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Posted to p-dev@xerces.apache.org by Dirk-Willem van Gulik <di...@webweaving.org> on 2003/10/29 16:09:17 UTC
xerces-P: CVS, Release process and oversight
Folks,
We need help from this community (xerces-p-dev) to make sure that this
project is still within the fold (and protection) of the ASF. Though we
may be easy going at first - ultimately all ASF projects must adhere to a
few things which allow the PMC and the board to have some level of
oversight - and which meet our legal requirements.
Now the things I am perhaps missing in xerces-P are
-> Release Process and Peer review
At the very least there should be something
of a peer review and a +1 vote to ensure
that all code which goes into CVS is reviewed
by your peers - and that there is some
sort of a trail of this.
In short - check out http://xml.apache.org/guidelines.html (Communication
and Decision Making) and the mission statement. The later also has some
very useful suggestions about posting links to CVS, bugtraqing, release
schedules and so on.
I realize that some of this may not seem to be befitting a a code base
which is this small -and essentially manageable by a single person. But
ultimately it is our aim to ensure that projects are healthy beyond the
lives of even a single developer. And the key asset of the ASF is to
preserve that element of community and peer review.
So please give this some thought. If needed feel free to ask for help - in
the most extreme case we have a whole group of people who do exactly this
in the incubator (helping groups get started) - but also bear in mind that
this is not an optional thing - ultimately the board is going to question
the PMC's oversight - and we'll need to do something. A quick look in the
real world around us does show that attending to the legalities of reality
is crucial.
Dw
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Release process and PMC oversight [WAS xerces-P: CVS, Release process
and oversight]
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@ozemail.com.au>.
Dirk,
Have pushed this to general@ as well, as the following is a broader
question.
I meant to raise a related topic when I got back (next week), but this
seems like an opportune time.
In my wanderings and discussions around the Foundation I have found a
number of people (including at least one member of the board) indicating
that the PMC of any project is supposed to be formally approving all
releases for all code.
For example :
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=general@incubator.apache.org&msgNo=2151
Apparently that means that umbrella PMCs, such as this one, are supposed
to be voting on releases for all sub-projects. We don't do that. To
date we have worked on the basis that there is a PMC member in each
sub-project that is doing the due-diligence.
Now I am not sure if that this requirement for more direct PMC oversite
is formally stated by the board anywhere, but given we have to do a
report for this month's board meeting (see e-mail yet to come) I thought
it might be worth putting the question to the board. But I didn't want
to do so without getting some thoughts from the wider project first.
All thoughts very welcome.
I also think that (at the very least) the PMC might be able to step in
for the code with small committer bases, such as Xerces-P to help out
with the peer review. But again - very open to thoughts.
Cheers,
Berin
Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
> Folks,
>
> We need help from this community (xerces-p-dev) to make sure that this
> project is still within the fold (and protection) of the ASF. Though we
> may be easy going at first - ultimately all ASF projects must adhere to a
> few things which allow the PMC and the board to have some level of
> oversight - and which meet our legal requirements.
>
> Now the things I am perhaps missing in xerces-P are
>
> -> Release Process and Peer review
>
> At the very least there should be something
> of a peer review and a +1 vote to ensure
> that all code which goes into CVS is reviewed
> by your peers - and that there is some
> sort of a trail of this.
>
> In short - check out http://xml.apache.org/guidelines.html (Communication
> and Decision Making) and the mission statement. The later also has some
> very useful suggestions about posting links to CVS, bugtraqing, release
> schedules and so on.
>
> I realize that some of this may not seem to be befitting a a code base
> which is this small -and essentially manageable by a single person. But
> ultimately it is our aim to ensure that projects are healthy beyond the
> lives of even a single developer. And the key asset of the ASF is to
> preserve that element of community and peer review.
>
> So please give this some thought. If needed feel free to ask for help - in
> the most extreme case we have a whole group of people who do exactly this
> in the incubator (helping groups get started) - but also bear in mind that
> this is not an optional thing - ultimately the board is going to question
> the PMC's oversight - and we'll need to do something. A quick look in the
> real world around us does show that attending to the legalities of reality
> is crucial.
>
> Dw
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: pmc-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: pmc-help@xml.apache.org
>
>
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Release process and PMC oversight [WAS xerces-P: CVS, Release process
and oversight]
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@ozemail.com.au>.
Dirk,
Have pushed this to general@ as well, as the following is a broader
question.
I meant to raise a related topic when I got back (next week), but this
seems like an opportune time.
In my wanderings and discussions around the Foundation I have found a
number of people (including at least one member of the board) indicating
that the PMC of any project is supposed to be formally approving all
releases for all code.
For example :
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=general@incubator.apache.org&msgNo=2151
Apparently that means that umbrella PMCs, such as this one, are supposed
to be voting on releases for all sub-projects. We don't do that. To
date we have worked on the basis that there is a PMC member in each
sub-project that is doing the due-diligence.
Now I am not sure if that this requirement for more direct PMC oversite
is formally stated by the board anywhere, but given we have to do a
report for this month's board meeting (see e-mail yet to come) I thought
it might be worth putting the question to the board. But I didn't want
to do so without getting some thoughts from the wider project first.
All thoughts very welcome.
I also think that (at the very least) the PMC might be able to step in
for the code with small committer bases, such as Xerces-P to help out
with the peer review. But again - very open to thoughts.
Cheers,
Berin
Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
> Folks,
>
> We need help from this community (xerces-p-dev) to make sure that this
> project is still within the fold (and protection) of the ASF. Though we
> may be easy going at first - ultimately all ASF projects must adhere to a
> few things which allow the PMC and the board to have some level of
> oversight - and which meet our legal requirements.
>
> Now the things I am perhaps missing in xerces-P are
>
> -> Release Process and Peer review
>
> At the very least there should be something
> of a peer review and a +1 vote to ensure
> that all code which goes into CVS is reviewed
> by your peers - and that there is some
> sort of a trail of this.
>
> In short - check out http://xml.apache.org/guidelines.html (Communication
> and Decision Making) and the mission statement. The later also has some
> very useful suggestions about posting links to CVS, bugtraqing, release
> schedules and so on.
>
> I realize that some of this may not seem to be befitting a a code base
> which is this small -and essentially manageable by a single person. But
> ultimately it is our aim to ensure that projects are healthy beyond the
> lives of even a single developer. And the key asset of the ASF is to
> preserve that element of community and peer review.
>
> So please give this some thought. If needed feel free to ask for help - in
> the most extreme case we have a whole group of people who do exactly this
> in the incubator (helping groups get started) - but also bear in mind that
> this is not an optional thing - ultimately the board is going to question
> the PMC's oversight - and we'll need to do something. A quick look in the
> real world around us does show that attending to the legalities of reality
> is crucial.
>
> Dw
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: pmc-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: pmc-help@xml.apache.org
>
>
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Re: xerces-P: CVS, Release process and oversight
Posted by "Jason E. Stewart" <ja...@openinformatics.com>.
Dirk-Willem van Gulik <di...@webweaving.org> writes:
> At the very least there should be something
> of a peer review and a +1 vote to ensure
> that all code which goes into CVS is reviewed
> by your peers - and that there is some
> sort of a trail of this.
Hi Dirk,
I appreciate the purpose behind the message - however what it lacks is
some specific implementation.
Currently the xerces-p project has one active committer - me.
I would be thrilled and overjoyed if there were more active committers
volunteering there time for the project it would be a great help. But
unfortunately, I have not successfully recruited anyone.
How exactly am I supposed to get a +1 vote on my code submissions if
I'm the only committer?
> So please give this some thought. If needed feel free to ask for
> help - in the most extreme case we have a whole group of people who
> do exactly this in the incubator (helping groups get started)
We're not getting started - we've been an active part of Apache for
three years, we're just a very small part.
jas.
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Re: xerces-P: CVS, Release process and oversight
Posted by "Steven N. Hirsch" <hi...@btv.ibm.com>.
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote:
>
> -> Release Process and Peer review
>
> At the very least there should be something
> of a peer review and a +1 vote to ensure
> that all code which goes into CVS is reviewed
> by your peers - and that there is some
> sort of a trail of this.
>
> In short - check out http://xml.apache.org/guidelines.html (Communication
> and Decision Making) and the mission statement. The later also has some
> very useful suggestions about posting links to CVS, bugtraqing, release
> schedules and so on.
>
> I realize that some of this may not seem to be befitting a a code base
> which is this small -and essentially manageable by a single person. But
> ultimately it is our aim to ensure that projects are healthy beyond the
> lives of even a single developer. And the key asset of the ASF is to
> preserve that element of community and peer review.
Perhaps during this process, we can get someone from the Xerces-C team or
IBM Compiler development group to figure out why exception handling has
never passed regression in any XML-Xerces build for AIX. I have made
several attempts at debugging it, but the older xldb debugger is useless
on C++ code and idebug is unable to successfully load Perl + XML-Xerces
without self-destructing.
None of this has stopped me from actually _using_ it on AIX, but it would
be nice if all the regression tests passed.
Steve
p.s. - IBM does not pay me to speak for the company. Opinions expressed
herein are mine-all-mine.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Steven N. Hirsch tie-line: 446-6557 ext: 802-769-6557
Staff Engineer Methodology Integration Team
ASIC Product Development IBM Microelectronics
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