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Posted to dev@struts.apache.org by Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org> on 2008/08/22 08:31:58 UTC
S2 as JSR for Action Framework
hi all
is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?
java server action framework
right now only component framework there
any idea?
--
--
Frans Thamura
Meruvian Foundation
Mobile: +62 855 7888 699
Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/fthamura
Training JENI, Medallion (Alfresco, Liferay dan Compiere).. buruan...
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Musachy Barroso <mu...@gmail.com>.
> The other point to remember is that this is an all-volunteer open source
> project. To my knowledge, none of the Struts committers is paid to work on
> the development of Struts. Who, exactly, do you imagine would be spending
> their volunteer time sitting on a JCP committee trying to push S2 through
> the standards process? It's *highly* unlikely to be the S2 developers, so
> what you get at the end of the process is highly unlikely to be much like
> S2.
You are right on here. If anyone has some free time to spare, that
time would better go into improving the documentation,fixing bugs, or
helping on the mailing lists. Let companies play their politics and
games, we, we just write code.
musachy
--
"Hey you! Would you help me to carry the stone?" Pink Floyd
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Paul Benedict <pb...@apache.org>.
I am -1 on having Struts 2 be a JSR. Anything that gets pulled into
JEE gets pulled into molasses and I wouldn't want Sun to stick their
hands into this framework. With that said, I wouldn't mind a JSR that
creates an JEE Action Framework that Struts 2 is an implementation of.
Remember the great success Hibernate had with leading the JPA spec?
How about Joda Time leading JSR-310 Date and Time API? Replicate the
procedures that lead to success.
Paul
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org>.
> Struts was, and probably still is, by far the most popular and widely
> deployed web framework on the planet, all without the help of the JCP. There
> are numerous companies that provide commercial support for Struts solely
> because of that. Some of the companies you list above have invested a lot in
> Struts to provide tooling for it because of the demand for that tooling,
> despite it having no "official" status as a standard.
make it the one again :)
> I don't understand your point. Jetspeed 1 existed before JSR 168 and was a
> proprietary, non-standard portal technology for a long time, because there
> was no standard back then. Every portal vendor had their own technology.
> When JSR 168 was formalised, the Pluto code base was donated to the Jetspeed
> project by IBM as the reference implementation for that. Jetspeed 2 was then
> designed around JSR 168 and incorporated the Pluto RI.
in that time, if we develop "portlet", there is portal software, ibm portal ..
>
> Where is the analogy with Struts? Are you suggesting that, if by some chance
> the JCP went off and defined a standard action framework that wasn't Struts,
> and Struts didn't implement that specification, the Struts framework would
> die? That's a tremendous amount of wild speculation, and not something I
> would be willing to base any project decisions on at this point in time!
we can call JavaServer ActionFramework
and Struts as the implementation of it.
so Struts can get JSR 123
and we can add several controller implemenation, if SpringMVC guy in abroad.
but of course Struts ActionSupport is the simplest one i
> We're not a movement, we're an open source project. ;-)
i am not just a struts2 supporter, since webwork 2.0 in our country,
and i see that the component framework is more stronger than action,
and people keep compare Struts with JSF, i think this is not apple to
apple
F
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 5:45 PM, Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org> wrote:
> >
> > Anything's possible. ;-) But why would you do that? Sure, it might result
> in
> > S2 eventually becoming part of Java EE, but Struts has been pretty
> > successful over the last 8 years or so without that, as have other
> > frameworks like Spring and Hibernate. By turning S2 into a JSR, you then
> end
> > up with "design by committee", and lose much of the ability to innovate
> > since you're constrained by what's in the JSR.
>
>
> S2 based on WW, and we know also JCP also have several big company
> that spending in this brand, IBM, Oracle, Sun, RedHat, and the user
> believe that the standard will make the investment more trusted, of
> course Apache is the most trusted one also in non dejure world. using
> Apache brand, the movement will still move.
Struts was, and probably still is, by far the most popular and widely
deployed web framework on the planet, all without the help of the JCP. There
are numerous companies that provide commercial support for Struts solely
because of that. Some of the companies you list above have invested a lot in
Struts to provide tooling for it because of the demand for that tooling,
despite it having no "official" status as a standard.
> i active in Jetspeed long before Jetspeed become JSR 168, and can u
> imagine what happen if Jetspeed develop a non standard tech, what do
> you think of pluto?
I don't understand your point. Jetspeed 1 existed before JSR 168 and was a
proprietary, non-standard portal technology for a long time, because there
was no standard back then. Every portal vendor had their own technology.
When JSR 168 was formalised, the Pluto code base was donated to the Jetspeed
project by IBM as the reference implementation for that. Jetspeed 2 was then
designed around JSR 168 and incorporated the Pluto RI.
Where is the analogy with Struts? Are you suggesting that, if by some chance
the JCP went off and defined a standard action framework that wasn't Struts,
and Struts didn't implement that specification, the Struts framework would
die? That's a tremendous amount of wild speculation, and not something I
would be willing to base any project decisions on at this point in time!
> i think the dispatcher mechanism and http and rest tech is the strong
> point in struts2 and we cannot see JSF model will got this, because
> different approach in development.
>
> my idea is to make new java people and big company that dont want to
> put their risk can use Struts2.
They can do that today. Struts has a long history - longer than any other
Java web framework - of providing a strong framework with a strong community
to back it up. Neither of those things are going away.
The other point to remember is that this is an all-volunteer open source
project. To my knowledge, none of the Struts committers is paid to work on
the development of Struts. Who, exactly, do you imagine would be spending
their volunteer time sitting on a JCP committee trying to push S2 through
the standards process? It's *highly* unlikely to be the S2 developers, so
what you get at the end of the process is highly unlikely to be much like
S2.
this will make the movement more stronger.
We're not a movement, we're an open source project. ;-)
--
Martin Cooper
>
>
>
> F
>
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org>.
>
> Anything's possible. ;-) But why would you do that? Sure, it might result in
> S2 eventually becoming part of Java EE, but Struts has been pretty
> successful over the last 8 years or so without that, as have other
> frameworks like Spring and Hibernate. By turning S2 into a JSR, you then end
> up with "design by committee", and lose much of the ability to innovate
> since you're constrained by what's in the JSR.
S2 based on WW, and we know also JCP also have several big company
that spending in this brand, IBM, Oracle, Sun, RedHat, and the user
believe that the standard will make the investment more trusted, of
course Apache is the most trusted one also in non dejure world. using
Apache brand, the movement will still move.
i active in Jetspeed long before Jetspeed become JSR 168, and can u
imagine what happen if Jetspeed develop a non standard tech, what do
you think of pluto?
i think the dispatcher mechanism and http and rest tech is the strong
point in struts2 and we cannot see JSF model will got this, because
different approach in development.
my idea is to make new java people and big company that dont want to
put their risk can use Struts2.
this will make the movement more stronger.
F
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 11:31 PM, Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org> wrote:
> hi all
>
> is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?
Anything's possible. ;-) But why would you do that? Sure, it might result in
S2 eventually becoming part of Java EE, but Struts has been pretty
successful over the last 8 years or so without that, as have other
frameworks like Spring and Hibernate. By turning S2 into a JSR, you then end
up with "design by committee", and lose much of the ability to innovate
since you're constrained by what's in the JSR.
--
Martin Cooper
>
> java server action framework
>
> right now only component framework there
>
> any idea?
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Frans Thamura
> Meruvian Foundation
>
> Mobile: +62 855 7888 699
> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/fthamura
>
> Training JENI, Medallion (Alfresco, Liferay dan Compiere).. buruan...
> URL:
> http://nagasakti.mervpolis.com/roller/mervnews/entry/jeni_training_compiere_dan_alfresco
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
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>
>
Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org>.
On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 9:04 PM, Ian Roughley <ia...@fdar.com> wrote:
> I've also been thinking along these lines, starting about a year back when
> there was discussions around the convention plug-in. Although it was
> motivated more on a clean annotation implementation - as there seemed to be
> a good synergy between the JSR-311 annotations and what s2 could leverage
> (as opposed to defining new annotations).
if S2 join any JSR or synergy with JSR 311 or anything, or use any JSR
that will be cool. but if the controller can become another JSR, that
will be amazing.
NB: i still dont get, how can JSF become JSR, when in that time Struts
is the market leader, and why dont use S1 as the JSR baseline... a lot
of complain come becuse people want JSR implementation in their
system, and they must migrate S1 to another framework in amazinngly
painfull.
F
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Ian Roughley <ia...@fdar.com>.
I've also been thinking along these lines, starting about a year back
when there was discussions around the convention plug-in. Although it
was motivated more on a clean annotation implementation - as there
seemed to be a good synergy between the JSR-311 annotations and what s2
could leverage (as opposed to defining new annotations).
/Ian
Don Brown wrote:
> Personally, I don't think Struts 2 has a strong enough API, ok, I
> _know_ Struts 2 doesn't have a strong enough API to be turned into a
> JSR, currently anyway. Bob did some work trying to define such an
> API, and is probably 80% of the way there, but I wonder if the
> technology has moved on a bit since then...
>
> For fun in a side project, I'm going back to pure Servlets and a
> simple template language [1] to better understand what a web framework
> really needs to provide. As I see the options now you have:
> * Rails/Merb/Grails - rapid development, scripting language base,
> solid best of breed stack (for Grails anyway) under the covers. On
> the other hand, using any of these to write a hello world war is
> something like 25 megabytes and a ton of dependencies. That is fine
> for shops that need to get something up quickly and are starting from
> scratch, but not for others.
> * JSF/Wicket/Tapestry - component development for swing/drag-and-drop
> folks, ability to wrap up complex bits into new components, usually
> nice tool support. On the other hand, their apps tend to not be
> RESTful and take you quite a ways from HTTP. Also, they usually
> involve a lot of server-side state management which can impact
> scalability and they sometimes rely on a Javascript to really work.
> Finally, each tends to really favor their one template language by
> design, limiting options down the road.
> * Struts/Stripes/Spring MVC - lightweight MVC frameworks with minimal
> dependencies, with a specific focus on the presentation tier. Easy
> access to HTTP features, not much to learn, can fit easily into most
> application stacks, and tend to be very RESTful. These frameworks
> tend to be fast, impose little requirements on the session, and work
> with most template engines.
>
> This idea of a JSR would be standardizing the third group, but I
> wonder if maybe the better direction to go is not a new API, but build
> extensions on JAX-RS [2]. To me, this group's niche is apps that need
> lightweight presentation engines a layer above servlets, but still
> very much "web-y". JSR 311 aims to make restful resources easy to
> build, which isn't far from restful web applications. Especially as
> more and more applications are starting to rely on client-side AJAX
> interfaces, the need for a solid RESTful backend only gets stronger.
> The storage of server-side state of the component frameworks becomes
> less important, and if you don't want the bulk of Grails, this
> approach may be attractive.
>
> For my day job, we need to build REST interfaces to our web apps, so
> we are looking to standardize on JAX-RS. Well, we also need a
> lightweight web framework for our plugin system, and if we are already
> using something like Jersey [3], it would be nice to be able to write
> web apps using the same technology. This use case is obviously very
> specific to our situation, but it is the direction I'll likely be
> taking in the next few months.
>
> Don
>
> [1] http://www.source-code.biz/MiniTemplator/
> [2] https://jsr311.dev.java.net/
> [3] https://jersey.dev.java.net/
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org> wrote:
>
>> hi all
>>
>> is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?
>>
>> java server action framework
>>
>> right now only component framework there
>>
>> any idea?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Frans Thamura
>> Meruvian Foundation
>>
>> Mobile: +62 855 7888 699
>> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/fthamura
>>
>> Training JENI, Medallion (Alfresco, Liferay dan Compiere).. buruan...
>> URL: http://nagasakti.mervpolis.com/roller/mervnews/entry/jeni_training_compiere_dan_alfresco
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
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>
Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org>.
> Another option is a client-side component-based framework like Ext or Flex
> running directly against web services, RESTful or otherwise. No server-side
> web framework required. Of course, you could use something server-side like
> DWR to facilitate working with web services, or Jersey for RESTful services,
> but that would be a choice rather than a requirement.
i think the future in this area of S2
S2 as a SOA server and also a AJAX server, both produce same JSON
output as REstful implementaiton
i see the merger between AJAX and SOA, is this caled SaaS?
F
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Jeromy Evans <je...@blueskyminds.com.au>.
Ralf Fischer wrote:
>
> Well there is a thing like that where you can publish information to
> google or other search engines in one single file. You have to serve a
> file with a name like http://foo.com/site.xml.gz [1] which holds a
> description of your whole site. Sure it's no API, but it gets pretty
> close to what you mention.
>
Thanks Ralf, this is actually far better than I'd ever realized.
Google I/O has a video on the topic from May 08:
http://sites.google.com/site/io/sitemaps-exposing-interactive-and-hidden-content-in-web-applications
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Ralf Fischer <th...@googlemail.com>.
Hi,
Am 25.08.2008 um 06:30 schrieb Jeromy Evans:
> Don Brown wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Martin Cooper
>> <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Another option is a client-side component-based framework like Ext
>>> or Flex
>>> running directly against web services, RESTful or otherwise. No
>>> server-side
>>> web framework required. Of course, you could use something server-
>>> side like
>>> DWR to facilitate working with web services, or Jersey for RESTful
>>> services,
>>> but that would be a choice rather than a requirement.
>>>
>>
>> This is a nice design, when you can do it. GWT is also a good way to
>> build these types of apps. Unfortunately, they can easily break much
>> of what makes the web what it is - the back button, unique,
>> addressable URI's, accessibility, search engine crawling, etc.
>> Therefore, I think some sort of server-side web framework will
>> usually
>> be necessary, however, I don't think it has to go so far as JSF,
>> where
>> they try to push all the state to the server. I was talking with a
>> guy here at work who is looking to start using GWT more about how and
>> where a plain HTML view of the application fits. He wants to do very
>> dynamic, client-side heavy views, but still needs to support search
>> engines and REST clients. What if you use Jersey for your REST API,
>> GWT or straight JQuery for your client-side UI, then have Jersey +
>> something generate HTML views of your REST API, which you could use
>> for search engines and developers wanting to browse and interact with
>> your application. If you can have the HTML representation of your
>> REST API auto-generated, you wouldn't have to maintain two different
>> interfaces, and you could go fully nuts with your client-side heavy
>> app without having to worry about accessibility or search engine
>> issues.
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>
>
> [rant] Personally I think search engines need to solve this
> problem. The era of crawling sites needs to close. As a publisher
> of content I should be able to connect to a Google API and publish
> my content and URIs to them in a standard machine-friendly format
> ready for indexing. Alternatively, I could implement a dedicated-
> service for them to consume instead of emulating pages of content in
> a non-page-oriented application. Then my application then can be
> what it needs to be in any form suitable for my users instead of
> perpetuating the artificial SEO-optimzation industry. [/rant]
Well there is a thing like that where you can publish information to
google or other search engines in one single file. You have to serve a
file with a name like http://foo.com/site.xml.gz [1] which holds a
description of your whole site. Sure it's no API, but it gets pretty
close to what you mention.
Despite that I think struts(2) is in a rather good position. The
biggest deficit is IMO in documentation, and a comprehensible, easy-to-
use taglib with simple AJAX functions which encapsulates all the fuzzy
client side stuff or users who don't want to learn JavaScript, but at
the same are easily to extend by Pros.
Both things are known to the readers of this list and are (more or
less) worked on.
Cheers,
-Ralf
[1] http://groups.google.com/group/google-sitemaps/topics?start=20&sa=N
> Anyway, despite that, I took this approach recently with a client-
> heavy (single page) application myself, with the exception of
> autogeneration of the HTML. Basically:
> - mandated that the client include a custom header (X-RequestedBy)
> and signature in the request
> - if headers present, the S2 rest plugin handled the request and
> returned the resource in the requested content type. I just had to
> build the view myself for html.
> - if the header's not present and it was a GET, the REST plugin
> returned the HTML view and sitemesh decorated it as a full HTML PAGE.
> - if a resource was requested directly and the user had javascript,
> they were redirected to the rich client with the best-guess initial
> state based on the URI
> - all flow control is managed on the client.
>
> That meant that one action could service requests for the resource
> for rich clients and support search engines requests for the same
> content.
> Search engines could browse the site through the same content spread
> over many little well-formed pages.
> Users accessing the site via the search engine's sub-URI would see
> the rich client with appropriate initial state derived from the URI
> On the client-side sensible URIs could still be used in links and
> listeners adjusted the content type when appropriate.
>
> Users without JS could get by but were a low priority. Users with
> screen readers are still a challenge but not due to struts.
>
> This approach wasn't as simple as it should be though but confirms
> that Don's idea is feasible. The biggest problem was in fact with
> IE6 memory leaks and the poor performance of javascript in most
> browsers. A flex client could have used the same services without a
> problem. If automation of a bland html view with a sitemap were
> provided for users without javascript/flash you'd eliminate the
> double-up on the views for search engines.
>
> I definitely like the direction these discussions are going.
>
>
>
>
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Re: Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Musachy Barroso <mu...@gmail.com>.
That is pretty much what I had in mind, the only thing is that I would
suggest to look at the convention plugin instead, as that is what we
will be using, some day. The convention plugin is in then sandbox,
drop an email here if you need help finding your way around in the
code.
musachy
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Jordi Fernandez
<jo...@esilog.com> wrote:
> Hi Musachy,
>
> I've been using struts 2 with the REST plugin in several projects
> and it's been great. It's really nice (thanks for the job, Don!).
> I'd like to make the REST plugin more JSR-311 like, too. I've
> been studying the struts2 source code for some days, focusing
> on the REST and the Codebehind plugin. I've created a new plugin
> based on the REST plugin source code + the ClasspathPackageProvider
> class from the codebehind plugin. I was thinking in the following
> implementation path for initial implementation of a subset of the spec:
>
> - Process jsr-311 @Path annotation with ClasspathPackageProvider to
> configure
> namespaces, packages, etc. to match requests to resource methods
> - Create jsr-311 interceptors to process @MatrixParam, @QueryParam,
> @PathParam,
> etc, annotations.
>
> Am I on the right path? Any advices from the most experienced?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Musachy Barroso wrote:
>>
>> What are the plans for the future of the REST plugin? Has anybody
>> tried to make it more JSR-311 like? I am not a REST user myself, but I
>> am kind of bored and could help if there was a clear understanding of
>> what needs to be done.
>>
>> musachy
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:30 AM, Jeromy Evans
>> <je...@blueskyminds.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>> Don Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Another option is a client-side component-based framework like Ext or
>>>>> Flex
>>>>> running directly against web services, RESTful or otherwise. No
>>>>> server-side
>>>>> web framework required. Of course, you could use something server-side
>>>>> like
>>>>> DWR to facilitate working with web services, or Jersey for RESTful
>>>>> services,
>>>>> but that would be a choice rather than a requirement.
>>>>>
>>>> This is a nice design, when you can do it. GWT is also a good way to
>>>> build these types of apps. Unfortunately, they can easily break much
>>>> of what makes the web what it is - the back button, unique,
>>>> addressable URI's, accessibility, search engine crawling, etc.
>>>> Therefore, I think some sort of server-side web framework will usually
>>>> be necessary, however, I don't think it has to go so far as JSF, where
>>>> they try to push all the state to the server. I was talking with a
>>>> guy here at work who is looking to start using GWT more about how and
>>>> where a plain HTML view of the application fits. He wants to do very
>>>> dynamic, client-side heavy views, but still needs to support search
>>>> engines and REST clients. What if you use Jersey for your REST API,
>>>> GWT or straight JQuery for your client-side UI, then have Jersey +
>>>> something generate HTML views of your REST API, which you could use
>>>> for search engines and developers wanting to browse and interact with
>>>> your application. If you can have the HTML representation of your
>>>> REST API auto-generated, you wouldn't have to maintain two different
>>>> interfaces, and you could go fully nuts with your client-side heavy
>>>> app without having to worry about accessibility or search engine
>>>> issues.
>>>>
>>>> Don
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> [rant] Personally I think search engines need to solve this problem. The
>>> era of crawling sites needs to close. As a publisher of content I should
>>> be
>>> able to connect to a Google API and publish my content and URIs to them
>>> in a
>>> standard machine-friendly format ready for indexing. Alternatively, I
>>> could
>>> implement a dedicated-service for them to consume instead of emulating
>>> pages
>>> of content in a non-page-oriented application. Then my application then
>>> can
>>> be what it needs to be in any form suitable for my users instead of
>>> perpetuating the artificial SEO-optimzation industry. [/rant]
>>>
>>> Anyway, despite that, I took this approach recently with a client-heavy
>>> (single page) application myself, with the exception of autogeneration of
>>> the HTML. Basically:
>>> - mandated that the client include a custom header (X-RequestedBy) and
>>> signature in the request
>>> - if headers present, the S2 rest plugin handled the request and returned
>>> the resource in the requested content type. I just had to build the view
>>> myself for html.
>>> - if the header's not present and it was a GET, the REST plugin returned
>>> the
>>> HTML view and sitemesh decorated it as a full HTML PAGE.
>>> - if a resource was requested directly and the user had javascript, they
>>> were redirected to the rich client with the best-guess initial state
>>> based
>>> on the URI
>>> - all flow control is managed on the client.
>>>
>>> That meant that one action could service requests for the resource for
>>> rich
>>> clients and support search engines requests for the same content.
>>> Search engines could browse the site through the same content spread over
>>> many little well-formed pages.
>>> Users accessing the site via the search engine's sub-URI would see the
>>> rich
>>> client with appropriate initial state derived from the URI
>>> On the client-side sensible URIs could still be used in links and
>>> listeners
>>> adjusted the content type when appropriate.
>>>
>>> Users without JS could get by but were a low priority. Users with screen
>>> readers are still a challenge but not due to struts.
>>>
>>> This approach wasn't as simple as it should be though but confirms that
>>> Don's idea is feasible. The biggest problem was in fact with IE6 memory
>>> leaks and the poor performance of javascript in most browsers. A flex
>>> client could have used the same services without a problem. If
>>> automation
>>> of a bland html view with a sitemap were provided for users without
>>> javascript/flash you'd eliminate the double-up on the views for search
>>> engines.
>>>
>>> I definitely like the direction these discussions are going.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Jordi Fernandez <jo...@esilog.com>.
Hi Musachy,
I've been using struts 2 with the REST plugin in several projects
and it's been great. It's really nice (thanks for the job, Don!).
I'd like to make the REST plugin more JSR-311 like, too. I've
been studying the struts2 source code for some days, focusing
on the REST and the Codebehind plugin. I've created a new plugin
based on the REST plugin source code + the ClasspathPackageProvider
class from the codebehind plugin. I was thinking in the following
implementation path for initial implementation of a subset of the spec:
- Process jsr-311 @Path annotation with ClasspathPackageProvider to
configure
namespaces, packages, etc. to match requests to resource methods
- Create jsr-311 interceptors to process @MatrixParam, @QueryParam,
@PathParam,
etc, annotations.
Am I on the right path? Any advices from the most experienced?
Thanks in advance.
Musachy Barroso wrote:
> What are the plans for the future of the REST plugin? Has anybody
> tried to make it more JSR-311 like? I am not a REST user myself, but I
> am kind of bored and could help if there was a clear understanding of
> what needs to be done.
>
> musachy
>
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:30 AM, Jeromy Evans
> <je...@blueskyminds.com.au> wrote:
>> Don Brown wrote:
>>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Another option is a client-side component-based framework like Ext or
>>>> Flex
>>>> running directly against web services, RESTful or otherwise. No
>>>> server-side
>>>> web framework required. Of course, you could use something server-side
>>>> like
>>>> DWR to facilitate working with web services, or Jersey for RESTful
>>>> services,
>>>> but that would be a choice rather than a requirement.
>>>>
>>> This is a nice design, when you can do it. GWT is also a good way to
>>> build these types of apps. Unfortunately, they can easily break much
>>> of what makes the web what it is - the back button, unique,
>>> addressable URI's, accessibility, search engine crawling, etc.
>>> Therefore, I think some sort of server-side web framework will usually
>>> be necessary, however, I don't think it has to go so far as JSF, where
>>> they try to push all the state to the server. I was talking with a
>>> guy here at work who is looking to start using GWT more about how and
>>> where a plain HTML view of the application fits. He wants to do very
>>> dynamic, client-side heavy views, but still needs to support search
>>> engines and REST clients. What if you use Jersey for your REST API,
>>> GWT or straight JQuery for your client-side UI, then have Jersey +
>>> something generate HTML views of your REST API, which you could use
>>> for search engines and developers wanting to browse and interact with
>>> your application. If you can have the HTML representation of your
>>> REST API auto-generated, you wouldn't have to maintain two different
>>> interfaces, and you could go fully nuts with your client-side heavy
>>> app without having to worry about accessibility or search engine
>>> issues.
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>>
>>
>> [rant] Personally I think search engines need to solve this problem. The
>> era of crawling sites needs to close. As a publisher of content I should be
>> able to connect to a Google API and publish my content and URIs to them in a
>> standard machine-friendly format ready for indexing. Alternatively, I could
>> implement a dedicated-service for them to consume instead of emulating pages
>> of content in a non-page-oriented application. Then my application then can
>> be what it needs to be in any form suitable for my users instead of
>> perpetuating the artificial SEO-optimzation industry. [/rant]
>>
>> Anyway, despite that, I took this approach recently with a client-heavy
>> (single page) application myself, with the exception of autogeneration of
>> the HTML. Basically:
>> - mandated that the client include a custom header (X-RequestedBy) and
>> signature in the request
>> - if headers present, the S2 rest plugin handled the request and returned
>> the resource in the requested content type. I just had to build the view
>> myself for html.
>> - if the header's not present and it was a GET, the REST plugin returned the
>> HTML view and sitemesh decorated it as a full HTML PAGE.
>> - if a resource was requested directly and the user had javascript, they
>> were redirected to the rich client with the best-guess initial state based
>> on the URI
>> - all flow control is managed on the client.
>>
>> That meant that one action could service requests for the resource for rich
>> clients and support search engines requests for the same content.
>> Search engines could browse the site through the same content spread over
>> many little well-formed pages.
>> Users accessing the site via the search engine's sub-URI would see the rich
>> client with appropriate initial state derived from the URI
>> On the client-side sensible URIs could still be used in links and listeners
>> adjusted the content type when appropriate.
>>
>> Users without JS could get by but were a low priority. Users with screen
>> readers are still a challenge but not due to struts.
>>
>> This approach wasn't as simple as it should be though but confirms that
>> Don's idea is feasible. The biggest problem was in fact with IE6 memory
>> leaks and the poor performance of javascript in most browsers. A flex
>> client could have used the same services without a problem. If automation
>> of a bland html view with a sitemap were provided for users without
>> javascript/flash you'd eliminate the double-up on the views for search
>> engines.
>>
>> I definitely like the direction these discussions are going.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Jeromy Evans <je...@blueskyminds.com.au>.
Musachy Barroso wrote:
> What are the plans for the future of the REST plugin? Has anybody
> tried to make it more JSR-311 like? I am not a REST user myself, but I
> am kind of bored and could help if there was a clear understanding of
> what needs to be done.
>
I haven't touched the REST plugin for a while but actively use it. I'm
pretty happy with it but it needs to be exercised more across broader
areas to find remaining problems.
I use it for public JSON, public HTML and private machine<->machine
services (XML).
I support moving in the direction of JSR-311.
My two biggest issues with the plugin at the moment are:
- a public resoruce that's served as XML would typically reference a
schema and/or namespace. This is possible with XStream by writing to
the outputstream prior to serialization, but it will often be different
for each model. The existing ContentTypeHandler can't readily deal with
this binding between model class and schema and it's up to the plugin
user to invent their own strategy. Not sure if JSR-311 addresses this.,
but it could drive an entirely different approach to consuming a
resource with different content-types.
- exception handling is completely ad hoc (up to the plugin user). I
try to get exceptions to fall through to the ExceptionMapper which then
invokes another action that generates a response consistent with the
requested content type. eg. if they requested XML, they should never get
an HTML stacktrace. Not sure if JSR-311 addresses this. The fragility
in this area means I'd opt for a dedicated WS/RS library rather than use
the plugin for genuinely public resources/services.
- and a third: hierarchical URIs (/book/1/chapter/2) require a custom
actionmapper, but shouldn't. In general, support for params in the path
is a little clunky (and undocumented).
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Musachy Barroso <mu...@gmail.com>.
What are the plans for the future of the REST plugin? Has anybody
tried to make it more JSR-311 like? I am not a REST user myself, but I
am kind of bored and could help if there was a clear understanding of
what needs to be done.
musachy
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:30 AM, Jeromy Evans
<je...@blueskyminds.com.au> wrote:
> Don Brown wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Another option is a client-side component-based framework like Ext or
>>> Flex
>>> running directly against web services, RESTful or otherwise. No
>>> server-side
>>> web framework required. Of course, you could use something server-side
>>> like
>>> DWR to facilitate working with web services, or Jersey for RESTful
>>> services,
>>> but that would be a choice rather than a requirement.
>>>
>>
>> This is a nice design, when you can do it. GWT is also a good way to
>> build these types of apps. Unfortunately, they can easily break much
>> of what makes the web what it is - the back button, unique,
>> addressable URI's, accessibility, search engine crawling, etc.
>> Therefore, I think some sort of server-side web framework will usually
>> be necessary, however, I don't think it has to go so far as JSF, where
>> they try to push all the state to the server. I was talking with a
>> guy here at work who is looking to start using GWT more about how and
>> where a plain HTML view of the application fits. He wants to do very
>> dynamic, client-side heavy views, but still needs to support search
>> engines and REST clients. What if you use Jersey for your REST API,
>> GWT or straight JQuery for your client-side UI, then have Jersey +
>> something generate HTML views of your REST API, which you could use
>> for search engines and developers wanting to browse and interact with
>> your application. If you can have the HTML representation of your
>> REST API auto-generated, you wouldn't have to maintain two different
>> interfaces, and you could go fully nuts with your client-side heavy
>> app without having to worry about accessibility or search engine
>> issues.
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>
>
> [rant] Personally I think search engines need to solve this problem. The
> era of crawling sites needs to close. As a publisher of content I should be
> able to connect to a Google API and publish my content and URIs to them in a
> standard machine-friendly format ready for indexing. Alternatively, I could
> implement a dedicated-service for them to consume instead of emulating pages
> of content in a non-page-oriented application. Then my application then can
> be what it needs to be in any form suitable for my users instead of
> perpetuating the artificial SEO-optimzation industry. [/rant]
>
> Anyway, despite that, I took this approach recently with a client-heavy
> (single page) application myself, with the exception of autogeneration of
> the HTML. Basically:
> - mandated that the client include a custom header (X-RequestedBy) and
> signature in the request
> - if headers present, the S2 rest plugin handled the request and returned
> the resource in the requested content type. I just had to build the view
> myself for html.
> - if the header's not present and it was a GET, the REST plugin returned the
> HTML view and sitemesh decorated it as a full HTML PAGE.
> - if a resource was requested directly and the user had javascript, they
> were redirected to the rich client with the best-guess initial state based
> on the URI
> - all flow control is managed on the client.
>
> That meant that one action could service requests for the resource for rich
> clients and support search engines requests for the same content.
> Search engines could browse the site through the same content spread over
> many little well-formed pages.
> Users accessing the site via the search engine's sub-URI would see the rich
> client with appropriate initial state derived from the URI
> On the client-side sensible URIs could still be used in links and listeners
> adjusted the content type when appropriate.
>
> Users without JS could get by but were a low priority. Users with screen
> readers are still a challenge but not due to struts.
>
> This approach wasn't as simple as it should be though but confirms that
> Don's idea is feasible. The biggest problem was in fact with IE6 memory
> leaks and the poor performance of javascript in most browsers. A flex
> client could have used the same services without a problem. If automation
> of a bland html view with a sitemap were provided for users without
> javascript/flash you'd eliminate the double-up on the views for search
> engines.
>
> I definitely like the direction these discussions are going.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
--
"Hey you! Would you help me to carry the stone?" Pink Floyd
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Jeromy Evans <je...@blueskyminds.com.au>.
Don Brown wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Another option is a client-side component-based framework like Ext or Flex
>> running directly against web services, RESTful or otherwise. No server-side
>> web framework required. Of course, you could use something server-side like
>> DWR to facilitate working with web services, or Jersey for RESTful services,
>> but that would be a choice rather than a requirement.
>>
>
> This is a nice design, when you can do it. GWT is also a good way to
> build these types of apps. Unfortunately, they can easily break much
> of what makes the web what it is - the back button, unique,
> addressable URI's, accessibility, search engine crawling, etc.
> Therefore, I think some sort of server-side web framework will usually
> be necessary, however, I don't think it has to go so far as JSF, where
> they try to push all the state to the server. I was talking with a
> guy here at work who is looking to start using GWT more about how and
> where a plain HTML view of the application fits. He wants to do very
> dynamic, client-side heavy views, but still needs to support search
> engines and REST clients. What if you use Jersey for your REST API,
> GWT or straight JQuery for your client-side UI, then have Jersey +
> something generate HTML views of your REST API, which you could use
> for search engines and developers wanting to browse and interact with
> your application. If you can have the HTML representation of your
> REST API auto-generated, you wouldn't have to maintain two different
> interfaces, and you could go fully nuts with your client-side heavy
> app without having to worry about accessibility or search engine
> issues.
>
> Don
>
>
[rant] Personally I think search engines need to solve this problem.
The era of crawling sites needs to close. As a publisher of content I
should be able to connect to a Google API and publish my content and
URIs to them in a standard machine-friendly format ready for indexing.
Alternatively, I could implement a dedicated-service for them to consume
instead of emulating pages of content in a non-page-oriented
application. Then my application then can be what it needs to be in any
form suitable for my users instead of perpetuating the artificial
SEO-optimzation industry. [/rant]
Anyway, despite that, I took this approach recently with a client-heavy
(single page) application myself, with the exception of autogeneration
of the HTML. Basically:
- mandated that the client include a custom header (X-RequestedBy) and
signature in the request
- if headers present, the S2 rest plugin handled the request and
returned the resource in the requested content type. I just had to build
the view myself for html.
- if the header's not present and it was a GET, the REST plugin
returned the HTML view and sitemesh decorated it as a full HTML PAGE.
- if a resource was requested directly and the user had javascript,
they were redirected to the rich client with the best-guess initial
state based on the URI
- all flow control is managed on the client.
That meant that one action could service requests for the resource for
rich clients and support search engines requests for the same content.
Search engines could browse the site through the same content spread
over many little well-formed pages.
Users accessing the site via the search engine's sub-URI would see the
rich client with appropriate initial state derived from the URI
On the client-side sensible URIs could still be used in links and
listeners adjusted the content type when appropriate.
Users without JS could get by but were a low priority. Users with
screen readers are still a challenge but not due to struts.
This approach wasn't as simple as it should be though but confirms that
Don's idea is feasible. The biggest problem was in fact with IE6 memory
leaks and the poor performance of javascript in most browsers. A flex
client could have used the same services without a problem. If
automation of a bland html view with a sitemap were provided for users
without javascript/flash you'd eliminate the double-up on the views for
search engines.
I definitely like the direction these discussions are going.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by "Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>.
Adam Hardy wrote:
> Frank,
>
> do you not use the back button?
>
> I reckon I use it from around 5 to 50 times a day.
>
Of course I do... Although I can't say how often because that would
imply how much surfing the web I'm doing as opposed to actually working
and my boss just *might* read this list some day :)
> I think the paradigm shift is less a shift and more of a paradigm
> split. Web2 and javascript-based apps have taken their place (after 10
> years finally) at the top of the web food chain. What's the best term?
> Rich client?
>
That might be a fair way to put it, and this is something I've talked
extensively about over the past few years... I tend to use the term web
SITE vs. web APP... I talk about that in all of my books actually, and
the first one is a few years old. Web SITES are fundamentally different
animals than web APPS, and I think the rules are a bit different for
their development as well.
> But Web2 hasn't replaced bog-standard HTML as its version number
> suggests, it complements it, leaving a big space for low-Javascript
> clients which just use the barest minimum or no javascript.
>
Yep, I don't disagree with that at all.
> It's obviously only the former websites which need no back-button, and
> obviously the latter where the back button is very useful.
>
Hehe, we're pretty much saying the same thing I think :)
> Maybe W3C has already thought of this - I don't know - and we'll see
> window.disableHistory appear in the DOM (or something similar)
>
>
Sure... about the same time they get rid of the <b> and <i> tags :)
> Regards
> Adam
Frank
--
Frank W. Zammetti
Author of "Practical Dojo Projects"
abd "Practical DWR 2 Projects"
and "Practical JavaScript, DOM Scripting and Ajax Projects"
and "Practical Ajax Projects With Java Technology"
(For info: apress.com/book/search?searchterm=zammetti&act=search)
My "look ma, I have a blog too!" blog: zammetti.com/blog
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Adam Hardy <ah...@cyberspaceroad.com>.
Frank W. Zammetti on 25/08/08 05:36, wrote:
> Don Brown wrote:
>> This is a nice design, when you can do it. GWT is also a good way to
>> build these types of apps. Unfortunately, they can easily break much
>> of what makes the web what it is - the back button, unique,
>> addressable URI's, accessibility, search engine crawling, etc.
>>
> It's always interesting how often you hear the "this breaks the web"
> sorts of statements. I'm not arguing the factuality of the statement, I
> just find it interesting. It's also interesting the way you put it
> here... you don't say anything like "this breaks the web", nor do you
> make a value judgment on it (well, I suppose the word "unfortunately"
> implies a value judgment, but it's not explicit).
>
> I think we're at an interesting point in time right now... many people
> are kind of mentally stuck in the sense that they see the ways in which
> RIAs (can) break things like the back button and they think "well,
> that's bad". But, maybe we shouldn't be asking if RIAs are the way to
> go, but we should instead be asking different questions like "is the
> back button as a navigational metaphor something we really want to be
> perpetuating anyway"?
>
> It's kind of like if someone came up with a hydrogen-based fuel system
> for cars but for some reason (work with me here!) you could never use a
> cell phone in the car or it'd explode... I don't think we shouldn't at
> that point be asking if the fuel system is the right answer or not, we
> should be asking whether the limitation it imposes is something that
> should factor into the decision at all in the first place. Wouldn't we
> be better off if you couldn't use cell phones in cars anyway?!?
>
> Note that I'm not making a value judgment here either necessarily,
> although I suspect my opinion is fairly obvious :) I do think we're in
> the midst of a paradigm shift to a large extent, and I think there's
> some fascinating consequences of that shift.
Frank,
do you not use the back button?
I reckon I use it from around 5 to 50 times a day.
I think the paradigm shift is less a shift and more of a paradigm split. Web2
and javascript-based apps have taken their place (after 10 years finally) at the
top of the web food chain. What's the best term? Rich client?
But Web2 hasn't replaced bog-standard HTML as its version number suggests, it
complements it, leaving a big space for low-Javascript clients which just use
the barest minimum or no javascript.
It's obviously only the former websites which need no back-button, and obviously
the latter where the back button is very useful.
Maybe W3C has already thought of this - I don't know - and we'll see
window.disableHistory appear in the DOM (or something similar)
Regards
Adam
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by "Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>.
Don Brown wrote:
> This is a nice design, when you can do it. GWT is also a good way to
> build these types of apps. Unfortunately, they can easily break much
> of what makes the web what it is - the back button, unique,
> addressable URI's, accessibility, search engine crawling, etc.
>
It's always interesting how often you hear the "this breaks the web"
sorts of statements. I'm not arguing the factuality of the statement, I
just find it interesting. It's also interesting the way you put it
here... you don't say anything like "this breaks the web", nor do you
make a value judgment on it (well, I suppose the word "unfortunately"
implies a value judgment, but it's not explicit).
I think we're at an interesting point in time right now... many people
are kind of mentally stuck in the sense that they see the ways in which
RIAs (can) break things like the back button and they think "well,
that's bad". But, maybe we shouldn't be asking if RIAs are the way to
go, but we should instead be asking different questions like "is the
back button as a navigational metaphor something we really want to be
perpetuating anyway"?
It's kind of like if someone came up with a hydrogen-based fuel system
for cars but for some reason (work with me here!) you could never use a
cell phone in the car or it'd explode... I don't think we shouldn't at
that point be asking if the fuel system is the right answer or not, we
should be asking whether the limitation it imposes is something that
should factor into the decision at all in the first place. Wouldn't we
be better off if you couldn't use cell phones in cars anyway?!?
Note that I'm not making a value judgment here either necessarily,
although I suspect my opinion is fairly obvious :) I do think we're in
the midst of a paradigm shift to a large extent, and I think there's
some fascinating consequences of that shift.
Frank
--
Frank W. Zammetti
Author of "Practical Dojo Projects"
abd "Practical DWR 2 Projects"
and "Practical JavaScript, DOM Scripting and Ajax Projects"
and "Practical Ajax Projects With Java Technology"
(For info: apress.com/book/search?searchterm=zammetti&act=search)
My "look ma, I have a blog too!" blog: zammetti.com/blog
> Don
>
>
>> --
>> Martin Cooper
>>
>>
>> This idea of a JSR would be standardizing the third group, but I
>>
>>> wonder if maybe the better direction to go is not a new API, but build
>>> extensions on JAX-RS [2]. To me, this group's niche is apps that need
>>> lightweight presentation engines a layer above servlets, but still
>>> very much "web-y". JSR 311 aims to make restful resources easy to
>>> build, which isn't far from restful web applications. Especially as
>>> more and more applications are starting to rely on client-side AJAX
>>> interfaces, the need for a solid RESTful backend only gets stronger.
>>> The storage of server-side state of the component frameworks becomes
>>> less important, and if you don't want the bulk of Grails, this
>>> approach may be attractive.
>>>
>>> For my day job, we need to build REST interfaces to our web apps, so
>>> we are looking to standardize on JAX-RS. Well, we also need a
>>> lightweight web framework for our plugin system, and if we are already
>>> using something like Jersey [3], it would be nice to be able to write
>>> web apps using the same technology. This use case is obviously very
>>> specific to our situation, but it is the direction I'll likely be
>>> taking in the next few months.
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>>> [1] http://www.source-code.biz/MiniTemplator/
>>> [2] https://jsr311.dev.java.net/
>>> [3] https://jersey.dev.java.net/
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> hi all
>>>>
>>>> is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?
>>>>
>>>> java server action framework
>>>>
>>>> right now only component framework there
>>>>
>>>> any idea?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> Frans Thamura
>>>> Meruvian Foundation
>>>>
>>>> Mobile: +62 855 7888 699
>>>> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/fthamura
>>>>
>>>> Training JENI, Medallion (Alfresco, Liferay dan Compiere).. buruan...
>>>> URL:
>>>>
>>> http://nagasakti.mervpolis.com/roller/mervnews/entry/jeni_training_compiere_dan_alfresco
>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Don Brown <mr...@twdata.org>.
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> Another option is a client-side component-based framework like Ext or Flex
> running directly against web services, RESTful or otherwise. No server-side
> web framework required. Of course, you could use something server-side like
> DWR to facilitate working with web services, or Jersey for RESTful services,
> but that would be a choice rather than a requirement.
This is a nice design, when you can do it. GWT is also a good way to
build these types of apps. Unfortunately, they can easily break much
of what makes the web what it is - the back button, unique,
addressable URI's, accessibility, search engine crawling, etc.
Therefore, I think some sort of server-side web framework will usually
be necessary, however, I don't think it has to go so far as JSF, where
they try to push all the state to the server. I was talking with a
guy here at work who is looking to start using GWT more about how and
where a plain HTML view of the application fits. He wants to do very
dynamic, client-side heavy views, but still needs to support search
engines and REST clients. What if you use Jersey for your REST API,
GWT or straight JQuery for your client-side UI, then have Jersey +
something generate HTML views of your REST API, which you could use
for search engines and developers wanting to browse and interact with
your application. If you can have the HTML representation of your
REST API auto-generated, you wouldn't have to maintain two different
interfaces, and you could go fully nuts with your client-side heavy
app without having to worry about accessibility or search engine
issues.
Don
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
> This idea of a JSR would be standardizing the third group, but I
>> wonder if maybe the better direction to go is not a new API, but build
>> extensions on JAX-RS [2]. To me, this group's niche is apps that need
>> lightweight presentation engines a layer above servlets, but still
>> very much "web-y". JSR 311 aims to make restful resources easy to
>> build, which isn't far from restful web applications. Especially as
>> more and more applications are starting to rely on client-side AJAX
>> interfaces, the need for a solid RESTful backend only gets stronger.
>> The storage of server-side state of the component frameworks becomes
>> less important, and if you don't want the bulk of Grails, this
>> approach may be attractive.
>>
>> For my day job, we need to build REST interfaces to our web apps, so
>> we are looking to standardize on JAX-RS. Well, we also need a
>> lightweight web framework for our plugin system, and if we are already
>> using something like Jersey [3], it would be nice to be able to write
>> web apps using the same technology. This use case is obviously very
>> specific to our situation, but it is the direction I'll likely be
>> taking in the next few months.
>>
>> Don
>>
>> [1] http://www.source-code.biz/MiniTemplator/
>> [2] https://jsr311.dev.java.net/
>> [3] https://jersey.dev.java.net/
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org> wrote:
>> > hi all
>> >
>> > is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?
>> >
>> > java server action framework
>> >
>> > right now only component framework there
>> >
>> > any idea?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > --
>> > Frans Thamura
>> > Meruvian Foundation
>> >
>> > Mobile: +62 855 7888 699
>> > Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/fthamura
>> >
>> > Training JENI, Medallion (Alfresco, Liferay dan Compiere).. buruan...
>> > URL:
>> http://nagasakti.mervpolis.com/roller/mervnews/entry/jeni_training_compiere_dan_alfresco
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
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>>
>>
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 8:36 PM, Don Brown <mr...@twdata.org> wrote:
> Personally, I don't think Struts 2 has a strong enough API, ok, I
> _know_ Struts 2 doesn't have a strong enough API to be turned into a
> JSR, currently anyway. Bob did some work trying to define such an
> API, and is probably 80% of the way there, but I wonder if the
> technology has moved on a bit since then...
>
> For fun in a side project, I'm going back to pure Servlets and a
> simple template language [1] to better understand what a web framework
> really needs to provide. As I see the options now you have:
> * Rails/Merb/Grails - rapid development, scripting language base,
> solid best of breed stack (for Grails anyway) under the covers. On
> the other hand, using any of these to write a hello world war is
> something like 25 megabytes and a ton of dependencies. That is fine
> for shops that need to get something up quickly and are starting from
> scratch, but not for others.
> * JSF/Wicket/Tapestry - component development for swing/drag-and-drop
> folks, ability to wrap up complex bits into new components, usually
> nice tool support. On the other hand, their apps tend to not be
> RESTful and take you quite a ways from HTTP. Also, they usually
> involve a lot of server-side state management which can impact
> scalability and they sometimes rely on a Javascript to really work.
> Finally, each tends to really favor their one template language by
> design, limiting options down the road.
> * Struts/Stripes/Spring MVC - lightweight MVC frameworks with minimal
> dependencies, with a specific focus on the presentation tier. Easy
> access to HTTP features, not much to learn, can fit easily into most
> application stacks, and tend to be very RESTful. These frameworks
> tend to be fast, impose little requirements on the session, and work
> with most template engines.
Another option is a client-side component-based framework like Ext or Flex
running directly against web services, RESTful or otherwise. No server-side
web framework required. Of course, you could use something server-side like
DWR to facilitate working with web services, or Jersey for RESTful services,
but that would be a choice rather than a requirement.
--
Martin Cooper
This idea of a JSR would be standardizing the third group, but I
> wonder if maybe the better direction to go is not a new API, but build
> extensions on JAX-RS [2]. To me, this group's niche is apps that need
> lightweight presentation engines a layer above servlets, but still
> very much "web-y". JSR 311 aims to make restful resources easy to
> build, which isn't far from restful web applications. Especially as
> more and more applications are starting to rely on client-side AJAX
> interfaces, the need for a solid RESTful backend only gets stronger.
> The storage of server-side state of the component frameworks becomes
> less important, and if you don't want the bulk of Grails, this
> approach may be attractive.
>
> For my day job, we need to build REST interfaces to our web apps, so
> we are looking to standardize on JAX-RS. Well, we also need a
> lightweight web framework for our plugin system, and if we are already
> using something like Jersey [3], it would be nice to be able to write
> web apps using the same technology. This use case is obviously very
> specific to our situation, but it is the direction I'll likely be
> taking in the next few months.
>
> Don
>
> [1] http://www.source-code.biz/MiniTemplator/
> [2] https://jsr311.dev.java.net/
> [3] https://jersey.dev.java.net/
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org> wrote:
> > hi all
> >
> > is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?
> >
> > java server action framework
> >
> > right now only component framework there
> >
> > any idea?
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Frans Thamura
> > Meruvian Foundation
> >
> > Mobile: +62 855 7888 699
> > Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/fthamura
> >
> > Training JENI, Medallion (Alfresco, Liferay dan Compiere).. buruan...
> > URL:
> http://nagasakti.mervpolis.com/roller/mervnews/entry/jeni_training_compiere_dan_alfresco
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> >
> >
>
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>
Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Don Brown <mr...@twdata.org>.
Personally, I don't think Struts 2 has a strong enough API, ok, I
_know_ Struts 2 doesn't have a strong enough API to be turned into a
JSR, currently anyway. Bob did some work trying to define such an
API, and is probably 80% of the way there, but I wonder if the
technology has moved on a bit since then...
For fun in a side project, I'm going back to pure Servlets and a
simple template language [1] to better understand what a web framework
really needs to provide. As I see the options now you have:
* Rails/Merb/Grails - rapid development, scripting language base,
solid best of breed stack (for Grails anyway) under the covers. On
the other hand, using any of these to write a hello world war is
something like 25 megabytes and a ton of dependencies. That is fine
for shops that need to get something up quickly and are starting from
scratch, but not for others.
* JSF/Wicket/Tapestry - component development for swing/drag-and-drop
folks, ability to wrap up complex bits into new components, usually
nice tool support. On the other hand, their apps tend to not be
RESTful and take you quite a ways from HTTP. Also, they usually
involve a lot of server-side state management which can impact
scalability and they sometimes rely on a Javascript to really work.
Finally, each tends to really favor their one template language by
design, limiting options down the road.
* Struts/Stripes/Spring MVC - lightweight MVC frameworks with minimal
dependencies, with a specific focus on the presentation tier. Easy
access to HTTP features, not much to learn, can fit easily into most
application stacks, and tend to be very RESTful. These frameworks
tend to be fast, impose little requirements on the session, and work
with most template engines.
This idea of a JSR would be standardizing the third group, but I
wonder if maybe the better direction to go is not a new API, but build
extensions on JAX-RS [2]. To me, this group's niche is apps that need
lightweight presentation engines a layer above servlets, but still
very much "web-y". JSR 311 aims to make restful resources easy to
build, which isn't far from restful web applications. Especially as
more and more applications are starting to rely on client-side AJAX
interfaces, the need for a solid RESTful backend only gets stronger.
The storage of server-side state of the component frameworks becomes
less important, and if you don't want the bulk of Grails, this
approach may be attractive.
For my day job, we need to build REST interfaces to our web apps, so
we are looking to standardize on JAX-RS. Well, we also need a
lightweight web framework for our plugin system, and if we are already
using something like Jersey [3], it would be nice to be able to write
web apps using the same technology. This use case is obviously very
specific to our situation, but it is the direction I'll likely be
taking in the next few months.
Don
[1] http://www.source-code.biz/MiniTemplator/
[2] https://jsr311.dev.java.net/
[3] https://jersey.dev.java.net/
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org> wrote:
> hi all
>
> is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?
>
> java server action framework
>
> right now only component framework there
>
> any idea?
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Frans Thamura
> Meruvian Foundation
>
> Mobile: +62 855 7888 699
> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/fthamura
>
> Training JENI, Medallion (Alfresco, Liferay dan Compiere).. buruan...
> URL: http://nagasakti.mervpolis.com/roller/mervnews/entry/jeni_training_compiere_dan_alfresco
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org>.
my experience here, i am the company that selling struts2 in this country
and we see that JSF have several complain in several case esp the high
performance
and we see that people try to say JavaEE as the standard, and we must
strict with all JCP related, like JSF,
and if we can make S2 as the action standard, we can have another way
of devleopment in 'JCP'
and also use JCP brand as standard body.. and hopefully can work
together with SpringMVC.. who know.
the power of Java is standard, isnt it? so i think the slow movement
in struts because struts is not part of the standard.
i believe struts2 is the most easies and best Action framework in the earth
and also the standard will make the big vendor also supporting s2,
make plugins etc etc..
i think right now there is only IDEA 8 that will support S2, and the
rest is just JSF
F
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Matt Raible <mr...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Gabriel Belingueres
<be...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The scenario where S2 would become a JCP approved JSR is pretty much scary IMO:
>
> 1) It means it exists a Reference Implementation of S2, or that S2 is
> build upon a RI of something else.
> 2) Any vendor can come up with their own flavors and extensions of the
> JSR, which brings more FUD than solutions.
>
> Instead, I'd like to see S2 building functionality upon itself more like:
>
> 1) the "flow" concept (like Spring WF)
> 2) improving validation framework (validating against JSR 303 compliant POJOs)i
>
> or other things that are not framework specific but useful, like
> having a repository of themes for changing the L&F of the apps. Think
> having to develop a new app, your customer pick a design from
> www.oswd.org and you have to create a new theme for that particular
> design. If you could just find that theme already built THAT would be
> a time saver.
I don't disagree, but this is an interesting read along a similar topic:
http://adactio.com/journal/1498
Matt
>
> 2008/8/22, Wendy Smoak <ws...@gmail.com>:
>> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 11:31 PM, Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org> wrote:
>>
>> > is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?
>> > java server action framework
>> > right now only component framework there
>> > any idea?
>>
>> While I cringe every time I hear someone say that they chose JSF
>> because "It's the standard" there's no way I would want to see Struts
>> 2 attempt the JCP. It wouldn't be Struts 2 by the time you came out
>> the other end, and, well... what Martin said. ;)
>>
>> --
>> Wendy
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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>
--
http://raibledesigns.com
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Gabriel Belingueres <be...@gmail.com>.
The scenario where S2 would become a JCP approved JSR is pretty much scary IMO:
1) It means it exists a Reference Implementation of S2, or that S2 is
build upon a RI of something else.
2) Any vendor can come up with their own flavors and extensions of the
JSR, which brings more FUD than solutions.
Instead, I'd like to see S2 building functionality upon itself more like:
1) the "flow" concept (like Spring WF)
2) improving validation framework (validating against JSR 303 compliant POJOs)i
or other things that are not framework specific but useful, like
having a repository of themes for changing the L&F of the apps. Think
having to develop a new app, your customer pick a design from
www.oswd.org and you have to create a new theme for that particular
design. If you could just find that theme already built THAT would be
a time saver.
2008/8/22, Wendy Smoak <ws...@gmail.com>:
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 11:31 PM, Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org> wrote:
>
> > is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?
> > java server action framework
> > right now only component framework there
> > any idea?
>
> While I cringe every time I hear someone say that they chose JSF
> because "It's the standard" there's no way I would want to see Struts
> 2 attempt the JCP. It wouldn't be Struts 2 by the time you came out
> the other end, and, well... what Martin said. ;)
>
> --
> Wendy
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Wendy Smoak <ws...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 11:31 PM, Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org> wrote:
> is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?
> java server action framework
> right now only component framework there
> any idea?
While I cringe every time I hear someone say that they chose JSF
because "It's the standard" there's no way I would want to see Struts
2 attempt the JCP. It wouldn't be Struts 2 by the time you came out
the other end, and, well... what Martin said. ;)
--
Wendy
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Re: adoption of s2 (was S2 as JSR for Action Framework)
Posted by Jeromy Evans <je...@blueskyminds.com.au>.
Just an interesting note:
According to the Google keyword tool in English speaking countries and
territories:
- the number of searches containing the phrase "struts" (-cars) has
been flat the last 12 months (approx 1,000,000 per month). I wish I
could compare that to previous years.
- this is approximately double the volume of searches containing JSF
(which is trending upwards)
- this is approximately triple the volume of searches containing EJB
(which is trending upwards)
- rails queries exceeds struts by more than 2 times and trending upwards
- grails is low but increasing rapidly (50,000)
- wicket has been relatively steady (135,000)
Unfortunately there's insufficient information for "struts2" or "struts
2". I also wasn't able to narrow it down to spring-specific technology
either (but spring certainly is massively popular at 13M searches/month).
What can be drawn from this? Not much in isolation, but based on my own
behaviour using Google to lookup struts information I'd say there's a
direct positive relationship between search volume and adoption.
Combined with trends in occurrences in job advertisements, user-group
activity and blog-traffic we'd probably get a better idea.
Perhaps it also indicates that struts and spring have more bugs, worse
documentation or less-skilled developers than the "standard"
frameworks. ;-) But I doubt it.
Musachy Barroso wrote:
> That's a good point, and I do have a question myself, how are we doing
> adoption-wise? Judging from the users mailing list traffic, I would
> say well. In any case, just better of talking about this on the user
> list rather than here.
>
> musachy
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 10:52 AM, James Mitchell <jm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Let the marketplace decide.
>>
>> Just my $0.02
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 2:31 AM, Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org> wrote:
>>
>>> hi all
>>>
>>> is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?
>>>
>>> java server action framework
>>>
>>> right now only component framework there
>>>
>>> any idea?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Frans Thamura
>>> Meruvian Foundation
>>>
>>> Mobile: +62 855 7888 699
>>> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/fthamura
>>>
>>> Training JENI, Medallion (Alfresco, Liferay dan Compiere).. buruan...
>>> URL: http://nagasakti.mervpolis.com/roller/mervnews/entry/jeni_training_compiere_dan_alfresco
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> James Mitchell
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by "Frank W. Zammetti" <fz...@omnytex.com>.
Ian Roughley wrote:
> Maybe no-one wants to admit it publicly :-)
Well, if that were true, it'd be a bigger problem than simply slow
adoption rates :)
--
Frank W. Zammetti
Author of "Practical Dojo Projects"
abd "Practical DWR 2 Projects"
and "Practical JavaScript, DOM Scripting and Ajax Projects"
and "Practical Ajax Projects With Java Technology"
(For info: apress.com/book/search?searchterm=zammetti&act=search)
My "look ma, I have a blog too!" blog: zammetti.com/blog
> Not that it's a particularly good metric, but I always thought the
> adoption rates were very slow. However, I'm always surprised how many
> companies are using s2 when I speak to people at conferences. Maybe
> no-one wants to admit it publicly :-)
> /Ian
>
> James Mitchell wrote:
>> That's a hard question to answer. It's probably like politics.
>> You'll get completely different answers depending on who you ask.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Musachy Barroso <mu...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That's a good point, and I do have a question myself, how are we doing
>>> adoption-wise? Judging from the users mailing list traffic, I would
>>> say well. In any case, just better of talking about this on the user
>>> list rather than here.
>>>
>>> musachy
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 10:52 AM, James Mitchell
>>> <jm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Let the marketplace decide.
>>>>
>>>> Just my $0.02
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 2:31 AM, Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> hi all
>>>>>
>>>>> is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?
>>>>>
>>>>> java server action framework
>>>>>
>>>>> right now only component framework there
>>>>>
>>>>> any idea?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> --
>>>>> Frans Thamura
>>>>> Meruvian Foundation
>>>>>
>>>>> Mobile: +62 855 7888 699
>>>>> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/fthamura
>>>>>
>>>>> Training JENI, Medallion (Alfresco, Liferay dan Compiere).. buruan...
>>>>> URL:
>>>>> http://nagasakti.mervpolis.com/roller/mervnews/entry/jeni_training_compiere_dan_alfresco
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> James Mitchell
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "Hey you! Would you help me to carry the stone?" Pink Floyd
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Ian Roughley <ia...@fdar.com>.
Not that it's a particularly good metric, but I always thought the
adoption rates were very slow. However, I'm always surprised how many
companies are using s2 when I speak to people at conferences. Maybe
no-one wants to admit it publicly :-)
/Ian
James Mitchell wrote:
> That's a hard question to answer. It's probably like politics.
> You'll get completely different answers depending on who you ask.
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Musachy Barroso <mu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That's a good point, and I do have a question myself, how are we doing
>> adoption-wise? Judging from the users mailing list traffic, I would
>> say well. In any case, just better of talking about this on the user
>> list rather than here.
>>
>> musachy
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 10:52 AM, James Mitchell <jm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Let the marketplace decide.
>>>
>>> Just my $0.02
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 2:31 AM, Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> hi all
>>>>
>>>> is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?
>>>>
>>>> java server action framework
>>>>
>>>> right now only component framework there
>>>>
>>>> any idea?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> Frans Thamura
>>>> Meruvian Foundation
>>>>
>>>> Mobile: +62 855 7888 699
>>>> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/fthamura
>>>>
>>>> Training JENI, Medallion (Alfresco, Liferay dan Compiere).. buruan...
>>>> URL: http://nagasakti.mervpolis.com/roller/mervnews/entry/jeni_training_compiere_dan_alfresco
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> James Mitchell
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> "Hey you! Would you help me to carry the stone?" Pink Floyd
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by James Mitchell <jm...@gmail.com>.
That's a hard question to answer. It's probably like politics.
You'll get completely different answers depending on who you ask.
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Musachy Barroso <mu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That's a good point, and I do have a question myself, how are we doing
> adoption-wise? Judging from the users mailing list traffic, I would
> say well. In any case, just better of talking about this on the user
> list rather than here.
>
> musachy
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 10:52 AM, James Mitchell <jm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Let the marketplace decide.
>>
>> Just my $0.02
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 2:31 AM, Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org> wrote:
>>> hi all
>>>
>>> is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?
>>>
>>> java server action framework
>>>
>>> right now only component framework there
>>>
>>> any idea?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Frans Thamura
>>> Meruvian Foundation
>>>
>>> Mobile: +62 855 7888 699
>>> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/fthamura
>>>
>>> Training JENI, Medallion (Alfresco, Liferay dan Compiere).. buruan...
>>> URL: http://nagasakti.mervpolis.com/roller/mervnews/entry/jeni_training_compiere_dan_alfresco
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Mitchell
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "Hey you! Would you help me to carry the stone?" Pink Floyd
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
--
James Mitchell
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by Musachy Barroso <mu...@gmail.com>.
That's a good point, and I do have a question myself, how are we doing
adoption-wise? Judging from the users mailing list traffic, I would
say well. In any case, just better of talking about this on the user
list rather than here.
musachy
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 10:52 AM, James Mitchell <jm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Let the marketplace decide.
>
> Just my $0.02
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 2:31 AM, Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org> wrote:
>> hi all
>>
>> is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?
>>
>> java server action framework
>>
>> right now only component framework there
>>
>> any idea?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Frans Thamura
>> Meruvian Foundation
>>
>> Mobile: +62 855 7888 699
>> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/fthamura
>>
>> Training JENI, Medallion (Alfresco, Liferay dan Compiere).. buruan...
>> URL: http://nagasakti.mervpolis.com/roller/mervnews/entry/jeni_training_compiere_dan_alfresco
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> James Mitchell
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
--
"Hey you! Would you help me to carry the stone?" Pink Floyd
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: S2 as JSR for Action Framework
Posted by James Mitchell <jm...@gmail.com>.
Let the marketplace decide.
Just my $0.02
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 2:31 AM, Frans Thamura <fr...@meruvian.org> wrote:
> hi all
>
> is it possible that S2 become part of JCP?
>
> java server action framework
>
> right now only component framework there
>
> any idea?
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Frans Thamura
> Meruvian Foundation
>
> Mobile: +62 855 7888 699
> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/fthamura
>
> Training JENI, Medallion (Alfresco, Liferay dan Compiere).. buruan...
> URL: http://nagasakti.mervpolis.com/roller/mervnews/entry/jeni_training_compiere_dan_alfresco
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>
--
James Mitchell
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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