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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Jérôme Verstrynge <jv...@gmail.com> on 2010/10/18 19:11:49 UTC
Possible migration of the JXTA P2P framework project to ASF
Hi,
My name is Jérôme Verstrynge and I am new to this mailing list. I am the
lead for the latest release of JXTA/JXSE (see jxse.kenai.com), the P2P
framework project initiated by Sun Microsystem in 2001. Although
JXTA/JXSE is still used by GlassFish, Sun has been reducing its
commitment to JXTA in the past 2 years. This project is now supported by
independant contributors from different companies only. Around 20 people
contributed to the last release. We have enough material to initiate a
new release process by the end of this year.
Our main pain point is the lack of quality and performance of Java.net
hosting. We have been investigating other solutions, including Kenai. To
make a long story short, we initiated a transfer to Kenai, but since the
Oracle aquisition, we have received no official confirmation about the
future of Kenai. We have received unofficial information about their
intentions, but in all cases, we should not expect something completely
operational before another year. Their initial commitment to support the
JXTA/JXSE transfert to Kenai is now systematically being postponed. We
experience that we are at the bottom of their priority list and they are
not capable of delivering upon their commitments.
We have started discussions about the future governance of the project
with our representative at Sun/Oracle. We will get definitive and
official answers about Oracle's intentions regarding JXTA/JXSE this
week. We anticipate they will end all commitments to the project.
One option is to move to ASF. Early discussions with our Oracle/Sun
representative revealed that Oracle won't block any fork of the project.
We are currently under a modified Apache 1.0 license and would consider
moving to the Apache 2.0 license. JXTA is a trademark from Sun/Oracle
and we are not sure we will be able to secure its usage.
I have been taking a look at ASF projects, including those in the
incubator, and I can't find any P2P related project. My first question
is: would ASF consider an application from the JXTA/JXSE community? The
purpose of this email is to establish a first contact with you guys.
This week, we will have a 'big' conference call with Oracle. Once
official information is communicated, we'll probably have a community
discussion followed by a vote about the future governance the JXTA/JXSE
project. I am anticipating that ASF will be given the priority, which is
why I send you this email.
Cheers,
Jérôme Verstrynge
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Re: Possible migration of the JXTA P2P framework project to ASF
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 2:46 AM, Jérôme Verstrynge <jv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We are working on getting the relicensing to 2.0. What do you mean by 'it
> allows sublicensing'? Would we, as a community, have the right to relicense
> this code?
IANAL, bring it to legal-discuss@
But a friendly observation; only the copyright owner has the right to
relicense. But ASL 1.1 allows "sub-licensing" within the terms and
conditions of the license. What that means is that you can license as
Apache License v2.0, but must follow all the conditions of 1.1, which
includes among other things, keeping the source headers which can be
unnecessary messy. Better to get the copyright owner to relicense to
2.0
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
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Re: Proposal document for JXTA Migration to ASF under name Chaupal
Posted by Jérôme Verstrynge <jv...@gmail.com>.
On 9/11/2010 8:51, Bernd Fondermann wrote:
> Hi Jerome,
>
> I've been rude and made you angry, and you're totally right. I
> apologize and can only hope that you accept it.
Ok, no problem, we are cool !!!
> I will shut up now before I do any more damage.
No, I guess we are just learning about each other.
Jérôme
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Re: Proposal document for JXTA Migration to ASF under name Chaupal
Posted by Jérôme Verstrynge <jv...@gmail.com>.
On 9/11/2010 5:59, Bernd Fondermann wrote:
>>>>> In a well-working diverse community
>>>>> modeled after the Apache model, I wouldn't expect to see a SPC.
>>>> What is SPC? Can't find a meaningful definition with Google.
>>> Sorry, meant to say SPoC, Single Point of Contact.
>> This is just to organise the transition. It does not make sense to get
>> everyone involved in this process.
> It makes sense for all /interested/ people to get involved. That can
> be a strict subset of Everyone and can have cardinality greater 1.
What factual evidence leads you to conclude that all interested people
are not involved within the JXTA community?
I am keeping everyone informed of what I am doing with ASF on the
current JXTA mailing lists. These lists are registered and google-able.
People know what I am doing, they trust me, but if you don't believe me,
fair enough, but check for yourself please. Don't make assumptions.
> PS: Pls keep this conversation on-list. Thanks.
Bernd,
I find this comment unfair and your attitude rude. It does not help and
does not fit with what I know from ASF. You have sent this email (and
the two previous one) specifically to me. No copy on any ASF mailing
list. Now you are asking me to keep this conversation on-list. This is
plain contradiction.
It was your initiative to have a private conversation. Don't ask me to
fit rules or principles that you don't apply yourself.
If you can't (or won't), then please don't be in contact with me.
Jérôme Verstrynge
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Re: Proposal document for JXTA Migration to ASF under name Chaupal
Posted by Jérôme Verstrynge <jv...@gmail.com>.
On 8/11/2010 3:42, Bernd Fondermann wrote:
> Hi Jerome,
>
> Any reason why you didn't follow Incubator process as Bertrand suggested?
I missed Bertrand's point. Issue solved, see:
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ChaupalProposal
I am the single point of contact for the JXTA community regarding moving
to ASF, but feel free to join us on our dev mailing list if you want to
discuss more technical issues or meet more members (see
https://jxta-jxse.dev.java.net/servlets/ProjectMailingListList).
Cheers,
Jérôme Verstrynge
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Re: Proposal document for JXTA Migration to ASF under name Chaupal
Posted by Bernd Fondermann <be...@googlemail.com>.
Hi Jerome,
Any reason why you didn't follow Incubator process as Bertrand suggested?
We'd be happy to get feedback to know where our documentation[1] is
unclear or lacking detail.
The mailing list archive is also full of best practices of successful
incubation requests.
Thanks,
Bernd
[1] http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html
On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 21:09, Jérôme Verstrynge <jv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Please find our proposal for discussion in attachement. We need a Champion.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jérôme Verstrynge
>
> On 28/10/2010 3:54, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Jérôme Verstrynge<jv...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ...We have not received an answer to this email. Is there anyone
>>> following up
>>> on these requests? Is there something special we need to
>>> perform/deliver?...
>>
>> You can submit your proposal for discussion at
>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ already, even if you don't have a
>> champion or mentors yet. That might help in getting people interested.
>>
>> -Bertrand
>
>
>
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Proposal document for JXTA Migration to ASF under name Chaupal
Posted by Jérôme Verstrynge <jv...@gmail.com>.
Please find our proposal for discussion in attachement. We need a Champion.
Thanks,
Jérôme Verstrynge
On 28/10/2010 3:54, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Jérôme Verstrynge<jv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...We have not received an answer to this email. Is there anyone following up
>> on these requests? Is there something special we need to perform/deliver?...
> You can submit your proposal for discussion at
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ already, even if you don't have a
> champion or mentors yet. That might help in getting people interested.
>
> -Bertrand
Re: JXTA Migration to ASF - Looking for a Champion
Posted by Jérôme Verstrynge <jv...@gmail.com>.
On 28/10/2010 3:54, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Jérôme Verstrynge<jv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...We have not received an answer to this email. Is there anyone following up
>> on these requests? Is there something special we need to perform/deliver?...
> You can submit your proposal for discussion at
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ already, even if you don't have a
> champion or mentors yet. That might help in getting people interested.
>
> -Bertrand
We are currently voting for a new name, I will submit our proposal very
soon. Thanks.
Jérôme
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Re: JXTA Migration to ASF - Looking for a Champion
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Jérôme Verstrynge <jv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...We have not received an answer to this email. Is there anyone following up
> on these requests? Is there something special we need to perform/deliver?...
You can submit your proposal for discussion at
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ already, even if you don't have a
champion or mentors yet. That might help in getting people interested.
-Bertrand
> On 22/10/2010 14:55, Jérôme Verstrynge wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The JXTA community has overwhelmingly voted in favor of migrating to ASF.
>> I understand that we first need to 'recruit' a champion. How does it work?
>> Any volunteers?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jérôme Verstrynge
>
>
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>
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Re: JXTA Migration to ASF - Looking for a Champion
Posted by Jérôme Verstrynge <jv...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
We have not received an answer to this email. Is there anyone following
up on these requests? Is there something special we need to perform/deliver?
Thanks,
Jérôme Verstrynge
On 22/10/2010 14:55, Jérôme Verstrynge wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The JXTA community has overwhelmingly voted in favor of migrating to
> ASF. I understand that we first need to 'recruit' a champion. How does
> it work? Any volunteers?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jérôme Verstrynge
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Re: JXTA Migration to ASF - Looking for a Champion
Posted by SamuelKevin <lo...@gmail.com>.
I've used JXTA as to complete the prototype system of my graduate thesis. I
think it's a great tool. Hope it could join in the community.
regards,
Kevin
2010/10/23 Jérôme Verstrynge <jv...@gmail.com>
> Hi,
>
> The JXTA community has overwhelmingly voted in favor of migrating to ASF. I
> understand that we first need to 'recruit' a champion. How does it work? Any
> volunteers?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jérôme Verstrynge
>
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>
>
--
Bowen Ma a.k.a Samuel Kevin @ Bluesky Dev Team XJTU
Shaanxi Province Key Lab. of Satellite and Terrestrial Network Tech
http://incubator.apache.org/bluesky/
Re: JXTA Migration to ASF - Looking for a Champion
Posted by Jérôme Verstrynge <jv...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for offering!
Jérôme
On 28/10/2010 3:54, Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
> I'm not qualified as a mentor, but I'm in for #3, which should help to
> get a sufficient number.
>
> Jochen
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Re: JXTA Migration to ASF - Looking for a Champion
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
I'm not qualified as a mentor, but I'm in for #3, which should help to
get a sufficient number.
Jochen
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:55 PM, Jérôme Verstrynge <jv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The JXTA community has overwhelmingly voted in favor of migrating to ASF. I
> understand that we first need to 'recruit' a champion. How does it work? Any
> volunteers?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jérôme Verstrynge
>
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>
>
--
I Am What I Am And That's All What I Yam (Popeye)
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JXTA Migration to ASF - Looking for a Champion
Posted by Jérôme Verstrynge <jv...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
The JXTA community has overwhelmingly voted in favor of migrating to
ASF. I understand that we first need to 'recruit' a champion. How does
it work? Any volunteers?
Thanks,
Jérôme Verstrynge
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RE: Possible migration of the JXTA P2P framework project to ASF
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> It seems like an overwhelming victory for ASF in the JXTA community. I
> am preparing a proposal to join the incubator.
Excellent. We look forward to welcoming you.
> Does Apache have a 'legal department'? We have some questions to ask.
Yes. You can start with legal-discuss@apache.org. If necessary, that will
be taken to a closed list, but you can probably get what you need from
legal-discuss.
--- Noel
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Re: Possible migration of the JXTA P2P framework project to ASF
Posted by Jérôme Verstrynge <jv...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
It seems like an overwhelming victory for ASF in the JXTA community. I
am preparing a proposal to join the incubator.
On 19/10/2010 2:53, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> One question; Apache License 1.0?? (or more like 1.1?) Although it
> allows sublicensing, if going sublicensing (to 2.0) I think you still
> need to retain the 1.0/1.1 requirements, such as the license text in
> the source. If you are working with Oracle on IP related to this, try
> and get a grant to relicense their IP rights (now under 1.0/1.1) to
> 2.0... Shouldn't make a difference to them.
We are working on getting the relicensing to 2.0. What do you mean by
'it allows sublicensing'? Would we, as a community, have the right to
relicense this code?
Does Apache have a 'legal department'? We have some questions to ask.
Thanks,
Jérôme Verstrynge
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Re: Possible migration of the JXTA P2P framework project to ASF
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
In general, I would say that JXTA is more than welcome, if your
community thinks that is the best course of action. I would guess that
there is sufficient support in Incubator to bring you on as a podling.
I would presume that you have gone through the Incubator's docs,
especially http://incubator.apache.org/guides/proposal.html
In essence, securing a Champion is your first big challenge. Someone
that will guide the initial steps and creating the proposal. The
Champion might also help locating 3 Mentors, which will be the people
helping the community understand the Apache Way and how we operate at
a detailed level.
One question; Apache License 1.0?? (or more like 1.1?) Although it
allows sublicensing, if going sublicensing (to 2.0) I think you still
need to retain the 1.0/1.1 requirements, such as the license text in
the source. If you are working with Oracle on IP related to this, try
and get a grant to relicense their IP rights (now under 1.0/1.1) to
2.0... Shouldn't make a difference to them.
Cheers
Niclas
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 1:11 AM, Jérôme Verstrynge <jv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> My name is Jérôme Verstrynge and I am new to this mailing list. I am the
> lead for the latest release of JXTA/JXSE (see jxse.kenai.com), the P2P
> framework project initiated by Sun Microsystem in 2001. Although JXTA/JXSE
> is still used by GlassFish, Sun has been reducing its commitment to JXTA in
> the past 2 years. This project is now supported by independant contributors
> from different companies only. Around 20 people contributed to the last
> release. We have enough material to initiate a new release process by the
> end of this year.
>
> Our main pain point is the lack of quality and performance of Java.net
> hosting. We have been investigating other solutions, including Kenai. To
> make a long story short, we initiated a transfer to Kenai, but since the
> Oracle aquisition, we have received no official confirmation about the
> future of Kenai. We have received unofficial information about their
> intentions, but in all cases, we should not expect something completely
> operational before another year. Their initial commitment to support the
> JXTA/JXSE transfert to Kenai is now systematically being postponed. We
> experience that we are at the bottom of their priority list and they are not
> capable of delivering upon their commitments.
>
> We have started discussions about the future governance of the project with
> our representative at Sun/Oracle. We will get definitive and official
> answers about Oracle's intentions regarding JXTA/JXSE this week. We
> anticipate they will end all commitments to the project.
>
> One option is to move to ASF. Early discussions with our Oracle/Sun
> representative revealed that Oracle won't block any fork of the project. We
> are currently under a modified Apache 1.0 license and would consider moving
> to the Apache 2.0 license. JXTA is a trademark from Sun/Oracle and we are
> not sure we will be able to secure its usage.
>
> I have been taking a look at ASF projects, including those in the incubator,
> and I can't find any P2P related project. My first question is: would ASF
> consider an application from the JXTA/JXSE community? The purpose of this
> email is to establish a first contact with you guys.
>
> This week, we will have a 'big' conference call with Oracle. Once official
> information is communicated, we'll probably have a community discussion
> followed by a vote about the future governance the JXTA/JXSE project. I am
> anticipating that ASF will be given the priority, which is why I send you
> this email.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jérôme Verstrynge
>
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>
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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