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Posted to derby-dev@db.apache.org by "Rick Hillegas (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org> on 2008/02/21 00:05:43 UTC
[jira] Created: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Tearoff database demo
---------------------
Key: DERBY-3444
URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
Project: Derby
Issue Type: Task
Components: Demos/Scripts
Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
Reporter: Rick Hillegas
Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Daniel John Debrunner (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571449#action_12571449 ]
Daniel John Debrunner commented on DERBY-3444:
----------------------------------------------
> It is an all open-source, all Apache effort.
By that you mean it uses open source technology from the Apache Software Foundation, right.
It was not developed as an open source project and did not follow the "Apache Way".
I think the other demos that were "code dumped" actually demonstrate my point, they have not grown the community, it's basically dead code sitting in Derby. These two factors will tend to lead to dead code;
- large initial contribution by a single person
- technology that is not the main focus of the current community
There's no requirement that any code that could use Derby must be hosted within the Derby project.
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Dyre Tjeldvoll (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571360#action_12571360 ]
Dyre Tjeldvoll commented on DERBY-3444:
---------------------------------------
Hmm, seems like a lot new practices are being proposed here.
Are we, in fact, deprecating the java/demo directory? I.e. saying that no new demos should be added here?
Or are we saying that only certain types of demos can be put here. If so; I think we need to clarify what the criteria are.
Wrt. dumping code. I actually thought it was more or less an established practice (although not documented anywhere) that fairly large, separately developed code chunks could be accepted when that code is external and does not affect Derby itself. The calendar demo being mentioned is an example. I can understand the argument for changing this, but I can certainly also see why Rick thought he followed an established practice.
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Daniel John Debrunner (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571208#action_12571208 ]
Daniel John Debrunner commented on DERBY-3444:
----------------------------------------------
Hosting the code elsewhere and having Derby's web or wiki point to it sounds like a good approach.
For any that are interested in collaborating on complex demos you could try setting up a project in the Apache incubator focussed on that, especially for demos that use multiple Apache technologies (as this one does). That might attract a set of interested developers.
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Rick Hillegas (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571442#action_12571442 ]
Rick Hillegas commented on DERBY-3444:
--------------------------------------
This code was developed as part of a presentation which I gave at the Java Mobile and Embedded Developer Days conference. The conference was sponsored by Sun, Forum Nokia, and BetaVine: https://developerdays.dev.java.net/ I deliberately built the demo completely out of Apache parts. It is an all open-source, all Apache effort. I suppose that I could host this demo someplace else. I think that will tend to draw attention and developers away from Derby. I'd rather grow the Derby community.
This demo is larger and more complex than our other demos. Qualitatively, I don't see a distinction though. Those other demos were also developed by individuals and revealed when they were complete. I find these demos are very helpful in discussions with the user community. A good example can get a user unstuck fast. It seems to me that all real databases give their customers lots of demos, including complex ones. "Building database technology" is much bigger than just writing engine code. It also includes the following:
1) Building usable demos
2) Writing readable documentation
3) Improving build/test processes
I think that this code is appropriate for Derby. Code like this can potentially invite another class of developers, viz. the mobile and embedded folks, into our community.
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Rick Hillegas (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571517#action_12571517 ]
Rick Hillegas commented on DERBY-3444:
--------------------------------------
I think that the incubator is a fine next stop for efforts that have already developed some traction. I'm less confident about the incubator as square-one for cold-starting a community. It is also not clear to me that the mobile and embedded folks are a separate community. Considerable effort has been put into making Derby run on small platforms and I think that the mobile and embedded folks would bring a lot to the core Derby effort. The email blizzard is an interesting point; I suppose the digests are helpful.
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Daniel John Debrunner (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571500#action_12571500 ]
Daniel John Debrunner commented on DERBY-3444:
----------------------------------------------
Just for background info I looked at the various demos excluding those that existed at time of the initial contribution:
DERBY-422 - toursdb - Defined as contribution of existing code, jira issue (actually to create a new demo) entered months before code contribution.
(~20 new files including some test code, ~5,000 lines in patch)
DERBY-1596 - WWD - Code contributed ~4 months after the WWD effort (DERBY-913) was kicked off. Is in the style of a tutorial.
(~5 new files, ~650 lines in patch)
DERBY-1936 - localcal - Similar approach to the tearoff - jira issue entered to create a demo, code contributed around an hour later.
(~17 new files, ~3,000 lines in patch)
DERBY-1993 - scores - Defined as contribution of an existing demo for a presentation
(~ 10 new files, ~2,900 lines in patch)
DERBY-3129 - vti - - natural outcome of open development for table functions
(~24 new files, ~20,500 lines in patch)
DERBY-3190 - simplemobile - expansion of an existing demo
(2 new files, ~800 lines in patch)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thoughts:
DERBY-422, 1596, 3129 & 3190 all provided the opportunity for others to be involved.
All demos provided basic complete working code in initial patch. I think the size of the patches for DERBY-1596 & 3190 are reasonable
for a contribution to provide an initial version. DERBY-1993 is probably borderline.
DERBY-422 could be seen as a missing part of the original contribution since the documentation referred to it. I don't know if at
the initial time of contribution it was stated by IBM that the demo would follow, I remember the tests were planned to be contributed later.
We need to do a better job of encouraging open development and incremental development around demos.
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Daniel John Debrunner (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571195#action_12571195 ]
Daniel John Debrunner commented on DERBY-3444:
----------------------------------------------
The patch has around 40 new files and 11,616 lines.
This leads me to some concerns IP and community wise.
IP - this seems to fall more into a software grant than a patch, given:
- the code seems to be developed by Sun Microsystems for one of their events
- the size of the contribution
Community wise, this does not seem like open, collaborative on-list software development, it has the feeling of a code dump. Announced to the list at 3:03pm and a complete patch at 3:17pm. (apparently demo'ed at the Sun event almost a month earlier according to a blog entry).
I must admit I sometimes struggle with the concept of what it means to develop "on-list", is trying something out first and then discussing it on or bringing it to the list considered open development? E.g. I did that within the last couple of days, wrote a utility class for JMX on the bus home two days ago and then sent an e-mail to the list today (and hopefully a patch soon). I think the differences here are:
- this demo is a large effort and there was no effort to include anyone else
- my jmx code is an extension of a Derby concept undergoing open development with at least three active developers
- the jmx code is a couple of classes, maybe 150 lines.
My code dump concern is also based upon the history that the Derby community is not really about building complex demos, it's about building database technology. The calendar demo shows this, a similar code contribution that has not engaged the community at all, and Apache is about community not code.
Not sure what to do here, I don't think there's a strict guideline about when such a contribution would be accepted or not. For example I could see a similar sized contribution with a similar approach might be accepted if it was core database technology as I would be more confident that others would get involved to develop it and the community around it. Though of course I would prefer that a contributor engaged in open development before implementing an entire feature.
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Closed: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Rick Hillegas (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Rick Hillegas closed DERBY-3444.
--------------------------------
Resolution: Fixed
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.1.3
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Rick Hillegas (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571461#action_12571461 ]
Rick Hillegas commented on DERBY-3444:
--------------------------------------
I don't think that the existing demo code is dead. We refer users to it in our documentation and in our responses on derby-user. The code may not be evolving, but it is still useful.
I don't know what the main focus of the current community is. Each individual has their own focus. This demo and engagement with the mobile and embedded world have been part of my recent focus. It looks like JMX security is part of your recent focus. The bigger the community gets, the less focused it becomes. I think that's fine.
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Daniel John Debrunner (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571164#action_12571164 ]
Daniel John Debrunner commented on DERBY-3444:
----------------------------------------------
This seems to be a presentation related to this code:
http://download.java.net/mobileembedded/developerdays/2008/TS-7-tearoffToHandset-final.pdf
from a Sun "Java Mobile & Embedded Developer Days Conference" Jan 23/24th 2008
(https://developerdays.dev.java.net/index.html)
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Jean T. Anderson (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571459#action_12571459 ]
Jean T. Anderson commented on DERBY-3444:
-----------------------------------------
Another thing that troubles me about putting big application demos into the code base is derby-dev had a vigorous discussion in june 2006 about adding user applications to the wiki. See the thread starting at [1]. Users sharing code on the derby wiki was pretty much shot down.
I just took a quick look at the Hibernate wiki page on the Derby wiki [2] and noticed a link to a code wad stored at sourceforge: Scripts Fundraising Manager .
That was just the wiki. If we now add a precedent for adding applications to the derby code line, what criteria do we use for including/excluding a potential contribution?
[1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/db-derby-dev/200606.mbox/%3c4489A0DC.7000708@bristowhill.com%3e
[2] http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/HibernateHelp
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Jean T. Anderson (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571479#action_12571479 ]
Jean T. Anderson commented on DERBY-3444:
-----------------------------------------
Being focused in specific areas is great -- and I'm all for that. Good things happen that way.
But I'm opposed to forming a policy that excludes the community at large. We sent a message in june 2006 that the derby project is not the place to host user applications.
If we want to revisit the closed policy, great. But let's open it up to everyone in the derby community. A sandbox might be an option [1].
[1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/db-derby-dev/200606.mbox/%3c4489E52C.6060804@bristowhill.com%3e
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Daniel John Debrunner (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571521#action_12571521 ]
Daniel John Debrunner commented on DERBY-3444:
----------------------------------------------
On the IP issues there happens to be a somewhat related discussion on legal-discuss at the moment.
Intellectual property clearance is defined here:
http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/index.html
which includes:
"an external codebase is brought into the ASF that is not a separate incubating project but still represents a substantial contribution that was not developed within the ASF's source control system and on our public mailing lists."
This contribution was no developed in the ASF's source control system and was not developed on derby-dev, as for substantial the quote from legal-discuss was:
It's a:
* "substantial"
# "what's substantial?"
* "If you're concerned that it might be substantial, then it's substantial"
ie) We should take a conservative view when people think they're approaching the grey area.
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/200802.mbox/%3c2d12b2f00802220858l11148121hb86342a4951d0128@mail.gmail.com%3e
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Daniel John Debrunner (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571503#action_12571503 ]
Daniel John Debrunner commented on DERBY-3444:
----------------------------------------------
Not sure the lucene contrib model works. The project ends up having code that no-one knows how it works and is rarely touched by the core team. This is due to the lack of open development of a contrib item and the contributor disappearing after it's done.
If you want to build a community around applications that can use Derby then why not start a new project, it doesn't need to be in the Derby project.
If active developers in that application community start to need features of Derby they will come over to Derby. I don't think attracting application developers within Derby is going to work., they are going to be put off by the 1000-2000 messages a month about Derby internals.
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Updated: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Rick Hillegas (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Rick Hillegas updated DERBY-3444:
---------------------------------
Attachment: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
Attach a demo, derby-3444-01-initial.diff. This demonstrates how easy it is to mobilize SQL data stored on a server and load that data into Derby databases running on handsets. Touches the following files:
M build.xml
Top level targets for building the demo and its javadoc.
M java/demo/build.xml
Helper targets invoked from the top level.
A java/demo/tearoffs/README.html
Description of the demo and instructions on how to build and run it. The demo consists of 3 processes: 1) A Derby server which hosts the demo data. 2) A scrap of servlet code which runs in a Tomcat server. 3) A game which uses the data and which runs on a handset.
A java/demo/tearoffs/toolkit/...
A toolkit for declaring parameterized subscriptions of server-hosted data. The data could live in any database with a jdbc driver, including DB2, Oracle, MySQL, Postgres, and Derby itself.
A java/demo/tearoffs/example/customizeMe.properties
A set of variables which you need to customize in order to build and run the demo.
A java/demo/tearoffs/example/db/...
A little bit of code for running a Derby server and loading it with demo data.
A java/demo/tearoffs/example/handset/...
The game which runs on a handset.
A java/demo/tearoffs/example/tomcat/...
The servlet which runs in Tomcat.
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Jean T. Anderson (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571199#action_12571199 ]
Jean T. Anderson commented on DERBY-3444:
-----------------------------------------
Rick, could you confirm that you produced this code as part of the presentation Dan referenced at http://download.java.net/mobileembedded/developerdays/2008/TS-7-tearoffToHandset-final.pdf ?
Do we want to be adding presentation demos to the code base itself?
We actually do have some demos that folks have contributed, but they are hosted on the web site [1] not in the code base itself, and nothing is anywhere near this big.
We've pointed to external resources from the ApacheCon page on the derby site[2] , but we certainly aren't restricted to just ApacheCon-related activities. There's also a "Miscellaneous Derby Presentations" page [3] that hasn't been used much -- I wonder if that might be an option in this case.
[1] http://db.apache.org/derby/integrate/index.html
[2] http://db.apache.org/derby/papers/ApacheCon.html
[3] http://db.apache.org/derby/papers/MiscPresentations.html
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Rick Hillegas (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571494#action_12571494 ]
Rick Hillegas commented on DERBY-3444:
--------------------------------------
It's been a while since I looked at Lucene but their sandbox approach was in the back of my mind. It more or less fits the usage of our java/demo directory: People check in interesting examples and discussions on the user alias refer to those examples. It's a great way to encourage involvement by people who don't have the special skills needed to contribute to the core engine. If we saw enough action in this area, we could consider hiving off the demo directory into a separate repository.
I wasn't aware that we had a policy in this area. Was there a vote or just a discussion that trailed off? We can continue the discussion if necessary. But I don't think we're being overwhelmed by contributions right now. The default mechanism seems adequate at the moment: you can contribute anything you like, you just need to convince a committer that it's worthwhile.
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Andrew McIntyre (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571559#action_12571559 ]
Andrew McIntyre commented on DERBY-3444:
----------------------------------------
Rick said: "I think that the incubator is a fine next stop for efforts that have already developed some traction. I'm less confident about the incubator as square-one for cold-starting a community."
There is one other place for Apache committers to bring code to start working on developing a community around that lacks the rigor of the incubator: labs.apache.org. Any committer can propose a project and check in code there. The goal, of course, is to build community around it, though, and eventually graduate it from labs to the incubator once you have a community. Not sure that this is what is needed in this case, just wanted to point out the alternative to the incubator.
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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[jira] Commented: (DERBY-3444) Tearoff database demo
Posted by "Daniel John Debrunner (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12571447#action_12571447 ]
Daniel John Debrunner commented on DERBY-3444:
----------------------------------------------
> Are we, in fact, deprecating the java/demo directory?
No, though based upon this I'd like to see its growth limited to *simple* demos that focus on some aspect of Derby's technology. E.g. getting a connection, using a table function, using Derby in tomcat, using Java routines, etc.
I don't think having applications in there is a good approach, if say the chat server being discussed on the user list ended up in java/demo then the Apache DB Derby sub-project has basically gone beyond databases into chat servers. I'd like Derby to stay focused, I don't want to see posts about fixing a chat server, a tear-off scheme or any other application on derby-dev (or derbyuser). If the community is not responsive to fixing bugs in these complex demos/applications then the reputation of Derby might suffer.
> separately developed code chunks could be accepted when that code is external and does not affect Derby itself.
No, the Derby project corresponds to the code in svn. Thus any code committed is part of Derby, all needs to be treated equally and follow the Apache Way.
> Tearoff database demo
> ---------------------
>
> Key: DERBY-3444
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-3444
> Project: Derby
> Issue Type: Task
> Components: Demos/Scripts
> Affects Versions: 10.4.0.0
> Reporter: Rick Hillegas
> Attachments: derby-3444-01-initial.diff
>
>
> Create a demonstration of tearoff databases. This shows how to use arbitrary, parameterized queries to tearoff datasets from an arbitrary server-hosted database and load those datasets into a Derby database running on a handset.
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