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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com> on 2007/05/10 00:01:18 UTC
[docs] Please review first draft of graduation guide
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html now has a
reasonable quantity of content. the organisation could probably be
improved, some necessary content has probably been missed and more
proof reading would be good. so, this is a good time to post the draft
for review.
if you can find time, please take a look and post feedback to this
thread, open a JIRA or just patch the document.
- robert
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Re: [docs] Please review first draft of graduation guide
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 5/10/07, Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/10/07, robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html now has a
> > reasonable quantity of content. the organisation could probably be
> > improved, some necessary content has probably been missed and more
> > proof reading would be good. so, this is a good time to post the draft
> > for review.
> >
> > if you can find time, please take a look and post feedback to this
> > thread, open a JIRA or just patch the document.
>
>
> The guide looks good to me, things are clear and well stated as far as I can
> say.
> One minor thing: in "On Community", when you say "it can be beneficial to
> vote and accept a couple of new contributors", shouldn't it be committers?
> We don't have to vote for contributors, or should we?
nope
i've redrafted that passage for the second draft. please take a look
and see what you think
- robert
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Re: [docs] Please review first draft of graduation guide
Posted by Xavier Hanin <xa...@gmail.com>.
On 5/10/07, robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html now has a
> reasonable quantity of content. the organisation could probably be
> improved, some necessary content has probably been missed and more
> proof reading would be good. so, this is a good time to post the draft
> for review.
>
> if you can find time, please take a look and post feedback to this
> thread, open a JIRA or just patch the document.
The guide looks good to me, things are clear and well stated as far as I can
say.
One minor thing: in "On Community", when you say "it can be beneficial to
vote and accept a couple of new contributors", shouldn't it be committers?
We don't have to vote for contributors, or should we?
Xavier
- robert
>
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>
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Re: [docs] Please review first draft of graduation guide
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 5/13/07, Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Robert,
>
> I've read the document and it is in great shape. I've added a new
> issue in JIRA [1] with a patch that does the following:
>
> Fixes for US english, minor spelling error, and added some post
> graduation tasks that typically get overlooked:
> - update pom.xml for mailing lists, repo and site
> - update 3rd party list archives for new mailing lists
looks good. unless anyone beats me to it, i'll take a look at this
after craig has committed his patch.
- robert
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Re: [docs] Please review first draft of graduation guide
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>.
Hi Robert,
I've read the document and it is in great shape. I've added a new
issue in JIRA [1] with a patch that does the following:
Fixes for US english, minor spelling error, and added some post
graduation tasks that typically get overlooked:
- update pom.xml for mailing lists, repo and site
- update 3rd party list archives for new mailing lists
Martijn
[1] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-64
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Re: [docs] Please review first draft of graduation guide
Posted by Marshall Schor <ms...@schor.com>.
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> On 5/12/07, Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Looks really good to me - the only comment I would make is the use of
>> the word "serendipity" which isn't a particularly common and may be
>> confusing, esp. for non-native English speakers.
>
> "serendipity" is not a common word but seems appropriate to me for the
> situation described
>
> can anyone come up with a good alternative?
How about:
Communication through other channels also reduces the chance of
accidental discovery/insight/innovation.
(you might pick one of these words, or even use all 3...).
-Marshall
>
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Re: [docs] Please review first draft of graduation guide
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 5/12/07, Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Looks really good to me - the only comment I would make is the use of
> the word "serendipity" which isn't a particularly common and may be
> confusing, esp. for non-native English speakers.
"serendipity" is not a common word but seems appropriate to me for the
situation described
can anyone come up with a good alternative?
otherwise, i'll add a link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serendipity
- robert
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Re: [docs] Please review first draft of graduation guide
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 5/13/07, Craig L Russell <Cr...@sun.com> wrote:
> > I hope I don't get into the habit of replying to my own emails.
>
> Why not?
hehe
> On May 12, 2007, at 10:55 AM, Craig L Russell wrote:
>
> >> One substantive comment: Under the recommendation vote, I don't
> >> think a Mentor should start the vote in the community. It should
> >> be one of the PPMC members.
> >>
> >
> I think by the time a project is ready to graduate, the Mentors are
> playing much more of a coaching role than an active role, and letting
> the PPMC members take over project management.
+1
- robert
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Re: [docs] Please review first draft of graduation guide
Posted by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM>.
> I hope I don't get into the habit of replying to my own emails.
Why not?
On May 12, 2007, at 10:55 AM, Craig L Russell wrote:
>> One substantive comment: Under the recommendation vote, I don't
>> think a Mentor should start the vote in the community. It should
>> be one of the PPMC members.
>>
>
I think by the time a project is ready to graduate, the Mentors are
playing much more of a coaching role than an active role, and letting
the PPMC members take over project management.
Craig
Craig Russell
DB PMC, OpenJPA PPMC
clr@apache.org http://db.apache.org/jdo
Re: [docs] Please review first draft of graduation guide
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 5/12/07, Craig L Russell <Cr...@sun.com> wrote:
> Is it just me, or did someone remove log4php and log4net from the
> stylesheet and forget to update the site? I get lots of diffs after
> updating the site and then generating it...
nope
turned out that there were a lot of license headers that have never
been updated to the current form. i've committed fixes for this and
back ported the log4* issues. once you update, revert the html
documents, touch the xml documents you changed and then regenerated
the problems should be fixed.
> I have made a bunch of further typo corrections to the graduation
> guide that I'll commit once I get the site stylesheet issue figured out.
great - i hope that these issues should now be resolved and that you
should be able to commit these changes (once you've fixed your local
version)
- robert
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Re: [docs] Please review first draft of graduation guide
Posted by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM>.
Is it just me, or did someone remove log4php and log4net from the
stylesheet and forget to update the site? I get lots of diffs after
updating the site and then generating it...
I have made a bunch of further typo corrections to the graduation
guide that I'll commit once I get the site stylesheet issue figured out.
One substantive comment: Under the recommendation vote, I don't think
a Mentor should start the vote in the community. It should be one of
the PPMC members.
Craig
On May 12, 2007, at 10:28 AM, Niall Pemberton wrote:
> On 5/12/07, robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> On 5/10/07, Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 5/9/07, robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html now has a
>> > > reasonable quantity of content. the organisation could
>> probably be
>> > > improved, some necessary content has probably been missed and
>> more
>> > > proof reading would be good. so, this is a good time to post
>> the draft
>> > > for review.
>> > >
>> > > if you can find time, please take a look and post feedback to
>> this
>> > > thread, open a JIRA or just patch the document.
>> >
>> > I fixed a couple of links/anchors:
>> >
>> > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=536731
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> > The only comment I have for the "On Community" part of the Notes
>> > section is emphasising more that community at the ASF exists on
>> > mailing lists. Probably something we take for granted - but may
>> not be
>> > obvious for newcomers. F2F conversations, IRC, private mail may
>> all be
>> > well and good, but they are non-existent as far as ASF community
>> goes,
>> > unless things are taken back to the list. IMO it would be good to
>> > start this section emphasising this and the fact that the
>> mailing list
>> > archive is the tangible evidence on the health of a community.
>>
>> i've rewritten and expanded that section for the second draft
>>
>> take a look and see what you think
>
> Looks really good to me - the only comment I would make is the use of
> the word "serendipity" which isn't a particularly common and may be
> confusing, esp. for non-native English speakers.
>
> Niall
>
>> - robert
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>
Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Re: [docs] Please review first draft of graduation guide
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On 5/12/07, robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/10/07, Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 5/9/07, robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html now has a
> > > reasonable quantity of content. the organisation could probably be
> > > improved, some necessary content has probably been missed and more
> > > proof reading would be good. so, this is a good time to post the draft
> > > for review.
> > >
> > > if you can find time, please take a look and post feedback to this
> > > thread, open a JIRA or just patch the document.
> >
> > I fixed a couple of links/anchors:
> >
> > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=536731
>
> thanks
>
> > The only comment I have for the "On Community" part of the Notes
> > section is emphasising more that community at the ASF exists on
> > mailing lists. Probably something we take for granted - but may not be
> > obvious for newcomers. F2F conversations, IRC, private mail may all be
> > well and good, but they are non-existent as far as ASF community goes,
> > unless things are taken back to the list. IMO it would be good to
> > start this section emphasising this and the fact that the mailing list
> > archive is the tangible evidence on the health of a community.
>
> i've rewritten and expanded that section for the second draft
>
> take a look and see what you think
Looks really good to me - the only comment I would make is the use of
the word "serendipity" which isn't a particularly common and may be
confusing, esp. for non-native English speakers.
Niall
> - robert
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Re: [docs] Please review first draft of graduation guide
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 5/10/07, Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/9/07, robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html now has a
> > reasonable quantity of content. the organisation could probably be
> > improved, some necessary content has probably been missed and more
> > proof reading would be good. so, this is a good time to post the draft
> > for review.
> >
> > if you can find time, please take a look and post feedback to this
> > thread, open a JIRA or just patch the document.
>
> I fixed a couple of links/anchors:
>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=536731
thanks
> The only comment I have for the "On Community" part of the Notes
> section is emphasising more that community at the ASF exists on
> mailing lists. Probably something we take for granted - but may not be
> obvious for newcomers. F2F conversations, IRC, private mail may all be
> well and good, but they are non-existent as far as ASF community goes,
> unless things are taken back to the list. IMO it would be good to
> start this section emphasising this and the fact that the mailing list
> archive is the tangible evidence on the health of a community.
i've rewritten and expanded that section for the second draft
take a look and see what you think
- robert
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Re: [docs] Please review first draft of graduation guide
Posted by Niall Pemberton <ni...@gmail.com>.
On 5/9/07, robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html now has a
> reasonable quantity of content. the organisation could probably be
> improved, some necessary content has probably been missed and more
> proof reading would be good. so, this is a good time to post the draft
> for review.
>
> if you can find time, please take a look and post feedback to this
> thread, open a JIRA or just patch the document.
I fixed a couple of links/anchors:
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=536731
The only comment I have for the "On Community" part of the Notes
section is emphasising more that community at the ASF exists on
mailing lists. Probably something we take for granted - but may not be
obvious for newcomers. F2F conversations, IRC, private mail may all be
well and good, but they are non-existent as far as ASF community goes,
unless things are taken back to the list. IMO it would be good to
start this section emphasising this and the fact that the mailing list
archive is the tangible evidence on the health of a community.
Otherwise looks good to me.
Niall
> - robert
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Re: [docs] Please review first draft of graduation guide
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 5/13/07, Jean T. Anderson <jt...@bristowhill.com> wrote:
> robert burrell donkin wrote:
> > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html now has a
> > reasonable quantity of content. the organisation could probably be
> > improved, some necessary content has probably been missed and more
> > proof reading would be good. so, this is a good time to post the draft
> > for review.
> >
> > if you can find time, please take a look and post feedback to this
> > thread, open a JIRA or just patch the document.
>
> I'm leaping late into this review
not late at all - this is the right time :-)
> A couple suggestions:
>
> (1) "An Open And Diverse Community" section
>
> Let's spell out what we mean by "diverse" and "diversity" -- the actual
> graduation requirement is to have at least three legally independent
> committers: "The project is not highly dependent on any single
> contributor (there are at least 3 legally independent committers and
> there is no single company or entity that is vital to the success of the
> project)" [1]
yeh - probably want to link the requirement and add some explanation
i've tried to avoid narrowing the discussion to the set criteria and
instead talk about the broader benefits. maybe this new content would
work best as a coda right at the end so that people have to read
through all the rest.
haven't really talked about control by a single corporate entity. i'm
aware that this an issue but i can't think of the right words ATM...
> Side note: there was a discussion on the women@ list about "diversity"
> last August; the discussion thread starts at [2]. One of my guilts is
> having not followed up with general@incubator about that discussion.
not sure i have good answers. probably needs it's own thread.
> (2) "Security" section
>
> "These issues may either be dealt with on a separate list or by the
> private list."
>
> What "separate" list? Why wouldn't a project address security concerns
> on the pmc private list?
some projects find it easier to deal with security issues in this way.
this approach allows a different (usually much smaller) group of
people to handle security issues. this limits the chances of
accidental disclosure. the current netiquette for security issues is
also quite difficult for PMCers who are not experienced in this area.
- robert
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Re: [docs] Please review first draft of graduation guide
Posted by "Jean T. Anderson" <jt...@bristowhill.com>.
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html now has a
> reasonable quantity of content. the organisation could probably be
> improved, some necessary content has probably been missed and more
> proof reading would be good. so, this is a good time to post the draft
> for review.
>
> if you can find time, please take a look and post feedback to this
> thread, open a JIRA or just patch the document.
I'm leaping late into this review, looking at the latest on the web
site. Very nice.
A couple suggestions:
(1) "An Open And Diverse Community" section
Let's spell out what we mean by "diverse" and "diversity" -- the actual
graduation requirement is to have at least three legally independent
committers: "The project is not highly dependent on any single
contributor (there are at least 3 legally independent committers and
there is no single company or entity that is vital to the success of the
project)" [1]
Side note: there was a discussion on the women@ list about "diversity"
last August; the discussion thread starts at [2]. One of my guilts is
having not followed up with general@incubator about that discussion.
(2) "Security" section
"These issues may either be dealt with on a separate list or by the
private list."
What "separate" list? Why wouldn't a project address security concerns
on the pmc private list?
over all, this doc is shaping up great. Nice job!
-jean
[1] http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html
[2]
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-women/200608.mbox/%3c44DC2288.8090009@rowe-clan.net%3e
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