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Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com> on 2006/07/04 20:13:42 UTC
Clarification of copyright assignments for contributions etc (was Fwd: C++ code contribution(
On the ActiveMQ project we've been contacted by Amazon who've written
a C++ client for ActiveMQ and they want to donate it to Apache. They
have signed a software grant which is on file. They sent us a tarball
which looked good; apart from the source files had Amazon copyright
assignments on them.
We asked them to switch to the standard Apache license header but then
their legal team seems to have got stuck with not knowing the
situation of Amazon v Apache copyrights etc.
Here's their reply...
On 6/27/06, Lusk, Andrew <an...@amazon.com> wrote:
> Since our last correspondence, we've been trying to get the lawyers to figure out the conflicting copyright needs (their requirement for all outgoing source to be under Amazon.com copyright and your requirement for all incoming source to be under Apache copyright are butting heads).
Over the years I've heard mixes messages on this one so I wanted to
check with legal-discuss for a definitive answer. Whats the current
answer for what happens with copyrights when files switch to use the
Apache header - I thought the previous copyright notice should be
removed right? They keep copyright on their version of the files but
are they donating copyright to Apache?
Am just looking for a good answer I can give back to Amazon's legal
team to help get their lawyers unstuck so they can continue with their
contribution :)
--
James
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Re: Clarification of copyright assignments for contributions etc (was Fwd: C++ code contribution(
Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
On Jul 5, 2006, at 10:16 AM, Cliff Schmidt wrote:
> On 7/5/06, Stephen McConnell (DPML) <mc...@apache.org> wrote:
>> This seems to contradict an earlier post from Roy Fielding
>> posted on this list.
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Roy T. Fielding [mailto:fielding@gbiv.com]
>> > Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2006 4:29 AM
>> > To: Stephen McConnell (DPML)
>> > Cc: legal-discuss@apache.org
>> > Subject: Re: New copyright header policy
>> >
>> > On Jun 5, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Stephen McConnell ((DPML)) wrote:
>> > > In addition to the above I would like to know the ASF position
>> > > concerning potentially new contributions to the ASF
>> associated to
>> > > known and reachable contributors via existing copyright
>> > > assertions who are unwilling to acquiesce to the removal of
>> > > copyright statements from existing documents.
>> >
>> > The law does not allow us to remove or alter the copyright
>> > notice without the copyright owner's consent. When new
>> > contributions are made, the responsible PMC decides whether
>> > the contribution is in a form that they deem acceptable, and
>> > either accepts it or rejects it.
>> >
>> > ....Roy
>>
>> Is it correct to assume that the board directive mentioned by Bret
>> effectively overrides the potential for a decisions by a PMC
>> (as asserted by Roy) concerning this subject?
>
> I don't think the board should be micromanaging every case for PMCs,
> but if the board notices that a PMC appears to be allowing some
> authors (individuals or companies), but not others, to include their
> copyright notice within source files, there will be concerns from the
> board. I have no idea what Roy was referring to or if there are other
> exceptions being proposed, but I would assume everyone wants this to
> be applied fairly to all parties.
I was referring to the state of affairs as of last month. I have no
idea what, if any, resolution was recently passed by the board. In any
case, if the board decides to mandate a single policy, then the PMC must
obey that policy when it evaluates a contribution.
....Roy
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Re: Clarification of copyright assignments for contributions etc (was Fwd: C++ code contribution(
Posted by Cliff Schmidt <cl...@gmail.com>.
On 7/5/06, Stephen McConnell (DPML) <mc...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Brett Porter [mailto:brett@apache.org]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2006 9:20 AM
> > To: James Strachan
> > Cc: legal-discuss@apache.org; activemq-ppmc@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Clarification of copyright assignments for
> > contributions etc (was Fwd: C++ code contribution(
> >
> > Passed by the board recently:
> >
> > " 1. If the source file is submitted with a copyright notice
> > included in it, the copyright owner (or owner's agent) must either:
> > a. remove such notices, or
> > b. move them to the NOTICE file associated with each
> > applicable project release, or
> > c. provide written permission for the ASF to make such
> > removal or relocation of the notices.
> > 2. Each source file should include the following license
> > header -- note that there should be no copyright notice in
> > the header:"
>
> This seems to contradict an earlier post from Roy Fielding
> posted on this list.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roy T. Fielding [mailto:fielding@gbiv.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2006 4:29 AM
> > To: Stephen McConnell (DPML)
> > Cc: legal-discuss@apache.org
> > Subject: Re: New copyright header policy
> >
> > On Jun 5, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Stephen McConnell ((DPML)) wrote:
> > > In addition to the above I would like to know the ASF position
> > > concerning potentially new contributions to the ASF associated to
> > > known and reachable contributors via existing copyright
> > > assertions who are unwilling to acquiesce to the removal of
> > > copyright statements from existing documents.
> >
> > The law does not allow us to remove or alter the copyright
> > notice without the copyright owner's consent. When new
> > contributions are made, the responsible PMC decides whether
> > the contribution is in a form that they deem acceptable, and
> > either accepts it or rejects it.
> >
> > ....Roy
>
> Is it correct to assume that the board directive mentioned by Bret
> effectively overrides the potential for a decisions by a PMC
> (as asserted by Roy) concerning this subject?
I don't think the board should be micromanaging every case for PMCs,
but if the board notices that a PMC appears to be allowing some
authors (individuals or companies), but not others, to include their
copyright notice within source files, there will be concerns from the
board. I have no idea what Roy was referring to or if there are other
exceptions being proposed, but I would assume everyone wants this to
be applied fairly to all parties.
Cliff
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Re: Clarification of copyright assignments for contributions etc
(was Fwd: C++ code contribution(
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@apache.org>.
On 6/07/2006 1:03 AM, Stephen McConnell (DPML) wrote:
> This seems to contradict an earlier post from Roy Fielding
> posted on this list.
I don't see a conflict since the text I pasted referred to the copyright
owner or their agent removing the notice, not members of the PMC. I
believe the policy later goes on to say that the PMC might do so, but
only with the copyright owners permission.
- Brett
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RE: Clarification of copyright assignments for contributions etc (was Fwd: C++ code contribution(
Posted by "Stephen McConnell (DPML)" <mc...@apache.org>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brett Porter [mailto:brett@apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, 5 July 2006 9:20 AM
> To: James Strachan
> Cc: legal-discuss@apache.org; activemq-ppmc@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Clarification of copyright assignments for
> contributions etc (was Fwd: C++ code contribution(
>
> Passed by the board recently:
>
> " 1. If the source file is submitted with a copyright notice
> included in it, the copyright owner (or owner's agent) must either:
> a. remove such notices, or
> b. move them to the NOTICE file associated with each
> applicable project release, or
> c. provide written permission for the ASF to make such
> removal or relocation of the notices.
> 2. Each source file should include the following license
> header -- note that there should be no copyright notice in
> the header:"
This seems to contradict an earlier post from Roy Fielding
posted on this list.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roy T. Fielding [mailto:fielding@gbiv.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2006 4:29 AM
> To: Stephen McConnell (DPML)
> Cc: legal-discuss@apache.org
> Subject: Re: New copyright header policy
>
> On Jun 5, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Stephen McConnell ((DPML)) wrote:
> > In addition to the above I would like to know the ASF position
> > concerning potentially new contributions to the ASF associated to
> > known and reachable contributors via existing copyright
> > assertions who are unwilling to acquiesce to the removal of
> > copyright statements from existing documents.
>
> The law does not allow us to remove or alter the copyright
> notice without the copyright owner's consent. When new
> contributions are made, the responsible PMC decides whether
> the contribution is in a form that they deem acceptable, and
> either accepts it or rejects it.
>
> ....Roy
Is it correct to assume that the board directive mentioned by Bret
effectively overrides the potential for a decisions by a PMC
(as asserted by Roy) concerning this subject?
Steve.
--------------------------
Stephen McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@dpml.net
http://www.dpml.net
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Re: Clarification of copyright assignments for contributions etc
(was Fwd: C++ code contribution(
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@apache.org>.
Passed by the board recently:
" 1. If the source file is submitted with a copyright notice included
in it, the copyright owner (or owner's agent) must either:
a. remove such notices, or
b. move them to the NOTICE file associated with each applicable
project release, or
c. provide written permission for the ASF to make such removal or
relocation of the notices.
2. Each source file should include the following license header --
note that there should be no copyright notice in the header:"
So, they need to move the copyright notice from the source files to the
NOTICE file distributed with the code.
The full message is here:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/200606.mbox/%3c1551070F-EDE7-40DC-9C97-79BF24E9FD59@apache.org%3e
Cheers,
Brett
On 5/07/2006 4:13 AM, James Strachan wrote:
> On the ActiveMQ project we've been contacted by Amazon who've written
> a C++ client for ActiveMQ and they want to donate it to Apache. They
> have signed a software grant which is on file. They sent us a tarball
> which looked good; apart from the source files had Amazon copyright
> assignments on them.
>
> We asked them to switch to the standard Apache license header but then
> their legal team seems to have got stuck with not knowing the
> situation of Amazon v Apache copyrights etc.
>
> Here's their reply...
>
> On 6/27/06, Lusk, Andrew <an...@amazon.com> wrote:
>> Since our last correspondence, we've been trying to get the lawyers to
>> figure out the conflicting copyright needs (their requirement for all
>> outgoing source to be under Amazon.com copyright and your requirement
>> for all incoming source to be under Apache copyright are butting heads).
>
>
> Over the years I've heard mixes messages on this one so I wanted to
> check with legal-discuss for a definitive answer. Whats the current
> answer for what happens with copyrights when files switch to use the
> Apache header - I thought the previous copyright notice should be
> removed right? They keep copyright on their version of the files but
> are they donating copyright to Apache?
>
> Am just looking for a good answer I can give back to Amazon's legal
> team to help get their lawyers unstuck so they can continue with their
> contribution :)
--
Brett Porter <br...@apache.org>
Apache Maven - http://maven.apache.org/
Better Builds with Maven - http://library.mergere.com/
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Re: Clarification of copyright assignments for contributions etc (was Fwd: C++ code contribution(
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Wednesday 05 July 2006 02:13, James Strachan wrote:
> Over the years I've heard mixes messages on this one so I wanted to
> check with legal-discuss for a definitive answer. Whats the current
> answer for what happens with copyrights when files switch to use the
> Apache header - I thought the previous copyright notice should be
> removed right? They keep copyright on their version of the files but
> are they donating copyright to Apache?
Yes, what Brett is saying is correct. Note in B2 of the resolution "there
should be no copyright notice in the header".
The previous "Copyright 2006 Apache Software Foundation" in the source files
are not accurate. Apache do not operate with Copyright assigns, and the
contributor will keep that.
So the question to Amazon is whether they are concerned over "keeping the
Copyright" (which they do) or the concern is over keeping their Copyright
mark in source files" (which they won't).
If some files are used elsewhere, they are of course free to keep that and do
whatever they want, and their will not be any Copyright or licensing
conflicts in the future as the "license contribution" will be properly
registered.
Cheers
Niclas
<disclaimer>IANAL</disclaimer>
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