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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> on 2011/06/16 14:48:12 UTC
Request for permission to use the OOo Trademark (was: Teams and Leads)
Reposting with a new subject line, and copying the appropriate
trademark's mailing list.
The relevant policy can be found here:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
- Sam Ruby
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 16 June 2011 12:00, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 6:47 AM, IngridvdM <In...@gmx-topmail.de>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I am really in favor of going without anyone being named leader or
>> manager
>> > or any name that could create the impression that this person has more
>> > rights than the others. Maybe we can choose 'contact' as a neutral
>> > description in case something turns out to be needed? Or is there even a
>> > more neutral word?
>>
>> The only 'contact' that people need for this project is
>> ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org.
>>
>> If this list grows too large or too busy, then we can create
>> additional 'contacts' in the form of more mailing lists.
>
>
> OK, sounds sensible to try using what already exists until there is a good
> reason not too :-)
>
> Let me test the system ;-)
>
> Alexandro Colorado and myself (both been involved with the OOo community for
> years) have been negotiating with a large training company to provide a
> community backed certification for OOo but with a vector to potentially 1500
> centres. I previously sought and was granted permission by Oracle to use the
> OOo branding on certificates. I guess we need community consensus here now,
> to carry on with that. There is quite a long history to all this and I
> declare a financial interest. I set up a UK government accredited awarding
> organisation (The Learning Machine Ltd) to enable a mechanism for funding
> FOSS and CC education development that was independent of licensing ie the
> business model is QA so no problem licensing any supporting stuff freely.
>
> To get started required investment so the only way to do that was to set up
> a for profit and sell shares. That together with EU grants has put well over
> £1m of investment into this. We have had some successes such as schools that
> started using our generic certification with MS products that have now
> switched to OOo. I can get the FOSS voice heard in influential government
> places. The strategy is in general to be product neutral but to use FOSS for
> all exemplars and supporting materials. This gives us a channel to get
> closed source users at least in contact with FOSS so there is a clear
> marketing strategy. With OOo certification we can say eg the WP certificate
> was achieved in the context of OOo Writer and put an OOo logo on the
> certificate. The assessment criteria are generic so we could do the same
> with LibO, Koffice etc. or indeed any FOSS software project, Inkscape, Gimp,
> Audacity etc. WE could even do professional Apache qualifications if there
> was a demand. Once we work out delivery costs (Its variable and depends on
> volume) we give a kick back to community funds in return for using the
> branding. We have the infrastructure in place using a LAMP stack for
> assessment and certification and Drupal for community support with dynamic
> links between the 2. Portal is at www.theingots.org. The acronym INGOT is
> International Grades - Open Technologies.
>
> We are accredited by Ofqual the UK national exam regulators and endorsed by
> the UK Sector Skills Council for Business and IT. All our qualifications are
> referenced to the European Qualifications Framework. We have 2 EU Transfer
> of innovation projects and we are monitored by all these so the community
> can have some confidence that we "know what we are doing". My background is
> that I was a UK School Inspection Team leader and assessor of the National
> Professional Qualification for Headteachers.
>
> So what I'm asking for is permission to use the OOo Trademark and general
> community support.
>
> Trying to keep this reasonably short so please feel free to ask any
> questions.
>
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> Wales.
>
Re: Request for permission to use the OOo Trademark (was: Teams and Leads)
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
Hi Ian,
Was this ever resolved? I think we had it on hold pending transfer of
the trademarks to Apache. Now that this has occurred, did you want to
renew your request?
-Rob
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:30 AM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 28 June 2011 02:30, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>
>> wrote:
>> > Just in case other folks missed the tie-in between the different threads:
>> > branding and trademark policy for all Apache projects is handled on the
>> > privately archived trademarks@apache.org mailing list. Apache policy is
>> set
>> > by the VP, Brand Management and the associated officer's committee, and
>> > implementation of the policy details is left up to each project's (P)PMC.
>> >
>> > Sam pointed to the main trademark policy document below; at some point
>> once
>> > this project has more of the website migrated to Apache infrastructure,
>> > folks will want to review the Apache Project Branding Requirements for
>> > things that need to be on the project website.
>> >
>> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs
>> >
>> > So the decision on licensing Apache marks for things like certification
>> is
>> > made between the VP, Brand Management and the project's (P)PMC. Note
>> that
>> > we have specific policies for domains and events, and I believe the ASF
>> will
>> > need to further codify and document policies for services and third party
>> > certifications in the future.
>> >
>> > Note also that Oracle's intent is indeed to assign all OOo related
>> > trademarks to the ASF, although the legal paperwork is not yet complete.
>> > Thus, we can't actually license any uses of the OOo marks quite yet.
>> 8-)
>> >
>>
>> OK. Thanks for the background info, Shane. Will the PPMC be
>> notified when the trademark transfer has been completed, so we can
>> further discuss Ian's request?
>
>
> I have now posted the request with some background to trademarks@apache.org.
>
> Probably can't be resolved definitively until the IPR transfer is complete
> but anything that short-cuts the process reduces the risk of losing the
> current interest.
>
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> Wales.
>
Re: Request for permission to use the OOo Trademark (was: Teams and Leads)
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
On 28 June 2011 02:30, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>
> wrote:
> > Just in case other folks missed the tie-in between the different threads:
> > branding and trademark policy for all Apache projects is handled on the
> > privately archived trademarks@apache.org mailing list. Apache policy is
> set
> > by the VP, Brand Management and the associated officer's committee, and
> > implementation of the policy details is left up to each project's (P)PMC.
> >
> > Sam pointed to the main trademark policy document below; at some point
> once
> > this project has more of the website migrated to Apache infrastructure,
> > folks will want to review the Apache Project Branding Requirements for
> > things that need to be on the project website.
> >
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs
> >
> > So the decision on licensing Apache marks for things like certification
> is
> > made between the VP, Brand Management and the project's (P)PMC. Note
> that
> > we have specific policies for domains and events, and I believe the ASF
> will
> > need to further codify and document policies for services and third party
> > certifications in the future.
> >
> > Note also that Oracle's intent is indeed to assign all OOo related
> > trademarks to the ASF, although the legal paperwork is not yet complete.
> > Thus, we can't actually license any uses of the OOo marks quite yet.
> 8-)
> >
>
> OK. Thanks for the background info, Shane. Will the PPMC be
> notified when the trademark transfer has been completed, so we can
> further discuss Ian's request?
I have now posted the request with some background to trademarks@apache.org.
Probably can't be resolved definitively until the IPR transfer is complete
but anything that short-cuts the process reduces the risk of losing the
current interest.
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.
Re: Request for permission to use the OOo Trademark
Posted by Donald Harbison <dp...@gmail.com>.
Shane, I'll be happy to assist on 'tracking down the renewal details for
various countries', as you say.
/don
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:14 AM, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
> On 6/27/2011 9:30 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Shane Curcuru<as...@shanecurcuru.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just in case other folks missed the tie-in between the different threads:
>>> branding and trademark policy for all Apache projects is handled on the
>>> privately archived trademarks@apache.org mailing list. Apache policy is
>>> set
>>> by the VP, Brand Management and the associated officer's committee, and
>>> implementation of the policy details is left up to each project's (P)PMC.
>>>
>>> Sam pointed to the main trademark policy document below; at some point
>>> once
>>> this project has more of the website migrated to Apache infrastructure,
>>> folks will want to review the Apache Project Branding Requirements for
>>> things that need to be on the project website.
>>>
>>> http://www.apache.org/**foundation/marks/pmcs<http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs>
>>>
>>> So the decision on licensing Apache marks for things like certification
>>> is
>>> made between the VP, Brand Management and the project's (P)PMC. Note
>>> that
>>> we have specific policies for domains and events, and I believe the ASF
>>> will
>>> need to further codify and document policies for services and third party
>>> certifications in the future.
>>>
>>> Note also that Oracle's intent is indeed to assign all OOo related
>>> trademarks to the ASF, although the legal paperwork is not yet complete.
>>> Thus, we can't actually license any uses of the OOo marks quite yet.
>>> 8-)
>>>
>>>
>> OK. Thanks for the background info, Shane. Will the PPMC be
>> notified when the trademark transfer has been completed, so we can
>> further discuss Ian's request?
>>
>
> Of course! I'll also include the list of all the registrations (and
> applications; the applications were not completed in all the countries it
> was applied for)), and I'll also ask for a PPMC volunteer to help tracking
> down the renewal details for various countries.
>
> In terms of policies for certifications, we need to ensure that:
>
> - The ASF as an entity does not take on risk. We are a public charity with
> a mission to produce software for the public good. We're happy to have
> third parties take our code and use it for any purposes (as spelled out in
> the license), as long as third parties respect our brands.
>
> - Apache marks need to be respected. Thus any certification programs that
> use our marks/logos need to have a clear distinction between the third
> party's certification program and our marks.
>
> - The ASF does not serve as a certification or standards body. Thus we
> need to be clear that it's the third party providing the "certification" of
> any results, not the ASF.
>
> I don't think any of these are difficult, nor should they be a surprise to
> people like Ian; we just need to ensure we clearly specify what the ASF's
> policy is on this first.
>
> - Shane
>
>
>> -Rob
>>
>> - Shane
>>>
>>> On 6/16/2011 8:48 AM, Sam Ruby wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Reposting with a new subject line, and copying the appropriate
>>>> trademark's mailing list.
>>>>
>>>> The relevant policy can be found here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.apache.org/**foundation/marks/<http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/>
>>>>
>>>> - Sam Ruby
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Ian Lynch<ia...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 16 June 2011 12:00, Sam Ruby<ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 6:47 AM, IngridvdM<In...@gmx-topmail.de>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am really in favor of going without anyone being named leader or
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> manager
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or any name that could create the impression that this person has
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> rights than the others. Maybe we can choose 'contact' as a neutral
>>>>>>> description in case something turns out to be needed? Or is there
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> more neutral word?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only 'contact' that people need for this project is
>>>>>> ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If this list grows too large or too busy, then we can create
>>>>>> additional 'contacts' in the form of more mailing lists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, sounds sensible to try using what already exists until there is a
>>>>> good
>>>>> reason not too :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me test the system ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Alexandro Colorado and myself (both been involved with the OOo
>>>>> community
>>>>> for
>>>>> years) have been negotiating with a large training company to provide a
>>>>> community backed certification for OOo but with a vector to potentially
>>>>> 1500
>>>>> centres. I previously sought and was granted permission by Oracle to
>>>>> use
>>>>> the
>>>>> OOo branding on certificates. I guess we need community consensus here
>>>>> now,
>>>>> to carry on with that. There is quite a long history to all this and I
>>>>> declare a financial interest. I set up a UK government accredited
>>>>> awarding
>>>>> organisation (The Learning Machine Ltd) to enable a mechanism for
>>>>> funding
>>>>> FOSS and CC education development that was independent of licensing ie
>>>>> the
>>>>> business model is QA so no problem licensing any supporting stuff
>>>>> freely.
>>>>>
>>>>> To get started required investment so the only way to do that was to
>>>>> set
>>>>> up
>>>>> a for profit and sell shares. That together with EU grants has put well
>>>>> over
>>>>> £1m of investment into this. We have had some successes such as schools
>>>>> that
>>>>> started using our generic certification with MS products that have now
>>>>> switched to OOo. I can get the FOSS voice heard in influential
>>>>> government
>>>>> places. The strategy is in general to be product neutral but to use
>>>>> FOSS
>>>>> for
>>>>> all exemplars and supporting materials. This gives us a channel to get
>>>>> closed source users at least in contact with FOSS so there is a clear
>>>>> marketing strategy. With OOo certification we can say eg the WP
>>>>> certificate
>>>>> was achieved in the context of OOo Writer and put an OOo logo on the
>>>>> certificate. The assessment criteria are generic so we could do the
>>>>> same
>>>>> with LibO, Koffice etc. or indeed any FOSS software project, Inkscape,
>>>>> Gimp,
>>>>> Audacity etc. WE could even do professional Apache qualifications if
>>>>> there
>>>>> was a demand. Once we work out delivery costs (Its variable and depends
>>>>> on
>>>>> volume) we give a kick back to community funds in return for using the
>>>>> branding. We have the infrastructure in place using a LAMP stack for
>>>>> assessment and certification and Drupal for community support with
>>>>> dynamic
>>>>> links between the 2. Portal is at www.theingots.org. The acronym INGOT
>>>>> is
>>>>> International Grades - Open Technologies.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are accredited by Ofqual the UK national exam regulators and
>>>>> endorsed
>>>>> by
>>>>> the UK Sector Skills Council for Business and IT. All our
>>>>> qualifications
>>>>> are
>>>>> referenced to the European Qualifications Framework. We have 2 EU
>>>>> Transfer
>>>>> of innovation projects and we are monitored by all these so the
>>>>> community
>>>>> can have some confidence that we "know what we are doing". My
>>>>> background
>>>>> is
>>>>> that I was a UK School Inspection Team leader and assessor of the
>>>>> National
>>>>> Professional Qualification for Headteachers.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what I'm asking for is permission to use the OOo Trademark and
>>>>> general
>>>>> community support.
>>>>>
>>>>> Trying to keep this reasonably short so please feel free to ask any
>>>>> questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ian
>>>>>
>>>>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>>>>>
>>>>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>>>>
>>>>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>>>>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>>>>> Wales.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
Re: Request for permission to use the OOo Trademark
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
On 6/27/2011 9:30 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Shane Curcuru<as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
>> Just in case other folks missed the tie-in between the different threads:
>> branding and trademark policy for all Apache projects is handled on the
>> privately archived trademarks@apache.org mailing list. Apache policy is set
>> by the VP, Brand Management and the associated officer's committee, and
>> implementation of the policy details is left up to each project's (P)PMC.
>>
>> Sam pointed to the main trademark policy document below; at some point once
>> this project has more of the website migrated to Apache infrastructure,
>> folks will want to review the Apache Project Branding Requirements for
>> things that need to be on the project website.
>>
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs
>>
>> So the decision on licensing Apache marks for things like certification is
>> made between the VP, Brand Management and the project's (P)PMC. Note that
>> we have specific policies for domains and events, and I believe the ASF will
>> need to further codify and document policies for services and third party
>> certifications in the future.
>>
>> Note also that Oracle's intent is indeed to assign all OOo related
>> trademarks to the ASF, although the legal paperwork is not yet complete.
>> Thus, we can't actually license any uses of the OOo marks quite yet. 8-)
>>
>
> OK. Thanks for the background info, Shane. Will the PPMC be
> notified when the trademark transfer has been completed, so we can
> further discuss Ian's request?
Of course! I'll also include the list of all the registrations (and
applications; the applications were not completed in all the countries
it was applied for)), and I'll also ask for a PPMC volunteer to help
tracking down the renewal details for various countries.
In terms of policies for certifications, we need to ensure that:
- The ASF as an entity does not take on risk. We are a public charity
with a mission to produce software for the public good. We're happy to
have third parties take our code and use it for any purposes (as spelled
out in the license), as long as third parties respect our brands.
- Apache marks need to be respected. Thus any certification programs
that use our marks/logos need to have a clear distinction between the
third party's certification program and our marks.
- The ASF does not serve as a certification or standards body. Thus we
need to be clear that it's the third party providing the "certification"
of any results, not the ASF.
I don't think any of these are difficult, nor should they be a surprise
to people like Ian; we just need to ensure we clearly specify what the
ASF's policy is on this first.
- Shane
>
> -Rob
>
>> - Shane
>>
>> On 6/16/2011 8:48 AM, Sam Ruby wrote:
>>>
>>> Reposting with a new subject line, and copying the appropriate
>>> trademark's mailing list.
>>>
>>> The relevant policy can be found here:
>>>
>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
>>>
>>> - Sam Ruby
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Ian Lynch<ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 16 June 2011 12:00, Sam Ruby<ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 6:47 AM, IngridvdM<In...@gmx-topmail.de>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am really in favor of going without anyone being named leader or
>>>>>
>>>>> manager
>>>>>>
>>>>>> or any name that could create the impression that this person has more
>>>>>> rights than the others. Maybe we can choose 'contact' as a neutral
>>>>>> description in case something turns out to be needed? Or is there even
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> more neutral word?
>>>>>
>>>>> The only 'contact' that people need for this project is
>>>>> ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org.
>>>>>
>>>>> If this list grows too large or too busy, then we can create
>>>>> additional 'contacts' in the form of more mailing lists.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OK, sounds sensible to try using what already exists until there is a
>>>> good
>>>> reason not too :-)
>>>>
>>>> Let me test the system ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Alexandro Colorado and myself (both been involved with the OOo community
>>>> for
>>>> years) have been negotiating with a large training company to provide a
>>>> community backed certification for OOo but with a vector to potentially
>>>> 1500
>>>> centres. I previously sought and was granted permission by Oracle to use
>>>> the
>>>> OOo branding on certificates. I guess we need community consensus here
>>>> now,
>>>> to carry on with that. There is quite a long history to all this and I
>>>> declare a financial interest. I set up a UK government accredited
>>>> awarding
>>>> organisation (The Learning Machine Ltd) to enable a mechanism for funding
>>>> FOSS and CC education development that was independent of licensing ie
>>>> the
>>>> business model is QA so no problem licensing any supporting stuff freely.
>>>>
>>>> To get started required investment so the only way to do that was to set
>>>> up
>>>> a for profit and sell shares. That together with EU grants has put well
>>>> over
>>>> £1m of investment into this. We have had some successes such as schools
>>>> that
>>>> started using our generic certification with MS products that have now
>>>> switched to OOo. I can get the FOSS voice heard in influential government
>>>> places. The strategy is in general to be product neutral but to use FOSS
>>>> for
>>>> all exemplars and supporting materials. This gives us a channel to get
>>>> closed source users at least in contact with FOSS so there is a clear
>>>> marketing strategy. With OOo certification we can say eg the WP
>>>> certificate
>>>> was achieved in the context of OOo Writer and put an OOo logo on the
>>>> certificate. The assessment criteria are generic so we could do the same
>>>> with LibO, Koffice etc. or indeed any FOSS software project, Inkscape,
>>>> Gimp,
>>>> Audacity etc. WE could even do professional Apache qualifications if
>>>> there
>>>> was a demand. Once we work out delivery costs (Its variable and depends
>>>> on
>>>> volume) we give a kick back to community funds in return for using the
>>>> branding. We have the infrastructure in place using a LAMP stack for
>>>> assessment and certification and Drupal for community support with
>>>> dynamic
>>>> links between the 2. Portal is at www.theingots.org. The acronym INGOT is
>>>> International Grades - Open Technologies.
>>>>
>>>> We are accredited by Ofqual the UK national exam regulators and endorsed
>>>> by
>>>> the UK Sector Skills Council for Business and IT. All our qualifications
>>>> are
>>>> referenced to the European Qualifications Framework. We have 2 EU
>>>> Transfer
>>>> of innovation projects and we are monitored by all these so the community
>>>> can have some confidence that we "know what we are doing". My background
>>>> is
>>>> that I was a UK School Inspection Team leader and assessor of the
>>>> National
>>>> Professional Qualification for Headteachers.
>>>>
>>>> So what I'm asking for is permission to use the OOo Trademark and general
>>>> community support.
>>>>
>>>> Trying to keep this reasonably short so please feel free to ask any
>>>> questions.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ian
>>>>
>>>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>>>>
>>>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>>>
>>>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>>>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>>>> Wales.
>>>>
>>
>>
Re: Request for permission to use the OOo Trademark (was: Teams and Leads)
Posted by Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>.
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:
> Just in case other folks missed the tie-in between the different threads:
> branding and trademark policy for all Apache projects is handled on the
> privately archived trademarks@apache.org mailing list. Apache policy is set
> by the VP, Brand Management and the associated officer's committee, and
> implementation of the policy details is left up to each project's (P)PMC.
>
> Sam pointed to the main trademark policy document below; at some point once
> this project has more of the website migrated to Apache infrastructure,
> folks will want to review the Apache Project Branding Requirements for
> things that need to be on the project website.
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs
>
> So the decision on licensing Apache marks for things like certification is
> made between the VP, Brand Management and the project's (P)PMC. Note that
> we have specific policies for domains and events, and I believe the ASF will
> need to further codify and document policies for services and third party
> certifications in the future.
>
> Note also that Oracle's intent is indeed to assign all OOo related
> trademarks to the ASF, although the legal paperwork is not yet complete.
> Thus, we can't actually license any uses of the OOo marks quite yet. 8-)
>
OK. Thanks for the background info, Shane. Will the PPMC be
notified when the trademark transfer has been completed, so we can
further discuss Ian's request?
-Rob
> - Shane
>
> On 6/16/2011 8:48 AM, Sam Ruby wrote:
>>
>> Reposting with a new subject line, and copying the appropriate
>> trademark's mailing list.
>>
>> The relevant policy can be found here:
>>
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
>>
>> - Sam Ruby
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Ian Lynch<ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 16 June 2011 12:00, Sam Ruby<ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 6:47 AM, IngridvdM<In...@gmx-topmail.de>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I am really in favor of going without anyone being named leader or
>>>>
>>>> manager
>>>>>
>>>>> or any name that could create the impression that this person has more
>>>>> rights than the others. Maybe we can choose 'contact' as a neutral
>>>>> description in case something turns out to be needed? Or is there even
>>>>> a
>>>>> more neutral word?
>>>>
>>>> The only 'contact' that people need for this project is
>>>> ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org.
>>>>
>>>> If this list grows too large or too busy, then we can create
>>>> additional 'contacts' in the form of more mailing lists.
>>>
>>>
>>> OK, sounds sensible to try using what already exists until there is a
>>> good
>>> reason not too :-)
>>>
>>> Let me test the system ;-)
>>>
>>> Alexandro Colorado and myself (both been involved with the OOo community
>>> for
>>> years) have been negotiating with a large training company to provide a
>>> community backed certification for OOo but with a vector to potentially
>>> 1500
>>> centres. I previously sought and was granted permission by Oracle to use
>>> the
>>> OOo branding on certificates. I guess we need community consensus here
>>> now,
>>> to carry on with that. There is quite a long history to all this and I
>>> declare a financial interest. I set up a UK government accredited
>>> awarding
>>> organisation (The Learning Machine Ltd) to enable a mechanism for funding
>>> FOSS and CC education development that was independent of licensing ie
>>> the
>>> business model is QA so no problem licensing any supporting stuff freely.
>>>
>>> To get started required investment so the only way to do that was to set
>>> up
>>> a for profit and sell shares. That together with EU grants has put well
>>> over
>>> £1m of investment into this. We have had some successes such as schools
>>> that
>>> started using our generic certification with MS products that have now
>>> switched to OOo. I can get the FOSS voice heard in influential government
>>> places. The strategy is in general to be product neutral but to use FOSS
>>> for
>>> all exemplars and supporting materials. This gives us a channel to get
>>> closed source users at least in contact with FOSS so there is a clear
>>> marketing strategy. With OOo certification we can say eg the WP
>>> certificate
>>> was achieved in the context of OOo Writer and put an OOo logo on the
>>> certificate. The assessment criteria are generic so we could do the same
>>> with LibO, Koffice etc. or indeed any FOSS software project, Inkscape,
>>> Gimp,
>>> Audacity etc. WE could even do professional Apache qualifications if
>>> there
>>> was a demand. Once we work out delivery costs (Its variable and depends
>>> on
>>> volume) we give a kick back to community funds in return for using the
>>> branding. We have the infrastructure in place using a LAMP stack for
>>> assessment and certification and Drupal for community support with
>>> dynamic
>>> links between the 2. Portal is at www.theingots.org. The acronym INGOT is
>>> International Grades - Open Technologies.
>>>
>>> We are accredited by Ofqual the UK national exam regulators and endorsed
>>> by
>>> the UK Sector Skills Council for Business and IT. All our qualifications
>>> are
>>> referenced to the European Qualifications Framework. We have 2 EU
>>> Transfer
>>> of innovation projects and we are monitored by all these so the community
>>> can have some confidence that we "know what we are doing". My background
>>> is
>>> that I was a UK School Inspection Team leader and assessor of the
>>> National
>>> Professional Qualification for Headteachers.
>>>
>>> So what I'm asking for is permission to use the OOo Trademark and general
>>> community support.
>>>
>>> Trying to keep this reasonably short so please feel free to ask any
>>> questions.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ian
>>>
>>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>>>
>>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>>
>>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>>> Wales.
>>>
>
>
Re: Request for permission to use the OOo Trademark (was: Teams and
Leads)
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
Just in case other folks missed the tie-in between the different
threads: branding and trademark policy for all Apache projects is
handled on the privately archived trademarks@apache.org mailing list.
Apache policy is set by the VP, Brand Management and the associated
officer's committee, and implementation of the policy details is left up
to each project's (P)PMC.
Sam pointed to the main trademark policy document below; at some point
once this project has more of the website migrated to Apache
infrastructure, folks will want to review the Apache Project Branding
Requirements for things that need to be on the project website.
http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs
So the decision on licensing Apache marks for things like certification
is made between the VP, Brand Management and the project's (P)PMC. Note
that we have specific policies for domains and events, and I believe the
ASF will need to further codify and document policies for services and
third party certifications in the future.
Note also that Oracle's intent is indeed to assign all OOo related
trademarks to the ASF, although the legal paperwork is not yet complete.
Thus, we can't actually license any uses of the OOo marks quite yet. 8-)
- Shane
On 6/16/2011 8:48 AM, Sam Ruby wrote:
> Reposting with a new subject line, and copying the appropriate
> trademark's mailing list.
>
> The relevant policy can be found here:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Ian Lynch<ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 16 June 2011 12:00, Sam Ruby<ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 6:47 AM, IngridvdM<In...@gmx-topmail.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am really in favor of going without anyone being named leader or
>>> manager
>>>> or any name that could create the impression that this person has more
>>>> rights than the others. Maybe we can choose 'contact' as a neutral
>>>> description in case something turns out to be needed? Or is there even a
>>>> more neutral word?
>>>
>>> The only 'contact' that people need for this project is
>>> ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org.
>>>
>>> If this list grows too large or too busy, then we can create
>>> additional 'contacts' in the form of more mailing lists.
>>
>>
>> OK, sounds sensible to try using what already exists until there is a good
>> reason not too :-)
>>
>> Let me test the system ;-)
>>
>> Alexandro Colorado and myself (both been involved with the OOo community for
>> years) have been negotiating with a large training company to provide a
>> community backed certification for OOo but with a vector to potentially 1500
>> centres. I previously sought and was granted permission by Oracle to use the
>> OOo branding on certificates. I guess we need community consensus here now,
>> to carry on with that. There is quite a long history to all this and I
>> declare a financial interest. I set up a UK government accredited awarding
>> organisation (The Learning Machine Ltd) to enable a mechanism for funding
>> FOSS and CC education development that was independent of licensing ie the
>> business model is QA so no problem licensing any supporting stuff freely.
>>
>> To get started required investment so the only way to do that was to set up
>> a for profit and sell shares. That together with EU grants has put well over
>> £1m of investment into this. We have had some successes such as schools that
>> started using our generic certification with MS products that have now
>> switched to OOo. I can get the FOSS voice heard in influential government
>> places. The strategy is in general to be product neutral but to use FOSS for
>> all exemplars and supporting materials. This gives us a channel to get
>> closed source users at least in contact with FOSS so there is a clear
>> marketing strategy. With OOo certification we can say eg the WP certificate
>> was achieved in the context of OOo Writer and put an OOo logo on the
>> certificate. The assessment criteria are generic so we could do the same
>> with LibO, Koffice etc. or indeed any FOSS software project, Inkscape, Gimp,
>> Audacity etc. WE could even do professional Apache qualifications if there
>> was a demand. Once we work out delivery costs (Its variable and depends on
>> volume) we give a kick back to community funds in return for using the
>> branding. We have the infrastructure in place using a LAMP stack for
>> assessment and certification and Drupal for community support with dynamic
>> links between the 2. Portal is at www.theingots.org. The acronym INGOT is
>> International Grades - Open Technologies.
>>
>> We are accredited by Ofqual the UK national exam regulators and endorsed by
>> the UK Sector Skills Council for Business and IT. All our qualifications are
>> referenced to the European Qualifications Framework. We have 2 EU Transfer
>> of innovation projects and we are monitored by all these so the community
>> can have some confidence that we "know what we are doing". My background is
>> that I was a UK School Inspection Team leader and assessor of the National
>> Professional Qualification for Headteachers.
>>
>> So what I'm asking for is permission to use the OOo Trademark and general
>> community support.
>>
>> Trying to keep this reasonably short so please feel free to ask any
>> questions.
>>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>>
>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>
>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>> Wales.
>>
Re: Request for permission to use the OOo Trademark (was: Teams and Leads)
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@openoffice.org>.
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 7:48 AM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> Reposting with a new subject line, and copying the appropriate
> trademark's mailing list.
>
> The relevant policy can be found here:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
>
Early in the morning here... but just to add further information to what Ian
already said. The trademark was approved and is already a working group
project within the OpenOffice.org Project at
http://certification.openoffice.org the business model description is
available at the certification wiki pages
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Certification
Approved discussions were public and handled by the Community Counsil a few
years ago.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 16 June 2011 12:00, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 6:47 AM, IngridvdM <In...@gmx-topmail.de>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I am really in favor of going without anyone being named leader or
> >> manager
> >> > or any name that could create the impression that this person has more
> >> > rights than the others. Maybe we can choose 'contact' as a neutral
> >> > description in case something turns out to be needed? Or is there even
> a
> >> > more neutral word?
> >>
> >> The only 'contact' that people need for this project is
> >> ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org.
> >>
> >> If this list grows too large or too busy, then we can create
> >> additional 'contacts' in the form of more mailing lists.
> >
> >
> > OK, sounds sensible to try using what already exists until there is a
> good
> > reason not too :-)
> >
> > Let me test the system ;-)
> >
> > Alexandro Colorado and myself (both been involved with the OOo community
> for
> > years) have been negotiating with a large training company to provide a
> > community backed certification for OOo but with a vector to potentially
> 1500
> > centres. I previously sought and was granted permission by Oracle to use
> the
> > OOo branding on certificates. I guess we need community consensus here
> now,
> > to carry on with that. There is quite a long history to all this and I
> > declare a financial interest. I set up a UK government accredited
> awarding
> > organisation (The Learning Machine Ltd) to enable a mechanism for funding
> > FOSS and CC education development that was independent of licensing ie
> the
> > business model is QA so no problem licensing any supporting stuff freely.
> >
> > To get started required investment so the only way to do that was to set
> up
> > a for profit and sell shares. That together with EU grants has put well
> over
> > £1m of investment into this. We have had some successes such as schools
> that
> > started using our generic certification with MS products that have now
> > switched to OOo. I can get the FOSS voice heard in influential government
> > places. The strategy is in general to be product neutral but to use FOSS
> for
> > all exemplars and supporting materials. This gives us a channel to get
> > closed source users at least in contact with FOSS so there is a clear
> > marketing strategy. With OOo certification we can say eg the WP
> certificate
> > was achieved in the context of OOo Writer and put an OOo logo on the
> > certificate. The assessment criteria are generic so we could do the same
> > with LibO, Koffice etc. or indeed any FOSS software project, Inkscape,
> Gimp,
> > Audacity etc. WE could even do professional Apache qualifications if
> there
> > was a demand. Once we work out delivery costs (Its variable and depends
> on
> > volume) we give a kick back to community funds in return for using the
> > branding. We have the infrastructure in place using a LAMP stack for
> > assessment and certification and Drupal for community support with
> dynamic
> > links between the 2. Portal is at www.theingots.org. The acronym INGOT
> is
> > International Grades - Open Technologies.
> >
> > We are accredited by Ofqual the UK national exam regulators and endorsed
> by
> > the UK Sector Skills Council for Business and IT. All our qualifications
> are
> > referenced to the European Qualifications Framework. We have 2 EU
> Transfer
> > of innovation projects and we are monitored by all these so the community
> > can have some confidence that we "know what we are doing". My background
> is
> > that I was a UK School Inspection Team leader and assessor of the
> National
> > Professional Qualification for Headteachers.
> >
> > So what I'm asking for is permission to use the OOo Trademark and general
> > community support.
> >
> > Trying to keep this reasonably short so please feel free to ask any
> > questions.
> >
> > --
> > Ian
> >
> > Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
> >
> > www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
> >
> > The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> > Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> > Wales.
> >
>
--
*Alexandro Colorado*
*OpenOffice.org* Español
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Request for permission to use the OOo Trademark (was: Teams and Leads)
Posted by Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>.
Hi Ian,
Any luck raising the trademark issue with Apache Branding?
-Rob
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Ian.
>
> I don't see anything in the Apache trademark policy [1] that talks
> about training certificates. But it does say that use of the
> graphical logo, beyond the uses in a hyperlink on a website, requires
> approval from Apache.
>
> So I think you'll need to take this up with trademarks@apache.org. I
> hope you keep this list informed as to how that progresses.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
> [1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 16 June 2011 15:06, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ian, do you have a link to a sample certificate, so we can see the
>>> trademark used in context?
>>>
>>
>> There is a scan of a sample certificate at
>>
>> https://theingots.org/community/OOoCert
>>
>> The bar code on this just encodes to the web site address as this is not a
>> "real certificate". Usually it encodes the certificate authentication
>> address so all certificates can be authenticated directly and immediately
>> from the database. Otherwise forgeries are probably the biggest weakness in
>> the QA audit chain.
>>
>> -Rob
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>>
>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>>
>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
>> Wales.
>>
>
Re: Request for permission to use the OOo Trademark (was: Teams and Leads)
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
On 19 June 2011 23:02, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Ian.
>
> I don't see anything in the Apache trademark policy [1] that talks
> about training certificates. But it does say that use of the
> graphical logo, beyond the uses in a hyperlink on a website, requires
> approval from Apache.
>
> So I think you'll need to take this up with trademarks@apache.org. I
> hope you keep this list informed as to how that progresses.
>
I'm just waiting for Shane to come back to me.
Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
> [1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 16 June 2011 15:06, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Ian, do you have a link to a sample certificate, so we can see the
> >> trademark used in context?
> >>
> >
> > There is a scan of a sample certificate at
> >
> > https://theingots.org/community/OOoCert
> >
> > The bar code on this just encodes to the web site address as this is not
> a
> > "real certificate". Usually it encodes the certificate authentication
> > address so all certificates can be authenticated directly and immediately
> > from the database. Otherwise forgeries are probably the biggest weakness
> in
> > the QA audit chain.
> >
> > -Rob
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ian
> >
> > Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
> >
> > www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
> >
> > The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> > Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> > Wales.
> >
>
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.
Re: Request for permission to use the OOo Trademark (was: Teams and Leads)
Posted by Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>.
Thanks, Ian.
I don't see anything in the Apache trademark policy [1] that talks
about training certificates. But it does say that use of the
graphical logo, beyond the uses in a hyperlink on a website, requires
approval from Apache.
So I think you'll need to take this up with trademarks@apache.org. I
hope you keep this list informed as to how that progresses.
Regards,
-Rob
[1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 16 June 2011 15:06, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
>
>> Ian, do you have a link to a sample certificate, so we can see the
>> trademark used in context?
>>
>
> There is a scan of a sample certificate at
>
> https://theingots.org/community/OOoCert
>
> The bar code on this just encodes to the web site address as this is not a
> "real certificate". Usually it encodes the certificate authentication
> address so all certificates can be authenticated directly and immediately
> from the database. Otherwise forgeries are probably the biggest weakness in
> the QA audit chain.
>
> -Rob
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> Wales.
>
Re: Request for permission to use the OOo Trademark (was: Teams and Leads)
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
On 16 June 2011 15:06, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
> Ian, do you have a link to a sample certificate, so we can see the
> trademark used in context?
>
There is a scan of a sample certificate at
https://theingots.org/community/OOoCert
The bar code on this just encodes to the web site address as this is not a
"real certificate". Usually it encodes the certificate authentication
address so all certificates can be authenticated directly and immediately
from the database. Otherwise forgeries are probably the biggest weakness in
the QA audit chain.
-Rob
>
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.
Re: Request for permission to use the OOo Trademark (was: Teams and Leads)
Posted by Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>.
Ian, do you have a link to a sample certificate, so we can see the
trademark used in context?
-Rob