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Posted to dev@httpd.apache.org by Brian Behlendorf <br...@hyperreal.org> on 1997/10/29 04:32:53 UTC
related commercial projects
What would folks think about splitting up the "related projects" page into
two, one for other development projects, and another for commercial
products based on Apache?
Brian
--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
"it's a big world, with lots of records to play."-sig brian@hyperreal.org
Re: related commercial projects
Posted by Sam Rasins <Sa...@Caribe-Enterprises.com>.
Brian et. al.,
>Speaking of jobs, and knowing that everyone here is overloaded; what do
>folks think about coming up with a list of "open positions", and sending
>that to apache-announce? Right now it's really difficult for someone
>enthusiastic about Apache to know what needs doing, and also gain the
>authority to actually accomplish it within our structure. I'd like to open
>things up a little bit more, and this seems like a good way to do that.
>
>Thoughts?
The jobs-list is a great idea ... and a good start at improving the volume
of work that The Apache Group can produce. I agree that someone that is
"enthusiastic about Apache" may find it difficult to even begin to know
what has to be done.
It is my belief that it is (and should be) difficult to become a member
of the Apache Group. This is a *GOOD* thing. The downside of it is that
there are a lot of able minds and fingers available for producing input
to the process of developing "THE Best HTTPd Server in the WWWorld!!!" ...
that have no "official" channel to offer their comments, suggestions, and
help. Yes, there are mail lists, but NOT targeted specifically to those
who would like to contribute, but do not know the code, do not have the time,
do not have the resources, do not have the skill, are frightened by all the
"other" things one must master (CVS, pserver, the bug-list, etc.), or any other
reason for not being able to be a "member".
What I'd like to propose is a separate forum for the folks that WANT to help
but can't really BE an Apache Group Member. This mail-list (like the "real"
list ... new-httpd) can serve as a "minor-league" or grooming stop for future
Full-Members. It would require one or two Full-Members to moderate (watch
and comment) the list and to [this is important] provide opportunities for
"real Apache" work to be done. What I mean by this is that the Full-Members
can send "tasks" to the "httpd-assist@apache.org" list [for lask of a better
name] which the rest of the Full-Apache members agree can/should be handled
by the httpd-assist group. Of course, the general idea is to offload some
tasks to the httpd-assist list to give you guys some breathing room and allow
others a fertile ground to help. To make it work, the Apache Group members
would have to try and STAY AWAY from those tasks that have been "given" to the
httpd-assist group. Then, as solutions are produced by the httpd-assist list,
they can be culled out (by the moderators) and presented to the new-httpd list
for "official" voting.
Personally, I have been wanting to do more than just read the list, scratch my
head at times, say "ah-ha" many times, and in general marvel at the incredible
speed and efficiency this group works. I have noticed in the last few days
(months) that though a lot of improvement has developed ... your efficiency
has been under seige due to the volume of tasks to be done. Try an addendum
list to off-load the *SIMPLER* tasks.
Thank you, all of you, for your time and efforts into Apache. I am one of
many who benefit from your toil. I also thank you for taking the time to
read and reflect on the ideas presented above.
Regards,
Sambo P-)
<Sa...@Caribe-Enterprises.com>
Good leaders being scarce, following yourself is allowed.
{NOTE: The [random] quote above was provided via the 'fortune' program.}
Re: My IBM IP agreement
Posted by Manoj Kasichainula <ma...@io.com>.
On Sun, Nov 09, 1997 at 12:37:37PM -0600, Manoj Kasichainula wrote:
> I'm traveling to New York in a few hours for a conference, and it so
> happens that I'll be meeting with the person who originally told me
> "no." I'm going to try to convince him to change his mind, telling him
> that I'm not going to come up with anything amazing here, and that you
> all are a lot smarter than me anyway, and that I'll learn a lot from
> doing this, and anything else I can come up with on the way.
Well, the meeting was a partial success. He was quite willing to let
me do this, but the legal department wants to know what specific parts
of the code I would be working on. I've tried to explain that this
would probably be difficult if I were to contribute code for the core
(which I'd like to do once things get started on 2.0). So, it'd really
be helpful if someone could send something (probably personally)
describing how development generally works during non-code freeze
times. Are programmer duties generally partitioned neatly, or is it
more of a free-for-all? Thanks!
I've also asked about libap stuff specifically and am awaiting a
response.
--
Manoj Kasichainula - manojk at io dot com - http://www.io.com/~manojk/
"I realized it was Michael Bolton, and my bowels let loose." - Butthead
My IBM IP agreement (was Re: related commercial projects)
Posted by Manoj Kasichainula <ma...@io.com>.
On Sat, Nov 08, 1997 at 05:27:45PM -0800, Brian Behlendorf wrote:
> At 12:19 PM 10/31/97 -0600, Manoj Kasichainula wrote:
> >
> >Well, the word is that I can't submit anything here unless it goes
> >thorugh someone at IBM who decides if I can give it to you. Sounds
> >like a "no" to me.
>
> Even intellectual property created on your own time not paid for by IBM?
> Sounds illegal to me.
Well, sounds annoying to me, but since IBM is in the web server
business, they can probably claim legality, at least enough so that
I'd use up all my money defending my self. <g> Seriously, though, they
don't cover IP in all aspects, just stuff that has to do with their
business. The problem is that their business covers just about
everything related to computers. And, since I'm a salaried employee,
one interpretation of things says that all my time is their time,
although I'll try to convince them otherwise.
I'm traveling to New York in a few hours for a conference, and it so
happens that I'll be meeting with the person who originally told me
"no." I'm going to try to convince him to change his mind, telling him
that I'm not going to come up with anything amazing here, and that you
all are a lot smarter than me anyway, and that I'll learn a lot from
doing this, and anything else I can come up with on the way.
If you have any tips which might help me convince him, please send
them my way directly rather than to the list, so I can be sure to get
them quickly. Thanks!
--
Manoj Kasichainula - manojk at io dot com - http://www.io.com/~manojk/
"The universe is in fact made up of Fabio." - scientist on _Eek the Cat_
Re: related commercial projects
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@organic.com>.
At 12:19 PM 10/31/97 -0600, Manoj Kasichainula wrote:
>On Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 12:00:17AM -0600, Manoj Kasichainula wrote:
>>
>> Just to update y'all, the person I asked about an exemption didn't
>> laugh at me, which is a very good sign. He said he'd work on it and
>> get back to me. In the mean time, I'll have to be content with working
>> for the guys who saved the U.S. stock market. <g>
>
>Well, the word is that I can't submit anything here unless it goes
>thorugh someone at IBM who decides if I can give it to you. Sounds
>like a "no" to me.
Even intellectual property created on your own time not paid for by IBM?
Sounds illegal to me.
Brian
--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
"it's a big world, with lots of records to play." - sig brian@organic.com
Re: related commercial projects
Posted by Manoj Kasichainula <ma...@io.com>.
On Thu, Oct 30, 1997 at 12:00:17AM -0600, Manoj Kasichainula wrote:
>
> Just to update y'all, the person I asked about an exemption didn't
> laugh at me, which is a very good sign. He said he'd work on it and
> get back to me. In the mean time, I'll have to be content with working
> for the guys who saved the U.S. stock market. <g>
Well, the word is that I can't submit anything here unless it goes
thorugh someone at IBM who decides if I can give it to you. Sounds
like a "no" to me.
Grumblegrumble.
--
Manoj Kasichainula - manojk at io dot com - http://www.io.com/~manojk/
"Very sad life. Probably have very sad death. But at least these is
symmetry." - Zathras in _Babylon 5_
Re: related commercial projects
Posted by Marc Slemko <ma...@worldgate.com>.
On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Manoj Kasichainula wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 29, 1997 at 10:46:08AM -0800, Dean Gaudet wrote:
> >
> > There are some folks here who've offered to do things but we got bogged
> > down in the approval (which is normal for us :). Manoj offerred to
> > maintain all the contrib patches and such -- he'll have to comment on
> > whether his ibm work agreement lets him do this ...
On a general note, I support the idea of posting a "help wanted" note,
however we first need someone familiar with life on new-httpd (not
necessarily group member) to assume a coordinator position. There will be
a lot of people that really can't do anything, or that respond then die,
or that need too much babysitting, etc. Things have to be well-defined.
[...]
> get back to me. In the mean time, I'll have to be content with working
> for the guys who saved the U.S. stock market. <g>
Is that a good thing? <g>
Hey, anyone want to start a rumor about the stock market drop being caused
by a failed North Korean world takeover plan, where the first stage was
economic destruction? Guess that rumor is already around on Usenet.
"23967 newsgroups and not a thing to read."
Re: related commercial projects
Posted by Manoj Kasichainula <ma...@io.com>.
On Wed, Oct 29, 1997 at 10:46:08AM -0800, Dean Gaudet wrote:
>
> There are some folks here who've offered to do things but we got bogged
> down in the approval (which is normal for us :). Manoj offerred to
> maintain all the contrib patches and such -- he'll have to comment on
> whether his ibm work agreement lets him do this ...
Well, AFAIK, maintaining contrib is simply a matter of putting patches
in the appropriate places, writing a little statement about what it
does, and even occasionally testing the patches out. My reading of the
IBM agreeement doesn't cover this. In fact, I think I can even write
documentation, since that counts as "other work", and the rules are
less strict for that (I'd have to be working on that kind of project
at work as well, which I'm not).
Just to update y'all, the person I asked about an exemption didn't
laugh at me, which is a very good sign. He said he'd work on it and
get back to me. In the mean time, I'll have to be content with working
for the guys who saved the U.S. stock market. <g>
--
Manoj Kasichainula - manojk at io dot com - http://www.io.com/~manojk/
"The use of others' words to express one's own perceptions shows a dependence
on received wisdom and a lack of integration of the personal philosophy."
-- The Sophist, "Green Lantern - MOSAIC," Issue #1, June 1992
Re: related commercial projects
Posted by Dean Gaudet <dg...@arctic.org>.
On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Brian Behlendorf wrote:
> Speaking of jobs, and knowing that everyone here is overloaded; what do
> folks think about coming up with a list of "open positions", and sending
> that to apache-announce? Right now it's really difficult for someone
> enthusiastic about Apache to know what needs doing, and also gain the
> authority to actually accomplish it within our structure. I'd like to open
> things up a little bit more, and this seems like a good way to do that.
There are some folks here who've offered to do things but we got bogged
down in the approval (which is normal for us :). Manoj offerred to
maintain all the contrib patches and such -- he'll have to comment on
whether his ibm work agreement lets him do this ...
Dean
Re: related commercial projects
Posted by Brian Behlendorf <br...@organic.com>.
At 09:31 PM 10/28/97 -0700, Marc Slemko wrote:
>Do you mean by "development projects" non-commercial type things?
On one page I'd have:
Programming language integration projects:
PHP/FI
mod_perl
Apache/Java Servlet Kit
Alternate OS support:
OS/2
Amiga
Information Resources:
Apache Week
Add-on software:
Apache-SSL
Apache Module registry
And on the second:
Commercial software based on Apache:
Stronghold
Tenon
Companies providing support for Apache?:
(see below)
Part of this is sparked by the fact that I've been cruising around the
freebsd.org web site, and am green with envy at how well they've put
together a site which lends real real credibility to their product as
something businesses can trust. They've also been successful at breeding
separate mailing lists for separate subjects, and building a good archive
search tool.
So, for "companies providing support for Apache", I'd like us to start
actively soliciting entries for that table. The current table, buried
under /misc/, is way way old and somewhat ugly. Would someone like to take
that on as a task?
Speaking of jobs, and knowing that everyone here is overloaded; what do
folks think about coming up with a list of "open positions", and sending
that to apache-announce? Right now it's really difficult for someone
enthusiastic about Apache to know what needs doing, and also gain the
authority to actually accomplish it within our structure. I'd like to open
things up a little bit more, and this seems like a good way to do that.
Thoughts?
Brian
--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
"it's a big world, with lots of records to play." - sig brian@organic.com
Re: related commercial projects
Posted by Rasmus Lerdorf <ra...@lerdorf.on.ca>.
> What would folks think about splitting up the "related projects" page into
> two, one for other development projects, and another for commercial
> products based on Apache?
I have no problems with that.
-Rasmus
Re: related commercial projects
Posted by Rasmus Lerdorf <ra...@lerdorf.on.ca>.
> Do you mean by "development projects" non-commercial type things?
Things like mod_perl, mod_php, mod_fastcgi, etc. I bet.
-Rasmus
Re: related commercial projects
Posted by Marc Slemko <ma...@worldgate.com>.
Do you mean by "development projects" non-commercial type things?
Sure.
On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, Brian Behlendorf wrote:
>
> What would folks think about splitting up the "related projects" page into
> two, one for other development projects, and another for commercial
> products based on Apache?
>
> Brian
>
>
> --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
> "it's a big world, with lots of records to play."-sig brian@hyperreal.org
>