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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Jostein Christoffer Andersen <jo...@josander.net> on 2002/05/01 13:06:01 UTC
Re: visual client
On torsdag 02 mai 2002, 02.20, Paul Marculescu wrote:
> I'm starting to work on a visual client for Subversion in wxwindows,
> so that the same code could be ported on many platforms.
> Any guidelines, suggestions, remarks would be highly appreciated.
Great, thanks!
In a nut shell:
* The ease of use as cervicia (kde2/3). cervisia covers
90% of my needs.
* The power of Wincvs
Jostein :-)
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Re: visual client (Windows dedicated)
Posted by Martijn Boekhorst <MB...@xs4all.nl>.
With all this discussion about a visual client, it's time for me to unlurk
from the shadows.
I'm working on a client for windows, quite briefly the featurelist is to
include the following :
- merge and diff displays; three-way merge for conflicts.
- hierarchical display of working copy.
- syntax sensitive highlighting (something of a religious thing for me)
Given that it is nowhere near to being released or even remotely usable at
this point, I've been lurking until I've got something to show for myself.
However, with work starting on a wxWindows version, I thought it wise to
mention that there's another little windows dedicated tool too.
Goal is not compile-level portability, I'd imagine a port of this tool to be
quite a bit more involved. GUI code is mixture of Win32 and MFC.
Focus is on simplicity of use (to draw more people to using subversion - also
non-Unix-inclined developers), not feature-completeness, with a good GUI
(hence Win32 specific since you can "jelly" the GUI more that way).
I'll dump an URL on the list once it's even remotely usable (if only as a
diff tool).
Cheers, Martijn Boekhorst.
On Thursday 02 May 2002 05:58 am, you wrote:
> Hey
>
> > > IMO, WinCVS has *TOO* many options. It simply exposes the CVS commands
> > > and switches without any regard to how the user wants to actually
> > > interact with their files/dirs. It is truly an awful piece of software.
> >
> > Yes, I agree fully. It would IMHO be much better to look at TortoiseCVS
> > (http://www.tortoisecvs.org/) for inspiration, which is a very nice
> > program which integrates with Explorer as a shell extension. You don't
> > have access to every single feature of CVS (which you get with WinCVS)
> > but it's more than enough for day to day use.
>
> I tried tortoisecvs a few months ago and I really liked it for basic daily
> stuff. I think I was running version .44. However it would cause explorer
> errors to pop up when I did find files. I pulled it for now. I went to
> the site again and they have been quite active so maybe it's worth another
> go at it.
>
> It uses wxWindows which I think was mentioned in this thread.
>
> And they are using ViewCVS so it must be good stuff :-)
> gat
>
>
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Re: visual client
Posted by Jeff Martin <je...@mkodo.com>.
But WinCVS does have something that TortoiseCVS doesn't. Flat Mode being
able to see all the change files in a whole source tree in one place is
a very useful thing. Stops that whole forgetting to check one crucial
file in business.
Something that just showed a list of all the changed files in the whole
tree would be a good way to go IMHO. Do people really care about a the
changes in a single dir?
On Wed, 2002-05-01 at 21:08, Adam Chodorowski wrote:
> On Wed, 1 May 2002 12:54:18 -0700 Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org> wrote:
>
> [Deactivating LURK mode]
>
> Hi...
>
> > IMO, WinCVS has *TOO* many options. It simply exposes the CVS commands and
> > switches without any regard to how the user wants to actually interact with
> > their files/dirs. It is truly an awful piece of software.
>
> Yes, I agree fully. It would IMHO be much better to look at TortoiseCVS
> (http://www.tortoisecvs.org/) for inspiration, which is a very nice program
> which integrates with Explorer as a shell extension. You don't have access to
> every single feature of CVS (which you get with WinCVS) but it's more than
> enough for day to day use.
>
> ---
> Adam Chodorowski <ad...@chodorowski.com>
>
> Microsoft doesn't make hardware, and you can't have failed to notice
> that it's been not making quite a bit of hardware recently. It has for
> example been not making the Xbox, not making Stinger and - just this
> week - not making Tablet PCs.
> -- John Lettice / The Register
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: visual client
Posted by "Glenn A. Thompson" <gt...@cdr.net>.
Hey
>
> > IMO, WinCVS has *TOO* many options. It simply exposes the CVS commands and
> > switches without any regard to how the user wants to actually interact with
> > their files/dirs. It is truly an awful piece of software.
>
> Yes, I agree fully. It would IMHO be much better to look at TortoiseCVS
> (http://www.tortoisecvs.org/) for inspiration, which is a very nice program
> which integrates with Explorer as a shell extension. You don't have access to
> every single feature of CVS (which you get with WinCVS) but it's more than
> enough for day to day use.
I tried tortoisecvs a few months ago and I really liked it for basic daily
stuff. I think I was running version .44. However it would cause explorer
errors to pop up when I did find files. I pulled it for now. I went to the site
again and they have been quite active so maybe it's worth another go at it.
It uses wxWindows which I think was mentioned in this thread.
And they are using ViewCVS so it must be good stuff :-)
gat
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Re: visual client
Posted by Adam Chodorowski <ad...@chodorowski.com>.
On Wed, 1 May 2002 12:54:18 -0700 Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org> wrote:
[Deactivating LURK mode]
Hi...
> IMO, WinCVS has *TOO* many options. It simply exposes the CVS commands and
> switches without any regard to how the user wants to actually interact with
> their files/dirs. It is truly an awful piece of software.
Yes, I agree fully. It would IMHO be much better to look at TortoiseCVS
(http://www.tortoisecvs.org/) for inspiration, which is a very nice program
which integrates with Explorer as a shell extension. You don't have access to
every single feature of CVS (which you get with WinCVS) but it's more than
enough for day to day use.
---
Adam Chodorowski <ad...@chodorowski.com>
Microsoft doesn't make hardware, and you can't have failed to notice
that it's been not making quite a bit of hardware recently. It has for
example been not making the Xbox, not making Stinger and - just this
week - not making Tablet PCs.
-- John Lettice / The Register
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Re: visual client
Posted by Charles Wilson <pa...@acm.org>.
At 11:20 PM +0200 05/02/2002, Paul Marculescu wrote:
>Greg Stein wrote:
>>
>> IMO, WinCVS has *TOO* many options. It simply exposes the CVS commands and
>> switches without any regard to how the user wants to actually interact with
>> their files/dirs. It is truly an awful piece of software.
>
>WinCVS is actually a translator between user's clicks and cvs commands.
>It's not its fault, as cvs didn't expose an API. So, I think there was
>no other way to provide all cvs functions other than it already is.
I would have to disagree. The CVS API is exposed as the client-server
protocol. WinCVS made the decision to work with local repositories
and so couldn't use it. A purely client-server version could be
created. Several years ago I worked on one.
--
- charles
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Re: visual client
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>.
On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 11:20:02PM +0200, Paul Marculescu wrote:
> Greg Stein wrote:
> > IMO, WinCVS has *TOO* many options. It simply exposes the CVS commands and
> > switches without any regard to how the user wants to actually interact with
> > their files/dirs. It is truly an awful piece of software.
>
> WinCVS is actually a translator between user's clicks and cvs commands.
And that is the entire problem. It is just a fancy way to use the command
line. It *should* have a user model that relates to the GUI rather than a
user model that relates to the command line.
But hey... this is just me ranting. :-)
Cheers,
-g
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
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Re: visual client
Posted by Paul Marculescu <pa...@p16.pub.ro>.
Greg Stein wrote:
>
> IMO, WinCVS has *TOO* many options. It simply exposes the CVS commands and
> switches without any regard to how the user wants to actually interact with
> their files/dirs. It is truly an awful piece of software.
WinCVS is actually a translator between user's clicks and cvs commands.
It's not its fault, as cvs didn't expose an API. So, I think there was
no other way to provide all cvs functions other than it already is. I
like WinCVS because I can easily view changed files, branches etc and I
don't think it's awful at all. My only complain is that it only runs on
Windows.
> Are you planning to invoke the 'svn' client, or bind straight to the
> libraries? I would highly recommend the latter.
Of course I intend to use the libraries. It would be a shame not to use
the APIs exposed.
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>
> On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 10:03:17AM +0200, Paul Marculescu wrote:
> > Yes, Cervisia is kind of good looking and WinCVS has a lot of options.
> > I thought of using the same interface as in WinCVS, but some things have
> > to be different, I think, as there are versions on folder trees. In this
> > spirit, is the Revision column in WinCVS redundant for files (in this
> > case) or my knowledges of subversion are limited?
> >
> > Jostein Christoffer Andersen wrote:
> >
> > > On torsdag 02 mai 2002, 02.20, Paul Marculescu wrote:
> > > > I'm starting to work on a visual client for Subversion in wxwindows,
> > > > so that the same code could be ported on many platforms.
> > > > Any guidelines, suggestions, remarks would be highly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Great, thanks!
> > >
> > > In a nut shell:
> > > * The ease of use as cervicia (kde2/3). cervisia covers
> > > 90% of my needs.
> > > * The power of Wincvs
> > >
> > > Jostein :-)
>
> --
> Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
>
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Re: visual client
Posted by Marcus Comstedt <ma...@mc.pp.se>.
Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org> writes:
> The caller [to the SVN libraries] is responsible for converting all
> arguments into UTF-8 and to use '/' for separators.
And reversely for results presumably. :-)
Is somebody looking att inserting the necessary iconv calls in the
commandline client, or should I claim that as a byte-sized task?
// Marcus
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Re: visual client
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>.
On Wed, May 01, 2002 at 10:10:35PM +0200, Marcus Comstedt wrote:
>...
> Before encouraging people to bind new applications to the libraries,
> perhaps resolving the issue of where UTF-8 conversion is supposed to
> take place would be a good idea? Or is that already specified?
The caller [to the SVN libraries] is responsible for converting all
arguments into UTF-8 and to use '/' for separators.
And to answer the next question: no, this is not formally documented (yet).
Cheers,
-g
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
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Re: visual client
Posted by Marcus Comstedt <ma...@mc.pp.se>.
Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org> writes:
> IMO, WinCVS has *TOO* many options. It simply exposes the CVS commands and
> switches without any regard to how the user wants to actually interact with
> their files/dirs. It is truly an awful piece of software.
>
> Are you planning to invoke the 'svn' client, or bind straight to the
> libraries? I would highly recommend the latter.
Before encouraging people to bind new applications to the libraries,
perhaps resolving the issue of where UTF-8 conversion is supposed to
take place would be a good idea? Or is that already specified?
// Marcus
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RE: visual client
Posted by Barry Scott <ba...@ntlworld.com>.
I tried to use WinCVS but gave up and use CVS from the command line.
The thing I could never figure out is how to configure it to know about
more then one cvs repository. Its docs don't help and the GUI helps less.
Now I'm sure it can be done, but life too short. On the command line this
is trivia to do.
You must design a user model that is implemented in the GUI as Greg said.
BArry
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Marculescu [mailto:paul@p16.pub.ro]
> Sent: 02 May 2002 23:08
> To: dev@subversion.tigris.org
> Subject: Re: visual client
>
>
>
>
> Kevin Galligan wrote:
> >
> > More on WinCVS (it just keeps going and going). WinCVS, to me anyway, is
> > like emacs. There are a million things it can do, and you only ever use
> > three of them.
>
> It's exactly the number of things you can do with the command line
> client. Anyway, I find WinCVS's usability level satisfactory: I want to
> tag a working copy I click on tag, I can easily see the history tree
> (including branches) for a file, I can query an update, I can select 2
> revisions in this tree and diff them etc. Yes, there are some problems,
> but I think it is easy to use.
>
> >
> > I've been looking into doing a subversion client for a little while but
> > haven't really done anything yet. I have a couple questions about wxwindows
> > actually. I looked at the web site quickly. I fail to see how you could
> > add more complicated or custom controls if you ever needed them. Then again
> > maybe you wouldn't need them. Also, hows the performance?
>
> I don't know about custom controls in wxwindows. You should post the
> question on wx-users@lists.wxwindows.org to get more accurate
> information. Anyway, you should make some compromises if you want the
> application to be portable. I used wxwindows (and also subversion) only
> on windows, where I know they are using SDK as the core implementation
> and on platforms where some controls are missing they emulate them.
>
> >
> > -Kevin
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter Davis" <pe...@pdavis.cx>
> > To: <de...@subversion.tigris.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 4:22 PM
> > Subject: Re: visual client
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On Wednesday 01 May 2002 12:54, Greg Stein wrote:
> > > IMO, WinCVS has *TOO* many options. It simply exposes the CVS commands and
> > > switches without any regard to how the user wants to actually interact
> > with
> > > their files/dirs. It is truly an awful piece of software.
> >
> > If I were making this program, I'd look at WinCVS to get the list of things
> > the program needs to do, but nothing more. WinCVS is *way* too complicated,
> > and for me it's simpler just to use the command line. WinCVS is also the
> > number one reason why we ended up using Visual Source Safe at my last job --
> >
> > I suggested CVS (before Subversion was around, of course), but my bosses
> > wanted a GUI and WinCVS sucked too much. Like you said, it is a truly
> > awsome^H^H^H^Hful piece of software :)
> >
> > - --
> > Peter Davis
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
> > Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
> >
> > iD8DBQE80E6DNSZCJx7tYycRAm38AKCFStul+t+s35tE7noj0DfaxmwFRQCdHt3D
> > iZ1kCQM+0NCBpZu5gDUclQE=
> > =E2hr
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
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>
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Re: visual client
Posted by Paul Marculescu <pa...@p16.pub.ro>.
Kevin Galligan wrote:
>
> More on WinCVS (it just keeps going and going). WinCVS, to me anyway, is
> like emacs. There are a million things it can do, and you only ever use
> three of them.
It's exactly the number of things you can do with the command line
client. Anyway, I find WinCVS's usability level satisfactory: I want to
tag a working copy I click on tag, I can easily see the history tree
(including branches) for a file, I can query an update, I can select 2
revisions in this tree and diff them etc. Yes, there are some problems,
but I think it is easy to use.
>
> I've been looking into doing a subversion client for a little while but
> haven't really done anything yet. I have a couple questions about wxwindows
> actually. I looked at the web site quickly. I fail to see how you could
> add more complicated or custom controls if you ever needed them. Then again
> maybe you wouldn't need them. Also, hows the performance?
I don't know about custom controls in wxwindows. You should post the
question on wx-users@lists.wxwindows.org to get more accurate
information. Anyway, you should make some compromises if you want the
application to be portable. I used wxwindows (and also subversion) only
on windows, where I know they are using SDK as the core implementation
and on platforms where some controls are missing they emulate them.
>
> -Kevin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Davis" <pe...@pdavis.cx>
> To: <de...@subversion.tigris.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 4:22 PM
> Subject: Re: visual client
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Wednesday 01 May 2002 12:54, Greg Stein wrote:
> > IMO, WinCVS has *TOO* many options. It simply exposes the CVS commands and
> > switches without any regard to how the user wants to actually interact
> with
> > their files/dirs. It is truly an awful piece of software.
>
> If I were making this program, I'd look at WinCVS to get the list of things
> the program needs to do, but nothing more. WinCVS is *way* too complicated,
> and for me it's simpler just to use the command line. WinCVS is also the
> number one reason why we ended up using Visual Source Safe at my last job --
>
> I suggested CVS (before Subversion was around, of course), but my bosses
> wanted a GUI and WinCVS sucked too much. Like you said, it is a truly
> awsome^H^H^H^Hful piece of software :)
>
> - --
> Peter Davis
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
>
> iD8DBQE80E6DNSZCJx7tYycRAm38AKCFStul+t+s35tE7noj0DfaxmwFRQCdHt3D
> iZ1kCQM+0NCBpZu5gDUclQE=
> =E2hr
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
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Re: visual client
Posted by Kevin Galligan <ga...@objice.com>.
More on WinCVS (it just keeps going and going). WinCVS, to me anyway, is
like emacs. There are a million things it can do, and you only ever use
three of them. Also, and this probably has more to do with CVS than the
client, some of them really don't seem correct for the task at hand.
Take for instance what happened to me a couple days ago. I wanted to import
a sub-directory of something that's already in the repository. A good
client would notice the directory in there that's not in the repos, and
right-clicking on it would offer the option to import. Instead I had to try
and run the import command. I got things wrong on the first try and it
imported them in the wrong place. Then, after I did it again, I had to
delete the originals to check the files out.
At the same time, I use WinCVS and prefer it to other cvs clients I've
tried. Go figure.
I've been looking into doing a subversion client for a little while but
haven't really done anything yet. I have a couple questions about wxwindows
actually. I looked at the web site quickly. I fail to see how you could
add more complicated or custom controls if you ever needed them. Then again
maybe you wouldn't need them. Also, hows the performance?
-Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Davis" <pe...@pdavis.cx>
To: <de...@subversion.tigris.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: visual client
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Wednesday 01 May 2002 12:54, Greg Stein wrote:
> IMO, WinCVS has *TOO* many options. It simply exposes the CVS commands and
> switches without any regard to how the user wants to actually interact
with
> their files/dirs. It is truly an awful piece of software.
If I were making this program, I'd look at WinCVS to get the list of things
the program needs to do, but nothing more. WinCVS is *way* too complicated,
and for me it's simpler just to use the command line. WinCVS is also the
number one reason why we ended up using Visual Source Safe at my last job --
I suggested CVS (before Subversion was around, of course), but my bosses
wanted a GUI and WinCVS sucked too much. Like you said, it is a truly
awsome^H^H^H^Hful piece of software :)
- --
Peter Davis
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
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iZ1kCQM+0NCBpZu5gDUclQE=
=E2hr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Re: visual client
Posted by Peter Davis <pe...@pdavis.cx>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Wednesday 01 May 2002 12:54, Greg Stein wrote:
> IMO, WinCVS has *TOO* many options. It simply exposes the CVS commands and
> switches without any regard to how the user wants to actually interact with
> their files/dirs. It is truly an awful piece of software.
If I were making this program, I'd look at WinCVS to get the list of things
the program needs to do, but nothing more. WinCVS is *way* too complicated,
and for me it's simpler just to use the command line. WinCVS is also the
number one reason why we ended up using Visual Source Safe at my last job --
I suggested CVS (before Subversion was around, of course), but my bosses
wanted a GUI and WinCVS sucked too much. Like you said, it is a truly
awsome^H^H^H^Hful piece of software :)
- --
Peter Davis
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE80E6DNSZCJx7tYycRAm38AKCFStul+t+s35tE7noj0DfaxmwFRQCdHt3D
iZ1kCQM+0NCBpZu5gDUclQE=
=E2hr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Re: visual client
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>.
IMO, WinCVS has *TOO* many options. It simply exposes the CVS commands and
switches without any regard to how the user wants to actually interact with
their files/dirs. It is truly an awful piece of software.
Are you planning to invoke the 'svn' client, or bind straight to the
libraries? I would highly recommend the latter.
Cheers,
-g
On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 10:03:17AM +0200, Paul Marculescu wrote:
> Yes, Cervisia is kind of good looking and WinCVS has a lot of options.
> I thought of using the same interface as in WinCVS, but some things have
> to be different, I think, as there are versions on folder trees. In this
> spirit, is the Revision column in WinCVS redundant for files (in this
> case) or my knowledges of subversion are limited?
>
> Jostein Christoffer Andersen wrote:
>
> > On torsdag 02 mai 2002, 02.20, Paul Marculescu wrote:
> > > I'm starting to work on a visual client for Subversion in wxwindows,
> > > so that the same code could be ported on many platforms.
> > > Any guidelines, suggestions, remarks would be highly appreciated.
> >
> > Great, thanks!
> >
> > In a nut shell:
> > * The ease of use as cervicia (kde2/3). cervisia covers
> > 90% of my needs.
> > * The power of Wincvs
> >
> > Jostein :-)
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
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Re: visual client
Posted by Paul Marculescu <pa...@p16.pub.ro>.
Yes, Cervisia is kind of good looking and WinCVS has a lot of options.
I thought of using the same interface as in WinCVS, but some things have
to be different, I think, as there are versions on folder trees. In this
spirit, is the Revision column in WinCVS redundant for files (in this
case) or my knowledges of subversion are limited?
Jostein Christoffer Andersen wrote:
> On torsdag 02 mai 2002, 02.20, Paul Marculescu wrote:
> > I'm starting to work on a visual client for Subversion in wxwindows,
> > so that the same code could be ported on many platforms.
> > Any guidelines, suggestions, remarks would be highly appreciated.
>
> Great, thanks!
>
> In a nut shell:
> * The ease of use as cervicia (kde2/3). cervisia covers
> 90% of my needs.
> * The power of Wincvs
>
> Jostein :-)
>
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