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Posted to slide-dev@jakarta.apache.org by Gary Bickford <ga...@fxt.com> on 2000/09/06 22:35:09 UTC
About to build Slide
Folks,
I am in the process of trying to build Slide. One thing that would make
life easier for folks would be to post the README on the website, so
folks know in advance what they have to do.
I plan to take notes on the process as I go for another purpose, so I
will post a summary when I get things running. As I'm notorious for not
following through on vague promises, I won't promise to create a pretty
HTML version of a revised README at that time, but I will entertain the
possibility of all you folks nagging me in that direction when the time
comes.
I am going to use the 905 nightly build, and the latest versions of the
various prerequisites described in the README - is that reasonable?
GB
--
"We feel that this change will be sufficient to discourage "hackers",
although it is obviously insufficient to protect a node against a
determined and malicious attack."
- RFC521 (ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc521.txt), 1973
Gary E Bickford, mailto:garyb-at-fxt.com.
Web and content/asset management systems, PHP, XML, Apache, SQL
FXT Corp, http://www.fxt.com, tel. 541-383-2749
Associate needed.
Posted by Gary Bickford <ga...@fxt.com>.
OK Dave, Remy et al,
Here's the deal. Some of y'all know a lot more about this than I do. I'm just a poor
PHP-hacker diving into a new pond.
I have to provide a not-to-exceed price for this project (in phases) ASAP. Since I'm
Java-naive, I've decided to minimize my risk by asking folks on this list to work for
me on the project, both in the planning stages (due 2 weeks ago) and at least phase 1
(the image database system) (hopefully we can have this completed in early October.)
All relevant code resulting will be available to be contributed (in a sanitized form)
to the community.
So, if anyone on this list believes they can help finalize the architecture and design
=> the no. of hours to get the system built, I will sub out a significant part of the
project. Email me back privately if you're interested. I really, really need someone
who knows this environment and the Java side in particular well enough to bang this
out without a lot of searching.
The only catch is this: once they see the cost, they may still opt for a commercial
package. If so, I'll get paid for the work it took to get the design done, and you'll
get paid according to hours and rates we agree on for just that work.
If we can do this, then we'll have a good start at building the media asset management
system we've been talking about. I still like the name Pixie :O) - any comments?
Gary B
dave wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Sep 2000, you wrote:
> I'm not Craig but I think I have some useful input on some of these
> questions:
>
> > 2. My understanding is that it will be up to me to define and manage the
> > metadata - forms for entering and database hooks for inserting, updating, etc.
> > These could be done in PHP, or JSP, or ???
>
> Turbine (http://java.apche.org/turbine) would be a perfect fit for this.
> It gives you the presentation layer , business layer, and database service
> (pooling etc...) you need without recreating the wheel.
>
> > 3. Tomcat is the servlet engine and JSP interface, required for all components
> > unless I use PHP.
>
> Again you can use Turbine for the presentation layer. It solves most ot
> the problems you'll run into creating your own Web App framework.
>
> > 4. Struts apears to be an API for building website functionality. How (if at
> > all) does Struts fit in to my application?
>
> I can't speak for Struts but I can for Turbine :-). It'll provide the
> foundation for your web application - for example, role/permissions security,
> database pooling, dynamic page generation, etc...
> For a full list of features please see the Turbine site.
>
> > 6. Then there's Prowler, for which I couldn't find a website, and Infozone,
> > which appears to be not ready for prime time yet.
>
> Prowler is a the name of the project under Infozone.
>
>
> --
> dave
> daveb@miceda-data.com
> ----------------------
--
"We feel that this change will be sufficient to discourage "hackers",
although it is obviously insufficient to protect a node against a
determined and malicious attack."
- RFC521 (ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc521.txt), 1973
Gary E Bickford, mailto:garyb-at-fxt.com.
Web and content/asset management systems, PHP, XML, Apache, SQL
FXT Corp, http://www.fxt.com, tel. 541-383-2749
Re: About to build Slide
Posted by dave <da...@miceda-data.com>.
On Thu, 07 Sep 2000, you wrote:
I'm not Craig but I think I have some useful input on some of these
questions:
> 2. My understanding is that it will be up to me to define and manage the
> metadata - forms for entering and database hooks for inserting, updating, etc.
> These could be done in PHP, or JSP, or ???
Turbine (http://java.apche.org/turbine) would be a perfect fit for this.
It gives you the presentation layer , business layer, and database service
(pooling etc...) you need without recreating the wheel.
> 3. Tomcat is the servlet engine and JSP interface, required for all components
> unless I use PHP.
Again you can use Turbine for the presentation layer. It solves most ot
the problems you'll run into creating your own Web App framework.
> 4. Struts apears to be an API for building website functionality. How (if at
> all) does Struts fit in to my application?
I can't speak for Struts but I can for Turbine :-). It'll provide the
foundation for your web application - for example, role/permissions security,
database pooling, dynamic page generation, etc...
For a full list of features please see the Turbine site.
> 6. Then there's Prowler, for which I couldn't find a website, and Infozone,
> which appears to be not ready for prime time yet.
Prowler is a the name of the project under Infozone.
--
dave
daveb@miceda-data.com
----------------------
Re: About to build Slide
Posted by Gary Bickford <ga...@fxt.com>.
Remy Maucherat wrote:
> > Slide depends on Ant, Tomcat, and several Jakarta tools (for source build
> only?)
>
> It has minimal dependencies at run time :
> - JAXP (and a JAXP implementation)
> - A servlet 2.2 compliant engine to run the Slide WAR archive
>
OK, let's assume I'm starting totally from scratch - well not quite. My
(linux) machine has JDK1.1.7 on it, but that's not new enough.
So I need to do the following, assuming I'm staying with binaries.
1. Download and install java 2 SDK Standard Edition 1.3.0 from
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.3/ (requires registration and license
acceptance) - this is a 25 MB download, but can also be downloaded as a
bunch of 1.4MB files.
2. Download and install JAXP from http://java.sun.com/xml/download.html
(I think also requires the same regstration, but I forgot now) - this
includes the reference implementation. Installation notes are at
http://java.sun.com/xml/install.html. This is an 857K download.
3. Servlet Engine - that would be Tomcat. Download and install Tomcat from
http://jakarta.apache.org/downloads/binindex.html or
http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/tomcat/release/v3.1/bin/
I'm done with 2 and 3, finishing 1 now. Then I'll do the install/test cycle
for each one in turn. Since I haven't used java on this machine yet, I'll also
have to make classpath etc. work correctly, which always seems to stump me.
I'll post any changes or additions here as well.
GB
Re: About to build Slide
Posted by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Bickford" <ga...@fxt.com>
To: <sl...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: About to build Slide
> Since Craig is lurking here :O), I'd like to pose a broader question for
the folks
> on the list. I looked again at the Struts website and the Ant website, to
get a
> better handle on how all these pieces fit together.
>
> For background, I'm a user about to build a replacement for an image and
> sourcefile repository presently coded in PHP2 and mSQL. Some other
repositories
> of all sorts of filetypes on various platforms will eventually be migrated
into
> the system.
>
> So let's say I'm about to build a website that has the usual stuff in it,
plus a
> database for looking up image metadata and retrieving the images from an
> NFS filesystem. As previously discussed, we'll call this a 'media asset
> management system' as that is its eventual ambition.
>
> 1. I see Slide becoming the primary content management framework.
However I'm
> not sure just how much of the work it does - my presumption is that (using
the
> WebDAV module) an author can check out, edit and check in a source file of
> whatever kind, and it will be placed (somewhere?) in the file system
controlled by
> Slide.
That's correct.
> Slide depends on Ant, Tomcat, and several Jakarta tools (for source build
only?)
It has minimal dependencies at run time :
- JAXP (and a JAXP implementation)
- A servlet 2.2 compliant engine to run the Slide WAR archive
To build it, you need a bit more :
- A Catalina (from the Tomcat 4.0 tree) build, created using the default
build target (because the build procedure uses the compiled classes)
- Install XSL:P or Xalan (preferably XSL:P)
- Bootstrap again Ant
- Compile the Slide distribution using "build release"
I think nothing has changed from the build instructions given in the README
file. I'll check and update it if needed.
> 2. My understanding is that it will be up to me to define and manage
the
> metadata - forms for entering and database hooks for inserting, updating,
etc.
> These could be done in PHP, or JSP, or ???
Struts could do that too.
> 3. Tomcat is the servlet engine and JSP interface, required for all
components
> unless I use PHP.
>
> 4. Struts apears to be an API for building website functionality. How
(if at
> all) does Struts fit in to my application?
>
> 5. Ant is described as a make replacement - how does that relate to
Craig's
> remark about using Ant's <style> tag instead of something else?
It's used to statically build the documentation (nothing more, nothing
less).
> 6. Then there's Prowler, for which I couldn't find a website, and
Infozone,
> which appears to be not ready for prime time yet.
Slide needs a bit more work too, but the first milestone is coming soon (see
the TODO list I posted a few days ago).
I consider it a milestone not because it will be buggy (although the next
milestone will probably be released soon after that to fix any issues , but
because I think it will be very incomplete (no searching / indexing, no
notifications / confirmations, no Delta V ...).
> 7. Ant itself requires most of the Apache XML components, am I right?
>
> Maybe I'll draw a diagram of all the pieces interacting and post it for
review...
> And one more thing - how do I talk to a database? we have Oracle 8i,
MySQL. I
> haven't used 8i yet. I could use an Object database or whatever as well.
You can use the JDBC store implementation to do that. The sample
configuration shows how to use it with Hypersonic SQL, but you should be
able to run it on top of a JDBC aware database.
Right now, the focus is on fixing all the things which need to be in the
core. After that, I hope people will contribute back some Store
implementations for a variety of systems.
Remy
Re: About to build Slide
Posted by Gary Bickford <ga...@fxt.com>.
Since Craig is lurking here :O), I'd like to pose a broader question for the folks
on the list. I looked again at the Struts website and the Ant website, to get a
better handle on how all these pieces fit together.
For background, I'm a user about to build a replacement for an image and
sourcefile repository presently coded in PHP2 and mSQL. Some other repositories
of all sorts of filetypes on various platforms will eventually be migrated into
the system.
So let's say I'm about to build a website that has the usual stuff in it, plus a
database for looking up image metadata and retrieving the images from an
NFS filesystem. As previously discussed, we'll call this a 'media asset
management system' as that is its eventual ambition.
1. I see Slide becoming the primary content management framework. However I'm
not sure just how much of the work it does - my presumption is that (using the
WebDAV module) an author can check out, edit and check in a source file of
whatever kind, and it will be placed (somewhere?) in the file system controlled by
Slide.
Slide depends on Ant, Tomcat, and several Jakarta tools (for source build only?)
2. My understanding is that it will be up to me to define and manage the
metadata - forms for entering and database hooks for inserting, updating, etc.
These could be done in PHP, or JSP, or ???
3. Tomcat is the servlet engine and JSP interface, required for all components
unless I use PHP.
4. Struts apears to be an API for building website functionality. How (if at
all) does Struts fit in to my application?
5. Ant is described as a make replacement - how does that relate to Craig's
remark about using Ant's <style> tag instead of something else?
6. Then there's Prowler, for which I couldn't find a website, and Infozone,
which appears to be not ready for prime time yet.
7. Ant itself requires most of the Apache XML components, am I right?
Maybe I'll draw a diagram of all the pieces interacting and post it for review...
Re: About to build Slide
Posted by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig R. McClanahan" <Cr...@eng.sun.com>
To: <sl...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: About to build Slide
> Remy Maucherat wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gary Bickford" <ga...@fxt.com>
> > To: <sl...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 9:42 AM
> > Subject: Re: About to build Slide
> >
> > I can't do that right now, but I think it will be feasible. It's a very
good
> > suggestion (let's eat our dog food). Struts and Velocity have their
website
> > in XML, with stylesheets. It looks like it's statically generated, but I
may
> > be wrong. The rest of the Jakarta website is in a CVS module called
> > jakarta-site (you have to be a commiter on Jakarta to access it), and
it's a
> > pain to update it (last time, Craig did it for me; thanks Craig ;-).
> > I also don't know if any servlet container environment is availible on
the
> > jakarta box.
> >
>
> The Struts and Velocity sites are indeed generated statically from XML,
because
> the server we are hosted on is running FreeBSD and does not have a Java2
> environment available at the moment :-(.
Can't we get a separate box for Jakarta ? That way, we can make it as
java-aware as we want, like using Tomcat as the webserver ;-)
> For Struts, I'm using the relatively new <style> tag in Ant, which uses
Xalan
> and Xerces underneath, to perform XSLT transformations on my input pages.
I
> think the Velocity guys are using Stylebook, which I've never been able to
find
> any documentation or source code for -- and, because of Ant, I don't need
to
> worry about it.
I do the same with the Slide documentation (<style> + XSL:P), so all I'll
have to do is slightly rewrite the XML files to fit to the Struts
stylesheets.
> > So, to summarize a bit : it's a very good idea, it will probably happen,
but
> > not right now.
> >
> > The site update will probably use the Struts and Velocity look and feel.
> > Laurie : I plan to include the documentation, as well as the content for
the
> > Slide Guide website, bacause I think it's very helpful.
> >
>
> Remy, there's also information in BC Holmes's site about Slide that
probably
> belongs here as well:
>
> http://www.interlog.com/~bcholmes/geek/slide-home.html
>
That's indeed the Slide Guide site I mentioned, and as I said I intend to
integrate it.
Remy
Re: About to build Slide
Posted by Gary Bickford <ga...@fxt.com>.
And one more thing - how do I talk to a database? we have Oracle 8i, MySQL. I
haven't used 8i yet. I could use an Object database or whatever as well.
Re: About to build Slide
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <Cr...@eng.sun.com>.
Remy Maucherat wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Bickford" <ga...@fxt.com>
> To: <sl...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 9:42 AM
> Subject: Re: About to build Slide
>
> > Hmm...
> >
> > What are the possibilities of making the website an open source Slide
> project
> > ;O) - can we set this up as a Slide environment and work together on this?
> Then
> > the site itself will be a reflection of the state of the development
> project.
> > Or is this too ambitious? If this is a workable idea, then Remy wouldn't
> have
> > to do all the work to maintain the site, just maintain a working version.
> What
> > would be necessary to do something like this?
>
> I can't do that right now, but I think it will be feasible. It's a very good
> suggestion (let's eat our dog food). Struts and Velocity have their website
> in XML, with stylesheets. It looks like it's statically generated, but I may
> be wrong. The rest of the Jakarta website is in a CVS module called
> jakarta-site (you have to be a commiter on Jakarta to access it), and it's a
> pain to update it (last time, Craig did it for me; thanks Craig ;-).
> I also don't know if any servlet container environment is availible on the
> jakarta box.
>
The Struts and Velocity sites are indeed generated statically from XML, because
the server we are hosted on is running FreeBSD and does not have a Java2
environment available at the moment :-(.
For Struts, I'm using the relatively new <style> tag in Ant, which uses Xalan
and Xerces underneath, to perform XSLT transformations on my input pages. I
think the Velocity guys are using Stylebook, which I've never been able to find
any documentation or source code for -- and, because of Ant, I don't need to
worry about it.
>
> So, to summarize a bit : it's a very good idea, it will probably happen, but
> not right now.
>
> The site update will probably use the Struts and Velocity look and feel.
> Laurie : I plan to include the documentation, as well as the content for the
> Slide Guide website, bacause I think it's very helpful.
>
Remy, there's also information in BC Holmes's site about Slide that probably
belongs here as well:
http://www.interlog.com/~bcholmes/geek/slide-home.html
>
> Remy
Craig
====================
See you at ApacheCon Europe <http://www.apachecon.com>!
Session VS01 (23-Oct 13h00-17h00): Sun Technical Briefing
Session T06 (24-Oct 14h00-15h00): Migrating Apache JServ
Applications to Tomcat
Re: About to build Slide
Posted by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Bickford" <ga...@fxt.com>
To: <sl...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: About to build Slide
> Hmm...
>
> What are the possibilities of making the website an open source Slide
project
> ;O) - can we set this up as a Slide environment and work together on this?
Then
> the site itself will be a reflection of the state of the development
project.
> Or is this too ambitious? If this is a workable idea, then Remy wouldn't
have
> to do all the work to maintain the site, just maintain a working version.
What
> would be necessary to do something like this?
I can't do that right now, but I think it will be feasible. It's a very good
suggestion (let's eat our dog food). Struts and Velocity have their website
in XML, with stylesheets. It looks like it's statically generated, but I may
be wrong. The rest of the Jakarta website is in a CVS module called
jakarta-site (you have to be a commiter on Jakarta to access it), and it's a
pain to update it (last time, Craig did it for me; thanks Craig ;-).
I also don't know if any servlet container environment is availible on the
jakarta box.
So, to summarize a bit : it's a very good idea, it will probably happen, but
not right now.
The site update will probably use the Struts and Velocity look and feel.
Laurie : I plan to include the documentation, as well as the content for the
Slide Guide website, bacause I think it's very helpful.
Remy
Re: About to build Slide
Posted by Gary Bickford <ga...@fxt.com>.
Hmm...
What are the possibilities of making the website an open source Slide project
;O) - can we set this up as a Slide environment and work together on this? Then
the site itself will be a reflection of the state of the development project.
Or is this too ambitious? If this is a workable idea, then Remy wouldn't have
to do all the work to maintain the site, just maintain a working version. What
would be necessary to do something like this?
GB
Laurie Harper wrote:
> Remy Maucherat wrote:
> > I will do a site update at some point in the near future. I don't have time
> > to do that right now, unfortunately, for a variety of personal reasons.
> > I also plan to move the Slide Guide to the main site, since I got a request
> > about that from various PMC members. BC, is it ok with you ?
>
> You might consider adding the documentation too; I spent a while trying to
> grok the code blindly realising that there was more documentation to be
> had... :-)
>
> Laurie
--
"We feel that this change will be sufficient to discourage "hackers",
although it is obviously insufficient to protect a node against a
determined and malicious attack."
- RFC521 (ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc521.txt), 1973
Gary E Bickford, mailto:garyb-at-fxt.com.
Web and content/asset management systems, PHP, XML, Apache, SQL
FXT Corp, http://www.fxt.com, tel. 541-383-2749
Re: About to build Slide
Posted by Laurie Harper <zo...@holoweb.net>.
Remy Maucherat wrote:
> I will do a site update at some point in the near future. I don't have time
> to do that right now, unfortunately, for a variety of personal reasons.
> I also plan to move the Slide Guide to the main site, since I got a request
> about that from various PMC members. BC, is it ok with you ?
You might consider adding the documentation too; I spent a while trying to
grok the code blindly realising that there was more documentation to be
had... :-)
Laurie
Re: About to build Slide
Posted by Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Bickford" <ga...@fxt.com>
To: "Slide Dev" <sl...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 1:35 PM
Subject: About to build Slide
> Folks,
> I am in the process of trying to build Slide. One thing that would make
> life easier for folks would be to post the README on the website, so
> folks know in advance what they have to do.
I will do a site update at some point in the near future. I don't have time
to do that right now, unfortunately, for a variety of personal reasons.
I also plan to move the Slide Guide to the main site, since I got a request
about that from various PMC members. BC, is it ok with you ?
> I plan to take notes on the process as I go for another purpose, so I
> will post a summary when I get things running. As I'm notorious for not
> following through on vague promises, I won't promise to create a pretty
> HTML version of a revised README at that time, but I will entertain the
> possibility of all you folks nagging me in that direction when the time
> comes.
There are not many requirements to build Slide.
The basic build (build main) only requires JAXP (and Ant, which already
needs JAXP).
The release option, which would produce the nightly build packaging,
requires a compiled Tomcat 4.0 and (that's the hardest part) a XSL enabled
build of Ant (otherwise, the <style> taskdef will generate an error and the
build will fail).
> I am going to use the 905 nightly build, and the latest versions of the
> various prerequisites described in the README - is that reasonable?
I think so.
Remy