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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Sander Striker <st...@apache.org> on 2001/12/07 18:39:15 UTC

RE: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP

> From: Ryan Bloom [mailto:rbb@covalent.net]
> Sent: 07 December 2001 17:22
> To: dev@httpd.apache.org; brianp@apache.org; httpd-2.0-cvs@apache.org
> Subject: Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP
> 
> 
> 
> >   +    * Add a string "class" that combines a char* with a length
> >   +      and a reference count.  This will help reduce the number
> >   +      of strlen and strdup operations during request processing.
> 
> This doesn't belong in Apache, if anything it is an APR class.  BTW,
> this has come up multiple times, and everybody seems to be in favor
> or if.
> 
> Ryan

In subversion svn_string_t was introduced, because it wasn't in APR.
It does (AFAIK) exactly what brian describes.

Sander


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Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP

Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@covalent.net>.
From: "Brian Pane" <br...@cnet.com>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:54 PM


> Ian Holsman wrote:
> 
> >On Fri, 2001-12-07 at 10:39, Sander Striker wrote:
> >
> ...
> 
> >>In subversion svn_string_t was introduced, because it wasn't in APR.
> >>It does (AFAIK) exactly what brian describes.
> >>
> >is there any reason NOT to introduce this into the APR now?
> >we could then slowly migrate strings to this
> >
> 
> I'm in favor of including it in APR, but opposed to trying to
> retrofit it into Apache before 2.0 GA.  My rationale for this
> is that, even with a reference-counted string class, we'll have
> to be extremely careful not to make performance worse when doing
> a major change in the string handling.  (And we're close to having
> all the really significant strlen and strdup inefficiencies fixed
> in httpd-2.0 already.)

+1 ... a STRINGS branch in apr would be good while we experiment.


Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP

Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@covalent.net>.
From: "Brian Pane" <br...@cnet.com>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:54 PM


> Ian Holsman wrote:
> 
> >On Fri, 2001-12-07 at 10:39, Sander Striker wrote:
> >
> ...
> 
> >>In subversion svn_string_t was introduced, because it wasn't in APR.
> >>It does (AFAIK) exactly what brian describes.
> >>
> >is there any reason NOT to introduce this into the APR now?
> >we could then slowly migrate strings to this
> >
> 
> I'm in favor of including it in APR, but opposed to trying to
> retrofit it into Apache before 2.0 GA.  My rationale for this
> is that, even with a reference-counted string class, we'll have
> to be extremely careful not to make performance worse when doing
> a major change in the string handling.  (And we're close to having
> all the really significant strlen and strdup inefficiencies fixed
> in httpd-2.0 already.)

+1 ... a STRINGS branch in apr would be good while we experiment.


Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP

Posted by Brian Pane <br...@cnet.com>.
Ian Holsman wrote:

>On Fri, 2001-12-07 at 10:39, Sander Striker wrote:
>
...

>>In subversion svn_string_t was introduced, because it wasn't in APR.
>>It does (AFAIK) exactly what brian describes.
>>
>is there any reason NOT to introduce this into the APR now?
>we could then slowly migrate strings to this
>

I'm in favor of including it in APR, but opposed to trying to
retrofit it into Apache before 2.0 GA.  My rationale for this
is that, even with a reference-counted string class, we'll have
to be extremely careful not to make performance worse when doing
a major change in the string handling.  (And we're close to having
all the really significant strlen and strdup inefficiencies fixed
in httpd-2.0 already.)

--Brian



Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP

Posted by Brian Pane <br...@cnet.com>.
Ian Holsman wrote:

>On Fri, 2001-12-07 at 10:39, Sander Striker wrote:
>
...

>>In subversion svn_string_t was introduced, because it wasn't in APR.
>>It does (AFAIK) exactly what brian describes.
>>
>is there any reason NOT to introduce this into the APR now?
>we could then slowly migrate strings to this
>

I'm in favor of including it in APR, but opposed to trying to
retrofit it into Apache before 2.0 GA.  My rationale for this
is that, even with a reference-counted string class, we'll have
to be extremely careful not to make performance worse when doing
a major change in the string handling.  (And we're close to having
all the really significant strlen and strdup inefficiencies fixed
in httpd-2.0 already.)

--Brian



Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP

Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@covalent.net>.
From: "Aaron Bannert" <aa...@clove.org>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:46 PM


> [narrowing down the to: list back to APR]
> 
> On Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 10:44:14AM -0800, Ian Holsman wrote:
> > On Fri, 2001-12-07 at 10:39, Sander Striker wrote:
> > > In subversion svn_string_t was introduced, because it wasn't in APR.
> > > It does (AFAIK) exactly what brian describes.
> > > 
> > is there any reason NOT to introduce this into the APR now?
> > we could then slowly migrate strings to this
> 
> +1
> I see no reason not to start adding this, as long as it's marked
> in some way to be experimental/incomplete while we're working on it.

'marked in some way' == branch.

> I assume we'll have to start duping some of our string functions to
> be able to use the new type?

But of course ... and provide the a complete set of ISO C string functions?


Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP

Posted by Aaron Bannert <aa...@clove.org>.
[narrowing down the to: list back to APR]

On Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 10:44:14AM -0800, Ian Holsman wrote:
> On Fri, 2001-12-07 at 10:39, Sander Striker wrote:
> > In subversion svn_string_t was introduced, because it wasn't in APR.
> > It does (AFAIK) exactly what brian describes.
> > 
> is there any reason NOT to introduce this into the APR now?
> we could then slowly migrate strings to this

+1
I see no reason not to start adding this, as long as it's marked
in some way to be experimental/incomplete while we're working on it.

I assume we'll have to start duping some of our string functions to
be able to use the new type?

-aaron


RE: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP

Posted by Ian Holsman <ia...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 2001-12-07 at 10:39, Sander Striker wrote:
> > From: Ryan Bloom [mailto:rbb@covalent.net]
> > Sent: 07 December 2001 17:22
> > To: dev@httpd.apache.org; brianp@apache.org; httpd-2.0-cvs@apache.org
> > Subject: Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >   +    * Add a string "class" that combines a char* with a length
> > >   +      and a reference count.  This will help reduce the number
> > >   +      of strlen and strdup operations during request processing.
> > 
> > This doesn't belong in Apache, if anything it is an APR class.  BTW,
> > this has come up multiple times, and everybody seems to be in favor
> > or if.
> > 
> > Ryan
> 
> In subversion svn_string_t was introduced, because it wasn't in APR.
> It does (AFAIK) exactly what brian describes.
> 
is there any reason NOT to introduce this into the APR now?
we could then slowly migrate strings to this
> Sander



RE: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP

Posted by Sander Striker <st...@apache.org>.
> From: Karl Fogel [mailto:kfogel@newton.ch.collab.net]
> Sent: 07 December 2001 19:42

> "Sander Striker" <st...@apache.org> writes:
> > > >   +    * Add a string "class" that combines a char* with a length
> > > >   +      and a reference count.  This will help reduce the number
> > > >   +      of strlen and strdup operations during request processing.
> > > 
> > > This doesn't belong in Apache, if anything it is an APR class.  BTW,
> > > this has come up multiple times, and everybody seems to be in favor
> > > or if.
> > > 
> > > Ryan
> > 
> > In subversion svn_string_t was introduced, because it wasn't in APR.
> > It does (AFAIK) exactly what brian describes.
> 
> Subversion's `svn_string_t' and `svn_stringbuf_t' don't have reference
> counts...
> 
> -Karl

True, and having a refcount would mean they would need to come out of some
global 'pool'.  The pool passed in for creation/duplication of the string
merely bumps the refcount and registers a 'string refcount decrease [delete
when zero]' cleanup.  At least, that is what pops in my mind at first thought.

Refcounts and pools are hairy... :)

Caching the strlen is a good start though.

Sander


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RE: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP

Posted by Sander Striker <st...@apache.org>.
> From: Karl Fogel [mailto:kfogel@newton.ch.collab.net]
> Sent: 07 December 2001 19:42

> "Sander Striker" <st...@apache.org> writes:
> > > >   +    * Add a string "class" that combines a char* with a length
> > > >   +      and a reference count.  This will help reduce the number
> > > >   +      of strlen and strdup operations during request processing.
> > > 
> > > This doesn't belong in Apache, if anything it is an APR class.  BTW,
> > > this has come up multiple times, and everybody seems to be in favor
> > > or if.
> > > 
> > > Ryan
> > 
> > In subversion svn_string_t was introduced, because it wasn't in APR.
> > It does (AFAIK) exactly what brian describes.
> 
> Subversion's `svn_string_t' and `svn_stringbuf_t' don't have reference
> counts...
> 
> -Karl

True, and having a refcount would mean they would need to come out of some
global 'pool'.  The pool passed in for creation/duplication of the string
merely bumps the refcount and registers a 'string refcount decrease [delete
when zero]' cleanup.  At least, that is what pops in my mind at first thought.

Refcounts and pools are hairy... :)

Caching the strlen is a good start though.

Sander


RE: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP

Posted by Sander Striker <st...@apache.org>.
> From: Karl Fogel [mailto:kfogel@newton.ch.collab.net]
> Sent: 07 December 2001 19:42

> "Sander Striker" <st...@apache.org> writes:
> > > >   +    * Add a string "class" that combines a char* with a length
> > > >   +      and a reference count.  This will help reduce the number
> > > >   +      of strlen and strdup operations during request processing.
> > > 
> > > This doesn't belong in Apache, if anything it is an APR class.  BTW,
> > > this has come up multiple times, and everybody seems to be in favor
> > > or if.
> > > 
> > > Ryan
> > 
> > In subversion svn_string_t was introduced, because it wasn't in APR.
> > It does (AFAIK) exactly what brian describes.
> 
> Subversion's `svn_string_t' and `svn_stringbuf_t' don't have reference
> counts...
> 
> -Karl

True, and having a refcount would mean they would need to come out of some
global 'pool'.  The pool passed in for creation/duplication of the string
merely bumps the refcount and registers a 'string refcount decrease [delete
when zero]' cleanup.  At least, that is what pops in my mind at first thought.

Refcounts and pools are hairy... :)

Caching the strlen is a good start though.

Sander


Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP

Posted by Karl Fogel <kf...@newton.ch.collab.net>.
"Sander Striker" <st...@apache.org> writes:
> > >   +    * Add a string "class" that combines a char* with a length
> > >   +      and a reference count.  This will help reduce the number
> > >   +      of strlen and strdup operations during request processing.
> > 
> > This doesn't belong in Apache, if anything it is an APR class.  BTW,
> > this has come up multiple times, and everybody seems to be in favor
> > or if.
> > 
> > Ryan
> 
> In subversion svn_string_t was introduced, because it wasn't in APR.
> It does (AFAIK) exactly what brian describes.

Subversion's `svn_string_t' and `svn_stringbuf_t' don't have reference
counts...

-Karl

Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP

Posted by Karl Fogel <kf...@newton.ch.collab.net>.
"Sander Striker" <st...@apache.org> writes:
> > >   +    * Add a string "class" that combines a char* with a length
> > >   +      and a reference count.  This will help reduce the number
> > >   +      of strlen and strdup operations during request processing.
> > 
> > This doesn't belong in Apache, if anything it is an APR class.  BTW,
> > this has come up multiple times, and everybody seems to be in favor
> > or if.
> > 
> > Ryan
> 
> In subversion svn_string_t was introduced, because it wasn't in APR.
> It does (AFAIK) exactly what brian describes.

Subversion's `svn_string_t' and `svn_stringbuf_t' don't have reference
counts...

-Karl

RE: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP

Posted by Ian Holsman <ia...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 2001-12-07 at 10:39, Sander Striker wrote:
> > From: Ryan Bloom [mailto:rbb@covalent.net]
> > Sent: 07 December 2001 17:22
> > To: dev@httpd.apache.org; brianp@apache.org; httpd-2.0-cvs@apache.org
> > Subject: Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >   +    * Add a string "class" that combines a char* with a length
> > >   +      and a reference count.  This will help reduce the number
> > >   +      of strlen and strdup operations during request processing.
> > 
> > This doesn't belong in Apache, if anything it is an APR class.  BTW,
> > this has come up multiple times, and everybody seems to be in favor
> > or if.
> > 
> > Ryan
> 
> In subversion svn_string_t was introduced, because it wasn't in APR.
> It does (AFAIK) exactly what brian describes.
> 
is there any reason NOT to introduce this into the APR now?
we could then slowly migrate strings to this
> Sander



Re: cvs commit: httpd-2.0 ROADMAP

Posted by Karl Fogel <kf...@newton.ch.collab.net>.
"Sander Striker" <st...@apache.org> writes:
> > >   +    * Add a string "class" that combines a char* with a length
> > >   +      and a reference count.  This will help reduce the number
> > >   +      of strlen and strdup operations during request processing.
> > 
> > This doesn't belong in Apache, if anything it is an APR class.  BTW,
> > this has come up multiple times, and everybody seems to be in favor
> > or if.
> > 
> > Ryan
> 
> In subversion svn_string_t was introduced, because it wasn't in APR.
> It does (AFAIK) exactly what brian describes.

Subversion's `svn_string_t' and `svn_stringbuf_t' don't have reference
counts...

-Karl

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