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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Berin Loritsch <bl...@d-haven.org> on 2004/06/09 17:53:43 UTC
>*Cough*< Download Size >*Cough*<
Is there any reason the Cocoon source distribution has to be about the
same size download as a current JVM? That's a lot to download no matter
how you put it.
I mean I just got DSL, and the fastest I can suck it down in 90KB/s and
weighing in at 45MB download that takes a little over 8.5 minutes.
I can only imagine what it would be like if I was still on dial-up: over
2 hours with a good connection.
To tell the truth that is a little intimidating to me. It almost seems
as if there is 45MB of stuff to understand before I can be productive
(I know this is not the case, but consider it from a user's
perspective).
Is there anything that can be done to minimize this at all?
--
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to
build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to
produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
- Rich Cook
Re: >*Cough*< Download Size >*Cough*<
Posted by Ralph Goers <Ra...@dslextreme.com>.
Just for grins I ran a du on Cocoon-2.1.5. These numbers don't
necessarily correspond to what is in the zip/gzipped tar as source should
compress better than jars, but this is what I got. To summarize, out of
95MB 75MB is source and 61MB is in blocks. About 10% (9MB) is scratchpad.
The lib directory takes up abuot 12MB. I'd expect that to be pretty much
the same inside the zip/gzipped tar, so the vast majority of the rest is
probably the compressed source.
One way to reduce the size of the download is to remove the dependent
jars. This has been discussed here many, many times. However, I'm
wondering how much scratchpad stuff should disappear. I haven't looked at
what is in it, but shouldn't there be some rule about how long something
can stay there?
For the root directory I got:
8 blocks.properties
4 build.bat
8 build.properties
4 build.sh
4 build.xml
16 cli.xconf
8 cocoon.bat
8 cocoon.sh
4 CREDITS.txt
4 DESKTOP.INI
8 forrest.properties
40 gump.xml
8 INSTALL.txt
12 KEYS
804 legal
12752 lib
4 README.txt
75652 src
112 status.xml
3500 tools
I then ran it again on the src subdirectory:
61768 blocks
16 confpatch
532 deprecated
4916 documentation
4884 java
20 mocks
112 resources
100 samples
520 test
2780 webapp
Finally, I ran it against blocks:
188 apples
176 asciiart
328 authentication-fw
1720 axis
2788 batik
900 bsf
824 chaperon
492 cron
1056 databases
7040 deli
156 eventcache
1568 fop
3708 forms
360 hsqldb
260 html
860 itext
376 javaflow
212 jfor
172 jms
180 jsp
176 linkrewriter
884 linotype
552 lucene
948 mail
472 midi
156 naming
1832 ojb
56 paranoid
1024 petstore
56 php
1504 poi
2920 portal
896 portal-fw
200 profiler
268 proxy
148 python
236 qdox
360 repository
9804 scratchpad
5364 serializers
376 session-fw
1508 slide
448 slop
320 stx
192 swf
320 taglib
384 tour
460 velocity
212 web3
992 webdav
3512 woody
708 xmldb
1112 xsp
Berin Loritsch said:
> Tony Collen wrote:
>
>> Steven Noels wrote:
>>
>>> On 09 Jun 2004, at 18:27, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>>>
>>>> Berin Loritsch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is there any reason the Cocoon source distribution has to be about
>>>>> the
>>>>> same size download as a current JVM?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't worry, we already discussed this matter with Carsten [1] and
>>>> decided that next version of Cocoon will come with bundled JDK.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We'll add jar'ed sources of the JDK with that as well, don't we?
>>
>>
>> We might as well include some operating system source while we're at it
>> :D
>
> Which one? You'll have to include source code for Linux, *BSD, MacOSX,
> Windows, etc.--you know just to make sure the sockets are working
> properly.
>
> Of course by this time the download will be in the GB region and
> will completely be impractical to all who might want to use it.
Re: >*Cough*< Download Size >*Cough*<
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@reverycodes.com>.
Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Tony Collen wrote:
>
>> Steven Noels wrote:
>>
>>> On 09 Jun 2004, at 18:27, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>>>
>>>> Berin Loritsch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is there any reason the Cocoon source distribution has to be about
>>>>> the
>>>>> same size download as a current JVM?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't worry, we already discussed this matter with Carsten [1] and
>>>> decided that next version of Cocoon will come with bundled JDK.
>>>
>>>
>>> We'll add jar'ed sources of the JDK with that as well, don't we?
>>
>>
>> We might as well include some operating system source while we're at
>> it :D
>
>
> Which one? You'll have to include source code for Linux, *BSD, MacOSX,
> Windows, etc.--you know just to make sure the sockets are working
> properly.
Hey, hold on! We can't include Linux, as it is GPLed, so the only choice
is *BSD!
Vadim
Re: >*Cough*< Download Size >*Cough*<
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@d-haven.org>.
Tony Collen wrote:
> Steven Noels wrote:
>
>> On 09 Jun 2004, at 18:27, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>>
>>> Berin Loritsch wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is there any reason the Cocoon source distribution has to be about the
>>>> same size download as a current JVM?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't worry, we already discussed this matter with Carsten [1] and
>>> decided that next version of Cocoon will come with bundled JDK.
>>
>>
>>
>> We'll add jar'ed sources of the JDK with that as well, don't we?
>
>
> We might as well include some operating system source while we're at it :D
Which one? You'll have to include source code for Linux, *BSD, MacOSX,
Windows, etc.--you know just to make sure the sockets are working
properly.
Of course by this time the download will be in the GB region and
will completely be impractical to all who might want to use it.
--
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to
build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to
produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
- Rich Cook
Re: >*Cough*< Download Size >*Cough*<
Posted by Tony Collen <co...@umn.edu>.
Steven Noels wrote:
> On 09 Jun 2004, at 18:27, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
>
>> Berin Loritsch wrote:
>>
>>> Is there any reason the Cocoon source distribution has to be about the
>>> same size download as a current JVM?
>>
>>
>>
>> Don't worry, we already discussed this matter with Carsten [1] and
>> decided that next version of Cocoon will come with bundled JDK.
>
>
> We'll add jar'ed sources of the JDK with that as well, don't we?
We might as well include some operating system source while we're at it :D
Tony
Re: >*Cough*< Download Size >*Cough*<
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
On 09 Jun 2004, at 18:27, Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> Berin Loritsch wrote:
>
>> Is there any reason the Cocoon source distribution has to be about the
>> same size download as a current JVM?
>
>
> Don't worry, we already discussed this matter with Carsten [1] and
> decided that next version of Cocoon will come with bundled JDK.
We'll add jar'ed sources of the JDK with that as well, don't we?
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source Java & XML An Orixo Member
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: >*Cough*< Download Size >*Cough*<
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@d-haven.org>.
Vadim Gritsenko wrote:
> Berin Loritsch wrote:
>
>> Is there any reason the Cocoon source distribution has to be about the
>> same size download as a current JVM?
>
>
>
> Don't worry, we already discussed this matter with Carsten [1] and
> decided that next version of Cocoon will come with bundled JDK.
>
>
> ;-)
>
> Vadim
>
> [1] http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=26456
You are a truly sick man. ;P
--
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to
build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to
produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
- Rich Cook
Re: >*Cough*< Download Size >*Cough*<
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@reverycodes.com>.
Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Is there any reason the Cocoon source distribution has to be about the
> same size download as a current JVM?
Don't worry, we already discussed this matter with Carsten [1] and
decided that next version of Cocoon will come with bundled JDK.
;-)
Vadim
[1] http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=26456
Re: >*Cough*< Download Size >*Cough*<
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@d-haven.org>.
Tony Collen wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure that when "Real Blocks" [1] are functional, you'll only
> have to download the blocks you want, so a default core Cocoon will
> generally be all you get. Of course, who knows how far off Real Blocks
> are :)
>
> [1] http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=GT2003RealBlocks
>
> Tony
What about having all the blocks in JAR or ZIP file format on the server
with an ANT task to download and determine what we need. That way only
the blocks we want are still downloaded, and we don't necessarily change
the archive structure. The thought being that the ANT task would
download and unzip the source block in the proper location in the
archive.
--
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to
build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to
produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
- Rich Cook
Re: >*Cough*< Download Size >*Cough*<
Posted by Tony Collen <co...@umn.edu>.
Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Is there any reason the Cocoon source distribution has to be about the
> same size download as a current JVM? That's a lot to download no matter
> how you put it.
>
> I mean I just got DSL, and the fastest I can suck it down in 90KB/s and
> weighing in at 45MB download that takes a little over 8.5 minutes.
>
> I can only imagine what it would be like if I was still on dial-up: over
> 2 hours with a good connection.
>
> To tell the truth that is a little intimidating to me. It almost seems
> as if there is 45MB of stuff to understand before I can be productive
> (I know this is not the case, but consider it from a user's
> perspective).
>
> Is there anything that can be done to minimize this at all?
>
I'm pretty sure that when "Real Blocks" [1] are functional, you'll only have to download the blocks
you want, so a default core Cocoon will generally be all you get. Of course, who knows how far off
Real Blocks are :)
[1] http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=GT2003RealBlocks
Tony