Properties?

["B.C. Holmes" <bc...@interlog.com>]

Hi Remy,

      Thanks for your response!

Remy Maucherat wrote:
> 
> Right now, Slide is something like a powerful filesystem. It deals with :
> - ACLs
> - locking
> - versioning
> - (eventually) indexing

     Kewl.  I've downloaded bunches of the source code to take a
look.  When you say "(eventually) indexing", are you referring to
properties?  (I didn't see what I was expecting in the PROPPATCH
method -- are properties a later requirement?)

BCing you
-- 
B.C. Holmes         \u2625         http://www.interlog.com/~bcholmes/
"You know how deep some things are, and it's just impossible to get
 them out?  It all gets jumbled up inside.  Love, hate, nightmares...
 dreams.  Then you meet somebody you think will understand, but you
 don't know what to say.  Then you're afraid to say anything."
            - _Strangers in Paradise_

Re: Properties?

[Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>]

> Remy Maucherat wrote:
> >
> > I didn't code Proppatch yet (sorry). That's only because I didn't find
any
> > DAV Client so far using that method. Many servers don't handle Proppatch
at
> > all, and I don't know if IIS does
>
>      I'm pretty sure that IIS supports it, but not 100% sure.

It's just that none of the MS clients are using Proppatch. And I wonder
where they would store the metadata with the FAT filesystem (with NTFS, they
could use the multiple streams feature).

> mod_dav
> definitely supports PROPPATCH/PROPFIND.

I know.

>      I think there's some really cool stuff you can do with properties
> and content management.  One of the things that enterprises want to do
> with content management systems, for example, is manage sitemaps and
> drop down menus.
>
>      Assume that any worthy WebDAV repository understands the Dublin
> Core properties (TITLE, CREATOR, etc.).  You can get a site map of
> your web server by sending a PROPFIND to the root, and retrieving the
> properties as an XML document.  Then use XSLT to manipulate those
> properties into an easy-to-read list of the documents on a server (by
> selecting out the TITLE property).

Nice use of propfind ;-)
I limit the depth of propfind infinity right now to a depth 3. It might not
be a good idea, though.
Ok, I'll support Proppatch ASAP :-) I need it to do some really basic
administration anyway (like changing a user's password), so it's in my top
priority list.

>      This sort of function is ideal for sites that add new pages in
> dribs and drabs, such as an online magazine.  Nobody has to update a
> "table of contents" page -- the table of contents is generated
> automatically using WebDAV properties and XSLT.  I think that's neat.

Yep, it is.

>      You could probably do similar things with a collapsible menu, and
> other formats.
>
> > All the work which has to be done before 1.0 is mentioned in the
STATUS.html
> > and RELEASE-PLAN files. Proppatch is mentioned in the Webdav Server
section,
> > so I'm working on it ;-)
>
>      Oooops.  I failed the RTFM test!

Hehe ;-)

> Remy Maucherat wrote:
> >
> > I'll be really happy to be able to connect Slide to as many versioning
> > repositories as possible, which means writing appropriate Stores
> > implementation. Hopefully, there is no huge design flaw in the
> > DescriptorsStore interface and the object model which would prevent
this. If
> > there is, it probably wouldn't be too hard to fix it.
>
>      Once I understand the slide API a bit better, I'd be willing to
> try to connect it with PVCS.  Heck, I've got a head start on the PVCS
> side...

That would be great !
I guess another thing to add in the long term todo (along with the process
engine) is a CVS implementation.

> > Speaking of DAV4J, I haven't seen a release since quite a long time. Do
you
> > know what its status is ?
>
>      Dead, I believe.  I eventually convinced my IBM software rep to
> hunt down the author; he pretty much confirmed that IBM has dropped
> DAV4J.  I was left with the impression that IBM was giving the code
> over to the Apache group, so it was a bit of a surprise for me to
> discover that the slide project has different roots.

It probably involves a major effort (and an army of lawyers) each time a
huge corporation like IBM donates a piece of software. So I guess they
thought it was not worth the trouble. Just my $0.02, though.

Remy

Re: Properties?

["B.C. Holmes" <bc...@interlog.com>]

Remy Maucherat wrote:
> 
> I didn't code Proppatch yet (sorry). That's only because I didn't find any
> DAV Client so far using that method. Many servers don't handle Proppatch at
> all, and I don't know if IIS does

     I'm pretty sure that IIS supports it, but not 100% sure.  mod_dav
definitely supports PROPPATCH/PROPFIND.

     I think there's some really cool stuff you can do with properties
and content management.  One of the things that enterprises want to do
with content management systems, for example, is manage sitemaps and
drop down menus.

     Assume that any worthy WebDAV repository understands the Dublin
Core properties (TITLE, CREATOR, etc.).  You can get a site map of
your web server by sending a PROPFIND to the root, and retrieving the
properties as an XML document.  Then use XSLT to manipulate those
properties into an easy-to-read list of the documents on a server (by
selecting out the TITLE property).

     This sort of function is ideal for sites that add new pages in
dribs and drabs, such as an online magazine.  Nobody has to update a
"table of contents" page -- the table of contents is generated
automatically using WebDAV properties and XSLT.  I think that's neat.

     You could probably do similar things with a collapsible menu, and
other formats.

> All the work which has to be done before 1.0 is mentioned in the STATUS.html
> and RELEASE-PLAN files. Proppatch is mentioned in the Webdav Server section,
> so I'm working on it ;-)

     Oooops.  I failed the RTFM test!

BCing you
-- 
B.C. Holmes         \u2625         http://www.interlog.com/~bcholmes/
"You know how deep some things are, and it's just impossible to get
 them out?  It all gets jumbled up inside.  Love, hate, nightmares...
 dreams.  Then you meet somebody you think will understand, but you
 don't know what to say.  Then you're afraid to say anything."
            - _Strangers in Paradise_

Re: New apache module for webDAV

["B.C. Holmes" <bc...@interlog.com>]

Remy Maucherat wrote:
> 
> I'll be really happy to be able to connect Slide to as many versioning
> repositories as possible, which means writing appropriate Stores
> implementation. Hopefully, there is no huge design flaw in the
> DescriptorsStore interface and the object model which would prevent this. If
> there is, it probably wouldn't be too hard to fix it.

     Once I understand the slide API a bit better, I'd be willing to
try to connect it with PVCS.  Heck, I've got a head start on the PVCS
side...
 
> Speaking of DAV4J, I haven't seen a release since quite a long time. Do you
> know what its status is ?

     Dead, I believe.  I eventually convinced my IBM software rep to
hunt down the author; he pretty much confirmed that IBM has dropped
DAV4J.  I was left with the impression that IBM was giving the code
over to the Apache group, so it was a bit of a surprise for me to
discover that the slide project has different roots.

BCing you
-- 
B.C. Holmes         \u2625         http://www.interlog.com/~bcholmes/
"You know how deep some things are, and it's just impossible to get
 them out?  It all gets jumbled up inside.  Love, hate, nightmares...
 dreams.  Then you meet somebody you think will understand, but you
 don't know what to say.  Then you're afraid to say anything."
            - _Strangers in Paradise_

Re: New apache module for webDAV

[Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>]

>      And earlier versions have been around for quite some time.  It's
> good for file system-based WebDAV.

Yep, but it's nice that it will be included in the Apache 2.0 distribution.
I guess it's to stay competitive feature-wise with IIS.

> > - Slide has a broader scope (it's also a content management API, WebDAV
is
> > just a way to access the data managed by Slide)
>
>      I also think that for people who want to connect Slide with a
> formal repository, a Java-based programming environment is a heck of a
> lot easier to work with than C.
>
>      I was recently attempting to connect IBM's DAV4J package with
> Merant's PVCS Version Manager product, for example, so that my
> co-workers could use Web Folders to put stuff into the repository (a
> messy failure, 'cause DAV4J doesn't work as advertised).  If Slide had
> been around, then, I would have gone that route.

I'll be really happy to be able to connect Slide to as many versioning
repositories as possible, which means writing appropriate Stores
implementation. Hopefully, there is no huge design flaw in the
DescriptorsStore interface and the object model which would prevent this. If
there is, it probably wouldn't be too hard to fix it.

Speaking of DAV4J, I haven't seen a release since quite a long time. Do you
know what its status is ?

Remy

Re: New apache module for webDAV

["B.C. Holmes" <bc...@interlog.com>]

Remy Maucherat wrote:
> 
> > I saw on freshmeat today that a webDAV module for apache that is going to
> be
> > included with apache 2.0 is "golden" or released to the public.
> 
> Actually, mod_dav 1.0 was released a few days ago.

     And earlier versions have been around for quite some time.  It's
good for file system-based WebDAV.
 
> > Does this
> > module not compete with the effort and thus diminishes its impact?  I
> there
> > something more to be offered in the slide effort than this module?  Excuse
> > the ignorance but just like to point out what I saw today.
> 
> Some functionality is overlapping, but :
> - Choice is good :-)
> - Slide has a broader scope (it's also a content management API, WebDAV is
> just a way to access the data managed by Slide)

     I also think that for people who want to connect Slide with a
formal repository, a Java-based programming environment is a heck of a
lot easier to work with than C.

     I was recently attempting to connect IBM's DAV4J package with
Merant's PVCS Version Manager product, for example, so that my
co-workers could use Web Folders to put stuff into the repository (a
messy failure, 'cause DAV4J doesn't work as advertised).  If Slide had
been around, then, I would have gone that route.

BCing you
-- 
B.C. Holmes         \u2625         http://www.interlog.com/~bcholmes/
"You know how deep some things are, and it's just impossible to get
 them out?  It all gets jumbled up inside.  Love, hate, nightmares...
 dreams.  Then you meet somebody you think will understand, but you
 don't know what to say.  Then you're afraid to say anything."
            - _Strangers in Paradise_

Re: New apache module for webDAV

[Remy Maucherat <re...@exoffice.com>]

> I saw on freshmeat today that a webDAV module for apache that is going to
be
> included with apache 2.0 is "golden" or released to the public.

Actually, mod_dav 1.0 was released a few days ago.

> Does this
> module not compete with the effort and thus diminishes its impact?  I
there
> something more to be offered in the slide effort than this module?  Excuse
> the ignorance but just like to point out what I saw today.

Some functionality is overlapping, but :
- Choice is good :-)
- Slide has a broader scope (it's also a content management API, WebDAV is
just a way to access the data managed by Slide)
- It can be run on almost everything

Remy

New apache module for webDAV

[Brian C Hand <br...@earthlink.net>]

I saw on freshmeat today that a webDAV module for apache that is going to be
included with apache 2.0 is "golden" or released to the public.  Does this
module not compete with the effort and thus diminishes its impact?  I there
something more to be offered in the slide effort than this module?  Excuse
the ignorance but just like to point out what I saw today.

Thanks
Brian

Re: Properties?

[Remy Maucherat <re...@exoffice.com>]

> Hi Remy,
>
>       Thanks for your response!
>
> Remy Maucherat wrote:
> >
> > Right now, Slide is something like a powerful filesystem. It deals with
:
> > - ACLs
> > - locking
> > - versioning
> > - (eventually) indexing
>
>      Kewl.  I've downloaded bunches of the source code to take a
> look.  When you say "(eventually) indexing", are you referring to
> properties?  (I didn't see what I was expecting in the PROPPATCH
> method -- are properties a later requirement?)

I intend to support indexing of metadata, ie properties (I suppose that's
the whole point of metadata, right ?).
In the current DASL spec, I think content searching is optional (correct me
if I'm wrong, as I only spent 5 mins total reading it).

I didn't code Proppatch yet (sorry). That's only because I didn't find any
DAV Client so far using that method. Many servers don't handle Proppatch at
all, and I don't know if IIS does
My own DAV client library will support Proppatch, and I will finish DAV
level 2 compliance just after that. I will then release the first packaged
version of Slide (0.9).
All the work which has to be done before 1.0 is mentioned in the STATUS.html
and RELEASE-PLAN files. Proppatch is mentioned in the Webdav Server section,
so I'm working on it ;-)

Remy