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Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by "Campana Jr., Salvatore J" <sa...@hp.com> on 2005/05/04 15:42:09 UTC
RE: Names and Trademarks
Ok, after trademark searching against our previously voted-upon list, it
seems "Apache Message Broker" seems to be the most reasonable...
This gets straight to the point since it contains two different
messaging implementations, WS-Eventing and WS-Notifications....
How does everyone feel about this?
-Sal
-----Original Message-----
From: Roy T. Fielding [mailto:fielding@gbiv.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 12:51 PM
To: Greg Stein
Cc: dims@apache.org; legal-discuss@apache.org; Springer, Ian P.; Campana
Jr., Salvatore J
Subject: Re: Names and Trademarks
On Apr 26, 2005, at 1:17 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 10:50:14AM -0400, Campana Jr., Salvatore J
> wrote:
>>
>> I just wanted to send a note to mention the names of three projects
>> which will be petitioning to get out of incubation....
>>
>> We've renamed two of the projects for fear of trademark issues, and
>> currently believe we're "ok" with the following names...
>>
>> Projects:
>>
>> Original name New Name
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Apache Apollo Apache WSRF
>> Apache Hermes Apache PubSub
>
> Not sure this will work... see www.pubsub.com. It doesn't seem that
> they have filed a trademark, but still...
And Rohit's <http://www.mod-pubsub.org/>, which has been an Apache httpd
module for a long time, and Tibco's old claims on anything having to so
with publish/subscribe. Why pick an old name for a new project?
....Roy
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Re: Names and Trademarks
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
no other adjective...just plain "Apache Message Broker" and we may use
a short form mxb, for say mxb-dev/mxb-user mailinst lists.
-- dims
On 5/4/05, Noel J. Bergman <no...@devtech.com> wrote:
> Campana Jr., Salvatore J wrote:
>
> > Ok, after trademark searching against our previously voted-upon list, it
> > seems "Apache Message Broker" seems to be the most reasonable...
>
> > This gets straight to the point since it contains two different
> > messaging implementations, WS-Eventing and WS-Notifications....
>
> Seems reasonable to me, too. A nice descriptive name. I'm definitely
> coming down on the side of non-cutsie names, e.g., Apache Directory Server.
>
> Is there any other adjective to apply, e.g., Apache WS (or WebServices)
> Message Broker, just to qualify the domain?
>
> --- Noel
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/
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Re: Names and Trademarks
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Sanjiva,
this was picked from the short-list on the dev mailing list....we
can't force it. they (committers) have to come up with the names....
-- dims
On 5/4/05, Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk> wrote:
> I'm not certain Apache Message Broker is so appropriate for a
> WS-Notification implementation; its far from a real message broker.
>
> How about something scoped a bit more narrowly? "Apache Notification
> System/Engine/Platform"? Since WS-N effectively covers WS-Eventing (or
> BaseNotification and Eventing are basically indistinguishable, except
> for politics ;-)) IMO naming the software under the larger umbrella
> makes sense.
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 10:13 -0400, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > Campana Jr., Salvatore J wrote:
> >
> > > Ok, after trademark searching against our previously voted-upon list, it
> > > seems "Apache Message Broker" seems to be the most reasonable...
> >
> > > This gets straight to the point since it contains two different
> > > messaging implementations, WS-Eventing and WS-Notifications....
> >
> > Seems reasonable to me, too. A nice descriptive name. I'm definitely
> > coming down on the side of non-cutsie names, e.g., Apache Directory Server.
> >
> > Is there any other adjective to apply, e.g., Apache WS (or WebServices)
> > Message Broker, just to qualify the domain?
> >
> > --- Noel
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and educational
> > only, are not privileged and do not constitute legal advice.
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and educational
> only, are not privileged and do not constitute legal advice.
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>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/
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RE: Names and Trademarks
Posted by Sanjiva Weerawarana <sa...@opensource.lk>.
I'm not certain Apache Message Broker is so appropriate for a
WS-Notification implementation; its far from a real message broker.
How about something scoped a bit more narrowly? "Apache Notification
System/Engine/Platform"? Since WS-N effectively covers WS-Eventing (or
BaseNotification and Eventing are basically indistinguishable, except
for politics ;-)) IMO naming the software under the larger umbrella
makes sense.
Sanjiva.
On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 10:13 -0400, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Campana Jr., Salvatore J wrote:
>
> > Ok, after trademark searching against our previously voted-upon list, it
> > seems "Apache Message Broker" seems to be the most reasonable...
>
> > This gets straight to the point since it contains two different
> > messaging implementations, WS-Eventing and WS-Notifications....
>
> Seems reasonable to me, too. A nice descriptive name. I'm definitely
> coming down on the side of non-cutsie names, e.g., Apache Directory Server.
>
> Is there any other adjective to apply, e.g., Apache WS (or WebServices)
> Message Broker, just to qualify the domain?
>
> --- Noel
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and educational
> only, are not privileged and do not constitute legal advice.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>
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RE: Names and Trademarks
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> A nice descriptive name. I'm definitely coming down on the side
> of non-cutsie names, e.g., Apache Directory Server.
> FYI, trademark law is such that a "nice descriptive name" is a
> worse trademark than a "cutsie" name.
Actually, I had removed the adjective "non-trademarkable" from my
description, but it was there.
> Certainly "Apache Message Broker" or any of the other suggestions is more
> descriptive--and perhaps a more useful phrase for prospective customers--
> than some suggestive or fanciful mark like "Axis. But for trademark
> purposes, the more suggestive or fanciful a mark the better. In that case,
> "Apache" is the great trademark, "Message Broker" is merely the
> description of one of the Apache products.
Exactly. I'm not sure that we need, want or should be in the business of
creating product trademarks. Apache is our trademark. The rest just
describes what we are providing.
--- Noel
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RE: Names and Trademarks
Posted by Lawrence Rosen <lr...@rosenlaw.com>.
> Seems reasonable to me, too. A nice descriptive name. I'm definitely
> coming down on the side of non-cutsie names, e.g., Apache Directory
> Server.
FYI, trademark law is such that a "nice descriptive name" is a worse
trademark than a "cutsie" name.
Not that you shouldn't use descriptive words following the mark "Apache" to
describe ASF's various products. Certainly "Apache Message Broker" or any of
the other suggestions is more descriptive--and perhaps a more useful phrase
for prospective customers--than some suggestive or fanciful mark like "Axis.
" But for trademark purposes, the more suggestive or fanciful a mark the
better. In that case, "Apache" is the great trademark, "Message Broker" is
merely the description of one of the Apache products.
Better still is to come up with a pattern of names. The most famous example
of this, perhaps, is the McDonald's set of trademarks ("BigMac" and "Chicken
McNuggets"). But it is probably too late for ASF to come up with trademarks
in a consistent set.
/Larry Rosen
Lawrence Rosen
Rosenlaw & Einschlag, technology law offices (www.rosenlaw.com)
3001 King Ranch Road, Ukiah, CA 95482
707-485-1242 ● fax: 707-485-1243
Author of “Open Source Licensing: Software Freedom and
Intellectual Property Law” (Prentice Hall 2004)
[Available also at www.rosenlaw.com/oslbook.htm]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noel J. Bergman [mailto:noel@devtech.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 7:14 AM
> To: Campana Jr., Salvatore J; Roy T. Fielding; Greg Stein
> Cc: dims@apache.org; legal-discuss@apache.org; Springer, Ian P.
> Subject: RE: Names and Trademarks
>
> Campana Jr., Salvatore J wrote:
>
> > Ok, after trademark searching against our previously voted-upon list, it
> > seems "Apache Message Broker" seems to be the most reasonable...
>
> > This gets straight to the point since it contains two different
> > messaging implementations, WS-Eventing and WS-Notifications....
>
> Seems reasonable to me, too. A nice descriptive name. I'm definitely
> coming down on the side of non-cutsie names, e.g., Apache Directory
> Server.
>
> Is there any other adjective to apply, e.g., Apache WS (or WebServices)
> Message Broker, just to qualify the domain?
>
> --- Noel
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCLAIMER: Discussions on this list are informational and educational
> only, are not privileged and do not constitute legal advice.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
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RE: Names and Trademarks
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Campana Jr., Salvatore J wrote:
> Ok, after trademark searching against our previously voted-upon list, it
> seems "Apache Message Broker" seems to be the most reasonable...
> This gets straight to the point since it contains two different
> messaging implementations, WS-Eventing and WS-Notifications....
Seems reasonable to me, too. A nice descriptive name. I'm definitely
coming down on the side of non-cutsie names, e.g., Apache Directory Server.
Is there any other adjective to apply, e.g., Apache WS (or WebServices)
Message Broker, just to qualify the domain?
--- Noel
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