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Posted to ojb-user@db.apache.org by Aaron Longwell <li...@newmedialogic.com> on 2003/06/13 07:14:00 UTC
Experience in High-Load Environments
I realize I may be comparing Apples to Enterprise Applications here, but
I'd like to hear some feedback about using OJB in high-load (load
balanced?) environments.
On an OJB web application, how many requests have you seen an
application handle? Would anyone be concerned about using OJB on an
enormous e-commerce site? (EBay, Amazon, etc)?
Thanks for the input,
Aaron
Re: Experience in High-Load Environments
Posted by Aaron Longwell <li...@newmedialogic.com>.
Thomas,
Thanks for the info. You've answered my questions. I was just curious to
hear some info on the impact of OJB's O/R mapping on
speed/performance/capacity. I've heard from several people that OJB is
efficient enough to use in very high-load situations... and you're very
helpful to point out that the performance limits of OJB (however
minimal) can be overcome by adding machines to the business tier.
Thanks again,
Aaron
Thomas Mahler wrote:
> Hi again Aaron,
>
> I'm not exactly sure what you expect from the figures that other
> people provide?
> Maybe I tell you we once stresstested a Struts/OJB based system with
> 200 concurrent users firing requests and a sub-second average response
> time.
> It was a Tandem Nonstop system with 2 300 Mhz CPU, each equipped with
> 512MB of Ram. We used the Tandem Nonstop SQL database.
> This test was helpful for our project, because we got clear figures
> about our then target environment.
>
> But how can such figures be of any help for you? I don't expect that
> you are running on an environment as exotic as Tandem Nonstop Server :-)
>
> By running a Struts/OJB based applications on clustered J2EE Server
> you will be able to achieve *any* request per minute rate that you
> want to see. Just add more machines into the cluster.
>
> This is possible because J2EE container provide the infrastructure for
> scalibility and frameworks like STruts and OJB are carefully designed
> for scalability and not to produce any bottlenecks.
>
> So IMO the real question is: how much throughput do you need? And how
> must your system be sized to give you this throughput.
> This depends on *many* factors, and OJB is only one of them.
> So IMO you have to perform such a test on your own!
>
> DId you execute our perfoemance testsuite against your target system
> already? This tool will give you a first impression how OJB APIs
> compare to native JDBC programming.
>
>
> Aaron Longwell wrote:
>
>> Jason,
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback. I understand you're probably killing these
>> servers doing this intense processing... but what about # users? Is
>> it one guy running intense simulations... I'm curious about #
>> requests per minute type of loads.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Aaron
>>
>> Jason McKerr wrote:
>>
>>> I've also worked with OJB on high-load situations in J2EE
>>> environments. We're using JRun and/or Orion with OJB in a
>>> clustered/distributed
>>> environment. This is a National Science Foundation project called the
>>> Network for Earthquake Engineering Simulation (NEES). The only major
>>> problem that we ran into was the cache. JCS just isn't
>>> good, and hasn't seemed to get much better over the last year. We
>>> ended
>>> up plugging in Tangosol's Coherence Clustered Cache into the
>>> system. We
>>> can also do write-behinds, and buffered data caching that is queued for
>>> transaction. That's important to us because we're dealing with very
>>> expensive scientific data that _can't_ get lost if a db goes down. Some
>>> of these Tsunami experiments can get pretty expensive.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, we use mostly the PersistenceBroker, and a little of the
>>> ODMG. Performance seems better on PB, but less functional. It's not
>>> really that much of a problem anyway, because we can cheaply and
>>> quickly
>>> add app-servers to the cluster.
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 22:14, Aaron Longwell wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I realize I may be comparing Apples to Enterprise Applications
>>>> here, but I'd like to hear some feedback about using OJB in
>>>> high-load (load balanced?) environments.
>>>>
>>>> On an OJB web application, how many requests have you seen an
>>>> application handle? Would anyone be concerned about using OJB on an
>>>> enormous e-commerce site? (EBay, Amazon, etc)?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the input,
>>>> Aaron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-user-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-user-help@db.apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-user-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-user-help@db.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-user-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-user-help@db.apache.org
>
>
>
>
Re: Experience in High-Load Environments
Posted by Thomas Mahler <th...@web.de>.
Hi again Aaron,
I'm not exactly sure what you expect from the figures that other people
provide?
Maybe I tell you we once stresstested a Struts/OJB based system with 200
concurrent users firing requests and a sub-second average response time.
It was a Tandem Nonstop system with 2 300 Mhz CPU, each equipped with
512MB of Ram. We used the Tandem Nonstop SQL database.
This test was helpful for our project, because we got clear figures
about our then target environment.
But how can such figures be of any help for you? I don't expect that you
are running on an environment as exotic as Tandem Nonstop Server :-)
By running a Struts/OJB based applications on clustered J2EE Server you
will be able to achieve *any* request per minute rate that you want to
see. Just add more machines into the cluster.
This is possible because J2EE container provide the infrastructure for
scalibility and frameworks like STruts and OJB are carefully designed
for scalability and not to produce any bottlenecks.
So IMO the real question is: how much throughput do you need? And how
must your system be sized to give you this throughput.
This depends on *many* factors, and OJB is only one of them.
So IMO you have to perform such a test on your own!
DId you execute our perfoemance testsuite against your target system
already? This tool will give you a first impression how OJB APIs compare
to native JDBC programming.
Aaron Longwell wrote:
> Jason,
>
> Thanks for the feedback. I understand you're probably killing these
> servers doing this intense processing... but what about # users? Is it
> one guy running intense simulations... I'm curious about # requests per
> minute type of loads.
>
> Thanks,
> Aaron
>
> Jason McKerr wrote:
>
>> I've also worked with OJB on high-load situations in J2EE
>> environments. We're using JRun and/or Orion with OJB in a
>> clustered/distributed
>> environment. This is a National Science Foundation project called the
>> Network for Earthquake Engineering Simulation (NEES).
>> The only major problem that we ran into was the cache. JCS just isn't
>> good, and hasn't seemed to get much better over the last year. We ended
>> up plugging in Tangosol's Coherence Clustered Cache into the system. We
>> can also do write-behinds, and buffered data caching that is queued for
>> transaction. That's important to us because we're dealing with very
>> expensive scientific data that _can't_ get lost if a db goes down. Some
>> of these Tsunami experiments can get pretty expensive.
>>
>> Otherwise, we use mostly the PersistenceBroker, and a little of the
>> ODMG. Performance seems better on PB, but less functional. It's not
>> really that much of a problem anyway, because we can cheaply and quickly
>> add app-servers to the cluster.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 22:14, Aaron Longwell wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I realize I may be comparing Apples to Enterprise Applications here,
>>> but I'd like to hear some feedback about using OJB in high-load (load
>>> balanced?) environments.
>>>
>>> On an OJB web application, how many requests have you seen an
>>> application handle? Would anyone be concerned about using OJB on an
>>> enormous e-commerce site? (EBay, Amazon, etc)?
>>>
>>> Thanks for the input,
>>> Aaron
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-user-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-user-help@db.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-user-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-user-help@db.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Experience in High-Load Environments
Posted by Aaron Longwell <li...@newmedialogic.com>.
Jason,
Thanks for the feedback. I understand you're probably killing these
servers doing this intense processing... but what about # users? Is it
one guy running intense simulations... I'm curious about # requests per
minute type of loads.
Thanks,
Aaron
Jason McKerr wrote:
>I've also worked with OJB on high-load situations in J2EE environments.
>We're using JRun and/or Orion with OJB in a clustered/distributed
>environment. This is a National Science Foundation project called the
>Network for Earthquake Engineering Simulation (NEES).
>
>The only major problem that we ran into was the cache. JCS just isn't
>good, and hasn't seemed to get much better over the last year. We ended
>up plugging in Tangosol's Coherence Clustered Cache into the system. We
>can also do write-behinds, and buffered data caching that is queued for
>transaction. That's important to us because we're dealing with very
>expensive scientific data that _can't_ get lost if a db goes down. Some
>of these Tsunami experiments can get pretty expensive.
>
>Otherwise, we use mostly the PersistenceBroker, and a little of the
>ODMG. Performance seems better on PB, but less functional. It's not
>really that much of a problem anyway, because we can cheaply and quickly
>add app-servers to the cluster.
>
>Jason
>
>
>On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 22:14, Aaron Longwell wrote:
>
>
>>I realize I may be comparing Apples to Enterprise Applications here, but
>>I'd like to hear some feedback about using OJB in high-load (load
>>balanced?) environments.
>>
>>On an OJB web application, how many requests have you seen an
>>application handle? Would anyone be concerned about using OJB on an
>>enormous e-commerce site? (EBay, Amazon, etc)?
>>
>>Thanks for the input,
>>Aaron
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-user-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-user-help@db.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-user-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-user-help@db.apache.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Experience in High-Load Environments
Posted by Jason McKerr <mc...@nacse.org>.
I've also worked with OJB on high-load situations in J2EE environments.
We're using JRun and/or Orion with OJB in a clustered/distributed
environment. This is a National Science Foundation project called the
Network for Earthquake Engineering Simulation (NEES).
The only major problem that we ran into was the cache. JCS just isn't
good, and hasn't seemed to get much better over the last year. We ended
up plugging in Tangosol's Coherence Clustered Cache into the system. We
can also do write-behinds, and buffered data caching that is queued for
transaction. That's important to us because we're dealing with very
expensive scientific data that _can't_ get lost if a db goes down. Some
of these Tsunami experiments can get pretty expensive.
Otherwise, we use mostly the PersistenceBroker, and a little of the
ODMG. Performance seems better on PB, but less functional. It's not
really that much of a problem anyway, because we can cheaply and quickly
add app-servers to the cluster.
Jason
On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 22:14, Aaron Longwell wrote:
> I realize I may be comparing Apples to Enterprise Applications here, but
> I'd like to hear some feedback about using OJB in high-load (load
> balanced?) environments.
>
> On an OJB web application, how many requests have you seen an
> application handle? Would anyone be concerned about using OJB on an
> enormous e-commerce site? (EBay, Amazon, etc)?
>
> Thanks for the input,
> Aaron
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-user-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-user-help@db.apache.org
Re: Experience in High-Load Environments
Posted by Aaron Longwell <li...@newmedialogic.com>.
Thanks for your advice Mauricio
Mauricio CASTRO wrote:
>Hi Aaron.
>
>I don't have any real life example with OJB. I worked in the design and
>developing of a server written in Java that handled a very heavy load and
>has a complex data model, it was mounted in a Solaris/sparc machine with
>Informix. We used object locks, caches and many features that OJB include
>but homemade. We didn't knew that OJB existed and I doubt OJB in that time
>was ready for production. The key for success in performance was to improve
>the design. The cache and precalculated results were very important for
>performance.
>
>On the other hand I am writing a similar software that will use OJB. I have
>done preliminary tests and I can say that the basics features of OJB behave
>well for large loads of work. The jdbc driver and the RDBMS have a very
>important role in performance and stability, and are often underestimated.
>But the design of the application is paramount for performance and
>stability. In synthesis I think that OJB can do if you don't try the complex
>or untested features. I think that in the future, OJB will be very stable an
>apt for that kind of applications.
>
>
>Mauricio Castro.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Aaron Longwell" <li...@newmedialogic.com>
>To: "OJB Users List" <oj...@db.apache.org>
>Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 12:20 AM
>Subject: Re: Experience in High-Load Environments
>
>
>
>
>>Do you have any examples of projects you've seen/worked on?
>>
>>i.e.: Using Oracle, widgets.com easily handles 500,000 requests an hour
>>
>>I'm actually not that concerned about using OJB for my current
>>project.... the load isn't that large. But I would like to know the
>>limits of the technology.
>>
>>Mauricio CASTRO wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>It will depends largely on which RDBMS you use, and which OJB features
>>>
>>>
>you
>
>
>>>use. I think all the basics features of OJB can do the trick.
>>>
>>>
>>>Mauricio Castro.
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Aaron Longwell" <li...@newmedialogic.com>
>>>To: "OJB User" <oj...@db.apache.org>
>>>Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 12:14 AM
>>>Subject: Experience in High-Load Environments
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I realize I may be comparing Apples to Enterprise Applications here, but
>>>>I'd like to hear some feedback about using OJB in high-load (load
>>>>balanced?) environments.
>>>>
>>>>On an OJB web application, how many requests have you seen an
>>>>application handle? Would anyone be concerned about using OJB on an
>>>>enormous e-commerce site? (EBay, Amazon, etc)?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for the input,
>>>>Aaron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-user-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
>>>>For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-user-help@db.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-user-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-user-help@db.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-user-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-user-help@db.apache.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Experience in High-Load Environments
Posted by Mauricio CASTRO <mc...@hotmail.com>.
Hi Aaron.
I don't have any real life example with OJB. I worked in the design and
developing of a server written in Java that handled a very heavy load and
has a complex data model, it was mounted in a Solaris/sparc machine with
Informix. We used object locks, caches and many features that OJB include
but homemade. We didn't knew that OJB existed and I doubt OJB in that time
was ready for production. The key for success in performance was to improve
the design. The cache and precalculated results were very important for
performance.
On the other hand I am writing a similar software that will use OJB. I have
done preliminary tests and I can say that the basics features of OJB behave
well for large loads of work. The jdbc driver and the RDBMS have a very
important role in performance and stability, and are often underestimated.
But the design of the application is paramount for performance and
stability. In synthesis I think that OJB can do if you don't try the complex
or untested features. I think that in the future, OJB will be very stable an
apt for that kind of applications.
Mauricio Castro.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Longwell" <li...@newmedialogic.com>
To: "OJB Users List" <oj...@db.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: Experience in High-Load Environments
> Do you have any examples of projects you've seen/worked on?
>
> i.e.: Using Oracle, widgets.com easily handles 500,000 requests an hour
>
> I'm actually not that concerned about using OJB for my current
> project.... the load isn't that large. But I would like to know the
> limits of the technology.
>
> Mauricio CASTRO wrote:
>
> >It will depends largely on which RDBMS you use, and which OJB features
you
> >use. I think all the basics features of OJB can do the trick.
> >
> >
> >Mauricio Castro.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Aaron Longwell" <li...@newmedialogic.com>
> >To: "OJB User" <oj...@db.apache.org>
> >Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 12:14 AM
> >Subject: Experience in High-Load Environments
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>I realize I may be comparing Apples to Enterprise Applications here, but
> >>I'd like to hear some feedback about using OJB in high-load (load
> >>balanced?) environments.
> >>
> >>On an OJB web application, how many requests have you seen an
> >>application handle? Would anyone be concerned about using OJB on an
> >>enormous e-commerce site? (EBay, Amazon, etc)?
> >>
> >>Thanks for the input,
> >>Aaron
> >>
> >>
> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-user-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
> >>For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-user-help@db.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-user-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
> >For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-user-help@db.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
> >.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Re: Experience in High-Load Environments
Posted by Aaron Longwell <li...@newmedialogic.com>.
Do you have any examples of projects you've seen/worked on?
i.e.: Using Oracle, widgets.com easily handles 500,000 requests an hour
I'm actually not that concerned about using OJB for my current
project.... the load isn't that large. But I would like to know the
limits of the technology.
Mauricio CASTRO wrote:
>It will depends largely on which RDBMS you use, and which OJB features you
>use. I think all the basics features of OJB can do the trick.
>
>
>Mauricio Castro.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Aaron Longwell" <li...@newmedialogic.com>
>To: "OJB User" <oj...@db.apache.org>
>Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 12:14 AM
>Subject: Experience in High-Load Environments
>
>
>
>
>>I realize I may be comparing Apples to Enterprise Applications here, but
>>I'd like to hear some feedback about using OJB in high-load (load
>>balanced?) environments.
>>
>>On an OJB web application, how many requests have you seen an
>>application handle? Would anyone be concerned about using OJB on an
>>enormous e-commerce site? (EBay, Amazon, etc)?
>>
>>Thanks for the input,
>>Aaron
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-user-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-user-help@db.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-user-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-user-help@db.apache.org
>
>
>
>.
>
>
>
Re: Experience in High-Load Environments
Posted by Mauricio CASTRO <mc...@hotmail.com>.
It will depends largely on which RDBMS you use, and which OJB features you
use. I think all the basics features of OJB can do the trick.
Mauricio Castro.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Longwell" <li...@newmedialogic.com>
To: "OJB User" <oj...@db.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 12:14 AM
Subject: Experience in High-Load Environments
> I realize I may be comparing Apples to Enterprise Applications here, but
> I'd like to hear some feedback about using OJB in high-load (load
> balanced?) environments.
>
> On an OJB web application, how many requests have you seen an
> application handle? Would anyone be concerned about using OJB on an
> enormous e-commerce site? (EBay, Amazon, etc)?
>
> Thanks for the input,
> Aaron
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ojb-user-unsubscribe@db.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: ojb-user-help@db.apache.org
>
>