Re: Team building

[ru...@us.ibm.com]

Stephano wrote:

>1) _don't expect_ anything. Some of you guys are paid to follow this up,
>some of us are not! But even those who get paid, don't get paid to
>integrate bug fixes alone, that's a team effort.

Speaking from recent experience, it hard / confusing / frustrating when you
are not a part of the team.

>2) silence is not bad, lack of patience is. We live scattered around the
>world and, yes, it may happen that some of us don't even get online for
>ISP problems for a day or two. Or maybe, damn it, they decided to get a
>life instead and went skying with their girlfriends.

I disagree.  Silence is bad.  I do agree that patience (or rather
persistence) is a virtue.

Something is seriously wrong with the organization if it is possible for
any one person to "get a life" and in so doing cause a project to stop
dead.  The fault is not with the person in question, the fault is with the
organization.

When I first was became interested in PHP, the original developer got a
life - actually a wife - and was on his honeymoon.  The project hardly
skipped a beat given all the activity.

The answer isn't more patience.  It is more active contributors.

One argument against this is the need to conform to an external
specification.  One way to address this is to more closely monitor watchdog
for unintential regressions without prior justifications.

>3) this is a dynamic process. If you don't like something: speak up. If
>you think you could do a better job, do it. If you like a feature to add
>and other don't, fight and stand up.

Again, this only applies once you are a part of the team.  But them again,
perhaps I may have missed your point - your story essentially describes a
Coup d'état.  Is that what you are suggesting here?

Re: Team building

[Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>]

rubys@us.ibm.com wrote:
> 
> Stephano wrote:

Stefano, please :)
 
> >1) _don't expect_ anything. Some of you guys are paid to follow this up,
> >some of us are not! But even those who get paid, don't get paid to
> >integrate bug fixes alone, that's a team effort.
> 
> Speaking from recent experience, it hard / confusing / frustrating when you
> are not a part of the team.

Totally true. I've been there. I know how that feels.
 
> >2) silence is not bad, lack of patience is. We live scattered around the
> >world and, yes, it may happen that some of us don't even get online for
> >ISP problems for a day or two. Or maybe, damn it, they decided to get a
> >life instead and went skying with their girlfriends.
> 
> I disagree.  Silence is bad.  I do agree that patience (or rather
> persistence) is a virtue.
> 
> Something is seriously wrong with the organization if it is possible for
> any one person to "get a life" and in so doing cause a project to stop
> dead.  The fault is not with the person in question, the fault is with the
> organization.

Wisely put. I agree with your statement.
 
> When I first was became interested in PHP, the original developer got a
> life - actually a wife - and was on his honeymoon.  The project hardly
> skipped a beat given all the activity.

:)
 
> The answer isn't more patience.  It is more active contributors.

No shit!
 
> One argument against this is the need to conform to an external
> specification.  One way to address this is to more closely monitor watchdog
> for unintential regressions without prior justifications.

I'm not worried about having more contributors. java.apache clearly
showed that people willing to contribute and asking for it already feel
confortable with their skills and would like to test them in front of
the world.

This, alone, can convince us the guys/girl is good enough for the job.
 
> >3) this is a dynamic process. If you don't like something: speak up. If
> >you think you could do a better job, do it. If you like a feature to add
> >and other don't, fight and stand up.
> 
> Again, this only applies once you are a part of the team.  But them again,
> perhaps I may have missed your point - your story essentially describes a
> Coup d'état.  Is that what you are suggesting here?

Maybe. My point is: when something is broken, fix it. And if you can't
fix it, kick around until you break in.

This is what you've done and you won't stop until you're satistifed,
right?

Go, Sam, go, I'll be on your side :)

-- 
Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<st...@apache.org>                             Friedrich Nietzsche