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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Kazunari Hirano <kh...@gmail.com> on 2011/06/29 13:46:48 UTC
Build-Translate-Plan
Hi all,
As we see Plan Matrix,
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Project+Planning
Build-Translate-Plan will be one of our first jobs :)
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-Translate-Plan
Can you read my comments on the page above?
Can I delete the previous list and start the new list?
Thanks,
khirano
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
Posted by "Marcus (OOo)" <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 06/29/2011 04:21 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Greg Stein<gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 09:11, Marcus (OOo)<ma...@wtnet.de> wrote:
>>> Right. Maybe we should split this into 2 parts:
>>>
>>> 1. The very first build(s) to handle fixes for build breaker:
>>> IMHO here it should be enough to have en-US only
>>
>> For better or worse, the ASF is US-centric, so this makes sense.
>>
>
> For a smoke test I'd still do at least one other language. One
> possible error is that a programmer hard codes a UI string rather than
> using a resource file. If we just test builds with the the English
> resources we would not catch this.
Sure, should be easy to build another package frequently. But how to
make sure that you hit the needed language? ;-)
We have done this, too, to see if the packaging besides en-US is OK in
general after the build was done. But not to test L10N.
> But since the translation files tend to lag the builds, I wonder if
> some form of "pseudo-translation" would work just as well?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudolocalization
>
> Is this something that OOo already does?
Ivo, do you know about these kind of testing? Is this done with the Key
ID builds or was this another purpose?
Marcus
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
Posted by Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>.
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 09:11, Marcus (OOo) <ma...@wtnet.de> wrote:
>> Right. Maybe we should split this into 2 parts:
>>
>> 1. The very first build(s) to handle fixes for build breaker:
>> IMHO here it should be enough to have en-US only
>
> For better or worse, the ASF is US-centric, so this makes sense.
>
For a smoke test I'd still do at least one other language. One
possible error is that a programmer hard codes a UI string rather than
using a resource file. If we just test builds with the the English
resources we would not catch this.
But since the translation files tend to lag the builds, I wonder if
some form of "pseudo-translation" would work just as well?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudolocalization
Is this something that OOo already does?
>> 2. If this is done the next builds can be also used for looking into the
>> localizations.
>>
>> We had the following set of languages for our developer milestones (DEV300
>> and OOO340):
>> - English (US) as master language
>> - German due to historical reasons and we had the most testers here
>> - French for the same reason IMHO and long strings
>> - Japanese due the CJK characters and to test RTL writing
>> - Russian due to Cyrillic charachters
>> - Arabic due to the characters and to test bidi writing
>
> I doubt that we'll see the same number of people step up, that OOo saw
> (say) a year ago. With the stagnation during the Sun/Oracle
> acquisition, with the LibreOffice initiative, and with the recent move
> to the ASF, the entire ecosystem is kind of separated. I believe it
> will take some time for the system to settle down and for people to
> decide where they would like to contribute.
>
> It would be great to place the above onto our wiki as "nice to have".
> But I believe it will take us a while to reach it.
>
>> So, we could stick with this (or maybe exchange the one or other language if
>> is no volunteer to test at the moments, maybe French -->
>> Brazilian-Portuguese ?).
>
> Not sure about this. Again, I think we'd need to look at what help
> arrives. Brazilians are awesome in the Free software space. It is
> really a national thing.
>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> 3. Tests for release builds are out of scope at the moment, but more
>> language tests the better.
>>
>> BTW:
>> We have also smoke tests. If I'm not wrong these should be included in the
>> source code.
>
> Yes. Please see that any l10n tests get into the main code base!
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:03, Marcus (OOo) <ma...@wtnet.de> wrote:
> Am 06/29/2011 04:12 PM, schrieb Greg Stein:
>...
>> It would be great to place the above onto our wiki as "nice to have".
>> But I believe it will take us a while to reach it.
>
> Done
Perfect. Thanks!
Cheers,
-g
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
Posted by "Marcus (OOo)" <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 06/29/2011 04:12 PM, schrieb Greg Stein:
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 09:11, Marcus (OOo)<ma...@wtnet.de> wrote:
>> Right. Maybe we should split this into 2 parts:
>>
>> 1. The very first build(s) to handle fixes for build breaker:
>> IMHO here it should be enough to have en-US only
>
> For better or worse, the ASF is US-centric, so this makes sense.
I thought about en-US as it's the master language in the source, but anyway.
>> 2. If this is done the next builds can be also used for looking into the
>> localizations.
>>
>> We had the following set of languages for our developer milestones (DEV300
>> and OOO340):
>> - English (US) as master language
>> - German due to historical reasons and we had the most testers here
>> - French for the same reason IMHO and long strings
>> - Japanese due the CJK characters and to test RTL writing
>> - Russian due to Cyrillic charachters
>> - Arabic due to the characters and to test bidi writing
>
> I doubt that we'll see the same number of people step up, that OOo saw
> (say) a year ago. With the stagnation during the Sun/Oracle
> acquisition, with the LibreOffice initiative, and with the recent move
> to the ASF, the entire ecosystem is kind of separated. I believe it
> will take some time for the system to settle down and for people to
> decide where they would like to contribute.
Sure, it was just an example and why these languages were choosen. Of
course we have to look at the new contributors and then decide which
languages to build frequently for testing.
> It would be great to place the above onto our wiki as "nice to have".
> But I believe it will take us a while to reach it.
Done
Marcus
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 09:11, Marcus (OOo) <ma...@wtnet.de> wrote:
> Right. Maybe we should split this into 2 parts:
>
> 1. The very first build(s) to handle fixes for build breaker:
> IMHO here it should be enough to have en-US only
For better or worse, the ASF is US-centric, so this makes sense.
> 2. If this is done the next builds can be also used for looking into the
> localizations.
>
> We had the following set of languages for our developer milestones (DEV300
> and OOO340):
> - English (US) as master language
> - German due to historical reasons and we had the most testers here
> - French for the same reason IMHO and long strings
> - Japanese due the CJK characters and to test RTL writing
> - Russian due to Cyrillic charachters
> - Arabic due to the characters and to test bidi writing
I doubt that we'll see the same number of people step up, that OOo saw
(say) a year ago. With the stagnation during the Sun/Oracle
acquisition, with the LibreOffice initiative, and with the recent move
to the ASF, the entire ecosystem is kind of separated. I believe it
will take some time for the system to settle down and for people to
decide where they would like to contribute.
It would be great to place the above onto our wiki as "nice to have".
But I believe it will take us a while to reach it.
> So, we could stick with this (or maybe exchange the one or other language if
> is no volunteer to test at the moments, maybe French -->
> Brazilian-Portuguese ?).
Not sure about this. Again, I think we'd need to look at what help
arrives. Brazilians are awesome in the Free software space. It is
really a national thing.
>
> ---
>
> 3. Tests for release builds are out of scope at the moment, but more
> language tests the better.
>
> BTW:
> We have also smoke tests. If I'm not wrong these should be included in the
> source code.
Yes. Please see that any l10n tests get into the main code base!
Cheers,
-g
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
Posted by Jomar Silva <ho...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org> wrote:
> Spanish would be good. I did submit a petition a few months back for this.
> Portuguese is a split language between portugal and brasil. Althought most
> of the romance language shared the same locales issues like long strings.
In the past we used in Brazil the Portuguese (from Portugal) version
of the translation, and it wasn't a 'happy experience' to our users,
because some key works (as File) are transtaled using different words
in Brazil (Arquivo) and Portugal (Ficheiro).
All Portuguese (also speaken on some African and Asian countries) are
now sharing the same orthography, but we still having different words
to express the same things.
I hope that in a few days I may present more about what we may do with
Brazilian Portuguese, but yes, we would like to have a pt-br version
too.
Sorry for asking this later, but we're on the first day of FISL
(www.fisl.org.br), a huge FLOSS event in Brazil. There will be a talk
about Apache OpenOffice here on Saturday.
Best,
Jomar
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>.
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:11 AM, Marcus (OOo) <ma...@wtnet.de> wrote:
> Right. Maybe we should split this into 2 parts:
>
> 1. The very first build(s) to handle fixes for build breaker:
> IMHO here it should be enough to have en-US only
>
> 2. If this is done the next builds can be also used for looking into the
> localizations.
>
> We had the following set of languages for our developer milestones (DEV300
> and OOO340):
> - English (US) as master language
> - German due to historical reasons and we had the most testers here
> - French for the same reason IMHO and long strings
> - Japanese due the CJK characters and to test RTL writing
> - Russian due to Cyrillic charachters
> - Arabic due to the characters and to test bidi writing
>
> So, we could stick with this (or maybe exchange the one or other language
> if is no volunteer to test at the moments, maybe French -->
> Brazilian-Portuguese ?).
>
Spanish would be good. I did submit a petition a few months back for this.
Portuguese is a split language between portugal and brasil. Althought most
of the romance language shared the same locales issues like long strings.
>
> ---
>
> 3. Tests for release builds are out of scope at the moment, but more
> language tests the better.
>
> BTW:
> We have also smoke tests. If I'm not wrong these should be included in the
> source code.
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
> Am 06/29/2011 02:35 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
>
>> It might be useful to make a distinction between two things:
>>
>> 1) What is needed to have a successful first build?
>> (
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-Translate-Plan
>> )
>>
>> 2) What is needed to have a successful first release?
>> (
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Release-Translate-Plan
>> )
>>
>> For a first build, I think our main task will be to ensure that we
>> didn't break anything by moving over from Oracle's servers to Apache
>> servers. We want to define a simple set of tests that could be done
>> after the initial move. But we would also want to run these tests on
>> a regular basis,even daily. At work we call these "smoke tests". I
>> don't know what the equivalent name is for OOo.
>>
>> So what is the easiest test that we can do to verify that localization
>> is not broken in OOo?
>>
>>
>> For a public release, this will be much more complicated.
>>
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Marcus (OOo)<ma...@wtnet.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> IMHO you can do such little changes without to ask.
>>>
>>> We should extended the languages to Russian (due to Cyrillic letters) and
>>> Portuguese resp. Brazilian-Portuguese (due to long compared to other
>>> languages).
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 06/29/2011 01:46 PM, schrieb Kazunari Hirano:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> As we see Plan Matrix,
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Project+Planning
>>>> Build-Translate-Plan will be one of our first jobs :)
>>>>
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-Translate-Plan
>>>> Can you read my comments on the page above?
>>>>
>>>> Can I delete the previous list and start the new list?
>>>>
>>>
--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
Posted by "Marcus (OOo)" <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Right. Maybe we should split this into 2 parts:
1. The very first build(s) to handle fixes for build breaker:
IMHO here it should be enough to have en-US only
2. If this is done the next builds can be also used for looking into the
localizations.
We had the following set of languages for our developer milestones
(DEV300 and OOO340):
- English (US) as master language
- German due to historical reasons and we had the most testers here
- French for the same reason IMHO and long strings
- Japanese due the CJK characters and to test RTL writing
- Russian due to Cyrillic charachters
- Arabic due to the characters and to test bidi writing
So, we could stick with this (or maybe exchange the one or other
language if is no volunteer to test at the moments, maybe French -->
Brazilian-Portuguese ?).
---
3. Tests for release builds are out of scope at the moment, but more
language tests the better.
BTW:
We have also smoke tests. If I'm not wrong these should be included in
the source code.
Marcus
Am 06/29/2011 02:35 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
> It might be useful to make a distinction between two things:
>
> 1) What is needed to have a successful first build?
> (https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-Translate-Plan)
>
> 2) What is needed to have a successful first release?
> (https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Release-Translate-Plan)
>
> For a first build, I think our main task will be to ensure that we
> didn't break anything by moving over from Oracle's servers to Apache
> servers. We want to define a simple set of tests that could be done
> after the initial move. But we would also want to run these tests on
> a regular basis,even daily. At work we call these "smoke tests". I
> don't know what the equivalent name is for OOo.
>
> So what is the easiest test that we can do to verify that localization
> is not broken in OOo?
>
>
> For a public release, this will be much more complicated.
>
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Marcus (OOo)<ma...@wtnet.de> wrote:
>> IMHO you can do such little changes without to ask.
>>
>> We should extended the languages to Russian (due to Cyrillic letters) and
>> Portuguese resp. Brazilian-Portuguese (due to long compared to other
>> languages).
>>
>> Marcus
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 06/29/2011 01:46 PM, schrieb Kazunari Hirano:
>>>
>>> As we see Plan Matrix,
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Project+Planning
>>> Build-Translate-Plan will be one of our first jobs :)
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-Translate-Plan
>>> Can you read my comments on the page above?
>>>
>>> Can I delete the previous list and start the new list?
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
Posted by Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>.
It might be useful to make a distinction between two things:
1) What is needed to have a successful first build?
(https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-Translate-Plan)
2) What is needed to have a successful first release?
(https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Release-Translate-Plan)
For a first build, I think our main task will be to ensure that we
didn't break anything by moving over from Oracle's servers to Apache
servers. We want to define a simple set of tests that could be done
after the initial move. But we would also want to run these tests on
a regular basis,even daily. At work we call these "smoke tests". I
don't know what the equivalent name is for OOo.
So what is the easiest test that we can do to verify that localization
is not broken in OOo?
For a public release, this will be much more complicated.
-Rob
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Marcus (OOo) <ma...@wtnet.de> wrote:
> IMHO you can do such little changes without to ask.
>
> We should extended the languages to Russian (due to Cyrillic letters) and
> Portuguese resp. Brazilian-Portuguese (due to long compared to other
> languages).
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
> Am 06/29/2011 01:46 PM, schrieb Kazunari Hirano:
>>
>> As we see Plan Matrix,
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Project+Planning
>> Build-Translate-Plan will be one of our first jobs :)
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-Translate-Plan
>> Can you read my comments on the page above?
>>
>> Can I delete the previous list and start the new list?
>
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
Posted by "Marcus (OOo)" <ma...@wtnet.de>.
IMHO you can do such little changes without to ask.
We should extended the languages to Russian (due to Cyrillic letters)
and Portuguese resp. Brazilian-Portuguese (due to long compared to other
languages).
Marcus
Am 06/29/2011 01:46 PM, schrieb Kazunari Hirano:
> As we see Plan Matrix,
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Project+Planning
> Build-Translate-Plan will be one of our first jobs :)
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-Translate-Plan
> Can you read my comments on the page above?
>
> Can I delete the previous list and start the new list?
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
Posted by Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>.
Yes, you can delete the items I had on the list.
-Rob
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 7:46 AM, Kazunari Hirano <kh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As we see Plan Matrix,
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Project+Planning
> Build-Translate-Plan will be one of our first jobs :)
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-Translate-Plan
> Can you read my comments on the page above?
>
> Can I delete the previous list and start the new list?
>
> Thanks,
> khirano
>