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Posted to user@ofbiz.apache.org by Hans Bakker <h....@antwebsystems.com> on 2012/03/21 14:00:04 UTC
Is ofbiz going the sugarcrm, magento route? (essential extra's are
commercial?)
(I also copied the user list because users are heavily impacted here.
Users please read the development forum at http://www.ofbiz.info)
Hi Everybody interested in the future of ofbiz,
-------------------------------------------------------------
*i am very concerned with the current route which is proposed by Jacopo
in the development mailing list: "Lose Weight Program for OFBiz"*
Why?
Have only a minimal core ERP with minimal functionality, anything extra
is moved to either:
1. *Apache extras* (http://www.apache-extras.com) which is just a url
link menu into "Google projects" This will not be maintained by the
Apache OFBiz committers and only outside the Apache environment.
2. *attic* (abandoned=deleted)
Pushing out complete components and functions like for example all
components in the specialized directory such as e-commerce, project
manager, asset manager and others and also Birt (Reporting) integration
out of the OFBiz core system will actually mean: components will be
abandoned even when stored in "apache extra's" and will be picked up by
commercial companies like mine (Antwebsystems) and others and will
promote them as commercial add-ons for a fee.
[my Antwebsystems CEO hat on]
Actually we (AntWebsystems) already started the process a couple of
months ago, we have internal chat/live chat(see our website), twitter,
sitemap, saas/tenant extension, shindig/igoogle integration, task
manager and more because a number of committers objected that we added
more functions, so we stopped contributing major functions.
[my Apache PMC member hat on]
This can now happen with anything that will be removed from the core
system. There are many articles about the commercialization of open
source products on the internet, examples are Sugercrm and Magento and
OFBiz will be the next one:
*In the future, a reasonable OFBiz system cannot be be run without
commercial extra's!
*
Please keep this in mind if you react on the proposal "Lose Weight
Program for OFBiz": do not agree too easily.
[my Antwebsystems CEO hat on]
From a commercialization point of view please remove as much as
possible.....
[my Apache PMC member hat on]
Only remove the component/functions which are not maintained.
Regards,
Hans Bakker
*Proud Apache OFBiz PMC member* and yes also CEO Antwebsystems Co.Ltd.
Re: Is ofbiz going the sugarcrm, magento route? (essential extra's are commercial?)
Posted by Vikas Mayur <vi...@gmail.com>.
I do not see any issues if the existing projects that are slated to be moved to Extras adhere to the ASF 2.0 license but as I see it further I don't see any issues either if the license of any project is changed in future. I think it would be good for the project overall and while its not necessary that there would be just one company/maintainer of the code for any particular project, I believe anyone (individual or company) can use the base project (project at the moment with ASF 2.0) and enhance it, form a community in itself. At a point of time there could be a number of different flavors of the same project with different user groups and maintainer (individual or company). Its like linux OS distributed in different flavors, right? The quality of these project will definitely improve with a stiff competition from similar projects and the end user eventually have more options to find a right project for himself.
New projects of course can have ASF 2.0 or any other commercial license.
On Mar 21, 2012, at 6:30 PM, Hans Bakker wrote:
> (I also copied the user list because users are heavily impacted here. Users please read the development forum at http://www.ofbiz.info)
>
> Hi Everybody interested in the future of ofbiz,
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> *i am very concerned with the current route which is proposed by Jacopo in the development mailing list: "Lose Weight Program for OFBiz"*
>
> Why?
>
> Have only a minimal core ERP with minimal functionality, anything extra is moved to either:
> 1. *Apache extras* (http://www.apache-extras.com) which is just a url link menu into "Google projects" This will not be maintained by the Apache OFBiz committers and only outside the Apache environment.
> 2. *attic* (abandoned=deleted)
>
> Pushing out complete components and functions like for example all components in the specialized directory such as e-commerce, project manager, asset manager and others and also Birt (Reporting) integration out of the OFBiz core system will actually mean: components will be abandoned even when stored in "apache extra's" and will be picked up by commercial companies like mine (Antwebsystems) and others and will promote them as commercial add-ons for a fee.
As far I see the responses, devs are interested in keeping the e-commerce under the specialpurpose directory. Did I mis-read?
>
> [my Antwebsystems CEO hat on]
> Actually we (AntWebsystems) already started the process a couple of months ago, we have internal chat/live chat(see our website), twitter, sitemap, saas/tenant extension, shindig/igoogle integration, task manager and more because a number of committers objected that we added more functions, so we stopped contributing major functions.
Not to mention that any such projects developed by AntWebsystems (I believe they are commercial right now) could be the next big projects in Extras and might attract a large number of users for contributions too. It may be easier for the customers to adopt to these projects if you decide to distribute it with ASF 2.0 :)
>
> [my Apache PMC member hat on]
> This can now happen with anything that will be removed from the core system. There are many articles about the commercialization of open source products on the internet, examples are Sugercrm and Magento and OFBiz will be the next one:
>
> *In the future, a reasonable OFBiz system cannot be be run without commercial extra's!
> *
> Please keep this in mind if you react on the proposal "Lose Weight Program for OFBiz": do not agree too easily.
I am sure that this will help in large adoption of the project OFBiz.
Regards
Vikas
>
> [my Antwebsystems CEO hat on]
> From a commercialization point of view please remove as much as possible.....
> [my Apache PMC member hat on]
> Only remove the component/functions which are not maintained.
>
> Regards,
> Hans Bakker
> *Proud Apache OFBiz PMC member* and yes also CEO Antwebsystems Co.Ltd.
>
Re: Is ofbiz going the sugarcrm, magento route? (essential extra's
are commercial?)
Posted by Mansour Al Akeel <ma...@gmail.com>.
As of now, anyone can disable components, and enable them as an extra
commercial plugins. An if they are downloaded separately, it doesn't
add to their commercial value. I am not sure if I missing something
here.
For example, at this point, anyone can disable Birt component, and say
"Hey, I can add for you a reporting tools for $XXXX extra".
The work involved will be just enabling it. IMHO there's no way to
control the honesty of any commercial organization except competition
and keeping it open source.
Jacopo's proposal is good for the health of the product. I believe
having a smaller code base will encourage users to contribute more,
and enforce a little bit more control over what goes into the SVN. If
there's unmaintained code, then it can be marked unmaintained by
moving it out, and eventually, someone party will pick it and maintain
it as an open source or commercial, depending on their business model.
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Hans Bakker <h....@antwebsystems.com> wrote:
> (I also copied the user list because users are heavily impacted here. Users
> please read the development forum at http://www.ofbiz.info)
>
> Hi Everybody interested in the future of ofbiz,
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> *i am very concerned with the current route which is proposed by Jacopo in
> the development mailing list: "Lose Weight Program for OFBiz"*
>
> Why?
>
> Have only a minimal core ERP with minimal functionality, anything extra is
> moved to either:
> 1. *Apache extras* (http://www.apache-extras.com) which is just a url link
> menu into "Google projects" This will not be maintained by the Apache OFBiz
> committers and only outside the Apache environment.
> 2. *attic* (abandoned=deleted)
>
> Pushing out complete components and functions like for example all
> components in the specialized directory such as e-commerce, project manager,
> asset manager and others and also Birt (Reporting) integration out of the
> OFBiz core system will actually mean: components will be abandoned even when
> stored in "apache extra's" and will be picked up by commercial companies
> like mine (Antwebsystems) and others and will promote them as commercial
> add-ons for a fee.
>
> [my Antwebsystems CEO hat on]
> Actually we (AntWebsystems) already started the process a couple of months
> ago, we have internal chat/live chat(see our website), twitter, sitemap,
> saas/tenant extension, shindig/igoogle integration, task manager and more
> because a number of committers objected that we added more functions, so we
> stopped contributing major functions.
>
> [my Apache PMC member hat on]
> This can now happen with anything that will be removed from the core system.
> There are many articles about the commercialization of open source products
> on the internet, examples are Sugercrm and Magento and OFBiz will be the
> next one:
>
> *In the future, a reasonable OFBiz system cannot be be run without
> commercial extra's!
> *
> Please keep this in mind if you react on the proposal "Lose Weight Program
> for OFBiz": do not agree too easily.
>
> [my Antwebsystems CEO hat on]
> From a commercialization point of view please remove as much as
> possible.....
> [my Apache PMC member hat on]
> Only remove the component/functions which are not maintained.
>
> Regards,
> Hans Bakker
> *Proud Apache OFBiz PMC member* and yes also CEO Antwebsystems Co.Ltd.
>
Re: Is ofbiz going the sugarcrm, magento route? (essential extra's
are commercial?)
Posted by Olivier Heintz <ho...@nereide.biz>.
Le 21/03/2012 14:00, Hans Bakker a écrit :
> (I also copied the user list because users are heavily impacted here.
> Users please read the development forum at http://www.ofbiz.info)
>
> Hi Everybody interested in the future of ofbiz,
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> *i am very concerned with the current route which is proposed by
> Jacopo in the development mailing list: "Lose Weight Program for OFBiz"*
>
> Why?
>
> Have only a minimal core ERP with minimal functionality, anything
> extra is moved to either:
> 1. *Apache extras* (http://www.apache-extras.com) which is just a url
> link menu into "Google projects" This will not be maintained by the
> Apache OFBiz committers and only outside the Apache environment.
> 2. *attic* (abandoned=deleted)
>
> Pushing out complete components and functions like for example all
> components in the specialized directory such as e-commerce, project
> manager, asset manager and others and also Birt (Reporting)
> integration out of the OFBiz core system will actually mean:
> components will be abandoned even when stored in "apache extra's" and
> will be picked up by commercial companies like mine (Antwebsystems)
> and others and will promote them as commercial add-ons for a fee.
>
> [my Antwebsystems CEO hat on]
> Actually we (AntWebsystems) already started the process a couple of
> months ago, we have internal chat/live chat(see our website), twitter,
> sitemap, saas/tenant extension, shindig/igoogle integration, task
> manager and more because a number of committers objected that we added
> more functions, so we stopped contributing major functions.
>
> [my Apache PMC member hat on]
> This can now happen with anything that will be removed from the core
> system. There are many articles about the commercialization of open
> source products on the internet, examples are Sugercrm and Magento and
> OFBiz will be the next one:
>
> *In the future, a reasonable OFBiz system cannot be be run without
> commercial extra's!
in my mind plug-in system is good to replace a plug-in we don't want
> *
> Please keep this in mind if you react on the proposal "Lose Weight
> Program for OFBiz": do not agree too easily.
I'm a GPL fan, so I will do all what is possible to be sure there will
still a large community for a Free software ERP base on OFBiz
I'm a modularity fan, so I don't like monolithic
IMO The key point is how will be organize the OFBiz-extras and how it
will be easy for a end user to download and install a solution (= OFBiz
kernel + list of plug-in)
>
> [my Antwebsystems CEO hat on]
> From a commercialization point of view please remove as much as
> possible.....
> [my Apache PMC member hat on]
> Only remove the component/functions which are not maintained.
clarify what is maintained by whom, and who is using what and sometime
the maturity level of a feature (dev, V0, stable , ...)
>
> Regards,
> Hans Bakker
> *Proud Apache OFBiz PMC member* and yes also CEO Antwebsystems Co.Ltd.
>
>
Re: Is ofbiz going the sugarcrm, magento route? (essential extra's are commercial?)
Posted by "Markus M. May" <mm...@javafreedom.org>.
Hello,
I followed the discussion "Lose Weight Program for OFBiz" on the
development Mailing List with great interest. IIRC the ecommerce
application is one of the only applications not going to be moved to
extra. I have to admit that I am mainly interested in this application,
therefor I could be very biased ;-)
Anyway, the "cleanup" of the whole ofbiz system is IMHO discussed in a
sensible and structured way, and I do really appreciate the time and
effort the community puts into this. The diet of ofbiz seems to be
needed for the next steps of the ofbiz future, and therefor I do fully
support these steps. I am already contributing some things (see Jira
Tickets) and I am definitly going to do so in the future. I do hope that
the system stays stable and will "grow" in the future to become the
"main ERP" (well for me the "main eCommerce")-System of the Open Source
Java world.
R,
Markus
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:00:04 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote:
> (I also copied the user list because users are heavily impacted here.
> Users please read the development forum at http://www.ofbiz.info)
>
> Hi Everybody interested in the future of ofbiz,
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> *i am very concerned with the current route which is proposed by
> Jacopo in the development mailing list: "Lose Weight Program for
> OFBiz"*
>
> Why?
>
> Have only a minimal core ERP with minimal functionality, anything
> extra is moved to either:
> 1. *Apache extras* (http://www.apache-extras.com) which is just a url
> link menu into "Google projects" This will not be maintained by the
> Apache OFBiz committers and only outside the Apache environment.
> 2. *attic* (abandoned=deleted)
>
> Pushing out complete components and functions like for example all
> components in the specialized directory such as e-commerce, project
> manager, asset manager and others and also Birt (Reporting)
> integration out of the OFBiz core system will actually mean:
> components will be abandoned even when stored in "apache extra's" and
> will be picked up by commercial companies like mine (Antwebsystems)
> and others and will promote them as commercial add-ons for a fee.
>
> [my Antwebsystems CEO hat on]
> Actually we (AntWebsystems) already started the process a couple of
> months ago, we have internal chat/live chat(see our website),
> twitter,
> sitemap, saas/tenant extension, shindig/igoogle integration, task
> manager and more because a number of committers objected that we
> added
> more functions, so we stopped contributing major functions.
>
> [my Apache PMC member hat on]
> This can now happen with anything that will be removed from the core
> system. There are many articles about the commercialization of open
> source products on the internet, examples are Sugercrm and Magento
> and
> OFBiz will be the next one:
>
> *In the future, a reasonable OFBiz system cannot be be run without
> commercial extra's!
> *
> Please keep this in mind if you react on the proposal "Lose Weight
> Program for OFBiz": do not agree too easily.
>
> [my Antwebsystems CEO hat on]
> From a commercialization point of view please remove as much as
> possible.....
> [my Apache PMC member hat on]
> Only remove the component/functions which are not maintained.
>
> Regards,
> Hans Bakker
> *Proud Apache OFBiz PMC member* and yes also CEO Antwebsystems
> Co.Ltd.
Re: Is ofbiz going the sugarcrm, magento route? (essential extra's
are commercial?)
Posted by Mansour Al Akeel <ma...@gmail.com>.
As of now, anyone can disable components, and enable them as an extra
commercial plugins. An if they are downloaded separately, it doesn't
add to their commercial value. I am not sure if I missing something
here.
For example, at this point, anyone can disable Birt component, and say
"Hey, I can add for you a reporting tools for $XXXX extra".
The work involved will be just enabling it. IMHO there's no way to
control the honesty of any commercial organization except competition
and keeping it open source.
Jacopo's proposal is good for the health of the product. I believe
having a smaller code base will encourage users to contribute more,
and enforce a little bit more control over what goes into the SVN. If
there's unmaintained code, then it can be marked unmaintained by
moving it out, and eventually, someone party will pick it and maintain
it as an open source or commercial, depending on their business model.
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Hans Bakker <h....@antwebsystems.com> wrote:
> (I also copied the user list because users are heavily impacted here. Users
> please read the development forum at http://www.ofbiz.info)
>
> Hi Everybody interested in the future of ofbiz,
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> *i am very concerned with the current route which is proposed by Jacopo in
> the development mailing list: "Lose Weight Program for OFBiz"*
>
> Why?
>
> Have only a minimal core ERP with minimal functionality, anything extra is
> moved to either:
> 1. *Apache extras* (http://www.apache-extras.com) which is just a url link
> menu into "Google projects" This will not be maintained by the Apache OFBiz
> committers and only outside the Apache environment.
> 2. *attic* (abandoned=deleted)
>
> Pushing out complete components and functions like for example all
> components in the specialized directory such as e-commerce, project manager,
> asset manager and others and also Birt (Reporting) integration out of the
> OFBiz core system will actually mean: components will be abandoned even when
> stored in "apache extra's" and will be picked up by commercial companies
> like mine (Antwebsystems) and others and will promote them as commercial
> add-ons for a fee.
>
> [my Antwebsystems CEO hat on]
> Actually we (AntWebsystems) already started the process a couple of months
> ago, we have internal chat/live chat(see our website), twitter, sitemap,
> saas/tenant extension, shindig/igoogle integration, task manager and more
> because a number of committers objected that we added more functions, so we
> stopped contributing major functions.
>
> [my Apache PMC member hat on]
> This can now happen with anything that will be removed from the core system.
> There are many articles about the commercialization of open source products
> on the internet, examples are Sugercrm and Magento and OFBiz will be the
> next one:
>
> *In the future, a reasonable OFBiz system cannot be be run without
> commercial extra's!
> *
> Please keep this in mind if you react on the proposal "Lose Weight Program
> for OFBiz": do not agree too easily.
>
> [my Antwebsystems CEO hat on]
> From a commercialization point of view please remove as much as
> possible.....
> [my Apache PMC member hat on]
> Only remove the component/functions which are not maintained.
>
> Regards,
> Hans Bakker
> *Proud Apache OFBiz PMC member* and yes also CEO Antwebsystems Co.Ltd.
>
Re: Is ofbiz going the sugarcrm, magento route? (essential extra's are commercial?)
Posted by Vikas Mayur <vi...@gmail.com>.
I do not see any issues if the existing projects that are slated to be moved to Extras adhere to the ASF 2.0 license but as I see it further I don't see any issues either if the license of any project is changed in future. I think it would be good for the project overall and while its not necessary that there would be just one company/maintainer of the code for any particular project, I believe anyone (individual or company) can use the base project (project at the moment with ASF 2.0) and enhance it, form a community in itself. At a point of time there could be a number of different flavors of the same project with different user groups and maintainer (individual or company). Its like linux OS distributed in different flavors, right? The quality of these project will definitely improve with a stiff competition from similar projects and the end user eventually have more options to find a right project for himself.
New projects of course can have ASF 2.0 or any other commercial license.
On Mar 21, 2012, at 6:30 PM, Hans Bakker wrote:
> (I also copied the user list because users are heavily impacted here. Users please read the development forum at http://www.ofbiz.info)
>
> Hi Everybody interested in the future of ofbiz,
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> *i am very concerned with the current route which is proposed by Jacopo in the development mailing list: "Lose Weight Program for OFBiz"*
>
> Why?
>
> Have only a minimal core ERP with minimal functionality, anything extra is moved to either:
> 1. *Apache extras* (http://www.apache-extras.com) which is just a url link menu into "Google projects" This will not be maintained by the Apache OFBiz committers and only outside the Apache environment.
> 2. *attic* (abandoned=deleted)
>
> Pushing out complete components and functions like for example all components in the specialized directory such as e-commerce, project manager, asset manager and others and also Birt (Reporting) integration out of the OFBiz core system will actually mean: components will be abandoned even when stored in "apache extra's" and will be picked up by commercial companies like mine (Antwebsystems) and others and will promote them as commercial add-ons for a fee.
As far I see the responses, devs are interested in keeping the e-commerce under the specialpurpose directory. Did I mis-read?
>
> [my Antwebsystems CEO hat on]
> Actually we (AntWebsystems) already started the process a couple of months ago, we have internal chat/live chat(see our website), twitter, sitemap, saas/tenant extension, shindig/igoogle integration, task manager and more because a number of committers objected that we added more functions, so we stopped contributing major functions.
Not to mention that any such projects developed by AntWebsystems (I believe they are commercial right now) could be the next big projects in Extras and might attract a large number of users for contributions too. It may be easier for the customers to adopt to these projects if you decide to distribute it with ASF 2.0 :)
>
> [my Apache PMC member hat on]
> This can now happen with anything that will be removed from the core system. There are many articles about the commercialization of open source products on the internet, examples are Sugercrm and Magento and OFBiz will be the next one:
>
> *In the future, a reasonable OFBiz system cannot be be run without commercial extra's!
> *
> Please keep this in mind if you react on the proposal "Lose Weight Program for OFBiz": do not agree too easily.
I am sure that this will help in large adoption of the project OFBiz.
Regards
Vikas
>
> [my Antwebsystems CEO hat on]
> From a commercialization point of view please remove as much as possible.....
> [my Apache PMC member hat on]
> Only remove the component/functions which are not maintained.
>
> Regards,
> Hans Bakker
> *Proud Apache OFBiz PMC member* and yes also CEO Antwebsystems Co.Ltd.
>