You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> on 2006/07/27 10:14:11 UTC
Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
We currently have a maven 2 repository for maven 2 snapshot releases
of incubating projects...
http://people.apache.org/maven-snapshot-repository/
we also have a maven 1 repository for both incubating and
non-incubating projects
http://people.apache.org/repository/
and we have a maven2 repository for non-incubating projects
http://people.apache.org/repo/m2-ibiblio-rsync-repository/
Right now its hurting users of incubating projects not to have a maven
2 repository of the actual releases made by the projects.
I understand the current rules of the incubator forbid the use of the
apache mirrors for incubating projects. However could we have a maven
2 repository somewhere for the releases of incubating projects? Or
could we put the incubating projects's m2 releases in the current m2
repository (afterall the versions of the jars have 'incubator' in
their name to clearly mark them?
I'd be happy with either approach; the latter option is simpler as its
one less URL to remember (and I get confused enough as it is
remembering where all the maven repos are ;-) plus it minimises the
impact on users as projects graduate, not having to switch maven
repositories.
Thoughts?
--
James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
RE: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> could someone please remove the line in
> /www/people.apache.org/repo/m2-ibiblio-rsync-repository/README.txt
> saying
> - no artifacts are allowed from projects under incubation
Uh, no.
Which part of Incubation is not about making life easy for end users hasn't
sunk in for everyone?
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gu...@worldonline.fr>.
Then, could someone please remove the line in
/www/people.apache.org/repo/m2-ibiblio-rsync-repository/README.txt
saying
- no artifacts are allowed from projects under incubation
Thx,
Guillaume Nodet
Henri Yandell wrote:
> On 7/27/06, James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/28/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 7/27/06, James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > I understand the current rules of the incubator forbid the use of
>> the
>> > > apache mirrors for incubating projects.
>> >
>> > The maven repositories are no longer mirrored, so that rule is no
>> > longer applicable for releasing jars into the maven repository.
>>
>> So do you think its it OK to go ahead and put m2 releases of
>> incubating projects here then...
>>
>> http://people.apache.org/repo/m2-ibiblio-rsync-repository/
>>
>> Its a +1 from me at lesat
>
>
>> From the repository point of view - I don't see any reason why not. As
>
> long as they are defined releases (rather than snapshots), then they
> fit the rsync repo. +1
>
> Hen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>.
On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 11:09:03PM -0700, Jeremy Boynes wrote:
> Perhaps it would suffice to make it ASF policy that no official
> project should have a dependency on a incubating one (or such a
> dependency would be scoped as provided so that the user would have to
> explicitly include it).
That would be nice, wouldn't it? Unfortunately, that'd break loads and
loads of projects over in java-apache land. The ASF is full of snapshot
dependencies on itself (even custom-built-specific-SVN-branch-not
actually-released dependencies) and the like. In the end, PMCs have the
authority to decide on this all by themselves. It'd be great if we'd
endorse some good recommendations on this. Of course, the maven 2 book
has lots of them, most quite reasonable...Oh, and I'm giving a talk
at the next apachecon about the general case ;)
All the incubator can do is make it easy for other ASF projects (and the
rest of the world) to identify what releases have some sort of "incubation"
status and what that means.
LSD
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Jeremy Boynes <jb...@apache.org>.
On Jul 29, 2006, at 10:03 PM, Andrus Adamchik wrote:
> On Jul 30, 2006, at 12:41 AM, Craig McClanahan wrote:
>
>> There are (at least) two scenarios where I believe there is
>> legitimate cause
>> for concern with the way Maven does things:
>>
>> * You can declare a dependency on a particular groupId/artifactId
>> combination *without* specifying a version number. The meaning
>> is something along the lines of "take the latest version you know
>> about."
>> Thus, you could unknowingly be declaring a dependency on an
>> incubating project if "incubating" is only present in the version
>> number.
>> This can be alleviated by requiring that "incubating" be part of
>> the group
>> or artifact identifier, which I think would be a really good idea.
>
> AFAIK the version still has to be set explicitly in the parent POM.
> It certainly fails for me when I remove the version tag from the
> dependencies. Maven gurus please correct me if I'm wrong. (I think
> only Maven *plugin* versions can be omitted??)
That is my understanding as well. It does leave a loophole where
someone purely using a plugin may not be aware that the project is
incubating but I would expect that if they had reached the level of
using the plugin they would also be using other artifacts from the
project that would be clearly marked.
This would be avoided though if we placed the artifacts in a
different repository (as they would have to explicitly specify the
incubator pluginRepository).
>
>> * The harder problem is that Maven2 does transitive dependency
>> identification. If you declare an explicit dependency on module A,
>> which itself has a dependency on incubating module B, you're not
>> going to know that you are depending on incubating code unless
>> you are very careful about analyzing the entire set of POMs for all
>> your dependencies (or you generate the website and analyze the
>> dependency report that is produced there).
>
> That was the case that I described. My understanding is that the
> roots of the policy requiring to include a clear indication that
> the code is incubating is to alert the users of the differences
> between "Apache software" and "incubating Apache software".
AFAIK having a separate repository would not achieve this as the
repository definition would also be extracted from the first level
dependency's POM - in other words the transitive dependency would
automatically be downloaded from the incubator repository with no
action taken by the user.
> So my earlier point was that if Maven downloads a transitive
> dependency that is third or higher degree from the root, users
> either do not know that they got anything "Apache" at all (so no
> unintended misrepresentation of the incubating code takes place),
> of if they do - they will clearly see the "incubating" suffix in
> the Maven log or local repo directory name, or the jar file name,
> or any other number of ways. Therefore having "x.x-incubating" in
> the version number seems sufficient.
Perhaps it would suffice to make it ASF policy that no official
project should have a dependency on a incubating one (or such a
dependency would be scoped as provided so that the user would have to
explicitly include it). Outside the ASF we have very little control
over what people do with the artifacts, although we might ask them to
preserve the incubating status.
--
Jeremy
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
On Jul 30, 2006, at 12:41 AM, Craig McClanahan wrote:
> There are (at least) two scenarios where I believe there is
> legitimate cause
> for concern with the way Maven does things:
>
> * You can declare a dependency on a particular groupId/artifactId
> combination *without* specifying a version number. The meaning
> is something along the lines of "take the latest version you know
> about."
> Thus, you could unknowingly be declaring a dependency on an
> incubating project if "incubating" is only present in the version
> number.
> This can be alleviated by requiring that "incubating" be part of
> the group
> or artifact identifier, which I think would be a really good idea.
AFAIK the version still has to be set explicitly in the parent POM.
It certainly fails for me when I remove the version tag from the
dependencies. Maven gurus please correct me if I'm wrong. (I think
only Maven *plugin* versions can be omitted??)
> * The harder problem is that Maven2 does transitive dependency
> identification. If you declare an explicit dependency on module A,
> which itself has a dependency on incubating module B, you're not
> going to know that you are depending on incubating code unless
> you are very careful about analyzing the entire set of POMs for all
> your dependencies (or you generate the website and analyze the
> dependency report that is produced there).
That was the case that I described. My understanding is that the
roots of the policy requiring to include a clear indication that the
code is incubating is to alert the users of the differences between
"Apache software" and "incubating Apache software".
So my earlier point was that if Maven downloads a transitive
dependency that is third or higher degree from the root, users either
do not know that they got anything "Apache" at all (so no unintended
misrepresentation of the incubating code takes place), of if they do
- they will clearly see the "incubating" suffix in the Maven log or
local repo directory name, or the jar file name, or any other number
of ways. Therefore having "x.x-incubating" in the version number
seems sufficient.
Andrus
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Craig McClanahan <cr...@apache.org>.
On 7/29/06, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
>
> On Jul 29, 2006, at 7:12 PM, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> > AIUI, the concern raised by Noel was that Maven never indicates the
> > artifact version number. Therefore, even if it had 'incubating' in
> > there somewhere, it wouldn't matter as no one would know it was under
> > incubation.
>
> I guess I am with Jukka on that. From my limited Maven experience
> (correct me if I am wrong), Maven 2 is very explicit about versions.
> You have to specify it at least in the parent POM of the project:
>
> <dependency>
> <groupId>abc</groupId>
> <artifactId>xyz</artifactId>
> <version>1.0-incubating-SNAPSHOT</version>
> </dependency>
>
> The only case I can think of where you don't set an explicit version
> is when you get a dependency indirectly (as a dependency of another
> dependency). Still the files ("artifacts") you end up downloading as
> a result will have "incubating" in the file name, and the folder name
> of the local repository.
>
> In this later case if a user doesn't pay attention (s)he will not be
> aware that something was downloaded from Apache at all (incubating or
> otherwise); if (s)he does - "incubating" label is clearly visible.
There are (at least) two scenarios where I believe there is legitimate cause
for concern with the way Maven does things:
* You can declare a dependency on a particular groupId/artifactId
combination *without* specifying a version number. The meaning
is something along the lines of "take the latest version you know about."
Thus, you could unknowingly be declaring a dependency on an
incubating project if "incubating" is only present in the version number.
This can be alleviated by requiring that "incubating" be part of the group
or artifact identifier, which I think would be a really good idea.
* The harder problem is that Maven2 does transitive dependency
identification. If you declare an explicit dependency on module A,
which itself has a dependency on incubating module B, you're not
going to know that you are depending on incubating code unless
you are very careful about analyzing the entire set of POMs for all
your dependencies (or you generate the website and analyze the
dependency report that is produced there).
In short, direct dependencies can be addressed by an Incubator policy that
requires "incubating" in the group or artifact identifiers of Maven POMs.
The harder problem is indirect dependencies.
Craig McClanahan
Andrus
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
On Jul 29, 2006, at 7:12 PM, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> AIUI, the concern raised by Noel was that Maven never indicates the
> artifact version number. Therefore, even if it had 'incubating' in
> there somewhere, it wouldn't matter as no one would know it was under
> incubation.
I guess I am with Jukka on that. From my limited Maven experience
(correct me if I am wrong), Maven 2 is very explicit about versions.
You have to specify it at least in the parent POM of the project:
<dependency>
<groupId>abc</groupId>
<artifactId>xyz</artifactId>
<version>1.0-incubating-SNAPSHOT</version>
</dependency>
The only case I can think of where you don't set an explicit version
is when you get a dependency indirectly (as a dependency of another
dependency). Still the files ("artifacts") you end up downloading as
a result will have "incubating" in the file name, and the folder name
of the local repository.
In this later case if a user doesn't pay attention (s)he will not be
aware that something was downloaded from Apache at all (incubating or
otherwise); if (s)he does - "incubating" label is clearly visible.
Andrus
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On 7/28/06, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know the background of this policy, but to me it seems that
> including "incubating" (or something like that) in the artifact
> version number is much more visible to a user than the repository
> where the artifact resides.
AIUI, the concern raised by Noel was that Maven never indicates the
artifact version number. Therefore, even if it had 'incubating' in
there somewhere, it wouldn't matter as no one would know it was under
incubation.
The key component is that the usage of incubating artifacts must be
with the user's informed consent that they are downloading something
that is not officially an ASF project (i.e. that it is under
Incubation). -- justin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On 7/28/06, Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com> wrote:
> That is, the user must actively add a Maven repository URL
> that has 'incubator' or something similar in it to understand that
> they are downloading something that is not an official project. So, I
> don't believe we should allow any Incubating artifacts in any
> 'regular' Maven repository that the ASF has any control over.
I don't know the background of this policy, but to me it seems that
including "incubating" (or something like that) in the artifact
version number is much more visible to a user than the repository
where the artifact resides.
Usually a project that uses a non-standard repository address has the
address of that repository stored within the project configuration so
Maven will automatically download the required artifacts with no user
intervention. And after the artifact has once been downloaded, the
repository location is never used again, i.e. an incubating artifact
will look just like one downloaded from a standard repository.
On the other hand, if the incubation status is indicated in the
artifact name, it will remain visible in IDE project settings, runtime
classpaths, deployed webapps, etc.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
--
Yukatan - http://yukatan.fi/ - info@yukatan.fi
Software craftsmanship, JCR consulting, and Java development
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>.
On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 11:25:20AM -0700, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> On 7/27/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >From the repository point of view - I don't see any reason why not. As
> >long as they are defined releases (rather than snapshots), then they
> >fit the rsync repo. +1
>
> The point that I've heard from Noel in the past (not sure if he's busy
> traveling and not reading email) is that he wanted Maven repositories
> with Incubating projects to be completely separate from non-Incubating
> projects. That is, the user must actively add a Maven repository URL
> that has 'incubator' or something similar in it to understand that
> they are downloading something that is not an official project.
Aha. given maven's auto-download and dependency-resolving behaviour, this
makes sense. When they're seperate repos a user (lets say a build manager or
sysadmin or whatever the name for the role is) could put in place a
firewall or specially configured proxy server to restrict only to "apache
endorsed and final". But anyone who can do that can also put in place a rule
that blocks on any URL containing "incubat" :)
So I still don't care much either way, as long as its documented :)
LSD
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On 7/27/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From the repository point of view - I don't see any reason why not. As
> long as they are defined releases (rather than snapshots), then they
> fit the rsync repo. +1
The point that I've heard from Noel in the past (not sure if he's busy
traveling and not reading email) is that he wanted Maven repositories
with Incubating projects to be completely separate from non-Incubating
projects. That is, the user must actively add a Maven repository URL
that has 'incubator' or something similar in it to understand that
they are downloading something that is not an official project. So, I
don't believe we should allow any Incubating artifacts in any
'regular' Maven repository that the ASF has any control over. --
justin.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 7/27/06, James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/28/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 7/27/06, James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I understand the current rules of the incubator forbid the use of the
> > > apache mirrors for incubating projects.
> >
> > The maven repositories are no longer mirrored, so that rule is no
> > longer applicable for releasing jars into the maven repository.
>
> So do you think its it OK to go ahead and put m2 releases of
> incubating projects here then...
>
> http://people.apache.org/repo/m2-ibiblio-rsync-repository/
>
> Its a +1 from me at lesat
>From the repository point of view - I don't see any reason why not. As
long as they are defined releases (rather than snapshots), then they
fit the rsync repo. +1
Hen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com>.
On 7/28/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/27/06, James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I understand the current rules of the incubator forbid the use of the
> > apache mirrors for incubating projects.
>
> The maven repositories are no longer mirrored, so that rule is no
> longer applicable for releasing jars into the maven repository.
So do you think its it OK to go ahead and put m2 releases of
incubating projects here then...
http://people.apache.org/repo/m2-ibiblio-rsync-repository/
Its a +1 from me at lesat
--
James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 7/27/06, James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I understand the current rules of the incubator forbid the use of the
> apache mirrors for incubating projects.
The maven repositories are no longer mirrored, so that rule is no
longer applicable for releasing jars into the maven repository.
Hen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 7/27/06, James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/27/06, Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 7/27/06, James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I understand the current rules of the incubator forbid the use of the
> > > apache mirrors for incubating projects.
> >
> > Why do you think so? If, as you say, the artifact Id explicitly
> > contains the term "incubator", then I would think that that is
> > absolutely sufficient for letting people know that they are using
> > incubating software.
>
> I seem to remember the Incubator policy used to say something to the
> effect that incubatoring projects were not Apache projects yet so
> couldn't use the Apache mirror system.
+1
> I tried to find that in the
> current policy document but got the tantalising line...
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases
>
> "The Podling is not yet an Apache project, and it should thus always
> refer to the Incubator Project Resource usage Guidelines, that are as
> follows"
>
> and it then doesn't say anything about releases :)
>
> Anyone know where the "Incubator Project Resource usage Guidelines"
> are?
i suspect that they were never actually written :-/
i've been trying to tidy up the document but there's still a lot of
work to do. there's still a lof of cruft.
the general infrastructure practice is that unofficial distributions
should not be mirrored and that only full official releases should be
mirrored by default. the incubator does not allow full official
releases so the default should be a non-mirrored repository.
> FWIW there are usually incubating notices inside the jars too along
> with in the README.
+1
- robert
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com>.
On 7/27/06, Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/27/06, James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I understand the current rules of the incubator forbid the use of the
> > apache mirrors for incubating projects.
>
> Why do you think so? If, as you say, the artifact Id explicitly
> contains the term "incubator", then I would think that that is
> absolutely sufficient for letting people know that they are using
> incubating software.
I seem to remember the Incubator policy used to say something to the
effect that incubatoring projects were not Apache projects yet so
couldn't use the Apache mirror system. I tried to find that in the
current policy document but got the tantalising line...
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Releases
"The Podling is not yet an Apache project, and it should thus always
refer to the Incubator Project Resource usage Guidelines, that are as
follows"
and it then doesn't say anything about releases :)
Anyone know where the "Incubator Project Resource usage Guidelines"
are? Am wondering if the policy has changed and incubating projects
can now use the regular m2 repository - which appears to be this one I
think...
http://people.apache.org/repo/m2-ibiblio-rsync-repository/
> Additionally, one might add the incubator notice
> to the POM files.
FWIW there are usually incubating notices inside the jars too along
with in the README.
--
James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 7/27/06, James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I understand the current rules of the incubator forbid the use of the
> apache mirrors for incubating projects.
Why do you think so? If, as you say, the artifact Id explicitly
contains the term "incubator", then I would think that that is
absolutely sufficient for letting people know that they are using
incubating software. Additionally, one might add the incubator notice
to the POM files.
Jochen
--
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the
majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
(Mark Twain)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Continuum for incubator (was: Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?)
Posted by Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>.
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 10:02:07AM -0700, Matthias Wessendorf wrote:
> What I more like that a seperate maven1/2 repo is maybe a incubator
> continuum server.
> Currently Trinidad uses that MyFaces continuum server.
>
> What do you think?
Doesn't make sense to me. Where possible incubator shouldn't turn into
a "mini-apache". Before you know it we'd have infrastructure@incubator.apache.org
*g*. It should just be an apache-wide service. Go help the continuum guys make it
happen, I know people are working on it :)
LSD
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org>.
> > So we put this to the guideline?
> > incubator + mX (+ SNAPSHOT)
>
> I'd like to get another Maven "expert" in here on this, but I know I've
> seen "issues" with having a version that doesn't start with a number. Thus,
> something like:
>
> 0.1-incubator-m1-SNAPSHOT
> or
> 1.0-incubator-m1-SNAPSHOT
> or similar.
>
> Some of the maven "version matches", especiall in regards to pattern matching,
> kind of expect that form. I think the "better builds with maven 2" book
> describes the preferred pattern as something like:
> #.#[.#*][-qualifier][-#][-SNAPSHOT]
Ok, I have no problems with 0.1 or 1.0-incu... :)
thanks for the heads up!
> Anyway, yoko has gone with 1.0-incubating-M1-SNAPSHOT
>
>
> --
> J. Daniel Kulp
> Principal Engineer
> IONA
> P: 781-902-8727 C: 508-380-7194 F:781-902-8001
> daniel.kulp@iona.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Matthias Wessendorf
further stuff:
blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf
mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Daniel Kulp <da...@iona.com>.
On Thursday July 27 2006 1:13 pm, Matthias Wessendorf wrote:
> > > <version>incubator-m1-SNAPSHOT</version>
> > >
> > > incubator +
> > > m1 = milestone1
> > > + SNAPSHOT (since no m1 release yet)
> >
> > Sounds good to me.
>
> So we put this to the guideline?
> incubator + mX (+ SNAPSHOT)
I'd like to get another Maven "expert" in here on this, but I know I've
seen "issues" with having a version that doesn't start with a number. Thus,
something like:
0.1-incubator-m1-SNAPSHOT
or
1.0-incubator-m1-SNAPSHOT
or similar.
Some of the maven "version matches", especiall in regards to pattern matching,
kind of expect that form. I think the "better builds with maven 2" book
describes the preferred pattern as something like:
#.#[.#*][-qualifier][-#][-SNAPSHOT]
Anyway, yoko has gone with 1.0-incubating-M1-SNAPSHOT
--
J. Daniel Kulp
Principal Engineer
IONA
P: 781-902-8727 C: 508-380-7194 F:781-902-8001
daniel.kulp@iona.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org>.
> We could do - though given the choice I'd rather keep the m2 snapshot
> repo for just snapshots (of both incubating and non-incubating
> projects) and use the existing m2 repo for just actual releases of
> projects (both incubating and non-incubating).
+1
we already do
http://people.apache.org/repo/m2-snapshot-repository/org/apache/myfaces/adf/
:)
> --
>
> James
> -------
> http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Matthias Wessendorf
further stuff:
blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf
mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com>.
On 7/27/06, Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > <version>incubator-m1-SNAPSHOT</version>
> > >
> > > incubator +
> > > m1 = milestone1
> > > + SNAPSHOT (since no m1 release yet)
> >
> > Sounds good to me.
>
> So we put this to the guideline?
> incubator + mX (+ SNAPSHOT)
>
>
> > > What I more like that a seperate maven1/2 repo is maybe a incubator
> > > continuum server.
> > > Currently Trinidad uses that MyFaces continuum server.
> >
> > Yeah! :) One of those would rock too.
> >
> > Though we also need an m2 repository so that users using m2 can build
> > against releases of incubating projects.
>
> Or we just use *regular* snapshot repo?
We could do - though given the choice I'd rather keep the m2 snapshot
repo for just snapshots (of both incubating and non-incubating
projects) and use the existing m2 repo for just actual releases of
projects (both incubating and non-incubating).
--
James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org>.
> > <version>incubator-m1-SNAPSHOT</version>
> >
> > incubator +
> > m1 = milestone1
> > + SNAPSHOT (since no m1 release yet)
>
> Sounds good to me.
So we put this to the guideline?
incubator + mX (+ SNAPSHOT)
> > What I more like that a seperate maven1/2 repo is maybe a incubator
> > continuum server.
> > Currently Trinidad uses that MyFaces continuum server.
>
> Yeah! :) One of those would rock too.
>
> Though we also need an m2 repository so that users using m2 can build
> against releases of incubating projects.
Or we just use *regular* snapshot repo?
> --
>
> James
> -------
> http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Matthias Wessendorf
further stuff:
blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf
mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com>.
On 7/27/06, Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Actually thats a good argument for using a single maven 2 repository
> > for incubating and non-incubating releases and forcing the use of the
> > 'incubator/incubating' text in the version of incubating projects
> > releases. As it means if you are looking at the POM its immediately
> > obvious what the incubating status is - whereaas its not obvious if
> > you are using different repositories (since Maven can use many remote
> > repositories taken from the current pom or a super-pom and so from a
> > pom its not completely obvious what comes from where etc).
>
> Hi James,
>
> What we do currently (trying to name the versions righ) is:
>
> <groupId>org.apache.myfaces.trinidad</groupId>
> <artifactId>trinidad</artifactId>
> <packaging>pom</packaging>
> <name>Apache Incubator Trinidad Podling</name>
> <version>incubator-m1-SNAPSHOT</version>
>
> incubator +
> m1 = milestone1
> + SNAPSHOT (since no m1 release yet)
Sounds good to me.
> What I more like that a seperate maven1/2 repo is maybe a incubator
> continuum server.
> Currently Trinidad uses that MyFaces continuum server.
Yeah! :) One of those would rock too.
Though we also need an m2 repository so that users using m2 can build
against releases of incubating projects.
--
James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org>.
> Actually thats a good argument for using a single maven 2 repository
> for incubating and non-incubating releases and forcing the use of the
> 'incubator/incubating' text in the version of incubating projects
> releases. As it means if you are looking at the POM its immediately
> obvious what the incubating status is - whereaas its not obvious if
> you are using different repositories (since Maven can use many remote
> repositories taken from the current pom or a super-pom and so from a
> pom its not completely obvious what comes from where etc).
Hi James,
What we do currently (trying to name the versions righ) is:
<groupId>org.apache.myfaces.trinidad</groupId>
<artifactId>trinidad</artifactId>
<packaging>pom</packaging>
<name>Apache Incubator Trinidad Podling</name>
<version>incubator-m1-SNAPSHOT</version>
incubator +
m1 = milestone1
+ SNAPSHOT (since no m1 release yet)
m1 has sorta *historic* reasons; when we (MyFaces) started there was
Geronimo in incubation; they used milestone b/c not a fullblown J2EE
1.4 container. MyFaces also was not certified. Since we - the MyFaces
PMC - had good experience with the milestone; we keept it for Trinidad
as well.
What I more like that a seperate maven1/2 repo is maybe a incubator
continuum server.
Currently Trinidad uses that MyFaces continuum server.
What do you think?
-Matthias
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com>.
On 7/27/06, Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 09:14:11AM +0100, James Strachan wrote:
> > I understand the current rules of the incubator forbid the use of the
> > apache mirrors for incubating projects.
>
> I didn't know of that rule. Can't find it on the web anywhere, at least.
>
> If it is a rule, then there's some violations. Eg synapse
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/synapse/download.cgi
>
> is being mirrored.
>
> I must say it somehow makes sense not to mirror this stuff; after all the
> "lifetime" of these releases is not supposed to be all that long and the
> number of downloads is probably low, too. It seems we indeed don't mirror
> most things, eg, they are at
>
> http://people.apache.org/dist/incubator/
>
> > However could we have a maven
> > 2 repository somewhere for the releases of incubating projects?
>
> Can't see why not. I would say somewhere inside
>
> http://people.apache.org/dist/incubator/
>
> > Or
> > could we put the incubating projects's m2 releases in the current m2
> > repository (afterall the versions of the jars have 'incubator' in
> > their name to clearly mark them?
>
> I don't have an objection to that either.
>
> > I'd be happy with either approach; the latter option is simpler as its
> > one less URL to remember (and I get confused enough as it is
> > remembering where all the maven repos are ;-) plus it minimises the
> > impact on users as projects graduate, not having to switch maven
> > repositories.
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
> Other than that it should be easier to use many different repositories
> with maven ( :) ), I don't care very much either way. The whole idea
> behind all those policies we have is that it is pretty clear to users
> what the 'status' of the stuff they're geting is. If the filename says
> "incubating" that means users are typing that into the maven POM file;
> it seems they're not all that likely to pay much attention to whether
> its people.apache.org/dist/ or www.apache.org/dist/.
Actually thats a good argument for using a single maven 2 repository
for incubating and non-incubating releases and forcing the use of the
'incubator/incubating' text in the version of incubating projects
releases. As it means if you are looking at the POM its immediately
obvious what the incubating status is - whereaas its not obvious if
you are using different repositories (since Maven can use many remote
repositories taken from the current pom or a super-pom and so from a
pom its not completely obvious what comes from where etc).
--
James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
RE: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> synapse
> http://incubator.apache.org/synapse/download.cgi
> is being mirrored.
Incubator code should not be on www.apache.org/dist. Only official ASF
releases are permitted to be there. Our stuff should be under
people.apache.org/dist/incubator/${podling}.
Remember: we're not trying to make Incubator code *too* widely available.
Only very committed users should be touching it at all.
> > could we put the incubating projects's m2 releases in the current m2
> > repository (afterall the versions of the jars have 'incubator' in
> > their name to clearly mark them?
We do not want to intermix the code at all. The Incubator is a firewall
between ASF and Incubator code. And if people don't start respecting that,
we may find that the voices asking to push the Incubator to an entirely
separate domain win out, which I would consider a bad thing.
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>.
On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 09:14:11AM +0100, James Strachan wrote:
> I understand the current rules of the incubator forbid the use of the
> apache mirrors for incubating projects.
I didn't know of that rule. Can't find it on the web anywhere, at least.
If it is a rule, then there's some violations. Eg synapse
http://incubator.apache.org/synapse/download.cgi
is being mirrored.
I must say it somehow makes sense not to mirror this stuff; after all the
"lifetime" of these releases is not supposed to be all that long and the
number of downloads is probably low, too. It seems we indeed don't mirror
most things, eg, they are at
http://people.apache.org/dist/incubator/
> However could we have a maven
> 2 repository somewhere for the releases of incubating projects?
Can't see why not. I would say somewhere inside
http://people.apache.org/dist/incubator/
> Or
> could we put the incubating projects's m2 releases in the current m2
> repository (afterall the versions of the jars have 'incubator' in
> their name to clearly mark them?
I don't have an objection to that either.
> I'd be happy with either approach; the latter option is simpler as its
> one less URL to remember (and I get confused enough as it is
> remembering where all the maven repos are ;-) plus it minimises the
> impact on users as projects graduate, not having to switch maven
> repositories.
>
> Thoughts?
Other than that it should be easier to use many different repositories
with maven ( :) ), I don't care very much either way. The whole idea
behind all those policies we have is that it is pretty clear to users
what the 'status' of the stuff they're geting is. If the filename says
"incubating" that means users are typing that into the maven POM file;
it seems they're not all that likely to pay much attention to whether
its people.apache.org/dist/ or www.apache.org/dist/.
LSD
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 8/7/06, Daniel Kulp <da...@iona.com> wrote:
>
> Was there any resolution/agreement on this thread? Any actions taken (like
> creation of the incubating repositories)?
>
> The Yoko project was asked to publish some SNAPSHOT's (by another apache
> project BTW), but they're not sure what to put in their
> distributionManagement section of the poms. Several incubating projects
> are deploying to the normal apache SNAPSHOT repository, but before yoko
> started doing that, I wanted to double check to make sure that they aren't
> supposed to put them someplace else instead.
I don't think there's any reason to separate incubating snapshots from
apache snapshots; neither one should be something that people depend
on strongly and they could vanish at any time (if say we needed
diskspace very very quickly :) ).
> Also, they're getting close to finalizing a milestone 1 release at which point
> they'd like to publish a non-snapshot, but still incubating, release. Which
> repository do those go in?
I think we should have a separate repository for the proper releases.
> I personally prefer:
> people.apache.org/repo/m1-incubating-repository
> people.apache.org/repo/m2-incubating-repository
Noel, shall I go ahead and create the above? They get my +1 from a
repository@ point of view.
Hen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Daniel Kulp <da...@iona.com>.
Was there any resolution/agreement on this thread? Any actions taken (like
creation of the incubating repositories)?
The Yoko project was asked to publish some SNAPSHOT's (by another apache
project BTW), but they're not sure what to put in their
distributionManagement section of the poms. Several incubating projects
are deploying to the normal apache SNAPSHOT repository, but before yoko
started doing that, I wanted to double check to make sure that they aren't
supposed to put them someplace else instead.
Also, they're getting close to finalizing a milestone 1 release at which point
they'd like to publish a non-snapshot, but still incubating, release. Which
repository do those go in?
I personally prefer:
people.apache.org/repo/m1-incubating-repository
people.apache.org/repo/m2-incubating-repository
people.apache.org/repo/m1-incubating-snapshot-repository
people.apache.org/repo/m2-incubating-snapshot-repository
Either that or hang it off of incubator.apache.org somehow:
incubator.apache.org/repo/m1
incubator.apache.org/repo/m2
incubator.apache.org/repo/m1-snapshot
incubator.apache.org/repo/m2-snapshot
Thanks!
Dan
On Tuesday August 01 2006 3:16 pm, Henri Yandell wrote:
> On 8/1/06, James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I understand the concerns of keeping incubating code separate from the
> > rest of Apache and away from the mirrors - I just don't yet see the
> > issue with having somewhere on incubator.apache.org where we put a
> > folder containing releases of incubating projects?(i.e. a maven 2
> > repo).
>
> +1 to having another repository if that's what's needed. Can we keep
> them in the same place as the others though and not inside the
> incubator.apache.org website?
>
> I suggest:
>
> people.apache.org/repo/m1-incubating-repository
> people.apache.org/repo/m2-incubating-repository
>
> It fits the scheme of the others and makes it easier for repository@
> to have a clue what is going on.
>
> Hen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
--
J. Daniel Kulp
Principal Engineer
IONA
P: 781-902-8727 C: 508-380-7194 F:781-902-8001
daniel.kulp@iona.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 1 Aug 06, at 3:16 PM 1 Aug 06, Henri Yandell wrote:
> On 8/1/06, James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I understand the concerns of keeping incubating code separate from
>> the
>> rest of Apache and away from the mirrors - I just don't yet see the
>> issue with having somewhere on incubator.apache.org where we put a
>> folder containing releases of incubating projects?(i.e. a maven 2
>> repo).
>
> +1 to having another repository if that's what's needed. Can we keep
> them in the same place as the others though and not inside the
> incubator.apache.org website?
>
> I suggest:
>
> people.apache.org/repo/m1-incubating-repository
> people.apache.org/repo/m2-incubating-repository
>
> It fits the scheme of the others and makes it easier for repository@
> to have a clue what is going on.
>
+1
Sounds like a sane and reasonable plan. If we need snapshot or plugin
repositories later on we can add them.
> Hen
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Jason van Zyl
jason@maven.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com>.
On 8/1/06, Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/1/06, James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I understand the concerns of keeping incubating code separate from the
> > rest of Apache and away from the mirrors - I just don't yet see the
> > issue with having somewhere on incubator.apache.org where we put a
> > folder containing releases of incubating projects?(i.e. a maven 2
> > repo).
>
> +1 to having another repository if that's what's needed. Can we keep
> them in the same place as the others though and not inside the
> incubator.apache.org website?
>
> I suggest:
>
> people.apache.org/repo/m1-incubating-repository
> people.apache.org/repo/m2-incubating-repository
>
> It fits the scheme of the others and makes it easier for repository@
> to have a clue what is going on.
+1
Sounds good to me
--
James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
On 8/1/06, James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I understand the concerns of keeping incubating code separate from the
> rest of Apache and away from the mirrors - I just don't yet see the
> issue with having somewhere on incubator.apache.org where we put a
> folder containing releases of incubating projects?(i.e. a maven 2
> repo).
+1 to having another repository if that's what's needed. Can we keep
them in the same place as the others though and not inside the
incubator.apache.org website?
I suggest:
people.apache.org/repo/m1-incubating-repository
people.apache.org/repo/m2-incubating-repository
It fits the scheme of the others and makes it easier for repository@
to have a clue what is going on.
Hen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com>.
On 8/1/06, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> Brett Porter wrote:
>
> > So the solution that best corresponds to this is an incubation repository.
>
> That's what's been said, but you're one of the Maven ... er ... mavens. :-)
If it helps Noel, here's a couple of use cases.
In ActiveMQ we ship a bunch of examples for users to try out the code.
They are built using Maven 2 and all the artifacts they require
contain 'incubator in their name'. The problem is because there is no
maven 2 repo to put these dependencies, the example programs we ship
in releases don't even compile.
Another use case is quite a few projects depend on ActiveMQ both
inside and outside of Apache. e.g. ServiceMix, Jencks, Lingo et al.
We'd like folks to try out the code that is being incubated (not the
releases from a year ago on codehaus) - so consequently we'd like
those other projects to migrate to the Apache version of the code
ASAP.
Right now we have a snapshot repo which is good so that projects can
actually compile. However only snapshot jars are available - which
means that (i) we can't make stable milestones for dependent projects
to use and (ii) the dependent projects can never release themselves.
I understand the concerns of keeping incubating code separate from the
rest of Apache and away from the mirrors - I just don't yet see the
issue with having somewhere on incubator.apache.org where we put a
folder containing releases of incubating projects?(i.e. a maven 2
repo).
--
James
-------
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
On 8/1/06, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> Brett Porter wrote:
> > So the solution that best corresponds to this is an incubation repository.
Maven repositories offer two main benefits:
1) Access to POMs for automatic artifact metadata like further
dependencies etc.
2) Access to the actual code artifacts for automatic download
I don't see how putting artifacts in a repository designed and used
for automatic download could prevent those artifacts from being
automatically downloaded!
Wouldn't the requirement of no automatic downloads be better solved by
a policy that incubating projects may only publish POMs and not the
code artifacts in Maven repositories? This way Maven would still be
able to do the magic it does, while prompting the user with
instructions on where and how to download any incubating dependencies.
> > Note that in the case that a project external to the ASF decides to
> > use these details and publish a release based on it, it is entirely
> > possible that they can, and a user of that project will not have to
> > specify these details because of the transitive nature of Maven's
> > dependencies.
>
> Explain, please. The user won't have to do what and why? Won't the user
> have to at least add the Incubator repository to their list, even if after
> doing so they may get other Incubator artifacts other than the one(s)
> expected?
In addition to the dependencies a project uses, it can also specify
the repositories it uses. In this case the dependency is still
downloaded automatically without user intervention. In my experience
this feature is widely used.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
--
Yukatan - http://yukatan.fi/ - info@yukatan.fi
Software craftsmanship, JCR consulting, and Java development
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
RE: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Brett Porter wrote:
> So the solution that best corresponds to this is an incubation repository.
That's what's been said, but you're one of the Maven ... er ... mavens. :-)
> None of this will be uploaded to Ibiblio (and Maven will deny requests
> to do so).
> Note that in the case that a project external to the ASF decides to
> use these details and publish a release based on it, it is entirely
> possible that they can, and a user of that project will not have to
> specify these details because of the transitive nature of Maven's
> dependencies.
Explain, please. The user won't have to do what and why? Won't the user
have to at least add the Incubator repository to their list, even if after
doing so they may get other Incubator artifacts other than the one(s)
expected?
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@gmail.com>.
So the solution that best corresponds to this is an incubation repository.
<repository>
<url>http://people.apache.org/maven-repository-incubator/</url>
</repository>
(this could well be incubator.apache.org/maven-repository or whatever)
Then:
<dependency>
<groupId>org.apache.activemq</groupId>
<artifactId>activemq</artifactId>
<version>4.0.1-incubated</version>
</dependency>
None of this will be uploaded to Ibiblio (and Maven will deny requests
to do so).
Note that in the case that a project external to the ASF decides to
use these details and publish a release based on it, it is entirely
possible that they can, and a user of that project will not have to
specify these details because of the transitive nature of Maven's
dependencies.
- Brett
On 01/08/06, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> Eelco Hillenius wrote:
>
> > Noel J Bergman wrote:
>
> > > Most users should not be using Incubator code. Only those who are
> committed
> > > and willing to trust that the project will do well here and eventually
> > > become an ASF project.
>
> Keep in mind that I am referring to code in that is in, and being released
> from, the Incubator, i.e., "Incubator code." Keep that in context.
>
> > I'm new to Apache incubation (and part of project Wicket which just
> > put up a proposal for incubation). What is very different from what I
> > expected it to be, is that it seems that the whole process 'feels'
> > like it is geared towards new projects. Which is surprising given the
> > number of mature/ proven projects that regularly enter incubation.
>
> I understand, but you might want to also read my other messages regarding
> Wicket, specifically, and transitioning for established projects in general.
> See my replies to Justin Erenkrantz and Craig Russell, for example. If you
> do, I suspect that you'll find that we're more in agreement than
> disagreement.
>
> --- Noel
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Apache Maven - http://maven.apache.org
"Better Builds with Maven" book - http://library.mergere.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for explaining Robert. Makes sense.
Eelco
On 8/1/06, robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/1/06, Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Most users should not be using Incubator code. Only those who are committed
> > > and willing to trust that the project will do well here and eventually
> > > become an ASF project.
> > >
> > > Remember that most people don't believe that Incubator projects should even
> > > have a user@ list, only a dev@ list.
> >
> > I'm new to Apache incubation (and part of project Wicket which just
> > put up a proposal for incubation). What is very different from what I
> > expected it to be, is that it seems that the whole process 'feels'
> > like it is geared towards new projects. Which is surprising given the
> > number of mature/ proven projects that regularly enter incubation.
>
> effort is usually applied where concerns are greatest - and ATM that's
> helping closed projects to open up. there's less concern about mature
> projects using open development so less energy has been devoted there.
>
> (so, it's important that people keep jumping in if the process isn't
> working as well as it might.)
>
> > Saying that most users should not be using incubator code makes sense
> > for projects that are in some alpha stage of development. But for more
> > mature projects (such as Wicket, active for 2.5 years, 6,000 - 12,000
> > downloads monthly and a couple of thousand more via maven, 17,000+
> > messages on the user lists alone), doing that would either effectively
> > shut the project down for more than half a year (and probably loose a
> > huge customer base) or force developers to branch and maintain a
> > production release somewhere else. This way of looking at incubation
> > strikes me being quite inflexible.
>
> here's another way of looking at this: an established open source
> project with a philosophy sympathetic to apache should be able to pass
> through incubation relatively quickly. the only issue should be
> (legal) compliance. once such a project has demonstrated that all
> their code base is covered by the appropriate legal documents,
> complies with the licensing policy and that they understand how to
> create complient releases then they should tidy up the paperwork and
> think about applying for graduation.
>
> apache is trusted by a lot of downstream organisations to create
> releases which are legally sound. we spend a lot of energy trying to
> ensure that our official releases are squeaky clean.
>
> releases from the incubator are painful for various reasons. it's
> probable that existing release processes will need changes before they
> are ok at apache. things may well go more smoothly if production
> releases are cut offshore at first.
>
> > Forgive me if I misinterpreted what incubation is all about, but I
> > expected incubation to be a period where the project being incubated
> > and Apache see whether they are a good fit to each other. Surely, such
> > projects should communicate that incubation does not guarantee that
> > the project will actually be accepted to be an Apache project, or that
> > the project decides to go on with Apache, but it should communicate a
> > strong intention from both sides. Otherwise what is the point of even
> > having a formalized process and involving users in it?
>
> apache is democractic and so some minimal formal process is needed :-)
>
> apache means open development. we want to encourage maximum
> participation. we'd like everyone (including users) to be involved.
>
> but i think i agree with the sentiments expressed above (at least for
> mature open source projects moving to apache)
>
> the incubator is still very much under development. we still have a
> lot to learn.
>
> > Furthermore,
> > the process of incubation and saying something about the usability of
> > projects' releases should imho be two different, disconnected aspects.
>
> we trying pretty hard not to say anything about the usability of releases
>
> the risk with incubator releases is not code quality - it's legal.
> there is higher legal risk using incubator releases then official
> apache releases. (this probably needs to be said better in the
> documentation - patches gratefully received.)
>
> there would also some concerns about branding if full releases were
> allowed but IMHO this is more of an issue for projects that begin as
> closed source. (we want them to demonstrate that they understand how
> to open up the development before we allow full releases associated
> with the apache brand.)
>
> we could add some formal process for podlings with a good track record
> to cut full releases but i think it would be better if they invested
> more energy into pushing towards graduation than another formality.
>
> - robert
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 8/1/06, Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Most users should not be using Incubator code. Only those who are committed
> > and willing to trust that the project will do well here and eventually
> > become an ASF project.
> >
> > Remember that most people don't believe that Incubator projects should even
> > have a user@ list, only a dev@ list.
>
> I'm new to Apache incubation (and part of project Wicket which just
> put up a proposal for incubation). What is very different from what I
> expected it to be, is that it seems that the whole process 'feels'
> like it is geared towards new projects. Which is surprising given the
> number of mature/ proven projects that regularly enter incubation.
effort is usually applied where concerns are greatest - and ATM that's
helping closed projects to open up. there's less concern about mature
projects using open development so less energy has been devoted there.
(so, it's important that people keep jumping in if the process isn't
working as well as it might.)
> Saying that most users should not be using incubator code makes sense
> for projects that are in some alpha stage of development. But for more
> mature projects (such as Wicket, active for 2.5 years, 6,000 - 12,000
> downloads monthly and a couple of thousand more via maven, 17,000+
> messages on the user lists alone), doing that would either effectively
> shut the project down for more than half a year (and probably loose a
> huge customer base) or force developers to branch and maintain a
> production release somewhere else. This way of looking at incubation
> strikes me being quite inflexible.
here's another way of looking at this: an established open source
project with a philosophy sympathetic to apache should be able to pass
through incubation relatively quickly. the only issue should be
(legal) compliance. once such a project has demonstrated that all
their code base is covered by the appropriate legal documents,
complies with the licensing policy and that they understand how to
create complient releases then they should tidy up the paperwork and
think about applying for graduation.
apache is trusted by a lot of downstream organisations to create
releases which are legally sound. we spend a lot of energy trying to
ensure that our official releases are squeaky clean.
releases from the incubator are painful for various reasons. it's
probable that existing release processes will need changes before they
are ok at apache. things may well go more smoothly if production
releases are cut offshore at first.
> Forgive me if I misinterpreted what incubation is all about, but I
> expected incubation to be a period where the project being incubated
> and Apache see whether they are a good fit to each other. Surely, such
> projects should communicate that incubation does not guarantee that
> the project will actually be accepted to be an Apache project, or that
> the project decides to go on with Apache, but it should communicate a
> strong intention from both sides. Otherwise what is the point of even
> having a formalized process and involving users in it?
apache is democractic and so some minimal formal process is needed :-)
apache means open development. we want to encourage maximum
participation. we'd like everyone (including users) to be involved.
but i think i agree with the sentiments expressed above (at least for
mature open source projects moving to apache)
the incubator is still very much under development. we still have a
lot to learn.
> Furthermore,
> the process of incubation and saying something about the usability of
> projects' releases should imho be two different, disconnected aspects.
we trying pretty hard not to say anything about the usability of releases
the risk with incubator releases is not code quality - it's legal.
there is higher legal risk using incubator releases then official
apache releases. (this probably needs to be said better in the
documentation - patches gratefully received.)
there would also some concerns about branding if full releases were
allowed but IMHO this is more of an issue for projects that begin as
closed source. (we want them to demonstrate that they understand how
to open up the development before we allow full releases associated
with the apache brand.)
we could add some formal process for podlings with a good track record
to cut full releases but i think it would be better if they invested
more energy into pushing towards graduation than another formality.
- robert
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
RE: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Eelco Hillenius wrote:
> Noel J Bergman wrote:
> > Most users should not be using Incubator code. Only those who are
committed
> > and willing to trust that the project will do well here and eventually
> > become an ASF project.
Keep in mind that I am referring to code in that is in, and being released
from, the Incubator, i.e., "Incubator code." Keep that in context.
> I'm new to Apache incubation (and part of project Wicket which just
> put up a proposal for incubation). What is very different from what I
> expected it to be, is that it seems that the whole process 'feels'
> like it is geared towards new projects. Which is surprising given the
> number of mature/ proven projects that regularly enter incubation.
I understand, but you might want to also read my other messages regarding
Wicket, specifically, and transitioning for established projects in general.
See my replies to Justin Erenkrantz and Craig Russell, for example. If you
do, I suspect that you'll find that we're more in agreement than
disagreement.
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>.
> Most users should not be using Incubator code. Only those who are committed
> and willing to trust that the project will do well here and eventually
> become an ASF project.
>
> Remember that most people don't believe that Incubator projects should even
> have a user@ list, only a dev@ list.
I'm new to Apache incubation (and part of project Wicket which just
put up a proposal for incubation). What is very different from what I
expected it to be, is that it seems that the whole process 'feels'
like it is geared towards new projects. Which is surprising given the
number of mature/ proven projects that regularly enter incubation.
Saying that most users should not be using incubator code makes sense
for projects that are in some alpha stage of development. But for more
mature projects (such as Wicket, active for 2.5 years, 6,000 - 12,000
downloads monthly and a couple of thousand more via maven, 17,000+
messages on the user lists alone), doing that would either effectively
shut the project down for more than half a year (and probably loose a
huge customer base) or force developers to branch and maintain a
production release somewhere else. This way of looking at incubation
strikes me being quite inflexible.
Forgive me if I misinterpreted what incubation is all about, but I
expected incubation to be a period where the project being incubated
and Apache see whether they are a good fit to each other. Surely, such
projects should communicate that incubation does not guarantee that
the project will actually be accepted to be an Apache project, or that
the project decides to go on with Apache, but it should communicate a
strong intention from both sides. Otherwise what is the point of even
having a formalized process and involving users in it? Furthermore,
the process of incubation and saying something about the usability of
projects' releases should imho be two different, disconnected aspects.
Just my 2c,
Eelco
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
RE: Maven 2 repo for incubating project releases?
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
James Strachan wrote:
> Right now its hurting users of incubating projects not to have a maven
> 2 repository of the actual releases made by the projects.
Most users should not be using Incubator code. Only those who are committed
and willing to trust that the project will do well here and eventually
become an ASF project.
Remember that most people don't believe that Incubator projects should even
have a user@ list, only a dev@ list.
--- Noel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org