Re: [DISCUSS] Becoming a Committer

[Mike Drob <md...@apache.org>]

Hi all,

There was a lot of engagement on this discussion on the mailing list, but
less so on the JIRA. Can interested folks make some time to take a look?

I'd like to make sure that we have a lot of buy in before adding this
content to the official docs, since it impacts the entire community.

Thanks,
Mike

On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Mike Drob <md...@apache.org> wrote:

> Yep, filed https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HBASE-18974 to track
> adding to the docs.
>
> On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 7:20 AM, Chia-Ping Tsai <ch...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> The is a great discussion. And i love misty's list.
>> Don't let this die. What about putting the summary in our docs?
>>
>> --
>> Chia-Ping
>>
>> On 2017-09-30 02:34, Andrew Purtell <ap...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > This conversation is in a good place. I apologize for the tone of my
>> > earlier allergic reaction but not the content. I hope that is
>> acceptable.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 11:01 AM, Mike Drob <md...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > To bounce off of what Yu Li said earlier - I see Hadoop has adopted
>> very
>> > > similar language to the Spark list:
>> > > http://hadoop.apache.org/committer_criteria.html
>> > >
>> > > I especially like the examples at the bottom. They are four diverse
>> paths,
>> > > and there is no expectation that this is an exclusive list. If we
>> were to
>> > > write our own, I think it should reflect Andrew's highlighting of the
>> > > non-professional contributor's path. And also important is to include
>> the
>> > > soft skills from Misty's list.
>> > >
>> > > Mike
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 5:07 PM, Stack <st...@duboce.net> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Good discussion. Thanks Mike for kicking it off.
>> > > >
>> > > > The Misty list is great.
>> > > >
>> > > > I find myself giving double kudos for non-code or feature contribs;
>> e.g.
>> > > > stuff like test-fixing, patches that fix bugs found in production or
>> > > > patches from operators that ease their day-to-day burden, voting on
>> > > > releases, doc., (useful, encouraging, deep, helpful) review of the
>> work
>> > > of
>> > > > others, etc. (I'd love it if someone took ownership of our website
>> --
>> > > hint,
>> > > > hint).
>> > > >
>> > > > Sean has a dictum, paraphrasing, "...the fastest route to
>> commitership is
>> > > > doing what no one else wants to do" (Did I mangle that Busbey?),
>> which I
>> > > > like.
>> > > >
>> > > > While Andrew may have misjudged Mike Drob's original intent, I
>> appreciate
>> > > > his rallying to the cause of the non-professional contributor and
>> his
>> > > > reaction to (mis-perceived) call for quantification (For a classic
>> on the
>> > > > problems that arise when hard-and-fast rules, see [2]). I'm with him
>> > > > defending PMC right to give 'spirit' and 'gut' precedence over
>> 'rules'
>> > > > (Often, it *is* just a case of you know it when you see it). And as
>> per
>> > > > Andy, if perceived injustice or bias, please write here or
>> private@hbase.
>> > > >
>> > > > Lets keep dumping on this thread. We can then summarize and make it
>> easy
>> > > > for prospectives to find (can also add links to stuff such as the
>> recent
>> > > > Wang+Leblang talk at ApacheCon [1] and Andrew's write up for how to
>> be a
>> > > > committer on Hadoop as background).
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks,
>> > > > St.Ack
>> > > >
>> > > > 1.
>> > > > https://apachecon2017.sched.com/event/9zv3/a-tale-of-two-
>> > > > developers-finding-harmony-between-commercial-software-
>> > > > development-and-the-apache-way-andrew-wang-alex-leblang-cloudera
>> > > > 2.
>> > > > https://books.google.com/books/about/Seeing_Like_a_
>> > > > State.html?id=PqcPCgsr2u0C
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 4:08 PM, Zach York <
>> zyork.contribution@gmail.com
>> > > >
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > bq. As a
>> > > > > relatively new member in the HBase community and a non-committer,
>> once
>> > > > the
>> > > > > new member decides that he/ she wants to become a Committer, it
>> will be
>> > > > > helpful to have a list of PMC members that he/ she can
>> communicate with
>> > > > and
>> > > > > get feedback from time to time. Feedback may include potential
>> > > > adjustments
>> > > > > and rough idea about progress towards the goal.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > This sounds like a good idea! Ideally, if you interact with the
>> > > community
>> > > > > often enough, you should be building connections, but it nevers
>> hurts
>> > > to
>> > > > > have someone to check how they perceive your work.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > bq. For others, having
>> > > > > this list of volunteer mentors, will surely help.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Again I agree. This part is especially important as it is hard to
>> judge
>> > > > > your progress if you don't have someone at the same company to
>> converse
>> > > > > with.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Umesh Agashe <
>> uagashe@cloudera.com>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Hi,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Thank you all for a good discussion here. Issues with both
>> having and
>> > > > NOT
>> > > > > > having documented specific criteria are well articulated here.
>> As a
>> > > > > > relatively new member in the HBase community and a
>> non-committer,
>> > > once
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > new member decides that he/ she wants to become a Committer, it
>> will
>> > > be
>> > > > > > helpful to have a list of PMC members that he/ she can
>> communicate
>> > > with
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > > get feedback from time to time. Feedback may include potential
>> > > > > adjustments
>> > > > > > and rough idea about progress towards the goal. Paid
>> professionals
>> > > who
>> > > > > are
>> > > > > > working with PMC members, can talk to their colleagues. For
>> others,
>> > > > > having
>> > > > > > this list of volunteer mentors, will surely help. IMHO, this
>> will
>> > > make
>> > > > > > process a bit more transparent. I would like to know your
>> thoughts on
>> > > > > this.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Thanks,
>> > > > > > Umesh
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 1:41 PM, Misty Stanley-Jones <
>> > > misty@apache.org
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I feel like I inject this note into all discussions like
>> this, but
>> > > > I'm
>> > > > > > > going to do it again. "Act like a committer" does not ONLY
>> mean to
>> > > > > > produce
>> > > > > > > code for HBase. It means to support the project. This may
>> mean any
>> > > of
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > following, plus a long list of other things I'm sure I'm not
>> > > thinking
>> > > > > of
>> > > > > > > right now:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > - Contribute to the docs (yay!)
>> > > > > > > - Help fix and improve testing
>> > > > > > > - Participate in release candidate votes, even if non-binding
>> > > > > > > - Review other people's work
>> > > > > > > - Help newbies
>> > > > > > > - Answer questions
>> > > > > > > - Update the website
>> > > > > > > - File issues
>> > > > > > > - Mentor new contributors of all sorts
>> > > > > > > - Give talks about HBase
>> > > > > > > - Write blogs about HBase
>> > > > > > > - Participate in design discussions
>> > > > > > > - Provide UX feedback
>> > > > > > > - Write demo applications
>> > > > > > > - Help us attract and retain a diverse community
>> > > > > > > - Interact with other projects in ways that benefit HBase and
>> those
>> > > > > other
>> > > > > > > projects
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I would personally consider all of these bullet points to be
>> super
>> > > > > > > significant in "act like a committer" type discussions. I
>> think
>> > > that
>> > > > > > > contributing code is only one aspect. For some reason it
>> seems to
>> > > be
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > most appealing aspect to lots of people, but IMHO that makes
>> for a
>> > > > poor
>> > > > > > > community experience.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Mike Drob <mdrob@apache.org
>> >
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >  Hi folks,
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > I've been chatting with folks off and on about this for a
>> while,
>> > > > and
>> > > > > > was
>> > > > > > > > told that this made sense as a discussion on the dev@ list.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > How does the PMC select folks for committership? The most
>> common
>> > > > > answer
>> > > > > > > is
>> > > > > > > > that folks should 'act like a committer' but that's
>> painfully
>> > > > > nebulous
>> > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > easy to get sidetracked onto other topics. The problem is
>> > > > compounded
>> > > > > > > > because what may be great on one project is inconsistently
>> > > applied
>> > > > on
>> > > > > > > other
>> > > > > > > > projects in the ASF, and yet we are all very tightly
>> coupled as
>> > > > > > > communities
>> > > > > > > > and as project dependencies.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Ideally, this is something that we can document in the book.
>> > > Misty
>> > > > > > gently
>> > > > > > > > pointed out http://hbase.apache.org/book.h
>> tml#_guide_for_hbase_
>> > > > > > > committers
>> > > > > > > > but
>> > > > > > > > also noted that it's for what happens after somebody
>> becomes a
>> > > > > > committer.
>> > > > > > > > Still, if the standard is "act like one until you become
>> one"
>> > > then
>> > > > > it's
>> > > > > > > > useful reading for people. Also, there doesn't seem to be
>> any
>> > > > > > guidelines
>> > > > > > > > like this for PMC.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Is the list of prerequisites possible to articulate, or
>> will it
>> > > > > always
>> > > > > > > boil
>> > > > > > > > down to "intangibles?" Is there a concern that providing a
>> > > > checklist
>> > > > > > > > (perhaps a list of items necessary, but not sufficient)
>> will lead
>> > > > to
>> > > > > > > folks
>> > > > > > > > motivated wrongly, similar to oft maligned "resume driven
>> > > > > development?"
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > I'll kick off the discussion by saying that my personal
>> yardstick
>> > > > of
>> > > > > > > "Can I
>> > > > > > > > trust this person's judgement regarding code/reviews" is
>> probably
>> > > > too
>> > > > > > > vague
>> > > > > > > > to be useful, and even worse is impossible for others to
>> apply.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Curiously,
>> > > > > > > > Mike
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Best regards,
>> > Andrew
>> >
>> > Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
>> > decrepit hands
>> >    - A23, Crosstalk
>> >
>>
>
>