Kotlin (was: Complaints against Lombok?)

[Kevin Meyer <ke...@kmz.co.za>]

Hi all,

Let me voice my concerns and you can tell me if they're valid or not.

I fully appreciate that "a better Java experience" is a goal that we aim
to satisfy.

A major selling-point of Apache Isis is that it relieves the developer of
*a lot of* mundane stuff that they really don't need to worry about (UI,
DB access, etc).

However, *I* don't want Apache Isis to be locked into anything other than
Java [a].

What does "switch to" Kotlin mean? Will it require any change to existing
user projects?  Will all our users be happy to add Kotlin support to their
projects to continue using Isis?

Of course, whoever wants to can develop and provide whatever resources
they want to users (and announce them on the users mailing list) - as long
as the licensing remains Apache and there is no commercial advertising.

But the *core* Apache Isis infrastructure should continue to be usable by
the wider Java community.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Kevin


[a] This is *my* desire. If the community says it wants to move, then
that's fine. We can take that discussion to the users list at the
appropriate time.


On Fri, September 22, 2017 11:42, Dan Haywood wrote:
> Hi Kev,
>
> To switch topic a little (but not much)... what we all really want is a
> "better Java", in syntax if nothing else.  (Those who know me will know
> what I'm about to say next ...) there's a good argument to advocating and
> ultimately switching to use Kotlin.  I did manage to port the simpleapp
> to Kotlin a year or so ago, it worked fine.  As a first pass, I'm thinking
> of adding a new Kotlin archetype, perhaps initially as part of the Incode
> Platform rather than in Apache Isis proper.
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
> Cheers
> Dan

-- 
Kevin Meyer
Ljubljana, Slovenia

Re: Kotlin (was: Complaints against Lombok?)

[Kevin Meyer <ke...@kmz.co.za>]

Hi Dan,

In that case, I say "Go right ahead!" :)

I've seen some Kotlin in an Android project and it did seem to simplify
matters.

A new archetype for Kotlin would be interesting to see...

Cheers,
Kevin


On Sun, September 24, 2017 12:05, Dan Haywood wrote:
> Hi Kevin,
> I probably didn't phrase that thought well.
>
>
> I don't think that the core framework will ever be written in anything
> other than Java... to change that would be a big decision indeed.
>
> All I'm suggesting now is to provide a new archetype that would let folk
> write their apps in kotlin if they wanted.
>
> Hope that helps,
> Dan.
>
>
> On Sun, 24 Sep 2017, 10:36 Kevin Meyer <ke...@kmz.co.za> wrote:
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>> Let me voice my concerns and you can tell me if they're valid or not.
>>
>>
>> I fully appreciate that "a better Java experience" is a goal that we
>> aim to satisfy.
>>
>> A major selling-point of Apache Isis is that it relieves the developer
>> of *a lot of* mundane stuff that they really don't need to worry about
>> (UI,
>> DB access, etc).
>>
>>
>> However, *I* don't want Apache Isis to be locked into anything other
>> than Java [a].
>>
>>
>> What does "switch to" Kotlin mean? Will it require any change to
>> existing user projects?  Will all our users be happy to add Kotlin
>> support to their projects to continue using Isis?
>>
>> Of course, whoever wants to can develop and provide whatever resources
>> they want to users (and announce them on the users mailing list) - as
>> long as the licensing remains Apache and there is no commercial
>> advertising.
>>
>> But the *core* Apache Isis infrastructure should continue to be usable
>> by the wider Java community.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Kevin
>>
>>
>>
>> [a] This is *my* desire. If the community says it wants to move, then
>> that's fine. We can take that discussion to the users list at the
>> appropriate time.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, September 22, 2017 11:42, Dan Haywood wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Kev,
>>>
>>>
>>> To switch topic a little (but not much)... what we all really want is
>>> a "better Java", in syntax if nothing else.  (Those who know me will
>>> know what I'm about to say next ...) there's a good argument to
>>> advocating and ultimately switching to use Kotlin.  I did manage to
>>> port the simpleapp to Kotlin a year or so ago, it worked fine.  As a
>>> first pass, I'm
>> thinking
>>> of adding a new Kotlin archetype, perhaps initially as part of the
>>> Incode
>>> Platform rather than in Apache Isis proper.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Dan
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Kevin Meyer
>> Ljubljana, Slovenia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
Kevin Meyer
Ljubljana, Slovenia

Re: Kotlin (was: Complaints against Lombok?)

[Dan Haywood <da...@haywood-associates.co.uk>]

Hi Kevin,
I probably didn't phrase that thought well.

I don't think that the core framework will ever be written in anything
other than Java... to change that would be a big decision indeed.

All I'm suggesting now is to provide a new archetype that would let folk
write their apps in kotlin if they wanted.

Hope that helps,
Dan.

On Sun, 24 Sep 2017, 10:36 Kevin Meyer <ke...@kmz.co.za> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Let me voice my concerns and you can tell me if they're valid or not.
>
> I fully appreciate that "a better Java experience" is a goal that we aim
> to satisfy.
>
> A major selling-point of Apache Isis is that it relieves the developer of
> *a lot of* mundane stuff that they really don't need to worry about (UI,
> DB access, etc).
>
> However, *I* don't want Apache Isis to be locked into anything other than
> Java [a].
>
> What does "switch to" Kotlin mean? Will it require any change to existing
> user projects?  Will all our users be happy to add Kotlin support to their
> projects to continue using Isis?
>
> Of course, whoever wants to can develop and provide whatever resources
> they want to users (and announce them on the users mailing list) - as long
> as the licensing remains Apache and there is no commercial advertising.
>
> But the *core* Apache Isis infrastructure should continue to be usable by
> the wider Java community.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> Kevin
>
>
> [a] This is *my* desire. If the community says it wants to move, then
> that's fine. We can take that discussion to the users list at the
> appropriate time.
>
>
> On Fri, September 22, 2017 11:42, Dan Haywood wrote:
> > Hi Kev,
> >
> > To switch topic a little (but not much)... what we all really want is a
> > "better Java", in syntax if nothing else.  (Those who know me will know
> > what I'm about to say next ...) there's a good argument to advocating and
> > ultimately switching to use Kotlin.  I did manage to port the simpleapp
> > to Kotlin a year or so ago, it worked fine.  As a first pass, I'm
> thinking
> > of adding a new Kotlin archetype, perhaps initially as part of the Incode
> > Platform rather than in Apache Isis proper.
> >
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > Dan
>
> --
> Kevin Meyer
> Ljubljana, Slovenia
>
>
>