst any bubbles here, but there is no trial you can join at the moment.
We are, as always, exploring new ways of having people collaborate and contribute, but at present, there are no opt-in trials for GitHub.
What the future holds remains to be seen, but for now...sorry, but nope.
If/when such an option becomes available, we will of course notify the various projects about this opportunity.
With regards,
Daniel on behalf of Infrastructure.
>
> > On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:37 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Sebastien, This will create a github repo under the apache organisation
> >> right? one that we can not merge to.
> >>
> >
> > Yes , thatâs how I created all the docs repo and the repos for ec2stack and gstack.
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> BTW
> >>>
> >>> Anyone can ask for a new git repo which will be mirrored on github at:
> >>>
> >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/create/8
> >>>
> >>> Not sure if the link will work, but itâs available through issues.
> >>>
> >>>> On Dec 19, 2015, at 7:03 PM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 19 Dec 2015, at 16:28, Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Seb
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 12/19/2015 10:12 AM, sebgoa wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Late October I started thread [1] about moving our repo to GitHub, I
> >>> would like to re-open this discussion.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Now that we have stabilized master and release 4.6.0, 4.6.1, 4.6.2 and
> >>> 4.7.0 we need to think about the next steps.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To me Git and GitHub has become an essential tool to any software
> >>> development, not using it to its full potential is hurting us.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Just as an example I would like to point you to [2], this a PR I made
> >>> to Kubernetes (a container orchestrator), it literally added 14 characters
> >>> in a json file.
> >>>>>> This was really a very minor change.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The PR automatically triggered 3 bots which created 7 labels, it ran
> >>> end to end testss, Jenkins jobs and triggered third part builds.
> >>>>>> It was automatically merged.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am fine moving to github.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But IMHO the git hosting is not the problem, the problem is how far do
> >>>>> we trust the current tests and how we can them improve.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Moving to github doesn't improve testing. Doing manual tests is okay and
> >>>>> hard work, it does not speed up things.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We need fully automated unit _and_ integration tests that we trust. I do
> >>>>> not trust in mocking and simulating infrastructure.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We discovered most of the major problems running cloudstack on real
> >>>>> hardware in real world scenarios. Race conditions, unexpected VR
> >>>>> reboots, VMs not getting IPs from DHCP, etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Rating complexity of changes: easy_fix, minor_change, major_change
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Running tests according complexity:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - easy_fix: just merge it.
> >>>>> - minor_change: unit and simulator test passed
> >>>>> - major_change: the full blown integration testing
> >>>>>
> >>>>> IMHO we should work on solid testing and development is fun, merging a
> >>>>> click and releasing a breath.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just my 2 cents.
> >>>>
> >>>> Fully agree
> >>>>
> >>>> I do think moving to github would allow us to run tests on real systems
> >>> more easily.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards
> >>>>> René
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Daan
> >
>
>
------
Sent via Pony Mail for dev@cloudstack.apache.org.
View this email online at:
https://pony-poc.apache.org/list.html?dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com>.
Ok, nice to see we have in the open what possible problems are. That said
and as we are, my experience as RM leads me to say we should move sooner
rather then later. explenation of my not always 100% clear communication
methods: :+1:!!!
On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 12:43 PM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> > On Jan 11, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11-01-16 10:56, sebgoa wrote:
> >>
> >> On Jan 11, 2016, at 10:51 AM, Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Sebastien
> >>>
> >>> On 01/11/2016 09:53 AM, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
> >>>> Part 3:
> >>>> ————
> >>>>
> >>>> To me the main issue for us is that our current privileges on GitHub
> prevent us from building more productive CI workflow and makes the life of
> the RM more difficult (cannot use labels, cannot use issues, cannot
> configured triggers/hooks etc). ...
> >>>
> >>> Out of curiosity, it seems the main problem is that we are using the
> >>> apache account of github.
> >>
> >> indeed
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Why don't we create an own one?
> >>>
> >>> e.g. github.com/cloudstackdev
> >>>
> >>
> >> we do have github.com/cloudstack already
> >>
> >>> --> PR merge on github.com/cloudstackdev
> >>> --> hook to jenkins job pushing it to git http://git.apache.org
> >>> --> will be mirrored to https://github.com/apache/cloudstack
> >>>
> >>> Did I miss anything why this would not be possible?
> >>>
> >>
> >> this is exactly what "moving to github" would mean.
> >>
> >> if we agree to do this, we then need to work with infra and the board
> to make sure everything is ok in terms of provenance and that it does not
> "break" our ASF "commitment"
> >>
> >
> > We can always change the bylaws and make GPG keys for commits mandatory?
> > That way we can always prove who made the commit.
>
> I have tested this and participated in a test with another ASF member,
> apparently the board did not think that was enough.
>
> >
> >>> The only thing would be that we can not push to http://git.apache.org
> >>> directly anymore.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> René
>
>
--
Daan
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
> On Jan 11, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 11-01-16 10:56, sebgoa wrote:
>>
>> On Jan 11, 2016, at 10:51 AM, Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Sebastien
>>>
>>> On 01/11/2016 09:53 AM, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
>>>> Part 3:
>>>> ————
>>>>
>>>> To me the main issue for us is that our current privileges on GitHub prevent us from building more productive CI workflow and makes the life of the RM more difficult (cannot use labels, cannot use issues, cannot configured triggers/hooks etc). ...
>>>
>>> Out of curiosity, it seems the main problem is that we are using the
>>> apache account of github.
>>
>> indeed
>>
>>>
>>> Why don't we create an own one?
>>>
>>> e.g. github.com/cloudstackdev
>>>
>>
>> we do have github.com/cloudstack already
>>
>>> --> PR merge on github.com/cloudstackdev
>>> --> hook to jenkins job pushing it to git http://git.apache.org
>>> --> will be mirrored to https://github.com/apache/cloudstack
>>>
>>> Did I miss anything why this would not be possible?
>>>
>>
>> this is exactly what "moving to github" would mean.
>>
>> if we agree to do this, we then need to work with infra and the board to make sure everything is ok in terms of provenance and that it does not "break" our ASF "commitment"
>>
>
> We can always change the bylaws and make GPG keys for commits mandatory?
> That way we can always prove who made the commit.
I have tested this and participated in a test with another ASF member, apparently the board did not think that was enough.
>
>>> The only thing would be that we can not push to http://git.apache.org
>>> directly anymore.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> René
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>.
On 11-01-16 10:56, sebgoa wrote:
>
> On Jan 11, 2016, at 10:51 AM, Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Sebastien
>>
>> On 01/11/2016 09:53 AM, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
>>> Part 3:
>>> ————
>>>
>>> To me the main issue for us is that our current privileges on GitHub prevent us from building more productive CI workflow and makes the life of the RM more difficult (cannot use labels, cannot use issues, cannot configured triggers/hooks etc). ...
>>
>> Out of curiosity, it seems the main problem is that we are using the
>> apache account of github.
>
> indeed
>
>>
>> Why don't we create an own one?
>>
>> e.g. github.com/cloudstackdev
>>
>
> we do have github.com/cloudstack already
>
>> --> PR merge on github.com/cloudstackdev
>> --> hook to jenkins job pushing it to git http://git.apache.org
>> --> will be mirrored to https://github.com/apache/cloudstack
>>
>> Did I miss anything why this would not be possible?
>>
>
> this is exactly what "moving to github" would mean.
>
> if we agree to do this, we then need to work with infra and the board to make sure everything is ok in terms of provenance and that it does not "break" our ASF "commitment"
>
We can always change the bylaws and make GPG keys for commits mandatory?
That way we can always prove who made the commit.
>> The only thing would be that we can not push to http://git.apache.org
>> directly anymore.
>>
>> Regards
>> René
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net>.
On 01/11/2016 10:56 AM, sebgoa wrote:
> this is exactly what "moving to github" would mean.
> if we agree to do this, we then need to work with infra and the board to make sure everything is ok in terms of provenance and that it does not "break" our ASF "commitment"
I see. Thanks for info.
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by sebgoa <ru...@gmail.com>.
On Jan 11, 2016, at 10:51 AM, Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
> Hi Sebastien
>
> On 01/11/2016 09:53 AM, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
>> Part 3:
>> ————
>>
>> To me the main issue for us is that our current privileges on GitHub prevent us from building more productive CI workflow and makes the life of the RM more difficult (cannot use labels, cannot use issues, cannot configured triggers/hooks etc). ...
>
> Out of curiosity, it seems the main problem is that we are using the
> apache account of github.
indeed
>
> Why don't we create an own one?
>
> e.g. github.com/cloudstackdev
>
we do have github.com/cloudstack already
> --> PR merge on github.com/cloudstackdev
> --> hook to jenkins job pushing it to git http://git.apache.org
> --> will be mirrored to https://github.com/apache/cloudstack
>
> Did I miss anything why this would not be possible?
>
this is exactly what "moving to github" would mean.
if we agree to do this, we then need to work with infra and the board to make sure everything is ok in terms of provenance and that it does not "break" our ASF "commitment"
> The only thing would be that we can not push to http://git.apache.org
> directly anymore.
>
> Regards
> René
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net>.
Hi Sebastien
On 01/11/2016 09:53 AM, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
> Part 3:
> ————
>
> To me the main issue for us is that our current privileges on GitHub prevent us from building more productive CI workflow and makes the life of the RM more difficult (cannot use labels, cannot use issues, cannot configured triggers/hooks etc). ...
Out of curiosity, it seems the main problem is that we are using the
apache account of github.
Why don't we create an own one?
e.g. github.com/cloudstackdev
--> PR merge on github.com/cloudstackdev
--> hook to jenkins job pushing it to git http://git.apache.org
--> will be mirrored to https://github.com/apache/cloudstack
Did I miss anything why this would not be possible?
The only thing would be that we can not push to http://git.apache.org
directly anymore.
Regards
René
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
> On Jan 10, 2016, at 12:50 PM, Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> people, what we are saying by moving to github, completely is that, for
> now, we will be moving away from apache. Apache can not take responsibility
> for any code that is not under it's control.
Daan, thanks for jumping right in.
Part 1:
--------
As VP I started this thread and clearly I am *not* advocating leaving Apache.
- They are other Apache projects asking to host their repo on github with full access to github features. We are not alone.
- There is an experiment going on with the Apache Whimsy project to see how being hosted on GitHub could be accomplished and still fulfill requirements of the ASF. The board is aware of these demands and is trying to get data to see how this could be done.
- What I am looking for in this discussion, is to get a consensus in our community on whether we would like to make this move or not.
Leave aside the problems. Imagine an ASF project can still be an ASF project even if hosted on GitHub. Would we do this ?
Part 2 :
———
There are indeed issues with such a move, but I think the lines are more blurry than we think.
1-ASF projects already used proprietary software (hosted or not hosted on ASF infra, think JIRA, Hipchat, Slack)
2- Moving to GitHub would require all committers to get accounts on GitHub, so we would be forcing folks to get registered with a third party hosted service.
That said we already do this, since this is our commit workflow.
3- ASF would loose control on push logs (this is the main pain point for the board, as far as I can tell). This means that if there was any problems/inquiry from lawyers about who made which commits (provenance of the code), ASF may not have the info required.
4- The line is blurry, until couple years ago, ASF did not keep all push logs -even for svn-, so inquiries mentioned in 3- would not be able to be answered anyway (this is my understanding, this may not be 100% accurate)
5- ASF seems to keep some logs on IP addresses of commits, a potential privacy law issue, especially in the EU.
6- Git commits can be PGP signed, so committers could commit with their ASF PGP keys, I don’t see what better source of provenance you could find.
Part 3:
————
To me the main issue for us is that our current privileges on GitHub prevent us from building more productive CI workflow and makes the life of the RM more difficult (cannot use labels, cannot use issues, cannot configured triggers/hooks etc). We want things to be easy and should work on removing barriers to productivity. That’s the reason I am advocating that we make such a move.
Indeed
> This is fine, but to satisfy
> the foundation policy, maintaining an *Apache* CloudStack we would have to
> have a process in place for contributing back to the foundation. We have
> been moving at an unmaintainable pace the last few month so change has to
> happen.
>
> Please let's discuss this carefully and with tempered down emotions. I am
> about +e -π for going to github and would just not know what move to github
> entails off the top of my head. One nice challenge is see is creating a 32G
> docker containing a cs and two hosts that can be spun up and run a set of
> integrations tests on a PR-trigger. Perfectly doable. Any volunteers? It
> can be started outside of the move to github because it can be triggere as
> we speak from any ci implementation.
>
>
> But this is not the only one. Let's define as much as possible small
> improvements and implement them. These will help us whether we move to
> github or not.
>
> regards,
> Daan
>
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 3:25 AM, chunfeng tian <ti...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> +1 to moving to github.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 6:17 PM, ilya <il...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> +1 to moving to github.
>>>
>>> On 1/3/16 3:25 AM, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
>>>> Bringing this one discuss thread to the top of the ML to get stronger
>>> consensus.
>>>>
>>>> We need it if we want to request a move to GitHub.
>>>>
>>>> Note that this is not about leaving the ASF, it is about using GitHub
>> to
>>> its full potential.
>>>>
>>>> The ASF board is investigating ways for a project to use Github and
>>> still maintain strong provenance of commits to keep the high quality and
>>> provenance standards of ASF code.
>>>>
>>>> If we get consensus we can request to the board to be part of the
>>> “trial” and move to Github.
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:37 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Daan Hoogland <daan.hoogland@gmail.com
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sebastien, This will create a github repo under the apache
>> organisation
>>>>>> right? one that we can not merge to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes , that’s how I created all the docs repo and the repos for
>> ec2stack
>>> and gstack.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <
>> runseb@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone can ask for a new git repo which will be mirrored on github
>> at:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/create/8
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure if the link will work, but it’s available through issues.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Dec 19, 2015, at 7:03 PM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 19 Dec 2015, at 16:28, Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Seb
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/19/2015 10:12 AM, sebgoa wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Late October I started thread [1] about moving our repo to
>> GitHub,
>>> I
>>>>>>> would like to re-open this discussion.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now that we have stabilized master and release 4.6.0, 4.6.1,
>> 4.6.2
>>> and
>>>>>>> 4.7.0 we need to think about the next steps.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To me Git and GitHub has become an essential tool to any software
>>>>>>> development, not using it to its full potential is hurting us.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just as an example I would like to point you to [2], this a PR I
>>> made
>>>>>>> to Kubernetes (a container orchestrator), it literally added 14
>>> characters
>>>>>>> in a json file.
>>>>>>>>>> This was really a very minor change.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The PR automatically triggered 3 bots which created 7 labels, it
>>> ran
>>>>>>> end to end testss, Jenkins jobs and triggered third part builds.
>>>>>>>>>> It was automatically merged.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am fine moving to github.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But IMHO the git hosting is not the problem, the problem is how
>> far
>>> do
>>>>>>>>> we trust the current tests and how we can them improve.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Moving to github doesn't improve testing. Doing manual tests is
>>> okay and
>>>>>>>>> hard work, it does not speed up things.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We need fully automated unit _and_ integration tests that we
>> trust.
>>> I do
>>>>>>>>> not trust in mocking and simulating infrastructure.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We discovered most of the major problems running cloudstack on
>> real
>>>>>>>>> hardware in real world scenarios. Race conditions, unexpected VR
>>>>>>>>> reboots, VMs not getting IPs from DHCP, etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Rating complexity of changes: easy_fix, minor_change, major_change
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Running tests according complexity:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - easy_fix: just merge it.
>>>>>>>>> - minor_change: unit and simulator test passed
>>>>>>>>> - major_change: the full blown integration testing
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IMHO we should work on solid testing and development is fun,
>>> merging a
>>>>>>>>> click and releasing a breath.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just my 2 cents.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fully agree
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do think moving to github would allow us to run tests on real
>>> systems
>>>>>>> more easily.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>> René
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Daan
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tian ChunFeng
>> http://cloud.domolo.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Daan
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com>.
people, what we are saying by moving to github, completely is that, for
now, we will be moving away from apache. Apache can not take responsibility
for any code that is not under it's control. This is fine, but to satisfy
the foundation policy, maintaining an *Apache* CloudStack we would have to
have a process in place for contributing back to the foundation. We have
been moving at an unmaintainable pace the last few month so change has to
happen.
Please let's discuss this carefully and with tempered down emotions. I am
about +e -π for going to github and would just not know what move to github
entails off the top of my head. One nice challenge is see is creating a 32G
docker containing a cs and two hosts that can be spun up and run a set of
integrations tests on a PR-trigger. Perfectly doable. Any volunteers? It
can be started outside of the move to github because it can be triggere as
we speak from any ci implementation.
But this is not the only one. Let's define as much as possible small
improvements and implement them. These will help us whether we move to
github or not.
regards,
Daan
On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 3:25 AM, chunfeng tian <ti...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> +1 to moving to github.
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 6:17 PM, ilya <il...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > +1 to moving to github.
> >
> > On 1/3/16 3:25 AM, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
> > > Bringing this one discuss thread to the top of the ML to get stronger
> > consensus.
> > >
> > > We need it if we want to request a move to GitHub.
> > >
> > > Note that this is not about leaving the ASF, it is about using GitHub
> to
> > its full potential.
> > >
> > > The ASF board is investigating ways for a project to use Github and
> > still maintain strong provenance of commits to keep the high quality and
> > provenance standards of ASF code.
> > >
> > > If we get consensus we can request to the board to be part of the
> > “trial” and move to Github.
> > >
> > >> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:37 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Daan Hoogland <daan.hoogland@gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Sebastien, This will create a github repo under the apache
> organisation
> > >>> right? one that we can not merge to.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Yes , that’s how I created all the docs repo and the repos for
> ec2stack
> > and gstack.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <
> runseb@gmail.com
> > >
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> BTW
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Anyone can ask for a new git repo which will be mirrored on github
> at:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/create/8
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Not sure if the link will work, but it’s available through issues.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Dec 19, 2015, at 7:03 PM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On 19 Dec 2015, at 16:28, Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hi Seb
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On 12/19/2015 10:12 AM, sebgoa wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Late October I started thread [1] about moving our repo to
> GitHub,
> > I
> > >>>> would like to re-open this discussion.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Now that we have stabilized master and release 4.6.0, 4.6.1,
> 4.6.2
> > and
> > >>>> 4.7.0 we need to think about the next steps.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> To me Git and GitHub has become an essential tool to any software
> > >>>> development, not using it to its full potential is hurting us.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Just as an example I would like to point you to [2], this a PR I
> > made
> > >>>> to Kubernetes (a container orchestrator), it literally added 14
> > characters
> > >>>> in a json file.
> > >>>>>>> This was really a very minor change.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> The PR automatically triggered 3 bots which created 7 labels, it
> > ran
> > >>>> end to end testss, Jenkins jobs and triggered third part builds.
> > >>>>>>> It was automatically merged.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I am fine moving to github.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> But IMHO the git hosting is not the problem, the problem is how
> far
> > do
> > >>>>>> we trust the current tests and how we can them improve.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Moving to github doesn't improve testing. Doing manual tests is
> > okay and
> > >>>>>> hard work, it does not speed up things.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> We need fully automated unit _and_ integration tests that we
> trust.
> > I do
> > >>>>>> not trust in mocking and simulating infrastructure.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> We discovered most of the major problems running cloudstack on
> real
> > >>>>>> hardware in real world scenarios. Race conditions, unexpected VR
> > >>>>>> reboots, VMs not getting IPs from DHCP, etc.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Rating complexity of changes: easy_fix, minor_change, major_change
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Running tests according complexity:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> - easy_fix: just merge it.
> > >>>>>> - minor_change: unit and simulator test passed
> > >>>>>> - major_change: the full blown integration testing
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> IMHO we should work on solid testing and development is fun,
> > merging a
> > >>>>>> click and releasing a breath.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Just my 2 cents.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Fully agree
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I do think moving to github would allow us to run tests on real
> > systems
> > >>>> more easily.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Regards
> > >>>>>> René
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Daan
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Tian ChunFeng
> http://cloud.domolo.com
>
--
Daan
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by chunfeng tian <ti...@gmail.com>.
+1 to moving to github.
On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 6:17 PM, ilya <il...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 to moving to github.
>
> On 1/3/16 3:25 AM, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
> > Bringing this one discuss thread to the top of the ML to get stronger
> consensus.
> >
> > We need it if we want to request a move to GitHub.
> >
> > Note that this is not about leaving the ASF, it is about using GitHub to
> its full potential.
> >
> > The ASF board is investigating ways for a project to use Github and
> still maintain strong provenance of commits to keep the high quality and
> provenance standards of ASF code.
> >
> > If we get consensus we can request to the board to be part of the
> “trial” and move to Github.
> >
> >> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:37 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Sebastien, This will create a github repo under the apache organisation
> >>> right? one that we can not merge to.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yes , that’s how I created all the docs repo and the repos for ec2stack
> and gstack.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <runseb@gmail.com
> >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> BTW
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyone can ask for a new git repo which will be mirrored on github at:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/create/8
> >>>>
> >>>> Not sure if the link will work, but it’s available through issues.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Dec 19, 2015, at 7:03 PM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 19 Dec 2015, at 16:28, Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Seb
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 12/19/2015 10:12 AM, sebgoa wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Late October I started thread [1] about moving our repo to GitHub,
> I
> >>>> would like to re-open this discussion.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Now that we have stabilized master and release 4.6.0, 4.6.1, 4.6.2
> and
> >>>> 4.7.0 we need to think about the next steps.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> To me Git and GitHub has become an essential tool to any software
> >>>> development, not using it to its full potential is hurting us.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Just as an example I would like to point you to [2], this a PR I
> made
> >>>> to Kubernetes (a container orchestrator), it literally added 14
> characters
> >>>> in a json file.
> >>>>>>> This was really a very minor change.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The PR automatically triggered 3 bots which created 7 labels, it
> ran
> >>>> end to end testss, Jenkins jobs and triggered third part builds.
> >>>>>>> It was automatically merged.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am fine moving to github.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But IMHO the git hosting is not the problem, the problem is how far
> do
> >>>>>> we trust the current tests and how we can them improve.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Moving to github doesn't improve testing. Doing manual tests is
> okay and
> >>>>>> hard work, it does not speed up things.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We need fully automated unit _and_ integration tests that we trust.
> I do
> >>>>>> not trust in mocking and simulating infrastructure.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We discovered most of the major problems running cloudstack on real
> >>>>>> hardware in real world scenarios. Race conditions, unexpected VR
> >>>>>> reboots, VMs not getting IPs from DHCP, etc.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Rating complexity of changes: easy_fix, minor_change, major_change
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Running tests according complexity:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - easy_fix: just merge it.
> >>>>>> - minor_change: unit and simulator test passed
> >>>>>> - major_change: the full blown integration testing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> IMHO we should work on solid testing and development is fun,
> merging a
> >>>>>> click and releasing a breath.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Just my 2 cents.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Fully agree
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I do think moving to github would allow us to run tests on real
> systems
> >>>> more easily.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>> René
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Daan
> >>
> >
>
--
Tian ChunFeng
http://cloud.domolo.com
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by ilya <il...@gmail.com>.
+1 to moving to github.
On 1/3/16 3:25 AM, Sebastien Goasguen wrote:
> Bringing this one discuss thread to the top of the ML to get stronger consensus.
>
> We need it if we want to request a move to GitHub.
>
> Note that this is not about leaving the ASF, it is about using GitHub to its full potential.
>
> The ASF board is investigating ways for a project to use Github and still maintain strong provenance of commits to keep the high quality and provenance standards of ASF code.
>
> If we get consensus we can request to the board to be part of the “trial” and move to Github.
>
>> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:37 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Sebastien, This will create a github repo under the apache organisation
>>> right? one that we can not merge to.
>>>
>>
>> Yes , that’s how I created all the docs repo and the repos for ec2stack and gstack.
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> BTW
>>>>
>>>> Anyone can ask for a new git repo which will be mirrored on github at:
>>>>
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/create/8
>>>>
>>>> Not sure if the link will work, but it’s available through issues.
>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 19, 2015, at 7:03 PM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19 Dec 2015, at 16:28, Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Seb
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/19/2015 10:12 AM, sebgoa wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Late October I started thread [1] about moving our repo to GitHub, I
>>>> would like to re-open this discussion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now that we have stabilized master and release 4.6.0, 4.6.1, 4.6.2 and
>>>> 4.7.0 we need to think about the next steps.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To me Git and GitHub has become an essential tool to any software
>>>> development, not using it to its full potential is hurting us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just as an example I would like to point you to [2], this a PR I made
>>>> to Kubernetes (a container orchestrator), it literally added 14 characters
>>>> in a json file.
>>>>>>> This was really a very minor change.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The PR automatically triggered 3 bots which created 7 labels, it ran
>>>> end to end testss, Jenkins jobs and triggered third part builds.
>>>>>>> It was automatically merged.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am fine moving to github.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But IMHO the git hosting is not the problem, the problem is how far do
>>>>>> we trust the current tests and how we can them improve.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Moving to github doesn't improve testing. Doing manual tests is okay and
>>>>>> hard work, it does not speed up things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need fully automated unit _and_ integration tests that we trust. I do
>>>>>> not trust in mocking and simulating infrastructure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We discovered most of the major problems running cloudstack on real
>>>>>> hardware in real world scenarios. Race conditions, unexpected VR
>>>>>> reboots, VMs not getting IPs from DHCP, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rating complexity of changes: easy_fix, minor_change, major_change
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Running tests according complexity:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - easy_fix: just merge it.
>>>>>> - minor_change: unit and simulator test passed
>>>>>> - major_change: the full blown integration testing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMHO we should work on solid testing and development is fun, merging a
>>>>>> click and releasing a breath.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my 2 cents.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fully agree
>>>>>
>>>>> I do think moving to github would allow us to run tests on real systems
>>>> more easily.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> René
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Daan
>>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
Bringing this one discuss thread to the top of the ML to get stronger consensus.
We need it if we want to request a move to GitHub.
Note that this is not about leaving the ASF, it is about using GitHub to its full potential.
The ASF board is investigating ways for a project to use Github and still maintain strong provenance of commits to keep the high quality and provenance standards of ASF code.
If we get consensus we can request to the board to be part of the “trial” and move to Github.
> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:37 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Sebastien, This will create a github repo under the apache organisation
>> right? one that we can not merge to.
>>
>
> Yes , that’s how I created all the docs repo and the repos for ec2stack and gstack.
>
>
>
>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> BTW
>>>
>>> Anyone can ask for a new git repo which will be mirrored on github at:
>>>
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/create/8
>>>
>>> Not sure if the link will work, but it’s available through issues.
>>>
>>>> On Dec 19, 2015, at 7:03 PM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 19 Dec 2015, at 16:28, Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Seb
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/19/2015 10:12 AM, sebgoa wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Late October I started thread [1] about moving our repo to GitHub, I
>>> would like to re-open this discussion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now that we have stabilized master and release 4.6.0, 4.6.1, 4.6.2 and
>>> 4.7.0 we need to think about the next steps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To me Git and GitHub has become an essential tool to any software
>>> development, not using it to its full potential is hurting us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just as an example I would like to point you to [2], this a PR I made
>>> to Kubernetes (a container orchestrator), it literally added 14 characters
>>> in a json file.
>>>>>> This was really a very minor change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The PR automatically triggered 3 bots which created 7 labels, it ran
>>> end to end testss, Jenkins jobs and triggered third part builds.
>>>>>> It was automatically merged.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am fine moving to github.
>>>>>
>>>>> But IMHO the git hosting is not the problem, the problem is how far do
>>>>> we trust the current tests and how we can them improve.
>>>>>
>>>>> Moving to github doesn't improve testing. Doing manual tests is okay and
>>>>> hard work, it does not speed up things.
>>>>>
>>>>> We need fully automated unit _and_ integration tests that we trust. I do
>>>>> not trust in mocking and simulating infrastructure.
>>>>>
>>>>> We discovered most of the major problems running cloudstack on real
>>>>> hardware in real world scenarios. Race conditions, unexpected VR
>>>>> reboots, VMs not getting IPs from DHCP, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rating complexity of changes: easy_fix, minor_change, major_change
>>>>>
>>>>> Running tests according complexity:
>>>>>
>>>>> - easy_fix: just merge it.
>>>>> - minor_change: unit and simulator test passed
>>>>> - major_change: the full blown integration testing
>>>>>
>>>>> IMHO we should work on solid testing and development is fun, merging a
>>>>> click and releasing a breath.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just my 2 cents.
>>>>
>>>> Fully agree
>>>>
>>>> I do think moving to github would allow us to run tests on real systems
>>> more easily.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> René
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Daan
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
> On Dec 21, 2015, at 11:34 AM, Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sebastien, This will create a github repo under the apache organisation
> right? one that we can not merge to.
>
Yes , that’s how I created all the docs repo and the repos for ec2stack and gstack.
> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> BTW
>>
>> Anyone can ask for a new git repo which will be mirrored on github at:
>>
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/create/8
>>
>> Not sure if the link will work, but it’s available through issues.
>>
>>> On Dec 19, 2015, at 7:03 PM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 19 Dec 2015, at 16:28, Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Seb
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/19/2015 10:12 AM, sebgoa wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Late October I started thread [1] about moving our repo to GitHub, I
>> would like to re-open this discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now that we have stabilized master and release 4.6.0, 4.6.1, 4.6.2 and
>> 4.7.0 we need to think about the next steps.
>>>>>
>>>>> To me Git and GitHub has become an essential tool to any software
>> development, not using it to its full potential is hurting us.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just as an example I would like to point you to [2], this a PR I made
>> to Kubernetes (a container orchestrator), it literally added 14 characters
>> in a json file.
>>>>> This was really a very minor change.
>>>>>
>>>>> The PR automatically triggered 3 bots which created 7 labels, it ran
>> end to end testss, Jenkins jobs and triggered third part builds.
>>>>> It was automatically merged.
>>>>
>>>> I am fine moving to github.
>>>>
>>>> But IMHO the git hosting is not the problem, the problem is how far do
>>>> we trust the current tests and how we can them improve.
>>>>
>>>> Moving to github doesn't improve testing. Doing manual tests is okay and
>>>> hard work, it does not speed up things.
>>>>
>>>> We need fully automated unit _and_ integration tests that we trust. I do
>>>> not trust in mocking and simulating infrastructure.
>>>>
>>>> We discovered most of the major problems running cloudstack on real
>>>> hardware in real world scenarios. Race conditions, unexpected VR
>>>> reboots, VMs not getting IPs from DHCP, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Rating complexity of changes: easy_fix, minor_change, major_change
>>>>
>>>> Running tests according complexity:
>>>>
>>>> - easy_fix: just merge it.
>>>> - minor_change: unit and simulator test passed
>>>> - major_change: the full blown integration testing
>>>>
>>>> IMHO we should work on solid testing and development is fun, merging a
>>>> click and releasing a breath.
>>>>
>>>> Just my 2 cents.
>>>
>>> Fully agree
>>>
>>> I do think moving to github would allow us to run tests on real systems
>> more easily.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> René
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Daan
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com>.
Sebastien, This will create a github repo under the apache organisation
right? one that we can not merge to.
On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> BTW
>
> Anyone can ask for a new git repo which will be mirrored on github at:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/create/8
>
> Not sure if the link will work, but it’s available through issues.
>
> > On Dec 19, 2015, at 7:03 PM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 19 Dec 2015, at 16:28, Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Seb
> >>
> >>> On 12/19/2015 10:12 AM, sebgoa wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Late October I started thread [1] about moving our repo to GitHub, I
> would like to re-open this discussion.
> >>>
> >>> Now that we have stabilized master and release 4.6.0, 4.6.1, 4.6.2 and
> 4.7.0 we need to think about the next steps.
> >>>
> >>> To me Git and GitHub has become an essential tool to any software
> development, not using it to its full potential is hurting us.
> >>>
> >>> Just as an example I would like to point you to [2], this a PR I made
> to Kubernetes (a container orchestrator), it literally added 14 characters
> in a json file.
> >>> This was really a very minor change.
> >>>
> >>> The PR automatically triggered 3 bots which created 7 labels, it ran
> end to end testss, Jenkins jobs and triggered third part builds.
> >>> It was automatically merged.
> >>
> >> I am fine moving to github.
> >>
> >> But IMHO the git hosting is not the problem, the problem is how far do
> >> we trust the current tests and how we can them improve.
> >>
> >> Moving to github doesn't improve testing. Doing manual tests is okay and
> >> hard work, it does not speed up things.
> >>
> >> We need fully automated unit _and_ integration tests that we trust. I do
> >> not trust in mocking and simulating infrastructure.
> >>
> >> We discovered most of the major problems running cloudstack on real
> >> hardware in real world scenarios. Race conditions, unexpected VR
> >> reboots, VMs not getting IPs from DHCP, etc.
> >>
> >> Rating complexity of changes: easy_fix, minor_change, major_change
> >>
> >> Running tests according complexity:
> >>
> >> - easy_fix: just merge it.
> >> - minor_change: unit and simulator test passed
> >> - major_change: the full blown integration testing
> >>
> >> IMHO we should work on solid testing and development is fun, merging a
> >> click and releasing a breath.
> >>
> >> Just my 2 cents.
> >
> > Fully agree
> >
> > I do think moving to github would allow us to run tests on real systems
> more easily.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> René
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
--
Daan
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
BTW
Anyone can ask for a new git repo which will be mirrored on github at:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/create/8
Not sure if the link will work, but it’s available through issues.
> On Dec 19, 2015, at 7:03 PM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 19 Dec 2015, at 16:28, Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Seb
>>
>>> On 12/19/2015 10:12 AM, sebgoa wrote:
>>>
>>> Late October I started thread [1] about moving our repo to GitHub, I would like to re-open this discussion.
>>>
>>> Now that we have stabilized master and release 4.6.0, 4.6.1, 4.6.2 and 4.7.0 we need to think about the next steps.
>>>
>>> To me Git and GitHub has become an essential tool to any software development, not using it to its full potential is hurting us.
>>>
>>> Just as an example I would like to point you to [2], this a PR I made to Kubernetes (a container orchestrator), it literally added 14 characters in a json file.
>>> This was really a very minor change.
>>>
>>> The PR automatically triggered 3 bots which created 7 labels, it ran end to end testss, Jenkins jobs and triggered third part builds.
>>> It was automatically merged.
>>
>> I am fine moving to github.
>>
>> But IMHO the git hosting is not the problem, the problem is how far do
>> we trust the current tests and how we can them improve.
>>
>> Moving to github doesn't improve testing. Doing manual tests is okay and
>> hard work, it does not speed up things.
>>
>> We need fully automated unit _and_ integration tests that we trust. I do
>> not trust in mocking and simulating infrastructure.
>>
>> We discovered most of the major problems running cloudstack on real
>> hardware in real world scenarios. Race conditions, unexpected VR
>> reboots, VMs not getting IPs from DHCP, etc.
>>
>> Rating complexity of changes: easy_fix, minor_change, major_change
>>
>> Running tests according complexity:
>>
>> - easy_fix: just merge it.
>> - minor_change: unit and simulator test passed
>> - major_change: the full blown integration testing
>>
>> IMHO we should work on solid testing and development is fun, merging a
>> click and releasing a breath.
>>
>> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Fully agree
>
> I do think moving to github would allow us to run tests on real systems more easily.
>
>
>>
>> Regards
>> René
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
> On 19 Dec 2015, at 16:28, Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Seb
>
>> On 12/19/2015 10:12 AM, sebgoa wrote:
>>
>> Late October I started thread [1] about moving our repo to GitHub, I would like to re-open this discussion.
>>
>> Now that we have stabilized master and release 4.6.0, 4.6.1, 4.6.2 and 4.7.0 we need to think about the next steps.
>>
>> To me Git and GitHub has become an essential tool to any software development, not using it to its full potential is hurting us.
>>
>> Just as an example I would like to point you to [2], this a PR I made to Kubernetes (a container orchestrator), it literally added 14 characters in a json file.
>> This was really a very minor change.
>>
>> The PR automatically triggered 3 bots which created 7 labels, it ran end to end testss, Jenkins jobs and triggered third part builds.
>> It was automatically merged.
>
> I am fine moving to github.
>
> But IMHO the git hosting is not the problem, the problem is how far do
> we trust the current tests and how we can them improve.
>
> Moving to github doesn't improve testing. Doing manual tests is okay and
> hard work, it does not speed up things.
>
> We need fully automated unit _and_ integration tests that we trust. I do
> not trust in mocking and simulating infrastructure.
>
> We discovered most of the major problems running cloudstack on real
> hardware in real world scenarios. Race conditions, unexpected VR
> reboots, VMs not getting IPs from DHCP, etc.
>
> Rating complexity of changes: easy_fix, minor_change, major_change
>
> Running tests according complexity:
>
> - easy_fix: just merge it.
> - minor_change: unit and simulator test passed
> - major_change: the full blown integration testing
>
> IMHO we should work on solid testing and development is fun, merging a
> click and releasing a breath.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
Fully agree
I do think moving to github would allow us to run tests on real systems more easily.
>
> Regards
> René
>
>
>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Rene Moser <ma...@renemoser.net>.
Hi Seb
On 12/19/2015 10:12 AM, sebgoa wrote:
> Late October I started thread [1] about moving our repo to GitHub, I would like to re-open this discussion.
>
> Now that we have stabilized master and release 4.6.0, 4.6.1, 4.6.2 and 4.7.0 we need to think about the next steps.
>
> To me Git and GitHub has become an essential tool to any software development, not using it to its full potential is hurting us.
>
> Just as an example I would like to point you to [2], this a PR I made to Kubernetes (a container orchestrator), it literally added 14 characters in a json file.
> This was really a very minor change.
>
> The PR automatically triggered 3 bots which created 7 labels, it ran end to end testss, Jenkins jobs and triggered third part builds.
> It was automatically merged.
I am fine moving to github.
But IMHO the git hosting is not the problem, the problem is how far do
we trust the current tests and how we can them improve.
Moving to github doesn't improve testing. Doing manual tests is okay and
hard work, it does not speed up things.
We need fully automated unit _and_ integration tests that we trust. I do
not trust in mocking and simulating infrastructure.
We discovered most of the major problems running cloudstack on real
hardware in real world scenarios. Race conditions, unexpected VR
reboots, VMs not getting IPs from DHCP, etc.
Rating complexity of changes: easy_fix, minor_change, major_change
Running tests according complexity:
- easy_fix: just merge it.
- minor_change: unit and simulator test passed
- major_change: the full blown integration testing
IMHO we should work on solid testing and development is fun, merging a
click and releasing a breath.
Just my 2 cents.
Regards
René
Re: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
Posted by Nux! <nu...@li.nux.ro>.
+1 to that, as long as we keep stuff properly mirrored in ASF and so on.
--
Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!
Nux!
www.nux.ro
----- Original Message -----
> From: "sebgoa" <ru...@gmail.com>
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Sent: Saturday, 19 December, 2015 09:12:14
> Subject: [DISCUSS] Move to Github
> Hi folks,
>
> Apologies for a week end email couple days before christmas, but this needs to
> get out.
>
> Late October I started thread [1] about moving our repo to GitHub, I would like
> to re-open this discussion.
>
> Now that we have stabilized master and release 4.6.0, 4.6.1, 4.6.2 and 4.7.0 we
> need to think about the next steps.
>
> To me Git and GitHub has become an essential tool to any software development,
> not using it to its full potential is hurting us.
>
> Just as an example I would like to point you to [2], this a PR I made to
> Kubernetes (a container orchestrator), it literally added 14 characters in a
> json file.
> This was really a very minor change.
>
> The PR automatically triggered 3 bots which created 7 labels, it ran end to end
> testss, Jenkins jobs and triggered third part builds.
> It was automatically merged.
>
> This is just an example of things that we could build with proper access to
> Github.
>
> Currently we don't have that access and we don't have the privileges to do what
> we should be doing in terms of CI.
>
> There are on-going discussion at the board level of the ASF to see if a project
> purely hosted on GitHub could be an ASF project.
> The biggest issue there is independence to vendor tools (yes github is a vendor)
> and provenance of the commits.
> The ASF committership and release process guarantees that the source of commits
> and hence the history of the code is well known at all times.
>
> Bottom line:
>
> I would like us to use Github and hence I would like us to request to the ASF
> infra and board that CloudStack be allowed to move to GitHub.
> For this to happen of course, we need a consensus decision.
>
> Thanks and merry christmas,
>
>
> [1] http://markmail.org/thread/inwfcsbqlqmfddhh
> [2] https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/pull/18823