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Posted to docs-dev@perl.apache.org by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org> on 2002/04/23 16:33:55 UTC
redoing the shortcuts feature
I was thinking that we need more shortcuts, and we need two groups: 1.x
and 2.x. Which means that the shortcuts menu will be too big. I'm
thinking to move the shortcuts into a dedicated document and link to it
from the main menu. The drawback is that one will need to click twice to
get to the wanted place (instead of once), though we will be able to
provide more shortcuts and more nicerly organized.
I'm also thinking of generating an automatic sitemap.
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: redoing the shortcuts feature
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Per Einar Ellefsen wrote:
> At 19:11 23.04.2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>> Per Einar Ellefsen wrote:
>>
>>> At 16:33 23.04.2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was thinking that we need more shortcuts, and we need two groups:
>>>> 1.x and 2.x. Which means that the shortcuts menu will be too big.
>>>> I'm thinking to move the shortcuts into a dedicated document and
>>>> link to it from the main menu. The drawback is that one will need to
>>>> click twice to get to the wanted place (instead of once), though we
>>>> will be able to provide more shortcuts and more nicerly organized.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think we need to keep it where it is. It's fast an efficient. On
>>> the other hand, you don't need to have too many items.
>>> Downloads
>>
>>
>> Right, I forgot this one. And now you need two of these, or people
>> will do the wrong things.
>
>
> No, they can choose mod_perl 1 or 2 for themselves on the Downloads
> page. If they can't do *that*, they need a *lot* of help, more than we
> can give them. We can also add a paragraph explaining the difference
> between 1.x and 2.x on the Downloads page.
You will be surprised.
In any case we have the 'Download' entry in the menu already. What's the
added value of having it in the shortcuts?
>> install 2.x (getwet for 2.x)
>
>
> I think that can be as a link from the Download page.
why? You provide shortcuts, why in the world should I expect to find the
install info on the download page.
>> reporting problems 2.x
>
>
> This can be merged with 1.x report I think.
It's already hard enough, we don't want to make it harder.
See, because of the unnecessary restraints that you try to impose, the
original intention is going to be crippled in this way. And a pity.
>>> Moving them to a separate beats the point of having shortcuts.
>>
>>
>> Well I'll say it again: These "shortcuts" aren't to make you click less,
>> they are to get to the final target with minimal thinking and wondering.
>> I've counted at least 7 items and there will be more, believe me.
>> That's already not shortcuts since you have to scroll down to get to
>> them. If you need to scroll-down you can click to get to the much
>> better page.
>
>
> The shortcuts are a powerful feature, and it would be good to have a
> minimalistic list for "real shortcuts". Can't we just separate our ideas
> into 2 sets: one for the menu 8with ery few items), and one shortcut
> page like you're talking about?
That will only confuse people. If you want just a few items put them
into the main menu after e.g. -------- separator, no need for a whole
new box.
*******************
* perl.apache.org *
*******************
* What's mod_perl *
* ... *
* ... *
* Jobs *
* --------------- *
* 1.x guide *
* mail archive *
* more shortcuts *
*******************
*******************
* search *
*******************
>> Moreover the IMHO shortcuts are mostly useful when you are at the root
>> of the site, when go to perl.apache.org to read something and leave.
>> Which means that they are redundant on all other pages, which means
>> that they shouldn't be inlined in the menu. That's me thinking of course.
>
>
> That's true, but that means they need to stay on the first page :)
Or on some other page, reached from the menu.
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: redoing the shortcuts feature
Posted by Per Einar Ellefsen <pe...@skynet.be>.
At 19:11 23.04.2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
>Per Einar Ellefsen wrote:
>>At 16:33 23.04.2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
>>
>>>I was thinking that we need more shortcuts, and we need two groups: 1.x
>>>and 2.x. Which means that the shortcuts menu will be too big. I'm
>>>thinking to move the shortcuts into a dedicated document and link to it
>>>from the main menu. The drawback is that one will need to click twice to
>>>get to the wanted place (instead of once), though we will be able to
>>>provide more shortcuts and more nicerly organized.
>>
>>I think we need to keep it where it is. It's fast an efficient. On the
>>other hand, you don't need to have too many items.
>>Downloads
>
>Right, I forgot this one. And now you need two of these, or people will do
>the wrong things.
No, they can choose mod_perl 1 or 2 for themselves on the Downloads page.
If they can't do *that*, they need a *lot* of help, more than we can give
them. We can also add a paragraph explaining the difference between 1.x and
2.x on the Downloads page.
>>1.x Docs
>>2.x Docs
>>Mailing list archives
>>Is enough.
>
>Unfortunately it's not enough. Sending to Docs is not helping at all. You
>can just click on docs entry in the menu.
>
>And nobody wants to repeat again and again to users how to report
>problems. And it's different with 1.x and 2.x
>
>Download 1.x
>Download 2.x
>> 1 Download should be enough (see above)
>mail archive
yes
>guide 1.x
Hmm, maybe, yes.
>reporting problems 1.x (aka SUPPORT)
ok
>install 2.x (getwet for 2.x)
I think that can be as a link from the Download page.
>reporting problems 2.x
This can be merged with 1.x report I think.
>>Moving them to a separate beats the point of having shortcuts.
>
>Well I'll say it again: These "shortcuts" aren't to make you click less,
>they are to get to the final target with minimal thinking and wondering.
>I've counted at least 7 items and there will be more, believe me. That's
>already not shortcuts since you have to scroll down to get to them. If you
>need to scroll-down you can click to get to the much better page.
The shortcuts are a powerful feature, and it would be good to have a
minimalistic list for "real shortcuts". Can't we just separate our ideas
into 2 sets: one for the menu 8with ery few items), and one shortcut page
like you're talking about?
>Moreover the IMHO shortcuts are mostly useful when you are at the root of
>the site, when go to perl.apache.org to read something and leave. Which
>means that they are redundant on all other pages, which means that they
>shouldn't be inlined in the menu. That's me thinking of course.
That's true, but that means they need to stay on the first page :)
--
Per Einar Ellefsen
per.einar@skynet.be
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Re: redoing the shortcuts feature
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Bill Moseley wrote:
> At 01:11 AM 04/24/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>And nobody wants to repeat again and again to users how to report
>>problems. And it's different with 1.x and 2.x
>
>
> Why don't we have a CGI form on the web site? (Oops, I just got myself
> more work....)
Javascript? :)
And most likely this won't work since the pulldown menu will be
restricted by the width of the left column.
>>Download 1.x
>>Download 2.x
>
>
> I don't think that needs to be a quick link. People don't download every
> time they go to the site. Also, there needs to be discussion on picking
> the correct version. Seems like it's better to take people to the main
> download area always.
fine
>>mail archive
>>guide 1.x
>>reporting problems 1.x (aka SUPPORT)
>
>
>>install 2.x (getwet for 2.x)
>
>
> Again, I'd save the quick links for reference material, or things people do
> more than once. Although, newbies that are using getwet will probably
> visit it quite a few times. So maybe that's good.
Of course, but you agree that this list can be quite long. Since once we
introduce this feature people will ask for more. The site is already
very big and is going to grow, so more shortcuts will be needed.
> See, if we were dynamic, each user could have their own set of quick links!
> Oh, those are called bookmarks. Never mind.... ;)
Well if you can have a business plan based on perl.apache.org, we could
discuss this option in more details.
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: redoing the shortcuts feature
Posted by Per Einar Ellefsen <pe...@skynet.be>.
At 19:23 23.04.2002, Bill Moseley wrote:
>See, if we were dynamic, each user could have their own set of quick links!
> Oh, those are called bookmarks. Never mind.... ;)
We should be using mod_perl for our site! That would make it easier!
--
Per Einar Ellefsen
per.einar@skynet.be
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Re: redoing the shortcuts feature
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
At 01:11 AM 04/24/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>And nobody wants to repeat again and again to users how to report
>problems. And it's different with 1.x and 2.x
Why don't we have a CGI form on the web site? (Oops, I just got myself
more work....)
>Download 1.x
>Download 2.x
I don't think that needs to be a quick link. People don't download every
time they go to the site. Also, there needs to be discussion on picking
the correct version. Seems like it's better to take people to the main
download area always.
>mail archive
>guide 1.x
>reporting problems 1.x (aka SUPPORT)
>install 2.x (getwet for 2.x)
Again, I'd save the quick links for reference material, or things people do
more than once. Although, newbies that are using getwet will probably
visit it quite a few times. So maybe that's good.
See, if we were dynamic, each user could have their own set of quick links!
Oh, those are called bookmarks. Never mind.... ;)
--
Bill Moseley
mailto:moseley@hank.org
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Re: redoing the shortcuts feature
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Per Einar Ellefsen wrote:
> At 16:33 23.04.2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>> I was thinking that we need more shortcuts, and we need two groups:
>> 1.x and 2.x. Which means that the shortcuts menu will be too big. I'm
>> thinking to move the shortcuts into a dedicated document and link to
>> it from the main menu. The drawback is that one will need to click
>> twice to get to the wanted place (instead of once), though we will be
>> able to provide more shortcuts and more nicerly organized.
>
>
> I think we need to keep it where it is. It's fast an efficient. On the
> other hand, you don't need to have too many items.
>
> Downloads
Right, I forgot this one. And now you need two of these, or people will
do the wrong things.
> 1.x Docs
> 2.x Docs
> Mailing list archives
>
> Is enough.
Unfortunately it's not enough. Sending to Docs is not helping at all.
You can just click on docs entry in the menu.
And nobody wants to repeat again and again to users how to report
problems. And it's different with 1.x and 2.x
Download 1.x
Download 2.x
mail archive
guide 1.x
reporting problems 1.x (aka SUPPORT)
install 2.x (getwet for 2.x)
reporting problems 2.x
> Moving them to a separate beats the point of having shortcuts.
Well I'll say it again: These "shortcuts" aren't to make you click less,
they are to get to the final target with minimal thinking and wondering.
I've counted at least 7 items and there will be more, believe me. That's
already not shortcuts since you have to scroll down to get to them. If
you need to scroll-down you can click to get to the much better page.
Moreover the IMHO shortcuts are mostly useful when you are at the root
of the site, when go to perl.apache.org to read something and leave.
Which means that they are redundant on all other pages, which means that
they shouldn't be inlined in the menu. That's me thinking of course.
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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RE: redoing the shortcuts feature
Posted by "Jonathan M. Hollin" <ne...@digital-word.com>.
>I think we need to keep it where it is. It's fast an efficient. On the
>other hand, you don't need to have too many items.
>
>Downloads
>1.x Docs
>2.x Docs
>Mailing list archives
>
>Is enough.
>
>Moving them to a separate beats the point of having shortcuts.
+1 - I agree completely.
Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/
http://wypug.digital-word.com/
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Re: redoing the shortcuts feature
Posted by Per Einar Ellefsen <pe...@skynet.be>.
At 16:33 23.04.2002, Stas Bekman wrote:
>I was thinking that we need more shortcuts, and we need two groups: 1.x
>and 2.x. Which means that the shortcuts menu will be too big. I'm thinking
>to move the shortcuts into a dedicated document and link to it from the
>main menu. The drawback is that one will need to click twice to get to the
>wanted place (instead of once), though we will be able to provide more
>shortcuts and more nicerly organized.
I think we need to keep it where it is. It's fast an efficient. On the
other hand, you don't need to have too many items.
Downloads
1.x Docs
2.x Docs
Mailing list archives
Is enough.
Moving them to a separate beats the point of having shortcuts.
--
Per Einar Ellefsen
per.einar@skynet.be
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Re: redoing the shortcuts feature
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Bill Moseley wrote:
> At 10:33 PM 04/23/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>I was thinking that we need more shortcuts, and we need two groups: 1.x
>>and 2.x. Which means that the shortcuts menu will be too big. I'm
>>thinking to move the shortcuts into a dedicated document and link to it
>
>>from the main menu. The drawback is that one will need to click twice to
>
>>get to the wanted place (instead of once), though we will be able to
>>provide more shortcuts and more nicerly organized.
>
>
> It would be nice if they stay on the main page. They aren't really short
> cuts if you have to go down a level to get to them.
>
> Are you saying the list would be too long, or too wide?
we need at least:
mail archive
guide 1.x
reporting problems 1.x (aka SUPPORT)
install 2.x (getwet for 2.x)
reporting problems 2.x
and more will be coming as the usage pattern of modperl will change, so
we unnecessary restrict ourselves.
The point of ShortCuts is avoid "thinkin" and "searchin", those will
still be shortcuts, but you will get them from the known place. IMHO,
it'll work all the same and we will be able to give better quality
shortcuts.
>>I'm also thinking of generating an automatic sitemap.
>
> That would be nice. I don't use them often, but they seem popular.
ok
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: redoing the shortcuts feature
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
At 10:33 PM 04/23/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>I was thinking that we need more shortcuts, and we need two groups: 1.x
>and 2.x. Which means that the shortcuts menu will be too big. I'm
>thinking to move the shortcuts into a dedicated document and link to it
>from the main menu. The drawback is that one will need to click twice to
>get to the wanted place (instead of once), though we will be able to
>provide more shortcuts and more nicerly organized.
It would be nice if they stay on the main page. They aren't really short
cuts if you have to go down a level to get to them.
Are you saying the list would be too long, or too wide?
>I'm also thinking of generating an automatic sitemap.
That would be nice. I don't use them often, but they seem popular.
--
Bill Moseley
mailto:moseley@hank.org
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