Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>]

Hi Julien, all,

I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to improve the 
OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some focused effort 
on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP. Also, if we 
imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be attracted which 
will be a win for the community and further development of OFBiz.

Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us an 
update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?

[1] and [2] seem to be abandoned for a while but maybe there are efforts 
which are simply not reported since then?

Thanks for an update and best regards,

Michael


[1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/UI+Improvement

[2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-9137


Am 08.12.16 um 08:29 schrieb Julien NICOLAS:
> Thanks Taher,
>
> Your explanations are sharper than mine, I was on the consistency 
> benefit, you explain about technical benefits.
>
> Anyway, I'll provide also the explanation drawing and screenshot of 
> the UI consistency benefits. That is as important as the technical 
> part :)
>
> Have a nice day,
>
> Julien.
>
>
> On 07/12/2016 17:08, Taher Alkhateeb wrote:
>> I'm sure Julien has good ideas on how to move things about and I'll 
>> let gim
>> express those, I just want to add a conceptual frame for why probably 
>> both
>> Julien and myself sort of agree on the seperation of FTL templates from
>> screen widgets, so here goes ...
>>
>> Aside from the great data model and service engine, OFBiz has something
>> which people like, which is the DSL. The DSL abstracts the database and
>> entities details. The DSL abstracts the services and their details. 
>> The DSL
>> also abstracts configuration. The same is exactly true for the user
>> interface.
>>
>> Why do we have a DSL for entities?  because we want a simple unified
>> language that talks to all the different databases. Why do we have 
>> DSL for
>> services? Because we want a unified way of accessing them regardless 
>> of the
>> implementation programming language.
>>
>> By the same logic, you want a unified simple DSL for creating the user
>> interface without worrying about the details of the output format 
>> whether
>> be it HTML, PDF, Swing, Text or something else.
>>
>> When you define an entity do you go and mix The Entity definition in XML
>> with SQL statements? When you create a service definition do you put the
>> implementation inside that definition? I think the answer to both 
>> questions
>> is no correct?
>>
>> So by the same philosophy and spirit of using the DSL everywhere in a 
>> pure
>> form and putting the implementation details "somewhere else", the same
>> should hold with the user interface.
>>
>> So what are the benefits of this separation?
>>
>> - Naturally you provide a simple DSL for people to quickly create a nice
>> user interface without having to know about all the intricacies of web
>> programming.
>> - you separate the definition from the implementation which allows 
>> you to
>> output to multiple formats without touching the widgets.
>> - you achieve modularity and avoid code repetition. You write every 
>> macro
>> once and only once. Then you use it everywhere indirectly through the
>> widgets.
>> - you achieve separation of concerns. You keep all the Technologies 
>> related
>> to web like CSS HTML and JavaScript in a separate location, while 
>> keeping
>> other logic like processing the DSL and parsing it and building the 
>> model
>> from it in another place.
>> - Changes to web frameworks become much easier (HTML 5? Angular, etc 
>> ...).
>> You can change that stuff without touching any of your widgets.
>>
>> So the issue remaining is whether you folks believe it is worth the 
>> effort
>> and hard work to get this done. We leave that for the community to 
>> decide.
>>
>> I certainly agree with Michael though that we should do this work in a
>> careful manner to minimize the transition pain for adopters of earlier
>> versions.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Taher Alkhateeb
>>
>> On Dec 7, 2016 6:30 PM, "Michael Brohl" <mi...@ecomify.de> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Julien,
>>>
>>> thanks for your explanations.
>>>
>>> It is indeed difficult to explain and understand, I suggest to provide
>>> some kind of diagram or maybe some very simple examples, if you can.
>>>
>>> Please also have in mind that we need to have a migration plan from 
>>> old to
>>> new and we should be able to run old and new in parallel for a 
>>> while, at
>>> least during one full release. We have some responsibility towards 
>>> existing
>>> users.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your appreciated efforts,
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 07.12.16 um 16:16 schrieb Julien NICOLAS:
>>>
>>>> It's a proposal for best practices, because of my own experience on
>>>> making new theme and the impact for a consistency UI.
>>>>
>>>> For example, party details screen is a patchwork of xml screens and 
>>>> ftl
>>>> screens. If you manage to change the HTML structure of a form, 
>>>> it'll affect
>>>> only xml screen thanks to macro ftl. The pure ftl screen keep the 
>>>> old html
>>>> structure and you have to adapt your theme rendering to the html 
>>>> structure
>>>> of the ftl. It's a pity that we have to manage UI screen by screen.
>>>>
>>>> There is no guidelines on how to make a good screen, and you can 
>>>> find for
>>>> the same usage ftl screen and xml screen with different UI... So, 
>>>> we lost
>>>> consistency. If we engage a new start for UI using guidelines, 
>>>> allow to
>>>> make ftl screen with new UI by new developer could be dangerous for
>>>> maintenance.
>>>>
>>>> What I mean is not to forbid ftl screen, but to forbid it for common
>>>> screens that can be managed by xml structured screen in OOTB. In 
>>>> that way,
>>>> we keep the UI consistency in the OOTB.
>>>>
>>>> It's difficult to explain well my tough, I hope to not made a
>>>> misunderstanding :)
>>>>
>>>> Julien.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 07/12/2016 14:45, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am wondering how to understand this:
>>>>>
>>>>> better to not use ftl elsewhere than in macro
>>>>>
>>>>> Is not every ftl template providing macro functionalities? Do you 
>>>>> desire
>>>>> that this project moves away from using ftl templates in any other 
>>>>> place
>>>>> than in a theme?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
>>>>> OFBiz based solutions & services
>>>>>
>>>>> OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
>>>>> http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 2:28 PM, Julien NICOLAS <
>>>>> julien.nicolas@nereide.fr>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> If I understand well, yes.
>>>>>> All html structure must be managed by the theme. In OOTB, it 
>>>>>> could be
>>>>>> really better to not use ftl elsewhere than in macro. This is a 
>>>>>> way that
>>>>>> could be good to follow to have consistency for all screens in 
>>>>>> OFBiz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Julien.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 06/12/2016 11:59, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So you are considering the following:
>>>>>>>     ‘A more flexible and extensible approach is to use the FTL XML
>>>>>>> processing
>>>>>>> features directly instead of going through Java classes. With this
>>>>>>> approach
>>>>>>> adding an attribute or support for a whole new element in the 
>>>>>>> widget
>>>>>>> XML
>>>>>>> files is just a matter of adding it to the FTL macros that 
>>>>>>> process XML
>>>>>>> elements’
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OFBiz based solutions & services
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
>>>>>>> http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 2:05 PM, Julien NICOLAS <
>>>>>>> julien.nicolas@nereide.fr
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pierre,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know if we'll need it or not for now. There is so many 
>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> define but it seems interesting. We will have to start this
>>>>>>>> discussion on
>>>>>>>> the new theme topic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Julien.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 02/12/2016 11:55, pierre wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Julien
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is there any interest into the integration  of a java UI 
>>>>>>>>> framework
>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>> as vaadin?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pierre
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 01/12/2016 23:26, Julien NICOLAS wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I start a page about the POC for the UI improvement.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure if the content is enough but I was wanted to 
>>>>>>>>>> create it.
>>>>>>>>>> We can now start some... Jira ? I was wondering one main Jira 
>>>>>>>>>> linked
>>>>>>>>>> to 4 other sub-jira.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> thanks to those Jira, we can have 4 teams or workgroup to go 
>>>>>>>>>> ahead
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> both ways.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/UI+Improvement
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if I'm doing well,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Julien.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> PS : I'm currently checkout the common-theme provided by 
>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas's
>>>>>>>>>> github (https://github.com/nmalin/ApacheOFBiz/tree/common-theme)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 28/11/2016 11:28, Sharan Foga wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Another one of the topics that came up during the 
>>>>>>>>>>> brainstorming in
>>>>>>>>>>> Seville was around the UI. In fact we had at least 2 
>>>>>>>>>>> presentations
>>>>>>>>>>> from the OFBiz track at Apachecon that were about how we could
>>>>>>>>>>> improve our UI.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If the UI was the main focus - what could the strategy look 
>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>> - User Interface - have 2 versions of the UI, one very clean 
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> simple, the other more advanced. (Our current UI could be the
>>>>>>>>>>> advanced one....?
>>>>>>>>>>> - Separate the web part from the widgets
>>>>>>>>>>> - We have too many fields on one screen (many of them are not
>>>>>>>>>>> mandatory and are just included as optional). What if we 
>>>>>>>>>>> slimmed
>>>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>>>> all the screens to have a sensible default UI for users. The UI
>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>> also be modifiable by service providers. Simplify the 
>>>>>>>>>>> screens with
>>>>>>>>>>> defaults
>>>>>>>>>>> - Use Bootstrap / CSS / Angular
>>>>>>>>>>> - Isolate web related
>>>>>>>>>>> - Define a graphics charter to be used for the screens
>>>>>>>>>>> - Have a CSS convention
>>>>>>>>>>> - Remove web from the framework - it shouldn't be there
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What do people think?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Do people think it would be a good idea to have 2 versions 
>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>> UI? (a simple one and a more advanced one?)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Are these the things we would need to focus on or have in 
>>>>>>>>>>> place
>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>> we wanted to focus on the UI?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (Also I know Nicolas has mentioned that he has already 
>>>>>>>>>>> started work
>>>>>>>>>>> on a Proof of Concept for a common theme  - so do we need to 
>>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>>> sure we agree conventions etc before much more work is done?)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>]

Ah, thanks for the pointer, Jacques.

I forgot about this and will have a look at the work Nicolas did there 
so far.

Regards,

Michael


Am 05.07.17 um 14:09 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
> That makes sense Taher and was already discussed and mostly agreed IIRW.
>
> There is even a Jira for that 
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5776
>
> Jacques
>
>
> Le 05/07/2017 à 13:40, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> My suggestion (other opinions might enrich the discussion) is to limit
>> current work to moving actual web items (html, css, javascript, 
>> images and
>> so on).
>>
>> Moving ftl might be too much work and perhaps widgets should stay where
>> they are. What I suggest moving is things that live in the browser to 
>> the
>> base/common theme.
>>
>> On Jul 5, 2017 11:50 AM, "Michael Brohl" <mi...@ecomify.de> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Taher,
>>
>> do I understand you correctly that you want to move all screen 
>> definitions
>> and the ftl template files (containing the html) to a central component
>> outside the framework/applications?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Michael
>>
>> Am 04.07.17 um 23:50 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>
>> Hi Michael,
>>> I think we agree, just a difference in semantics. What I mean by web
>>> is anything CSS, JavaScript, or HTML, not FreeMarker (for now). The
>>> smaller the effort the bigger the chances to move this initiative
>>> forward, so yeah I think we're on the same page.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 12:35 AM, Michael Brohl 
>>> <mi...@ecomify.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Taher,
>>>>
>>>> I agree that all ressources like images, css etc. should be moved 
>>>> away in
>>>> a
>>>> foundation component. I am not sure if I can follow your suggestion to
>>>> move
>>>> everything web-related from the framework to another component. In my
>>>> mind,
>>>> the foundation for the UI development (Renderer, macro libraries,
>>>> transformers etc.) should reside in the framework.
>>>>
>>>> I think it would be also a too big move to rewrite/move all this at 
>>>> once
>>>> and
>>>> has not enough visible impact for users to be highly prioritized.
>>>>
>>>> For me, a new and modern UI would be the highest priority at the 
>>>> moment. I
>>>> hope that this will attract more contributors and more users to 
>>>> grow the
>>>> community.
>>>>
>>>> After this, more restructuring and separation can be done.
>>>>
>>>> At ecomify, we are currently evaluating if we can set a team on it to
>>>> implement a new UI. It will be a lot of work and a big effort for 
>>>> us but I
>>>> think it's worth it. We'll see how this will work out and how we can
>>>> contribute this back to the project.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps
>>>>> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get
>>>>> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next
>>>>> actions could be the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Create a base theme
>>>>> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery,
>>>>> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look
>>>>> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme.
>>>>> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in
>>>>> the theme.
>>>>> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme
>>>>>
>>>>> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do
>>>>> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time
>>>>> until we get some action first :)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>>>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi James,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks for your suggestions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies 
>>>>>>> because it
>>>>>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not 
>>>>>>> sure if we
>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>> to go so far.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-diff
>>>>>> erence-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp
>>>>>> and both are parts of JavaEE.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets 
>>>>>> for JSF.
>>>>>> Not
>>>>>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit 
>>>>>> less), but
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources 
>>>>>> for that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap 
>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a
>>>>>>> client-side
>>>>>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding 
>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS 
>>>>>>> framework which
>>>>>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more 
>>>>>>> changes in
>>>>>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like
>>>>>>> Bootstrap
>>>>>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this 
>>>>>>> framework.
>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of 
>>>>>>> mine
>>>>>>> obsolete:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen 
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) 
>>>>>>>> and make
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes 
>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>> target
>>>>>>>> library.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with
>>>>>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented 
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free 
>>>>>>> templates
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic
>>>>>>> theme,
>>>>>>> users can put their own themes on top of it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short
>>>>>>> amount
>>>>>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long
>>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do others think?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An 
>>>>>> alternative is
>>>>>> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> be possibly discussed.
>>>>>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level 
>>>>>> I'd say
>>>>>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from 
>>>>>> OFBiz at
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, 
>>>>>> even an
>>>>>> API
>>>>>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React 
>>>>>> (initially
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about 
>>>>>> Angular
>>>>>> 2! I
>>>>>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people
>>>>>> using
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with 
>>>>>> them...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] 
>>>>>>> https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Michael and all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to
>>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far 
>>>>>>>> in this
>>>>>>>> thread.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> James Yong
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl 
>>>>>>>> <mi...@ecomify.de>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thanks for the reminder.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I 
>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative 
>>>>>>>>> goes far
>>>>>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current 
>>>>>>>>> technological
>>>>>>>>> stack:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - new themes should be responsive
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like 
>>>>>>>>> Bootstrap and
>>>>>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser 
>>>>>>>>> compatibility
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure 
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>>>>>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are 
>>>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>>>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" 
>>>>>>>>> different UI
>>>>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen 
>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro 
>>>>>>>>> library) and
>>>>>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css 
>>>>>>>>> attributes
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> the target library.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>>>>>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some 
>>>>>>>>> concepts/design work
>>>>>>>>> beforehand
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not 
>>>>>>>>> a UX or
>>>>>>>>> web design expert)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure 
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI
>>>>>>>>> wise.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from 
>>>>>>>>>> Provolve and
>>>>>>>>>> Stannah.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it 
>>>>>>>>>> working)
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If 
>>>>>>>>>> it's only
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the 
>>>>>>>>>> trunk then
>>>>>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running 
>>>>>>>>>> quickly for
>>>>>>>>>> us.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to 
>>>>>>>>>>> share at
>>>>>>>>>>> the moment?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> improve
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> focused
>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ERP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
>>>>>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> give us
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
>>>>>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb 
>>>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
>>>>>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy 
>>>>>>>>>>>> DSL and
>>>>>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>]

That makes sense Taher and was already discussed and mostly agreed IIRW.

There is even a Jira for that https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5776

Jacques


Le 05/07/2017 à 13:40, Taher Alkhateeb a écrit :
> Hi Michael,
>
> My suggestion (other opinions might enrich the discussion) is to limit
> current work to moving actual web items (html, css, javascript, images and
> so on).
>
> Moving ftl might be too much work and perhaps widgets should stay where
> they are. What I suggest moving is things that live in the browser to the
> base/common theme.
>
> On Jul 5, 2017 11:50 AM, "Michael Brohl" <mi...@ecomify.de> wrote:
>
> Hi Taher,
>
> do I understand you correctly that you want to move all screen definitions
> and the ftl template files (containing the html) to a central component
> outside the framework/applications?
>
> Regards,
> Michael
>
> Am 04.07.17 um 23:50 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>
> Hi Michael,
>> I think we agree, just a difference in semantics. What I mean by web
>> is anything CSS, JavaScript, or HTML, not FreeMarker (for now). The
>> smaller the effort the bigger the chances to move this initiative
>> forward, so yeah I think we're on the same page.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 12:35 AM, Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Taher,
>>>
>>> I agree that all ressources like images, css etc. should be moved away in
>>> a
>>> foundation component. I am not sure if I can follow your suggestion to
>>> move
>>> everything web-related from the framework to another component. In my
>>> mind,
>>> the foundation for the UI development (Renderer, macro libraries,
>>> transformers etc.) should reside in the framework.
>>>
>>> I think it would be also a too big move to rewrite/move all this at once
>>> and
>>> has not enough visible impact for users to be highly prioritized.
>>>
>>> For me, a new and modern UI would be the highest priority at the moment. I
>>> hope that this will attract more contributors and more users to grow the
>>> community.
>>>
>>> After this, more restructuring and separation can be done.
>>>
>>> At ecomify, we are currently evaluating if we can set a team on it to
>>> implement a new UI. It will be a lot of work and a big effort for us but I
>>> think it's worth it. We'll see how this will work out and how we can
>>> contribute this back to the project.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Michael Brohl
>>> ecomify GmbH
>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>>
>>> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps
>>>> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get
>>>> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next
>>>> actions could be the following:
>>>>
>>>> - Create a base theme
>>>> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery,
>>>> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look
>>>> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme.
>>>> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in
>>>> the theme.
>>>> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme
>>>>
>>>> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do
>>>> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time
>>>> until we get some action first :)
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi James,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks for your suggestions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it
>>>>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we
>>>>>> want
>>>>>> to go so far.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF
>>>>>
>>>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-diff
>>>>> erence-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp
>>>>> and both are parts of JavaEE.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for JSF.
>>>>> Not
>>>>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), but
>>>>> the
>>>>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a
>>>>>> client-side
>>>>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding his
>>>>>> own
>>>>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework which
>>>>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in
>>>>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like
>>>>>> Bootstrap
>>>>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this framework.
>>>>>> That
>>>>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine
>>>>>> obsolete:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the
>>>>>>> target
>>>>>>> library.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with
>>>>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1]
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free templates
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic
>>>>>> theme,
>>>>>> users can put their own themes on top of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short
>>>>>> amount
>>>>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long
>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do others think?
>>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is
>>>>> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this
>>>>> could
>>>>> be possibly discussed.
>>>>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level I'd say
>>>>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz at
>>>>> other
>>>>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, even an
>>>>> API
>>>>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest...
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially
>>>>> from
>>>>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about Angular
>>>>> 2! I
>>>>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people
>>>>> using
>>>>> it
>>>>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with them...
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Michael and all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to
>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this
>>>>>>> thread.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> James Yong
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thanks for the reminder.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just
>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far
>>>>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological
>>>>>>>> stack:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - new themes should be responsive
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and
>>>>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and
>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>>>>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
>>>>>>>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and
>>>>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the target library.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>>>>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work
>>>>>>>> beforehand
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or
>>>>>>>> web design expert)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI
>>>>>>>> wise.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and
>>>>>>>>> Stannah.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working)
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then
>>>>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for
>>>>>>>>> us.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at
>>>>>>>>>> the moment?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to
>>>>>>>>>>>> improve
>>>>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some
>>>>>>>>>>>> focused
>>>>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
>>>>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us
>>>>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
>>>>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the
>>>>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
>>>>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and
>>>>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>]

Hi Michael,

My suggestion (other opinions might enrich the discussion) is to limit
current work to moving actual web items (html, css, javascript, images and
so on).

Moving ftl might be too much work and perhaps widgets should stay where
they are. What I suggest moving is things that live in the browser to the
base/common theme.

On Jul 5, 2017 11:50 AM, "Michael Brohl" <mi...@ecomify.de> wrote:

Hi Taher,

do I understand you correctly that you want to move all screen definitions
and the ftl template files (containing the html) to a central component
outside the framework/applications?

Regards,
Michael

Am 04.07.17 um 23:50 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:

Hi Michael,
>
> I think we agree, just a difference in semantics. What I mean by web
> is anything CSS, JavaScript, or HTML, not FreeMarker (for now). The
> smaller the effort the bigger the chances to move this initiative
> forward, so yeah I think we're on the same page.
>
> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 12:35 AM, Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Taher,
>>
>> I agree that all ressources like images, css etc. should be moved away in
>> a
>> foundation component. I am not sure if I can follow your suggestion to
>> move
>> everything web-related from the framework to another component. In my
>> mind,
>> the foundation for the UI development (Renderer, macro libraries,
>> transformers etc.) should reside in the framework.
>>
>> I think it would be also a too big move to rewrite/move all this at once
>> and
>> has not enough visible impact for users to be highly prioritized.
>>
>> For me, a new and modern UI would be the highest priority at the moment. I
>> hope that this will attract more contributors and more users to grow the
>> community.
>>
>> After this, more restructuring and separation can be done.
>>
>> At ecomify, we are currently evaluating if we can set a team on it to
>> implement a new UI. It will be a lot of work and a big effort for us but I
>> think it's worth it. We'll see how this will work out and how we can
>> contribute this back to the project.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Michael Brohl
>> ecomify GmbH
>> www.ecomify.de
>>
>>
>> Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>
>> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps
>>> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get
>>> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next
>>> actions could be the following:
>>>
>>> - Create a base theme
>>> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery,
>>> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look
>>> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme.
>>> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in
>>> the theme.
>>> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme
>>>
>>> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do
>>> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time
>>> until we get some action first :)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Hi James,
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks for your suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it
>>>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we
>>>>> want
>>>>> to go so far.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF
>>>>
>>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-diff
>>>> erence-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp
>>>> and both are parts of JavaEE.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for JSF.
>>>> Not
>>>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), but
>>>> the
>>>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for that.
>>>>
>>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and
>>>>> have
>>>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on the
>>>>> same
>>>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a
>>>>> client-side
>>>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding his
>>>>> own
>>>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework which
>>>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in
>>>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like
>>>>> Bootstrap
>>>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this framework.
>>>>> That
>>>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine
>>>>> obsolete:
>>>>>
>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the
>>>>>> target
>>>>>> library.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with
>>>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1]
>>>>> and
>>>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free templates
>>>>> out
>>>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic
>>>>> theme,
>>>>> users can put their own themes on top of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short
>>>>> amount
>>>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long
>>>>> project.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do others think?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is
>>>> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this
>>>> could
>>>> be possibly discussed.
>>>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level I'd say
>>>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz at
>>>> other
>>>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, even an
>>>> API
>>>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest...
>>>>
>>>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially
>>>> from
>>>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about Angular
>>>> 2! I
>>>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people
>>>> using
>>>> it
>>>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with them...
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Michael and all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to
>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this
>>>>>> thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> James Yong
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks for the reminder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just
>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far
>>>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological
>>>>>>> stack:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - new themes should be responsive
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and
>>>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and
>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>>>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
>>>>>>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and
>>>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the target library.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>>>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work
>>>>>>> beforehand
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or
>>>>>>> web design expert)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI
>>>>>>> wise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and
>>>>>>>> Stannah.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working)
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then
>>>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for
>>>>>>>> us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at
>>>>>>>>> the moment?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to
>>>>>>>>>>> improve
>>>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some
>>>>>>>>>>> focused
>>>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP.
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
>>>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us
>>>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
>>>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the
>>>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
>>>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and
>>>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>]

Hi Taher,

do I understand you correctly that you want to move all screen 
definitions and the ftl template files (containing the html) to a 
central component outside the framework/applications?

Regards,
Michael

Am 04.07.17 um 23:50 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> Hi Michael,
>
> I think we agree, just a difference in semantics. What I mean by web
> is anything CSS, JavaScript, or HTML, not FreeMarker (for now). The
> smaller the effort the bigger the chances to move this initiative
> forward, so yeah I think we're on the same page.
>
> On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 12:35 AM, Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de> wrote:
>> Hi Taher,
>>
>> I agree that all ressources like images, css etc. should be moved away in a
>> foundation component. I am not sure if I can follow your suggestion to move
>> everything web-related from the framework to another component. In my mind,
>> the foundation for the UI development (Renderer, macro libraries,
>> transformers etc.) should reside in the framework.
>>
>> I think it would be also a too big move to rewrite/move all this at once and
>> has not enough visible impact for users to be highly prioritized.
>>
>> For me, a new and modern UI would be the highest priority at the moment. I
>> hope that this will attract more contributors and more users to grow the
>> community.
>>
>> After this, more restructuring and separation can be done.
>>
>> At ecomify, we are currently evaluating if we can set a team on it to
>> implement a new UI. It will be a lot of work and a big effort for us but I
>> think it's worth it. We'll see how this will work out and how we can
>> contribute this back to the project.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Michael Brohl
>> ecomify GmbH
>> www.ecomify.de
>>
>>
>> Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>
>>> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps
>>> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get
>>> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next
>>> actions could be the following:
>>>
>>> - Create a base theme
>>> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery,
>>> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look
>>> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme.
>>> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in
>>> the theme.
>>> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme
>>>
>>> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do
>>> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time
>>> until we get some action first :)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>> Hi James,
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks for your suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it
>>>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we
>>>>> want
>>>>> to go so far.
>>>>
>>>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF
>>>>
>>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-difference-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp
>>>> and both are parts of JavaEE.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for JSF.
>>>> Not
>>>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), but
>>>> the
>>>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for that.
>>>>
>>>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and
>>>>> have
>>>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on the
>>>>> same
>>>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a
>>>>> client-side
>>>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding his own
>>>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework which
>>>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in
>>>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like
>>>>> Bootstrap
>>>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this framework.
>>>>> That
>>>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine
>>>>> obsolete:
>>>>>
>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the
>>>>>> target
>>>>>> library.
>>>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with
>>>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1] and
>>>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free templates out
>>>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic
>>>>> theme,
>>>>> users can put their own themes on top of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short
>>>>> amount
>>>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long
>>>>> project.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do others think?
>>>>
>>>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is
>>>> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this
>>>> could
>>>> be possibly discussed.
>>>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level I'd say
>>>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz at
>>>> other
>>>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, even an
>>>> API
>>>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest...
>>>>
>>>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially
>>>> from
>>>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about Angular
>>>> 2! I
>>>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people using
>>>> it
>>>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with them...
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
>>>>>> Hi Michael and all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to
>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this
>>>>>> thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> James Yong
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks for the reminder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just
>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far
>>>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological
>>>>>>> stack:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - new themes should be responsive
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and
>>>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and
>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>>>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
>>>>>>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and
>>>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the target library.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>>>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work
>>>>>>> beforehand
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or
>>>>>>> web design expert)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and
>>>>>>>> Stannah.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and
>>>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a
>>>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then
>>>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for
>>>>>>>> us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at
>>>>>>>>> the moment?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to
>>>>>>>>>>> improve
>>>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some
>>>>>>>>>>> focused
>>>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP.
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be
>>>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
>>>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us
>>>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
>>>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the
>>>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
>>>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and
>>>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>
>>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>]

Hi Michael,

I think we agree, just a difference in semantics. What I mean by web
is anything CSS, JavaScript, or HTML, not FreeMarker (for now). The
smaller the effort the bigger the chances to move this initiative
forward, so yeah I think we're on the same page.

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 12:35 AM, Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de> wrote:
> Hi Taher,
>
> I agree that all ressources like images, css etc. should be moved away in a
> foundation component. I am not sure if I can follow your suggestion to move
> everything web-related from the framework to another component. In my mind,
> the foundation for the UI development (Renderer, macro libraries,
> transformers etc.) should reside in the framework.
>
> I think it would be also a too big move to rewrite/move all this at once and
> has not enough visible impact for users to be highly prioritized.
>
> For me, a new and modern UI would be the highest priority at the moment. I
> hope that this will attract more contributors and more users to grow the
> community.
>
> After this, more restructuring and separation can be done.
>
> At ecomify, we are currently evaluating if we can set a team on it to
> implement a new UI. It will be a lot of work and a big effort for us but I
> think it's worth it. We'll see how this will work out and how we can
> contribute this back to the project.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Michael Brohl
> ecomify GmbH
> www.ecomify.de
>
>
> Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>
>> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps
>> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get
>> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next
>> actions could be the following:
>>
>> - Create a base theme
>> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery,
>> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look
>> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme.
>> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in
>> the theme.
>> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme
>>
>> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do
>> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time
>> until we get some action first :)
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> Hi James,
>>>>
>>>> thanks for your suggestions.
>>>>
>>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it
>>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we
>>>> want
>>>> to go so far.
>>>
>>>
>>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF
>>>
>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-difference-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp
>>> and both are parts of JavaEE.
>>>
>>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for JSF.
>>> Not
>>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), but
>>> the
>>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for that.
>>>
>>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and
>>>> have
>>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on the
>>>> same
>>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a
>>>> client-side
>>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding his own
>>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework which
>>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
>>>>
>>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in
>>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
>>>>
>>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like
>>>> Bootstrap
>>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this framework.
>>>> That
>>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine
>>>> obsolete:
>>>>
>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in
>>>>> an
>>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make
>>>>> it
>>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the
>>>>> target
>>>>> library.
>>>>
>>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with
>>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1] and
>>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free templates out
>>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic
>>>> theme,
>>>> users can put their own themes on top of it.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short
>>>> amount
>>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long
>>>> project.
>>>>
>>>> What do others think?
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is
>>> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this
>>> could
>>> be possibly discussed.
>>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level I'd say
>>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz at
>>> other
>>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, even an
>>> API
>>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest...
>>>
>>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially
>>> from
>>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about Angular
>>> 2! I
>>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people using
>>> it
>>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with them...
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Michael and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to
>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this
>>>>> thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> James Yong
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks for the reminder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just
>>>>>> want
>>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far
>>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological
>>>>>> stack:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - new themes should be responsive
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and
>>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
>>>>>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and
>>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the target library.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work
>>>>>> beforehand
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or
>>>>>> web design expert)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and
>>>>>>> Stannah.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and
>>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a
>>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then
>>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for
>>>>>>> us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at
>>>>>>>> the moment?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to
>>>>>>>>>> improve
>>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some
>>>>>>>>>> focused
>>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP.
>>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be
>>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
>>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us
>>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
>>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the
>>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
>>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and
>>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>]

Hi Taher,

I agree that all ressources like images, css etc. should be moved away 
in a foundation component. I am not sure if I can follow your suggestion 
to move everything web-related from the framework to another component. 
In my mind, the foundation for the UI development (Renderer, macro 
libraries, transformers etc.) should reside in the framework.

I think it would be also a too big move to rewrite/move all this at once 
and has not enough visible impact for users to be highly prioritized.

For me, a new and modern UI would be the highest priority at the moment. 
I hope that this will attract more contributors and more users to grow 
the community.

After this, more restructuring and separation can be done.

At ecomify, we are currently evaluating if we can set a team on it to 
implement a new UI. It will be a lot of work and a big effort for us but 
I think it's worth it. We'll see how this will work out and how we can 
contribute this back to the project.

Best regards,

Michael Brohl
ecomify GmbH
www.ecomify.de


Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps
> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get
> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next
> actions could be the following:
>
> - Create a base theme
> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery,
> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look
> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme.
> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in
> the theme.
> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme
>
> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do
> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time
> until we get some action first :)
>
> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux
> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>> Hi James,
>>>
>>> thanks for your suggestions.
>>>
>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it
>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we want
>>> to go so far.
>>
>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF
>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-difference-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp
>> and both are parts of JavaEE.
>>
>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for JSF. Not
>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), but the
>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for that.
>>
>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and have
>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on the same
>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a client-side
>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding his own
>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework which
>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
>>>
>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in
>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
>>>
>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like Bootstrap
>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this framework. That
>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine
>>> obsolete:
>>>
>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in an
>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make it
>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the target
>>>> library.
>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with
>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1] and
>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free templates out
>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic theme,
>>> users can put their own themes on top of it.
>>>
>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short amount
>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long project.
>>>
>>> What do others think?
>>
>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is
>> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this could
>> be possibly discussed.
>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level I'd say
>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz at other
>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, even an API
>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest...
>>
>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially from
>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about Angular 2! I
>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people using it
>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with them...
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Michael Brohl
>>> ecomify GmbH
>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>
>>> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
>>>> Hi Michael and all,
>>>>
>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to OFBiz
>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this
>>>> thread.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> James Yong
>>>>
>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks for the reminder.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just want
>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far
>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological
>>>>> stack:
>>>>>
>>>>> - new themes should be responsive
>>>>>
>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and
>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
>>>>>
>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and also
>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>>>>
>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
>>>>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>>>>
>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in
>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and
>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for
>>>>> the target library.
>>>>>
>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work
>>>>> beforehand
>>>>>
>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or
>>>>> web design expert)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that this
>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and
>>>>>> Stannah.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and
>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a
>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then
>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at
>>>>>>> the moment?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to improve
>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some focused
>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP.
>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be
>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us
>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the
>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and
>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Craig Parker <cr...@fossfolks.com>]

+1  It'd be way easier to create a template.


On 07/31/2017 01:25 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> I totally agree Deepak!
>
> Our problem is not that we are not using an UI framework or another.
>
> Our problem is that we are not consistently generating HTML because we 
> use too much Freemarker templates in the backend. IMO we should always 
> (OK as much as possible, but trying really hard) generate HTML with 
> form widgets.
>
> Using Freemarker templates in frontend (eg ecommerce) is another case 
> and we have different types of themes for this reason.
>
> If we consistently generate HTML using form widgets (I don't say that 
> that could not be improved too) then it's easier to use CSS on it and 
> choose an UI framework to apply on it.
>
> To summarise: consistent generated HTML is the key here
>
> Jacques
>
>
> Le 06/07/2017 à 07:49, Deepak Dixit a écrit :
>> IMO instead of thinking to support different UI framework we can 
>> define our
>> standard html and then write css based on it.
>>
>> If anyone want to plug different UI framework then user can create new
>> template file and and set it in widget.properties.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks & Regards
>> -- 
>> Deepak Dixit
>> www.hotwaxsystems.com
>> www.hotwax.co
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 1:48 AM, Michael Brohl<mi...@ecomify.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm currently twisting my had around the question of theme 
>>> compatibility.
>>>
>>> The current theme set and the html code (freemarker templates and 
>>> the code
>>> produced by forms and widgets) correspond with each other (naturally).
>>>
>>> So if we want to introduce a new CSS framework like Bootstrap, we will
>>> have to follow it's CSS reference and introduce it's CSS classes to the
>>> html and forms/widgets code. This will surely break the other themes.
>>>
>>> So we have to (1) either find a way to remain compatible with the old
>>> themes or (2) decide to break the old themes (and remove them).
>>>
>>> (1) would mean that we (I cite myself)
>>>
>>>> will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents 
>>> in an
>>> abstracted way (possibly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and 
>>> make it
>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the 
>>> target
>>> library.
>>>
>>> (2) would mean that we will have only one first theme for a time 
>>> (I'm sure
>>> that others will follow more quickly because of using a standard CSS
>>> framework)
>>>
>>>
>>> If I look at the Odoo approach [1], it seems that they are not 
>>> compatible
>>> with different frameworks but have their base template build mainly on
>>> Bootstrap and jQuery. I still think that maintaining an abstract 
>>> layer for
>>> different frameworks or "theme languages" is too much a burden for us.
>>>
>>> But will the community agree upon (2)?
>>>
>>> I might be wrong with my assumptions as I am not an expert (just
>>> interested in a much better UI) so I appreciate the community's 
>>> feedback on
>>> this.
>>>
>>> Thanks and best regards,
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> [1]https://www.odoo.com/documentation/10.0/howtos/themes.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>>
>>>> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps
>>>>
>>>> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get
>>>> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next
>>>> actions could be the following:
>>>>
>>>> - Create a base theme
>>>> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery,
>>>> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look
>>>> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme.
>>>> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in
>>>> the theme.
>>>> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme
>>>>
>>>> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do
>>>> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time
>>>> until we get some action first :)
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>>>> <ja...@les7arts.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi James,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks for your suggestions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies 
>>>>>> because it
>>>>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure 
>>>>>> if we
>>>>>> want
>>>>>> to go so far.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF
>>>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-diff
>>>>> erence-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp
>>>>> and both are parts of JavaEE.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets 
>>>>> for JSF.
>>>>> Not
>>>>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), 
>>>>> but
>>>>> the
>>>>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for 
>>>>> that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap 
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a
>>>>>> client-side
>>>>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding 
>>>>>> his own
>>>>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework 
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more 
>>>>>> changes in
>>>>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like
>>>>>> Bootstrap
>>>>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this framework.
>>>>>> That
>>>>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of 
>>>>>> mine
>>>>>> obsolete:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen 
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> in an
>>>>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) 
>>>>>>> and make
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> target
>>>>>>> library.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with
>>>>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented 
>>>>>> [1] and
>>>>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free 
>>>>>> templates out
>>>>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic
>>>>>> theme,
>>>>>> users can put their own themes on top of it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short
>>>>>> amount
>>>>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long
>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do others think?
>>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is
>>>>> Foundationhttps://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this
>>>>> could
>>>>> be possibly discussed.
>>>>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level 
>>>>> I'd say
>>>>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz at
>>>>> other
>>>>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, 
>>>>> even an
>>>>> API
>>>>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest...
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially
>>>>> from
>>>>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about 
>>>>> Angular
>>>>> 2! I
>>>>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people
>>>>> using it
>>>>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with 
>>>>> them...
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1]https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Michael and all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to
>>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in 
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> thread.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> James Yong
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael 
>>>>>>> Brohl<mi...@ecomify.de>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thanks for the reminder.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just
>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes 
>>>>>>>> far
>>>>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current 
>>>>>>>> technological
>>>>>>>> stack:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - new themes should be responsive
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like 
>>>>>>>> Bootstrap and
>>>>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser 
>>>>>>>> compatibility
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and
>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>>>>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
>>>>>>>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen 
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro 
>>>>>>>> library) and
>>>>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css 
>>>>>>>> attributes
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the target library.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>>>>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some 
>>>>>>>> concepts/design work
>>>>>>>> beforehand
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a 
>>>>>>>> UX or
>>>>>>>> web design expert)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure 
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, 
>>>>>>>> UI wise.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from 
>>>>>>>>> Provolve and
>>>>>>>>> Stannah.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it 
>>>>>>>>> working) and
>>>>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's 
>>>>>>>>> only a
>>>>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the 
>>>>>>>>> trunk then
>>>>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly 
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> us.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to 
>>>>>>>>>> share at
>>>>>>>>>> the moment?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to
>>>>>>>>>>>> improve
>>>>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some
>>>>>>>>>>>> focused
>>>>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern 
>>>>>>>>>>>> ERP.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers 
>>>>>>>>>>>> will be
>>>>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
>>>>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you 
>>>>>>>>>>>> give us
>>>>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
>>>>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb 
>>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
>>>>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL 
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>]

These are good news, Nicolas :-)

I started to review your efforts on common-theme but might not have 
digged deep enough to notice the separation layer (there are many 
changes already). I thought that it just moved the base theme and images 
stuff out of the framework.

I really appreciate your priority change and look forward to the new 
base for theming.

In the meantime I will start to do some prototyping for a new theme as a 
base for further discussion (a picture is worth a thousand words ;-) )

Kind regards,

Michael


Am 05.07.17 um 23:21 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
> Michael the separation layer between html/css/js lib and the model 
> screen is already done on the common-theme present on my github repo 
> (1) without break older theme.
>
> This it's the easier face on the problem, because the hidden face is 
> present with elements who use macro without ui rendering linked to a 
> theme like some content or pdf. I will follow your effort and raise 
> this task on the upper priority :)
>
> Cheers
>
> Nicolas
>
>
> (1) https://github.com/nmalin/ApacheOFBiz/tree/common-theme
> Le 05/07/2017 à 22:18, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>> I'm currently twisting my had around the question of theme 
>> compatibility.
>>
>> The current theme set and the html code (freemarker templates and the 
>> code produced by forms and widgets) correspond with each other 
>> (naturally).
>>
>> So if we want to introduce a new CSS framework like Bootstrap, we 
>> will have to follow it's CSS reference and introduce it's CSS classes 
>> to the html and forms/widgets code. This will surely break the other 
>> themes.
>>
>> So we have to (1) either find a way to remain compatible with the old 
>> themes or (2) decide to break the old themes (and remove them).
>>
>> (1) would mean that we (I cite myself)
>>
>> > will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI 
>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents 
>> in an abstracted way (possibly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) 
>> and make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css 
>> attributes for the target library.
>>
>> (2) would mean that we will have only one first theme for a time (I'm 
>> sure that others will follow more quickly because of using a standard 
>> CSS framework)
>>
>>
>> If I look at the Odoo approach [1], it seems that they are not 
>> compatible with different frameworks but have their base template 
>> build mainly on Bootstrap and jQuery. I still think that maintaining 
>> an abstract layer for different frameworks or "theme languages" is 
>> too much a burden for us.
>>
>> But will the community agree upon (2)?
>>
>> I might be wrong with my assumptions as I am not an expert (just 
>> interested in a much better UI) so I appreciate the community's 
>> feedback on this.
>>
>> Thanks and best regards,
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> [1] https://www.odoo.com/documentation/10.0/howtos/themes.html
>>
>>
>> Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps
>>> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get
>>> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next
>>> actions could be the following:
>>>
>>> - Create a base theme
>>> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery,
>>> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look
>>> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme.
>>> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in
>>> the theme.
>>> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme
>>>
>>> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do
>>> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time
>>> until we get some action first :)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>> Hi James,
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks for your suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies 
>>>>> because it
>>>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure 
>>>>> if we want
>>>>> to go so far.
>>>>
>>>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF
>>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-difference-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp 
>>>>
>>>> and both are parts of JavaEE.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for 
>>>> JSF. Not
>>>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), 
>>>> but the
>>>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for 
>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming 
>>>>> and have
>>>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap 
>>>>> on the same
>>>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a 
>>>>> client-side
>>>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding 
>>>>> his own
>>>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework 
>>>>> which
>>>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more 
>>>>> changes in
>>>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like 
>>>>> Bootstrap
>>>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this 
>>>>> framework. That
>>>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine
>>>>> obsolete:
>>>>>
>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen 
>>>>>> contents in an
>>>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and 
>>>>>> make it
>>>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for 
>>>>>> the target
>>>>>> library.
>>>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with
>>>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented 
>>>>> [1] and
>>>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free 
>>>>> templates out
>>>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one 
>>>>> basic theme,
>>>>> users can put their own themes on top of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative 
>>>>> short amount
>>>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long 
>>>>> project.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do others think?
>>>>
>>>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is
>>>> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, 
>>>> this could
>>>> be possibly discussed.
>>>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level 
>>>> I'd say
>>>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz 
>>>> at other
>>>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, 
>>>> even an API
>>>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest...
>>>>
>>>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React 
>>>> (initially from
>>>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about 
>>>> Angular 2! I
>>>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people 
>>>> using it
>>>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with 
>>>> them...
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
>>>>>> Hi Michael and all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar 
>>>>>> to OFBiz
>>>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in 
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> James Yong
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl 
>>>>>> <mi...@ecomify.de>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks for the reminder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I 
>>>>>>> just want
>>>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far
>>>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current 
>>>>>>> technological
>>>>>>> stack:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - new themes should be responsive
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like 
>>>>>>> Bootstrap and
>>>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure 
>>>>>>> and also
>>>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>>>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
>>>>>>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen 
>>>>>>> contents in
>>>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css 
>>>>>>> attributes for
>>>>>>> the target library.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>>>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design 
>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>> beforehand
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a 
>>>>>>> UX or
>>>>>>> web design expert)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure 
>>>>>>> that this
>>>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI 
>>>>>>> wise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from 
>>>>>>>> Provolve and
>>>>>>>> Stannah.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it 
>>>>>>>> working) and
>>>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's 
>>>>>>>> only a
>>>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk 
>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly 
>>>>>>>> for us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to 
>>>>>>>>> share at
>>>>>>>>> the moment?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to 
>>>>>>>>>>> improve
>>>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some 
>>>>>>>>>>> focused
>>>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP.
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers 
>>>>>>>>>>> will be
>>>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
>>>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you 
>>>>>>>>>>> give us
>>>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
>>>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb 
>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
>>>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and
>>>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Nicolas Malin <ni...@nereide.fr>]

Michael the separation layer between html/css/js lib and the model 
screen is already done on the common-theme present on my github repo (1) 
without break older theme.

This it's the easier face on the problem, because the hidden face is 
present with elements who use macro without ui rendering linked to a 
theme like some content or pdf. I will follow your effort and raise this 
task on the upper priority :)

Cheers

Nicolas


(1) https://github.com/nmalin/ApacheOFBiz/tree/common-theme
Le 05/07/2017 à 22:18, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> I'm currently twisting my had around the question of theme compatibility.
>
> The current theme set and the html code (freemarker templates and the 
> code produced by forms and widgets) correspond with each other 
> (naturally).
>
> So if we want to introduce a new CSS framework like Bootstrap, we will 
> have to follow it's CSS reference and introduce it's CSS classes to 
> the html and forms/widgets code. This will surely break the other themes.
>
> So we have to (1) either find a way to remain compatible with the old 
> themes or (2) decide to break the old themes (and remove them).
>
> (1) would mean that we (I cite myself)
>
> > will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI 
> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents 
> in an abstracted way (possibly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) 
> and make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css 
> attributes for the target library.
>
> (2) would mean that we will have only one first theme for a time (I'm 
> sure that others will follow more quickly because of using a standard 
> CSS framework)
>
>
> If I look at the Odoo approach [1], it seems that they are not 
> compatible with different frameworks but have their base template 
> build mainly on Bootstrap and jQuery. I still think that maintaining 
> an abstract layer for different frameworks or "theme languages" is too 
> much a burden for us.
>
> But will the community agree upon (2)?
>
> I might be wrong with my assumptions as I am not an expert (just 
> interested in a much better UI) so I appreciate the community's 
> feedback on this.
>
> Thanks and best regards,
>
> Michael
>
>
> [1] https://www.odoo.com/documentation/10.0/howtos/themes.html
>
>
> Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps
>> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get
>> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next
>> actions could be the following:
>>
>> - Create a base theme
>> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery,
>> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look
>> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme.
>> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in
>> the theme.
>> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme
>>
>> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do
>> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time
>> until we get some action first :)
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>> Hi James,
>>>>
>>>> thanks for your suggestions.
>>>>
>>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it
>>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure 
>>>> if we want
>>>> to go so far.
>>>
>>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF
>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-difference-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp 
>>>
>>> and both are parts of JavaEE.
>>>
>>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for 
>>> JSF. Not
>>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), 
>>> but the
>>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for 
>>> that.
>>>
>>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming 
>>>> and have
>>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on 
>>>> the same
>>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a 
>>>> client-side
>>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding 
>>>> his own
>>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework 
>>>> which
>>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
>>>>
>>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in
>>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
>>>>
>>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like 
>>>> Bootstrap
>>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this 
>>>> framework. That
>>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine
>>>> obsolete:
>>>>
>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen 
>>>>> contents in an
>>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and 
>>>>> make it
>>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for 
>>>>> the target
>>>>> library.
>>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with
>>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented 
>>>> [1] and
>>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free 
>>>> templates out
>>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic 
>>>> theme,
>>>> users can put their own themes on top of it.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short 
>>>> amount
>>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long 
>>>> project.
>>>>
>>>> What do others think?
>>>
>>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is
>>> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this 
>>> could
>>> be possibly discussed.
>>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level I'd 
>>> say
>>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz 
>>> at other
>>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, even 
>>> an API
>>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest...
>>>
>>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React 
>>> (initially from
>>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about 
>>> Angular 2! I
>>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people 
>>> using it
>>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with 
>>> them...
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
>>>>> Hi Michael and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to 
>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this
>>>>> thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> James Yong
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks for the reminder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I 
>>>>>> just want
>>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far
>>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current 
>>>>>> technological
>>>>>> stack:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - new themes should be responsive
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure 
>>>>>> and also
>>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
>>>>>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen 
>>>>>> contents in
>>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and
>>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css 
>>>>>> attributes for
>>>>>> the target library.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design 
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> beforehand
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a 
>>>>>> UX or
>>>>>> web design expert)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure 
>>>>>> that this
>>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI 
>>>>>> wise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Stannah.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it 
>>>>>>> working) and
>>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's 
>>>>>>> only a
>>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk 
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly 
>>>>>>> for us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at
>>>>>>>> the moment?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to 
>>>>>>>>>> improve
>>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some 
>>>>>>>>>> focused
>>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP.
>>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers 
>>>>>>>>>> will be
>>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
>>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you 
>>>>>>>>>> give us
>>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
>>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
>>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and
>>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>]

I totally agree Deepak!

Our problem is not that we are not using an UI framework or another.

Our problem is that we are not consistently generating HTML because we use too much Freemarker templates in the backend. IMO we should always (OK as 
much as possible, but trying really hard) generate HTML with form widgets.

Using Freemarker templates in frontend (eg ecommerce) is another case and we have different types of themes for this reason.

If we consistently generate HTML using form widgets (I don't say that that could not be improved too) then it's easier to use CSS on it and choose an 
UI framework to apply on it.

To summarise: consistent generated HTML is the key here

Jacques


Le 06/07/2017 à 07:49, Deepak Dixit a écrit :
> IMO instead of thinking to support different UI framework we can define our
> standard html and then write css based on it.
>
> If anyone want to plug different UI framework then user can create new
> template file and and set it in widget.properties.
>
>
>
> Thanks & Regards
> --
> Deepak Dixit
> www.hotwaxsystems.com
> www.hotwax.co
>
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 1:48 AM, Michael Brohl<mi...@ecomify.de>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm currently twisting my had around the question of theme compatibility.
>>
>> The current theme set and the html code (freemarker templates and the code
>> produced by forms and widgets) correspond with each other (naturally).
>>
>> So if we want to introduce a new CSS framework like Bootstrap, we will
>> have to follow it's CSS reference and introduce it's CSS classes to the
>> html and forms/widgets code. This will surely break the other themes.
>>
>> So we have to (1) either find a way to remain compatible with the old
>> themes or (2) decide to break the old themes (and remove them).
>>
>> (1) would mean that we (I cite myself)
>>
>>> will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in an
>> abstracted way (possibly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make it
>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the target
>> library.
>>
>> (2) would mean that we will have only one first theme for a time (I'm sure
>> that others will follow more quickly because of using a standard CSS
>> framework)
>>
>>
>> If I look at the Odoo approach [1], it seems that they are not compatible
>> with different frameworks but have their base template build mainly on
>> Bootstrap and jQuery. I still think that maintaining an abstract layer for
>> different frameworks or "theme languages" is too much a burden for us.
>>
>> But will the community agree upon (2)?
>>
>> I might be wrong with my assumptions as I am not an expert (just
>> interested in a much better UI) so I appreciate the community's feedback on
>> this.
>>
>> Thanks and best regards,
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> [1]https://www.odoo.com/documentation/10.0/howtos/themes.html
>>
>>
>> Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>
>>> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps
>>>
>>> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get
>>> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next
>>> actions could be the following:
>>>
>>> - Create a base theme
>>> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery,
>>> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look
>>> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme.
>>> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in
>>> the theme.
>>> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme
>>>
>>> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do
>>> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time
>>> until we get some action first :)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>>> <ja...@les7arts.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Hi James,
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks for your suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it
>>>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we
>>>>> want
>>>>> to go so far.
>>>>>
>>>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF
>>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-diff
>>>> erence-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp
>>>> and both are parts of JavaEE.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for JSF.
>>>> Not
>>>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), but
>>>> the
>>>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for that.
>>>>
>>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and
>>>>> have
>>>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on the
>>>>> same
>>>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a
>>>>> client-side
>>>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding his own
>>>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework which
>>>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in
>>>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like
>>>>> Bootstrap
>>>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this framework.
>>>>> That
>>>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine
>>>>> obsolete:
>>>>>
>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents
>>>>>> in an
>>>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the
>>>>>> target
>>>>>> library.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with
>>>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1] and
>>>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free templates out
>>>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic
>>>>> theme,
>>>>> users can put their own themes on top of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short
>>>>> amount
>>>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long
>>>>> project.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do others think?
>>>>>
>>>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is
>>>> Foundationhttps://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this
>>>> could
>>>> be possibly discussed.
>>>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level I'd say
>>>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz at
>>>> other
>>>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, even an
>>>> API
>>>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest...
>>>>
>>>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially
>>>> from
>>>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about Angular
>>>> 2! I
>>>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people
>>>> using it
>>>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with them...
>>>>
>>>> Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Michael and all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to
>>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this
>>>>>> thread.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> James Yong
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl<mi...@ecomify.de>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks for the reminder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just
>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far
>>>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological
>>>>>>> stack:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - new themes should be responsive
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and
>>>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and
>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>>>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
>>>>>>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and
>>>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the target library.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>>>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work
>>>>>>> beforehand
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or
>>>>>>> web design expert)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and
>>>>>>>> Stannah.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and
>>>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a
>>>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then
>>>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for
>>>>>>>> us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at
>>>>>>>>> the moment?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to
>>>>>>>>>>> improve
>>>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some
>>>>>>>>>>> focused
>>>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP.
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be
>>>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
>>>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us
>>>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
>>>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the
>>>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
>>>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and
>>>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Deepak Dixit <de...@hotwaxsystems.com>]

IMO instead of thinking to support different UI framework we can define our
standard html and then write css based on it.

If anyone want to plug different UI framework then user can create new
template file and and set it in widget.properties.



Thanks & Regards
--
Deepak Dixit
www.hotwaxsystems.com
www.hotwax.co

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 1:48 AM, Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>
wrote:

> I'm currently twisting my had around the question of theme compatibility.
>
> The current theme set and the html code (freemarker templates and the code
> produced by forms and widgets) correspond with each other (naturally).
>
> So if we want to introduce a new CSS framework like Bootstrap, we will
> have to follow it's CSS reference and introduce it's CSS classes to the
> html and forms/widgets code. This will surely break the other themes.
>
> So we have to (1) either find a way to remain compatible with the old
> themes or (2) decide to break the old themes (and remove them).
>
> (1) would mean that we (I cite myself)
>
> > will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in an
> abstracted way (possibly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make it
> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the target
> library.
>
> (2) would mean that we will have only one first theme for a time (I'm sure
> that others will follow more quickly because of using a standard CSS
> framework)
>
>
> If I look at the Odoo approach [1], it seems that they are not compatible
> with different frameworks but have their base template build mainly on
> Bootstrap and jQuery. I still think that maintaining an abstract layer for
> different frameworks or "theme languages" is too much a burden for us.
>
> But will the community agree upon (2)?
>
> I might be wrong with my assumptions as I am not an expert (just
> interested in a much better UI) so I appreciate the community's feedback on
> this.
>
> Thanks and best regards,
>
> Michael
>
>
> [1] https://www.odoo.com/documentation/10.0/howtos/themes.html
>
>
> Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>
>> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps
>>
>> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get
>> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next
>> actions could be the following:
>>
>> - Create a base theme
>> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery,
>> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look
>> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme.
>> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in
>> the theme.
>> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme
>>
>> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do
>> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time
>> until we get some action first :)
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Hi James,
>>>>
>>>> thanks for your suggestions.
>>>>
>>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it
>>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we
>>>> want
>>>> to go so far.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF
>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-diff
>>> erence-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp
>>> and both are parts of JavaEE.
>>>
>>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for JSF.
>>> Not
>>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), but
>>> the
>>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for that.
>>>
>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and
>>>> have
>>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on the
>>>> same
>>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a
>>>> client-side
>>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding his own
>>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework which
>>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
>>>>
>>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in
>>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
>>>>
>>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like
>>>> Bootstrap
>>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this framework.
>>>> That
>>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine
>>>> obsolete:
>>>>
>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents
>>>>> in an
>>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make
>>>>> it
>>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the
>>>>> target
>>>>> library.
>>>>>
>>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with
>>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1] and
>>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free templates out
>>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic
>>>> theme,
>>>> users can put their own themes on top of it.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short
>>>> amount
>>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long
>>>> project.
>>>>
>>>> What do others think?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is
>>> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this
>>> could
>>> be possibly discussed.
>>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level I'd say
>>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz at
>>> other
>>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, even an
>>> API
>>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest...
>>>
>>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially
>>> from
>>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about Angular
>>> 2! I
>>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people
>>> using it
>>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with them...
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Michael and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to
>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this
>>>>> thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> James Yong
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks for the reminder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just
>>>>>> want
>>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far
>>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological
>>>>>> stack:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - new themes should be responsive
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and
>>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
>>>>>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and
>>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the target library.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work
>>>>>> beforehand
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or
>>>>>> web design expert)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and
>>>>>>> Stannah.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and
>>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a
>>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then
>>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for
>>>>>>> us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at
>>>>>>>> the moment?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to
>>>>>>>>>> improve
>>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some
>>>>>>>>>> focused
>>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP.
>>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be
>>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
>>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us
>>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
>>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the
>>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
>>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and
>>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>]

I'm currently twisting my had around the question of theme compatibility.

The current theme set and the html code (freemarker templates and the 
code produced by forms and widgets) correspond with each other (naturally).

So if we want to introduce a new CSS framework like Bootstrap, we will 
have to follow it's CSS reference and introduce it's CSS classes to the 
html and forms/widgets code. This will surely break the other themes.

So we have to (1) either find a way to remain compatible with the old 
themes or (2) decide to break the old themes (and remove them).

(1) would mean that we (I cite myself)

 > will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI 
frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in 
an abstracted way (possibly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and 
make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for 
the target library.

(2) would mean that we will have only one first theme for a time (I'm 
sure that others will follow more quickly because of using a standard 
CSS framework)


If I look at the Odoo approach [1], it seems that they are not 
compatible with different frameworks but have their base template build 
mainly on Bootstrap and jQuery. I still think that maintaining an 
abstract layer for different frameworks or "theme languages" is too much 
a burden for us.

But will the community agree upon (2)?

I might be wrong with my assumptions as I am not an expert (just 
interested in a much better UI) so I appreciate the community's feedback 
on this.

Thanks and best regards,

Michael


[1] https://www.odoo.com/documentation/10.0/howtos/themes.html


Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps
> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get
> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next
> actions could be the following:
>
> - Create a base theme
> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery,
> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look
> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme.
> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in
> the theme.
> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme
>
> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do
> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time
> until we get some action first :)
>
> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux
> <ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>> Hi James,
>>>
>>> thanks for your suggestions.
>>>
>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it
>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we want
>>> to go so far.
>>
>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF
>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-difference-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp
>> and both are parts of JavaEE.
>>
>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for JSF. Not
>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), but the
>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for that.
>>
>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and have
>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on the same
>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a client-side
>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding his own
>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework which
>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
>>>
>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in
>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
>>>
>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like Bootstrap
>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this framework. That
>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine
>>> obsolete:
>>>
>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in an
>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make it
>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the target
>>>> library.
>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with
>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1] and
>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free templates out
>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic theme,
>>> users can put their own themes on top of it.
>>>
>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short amount
>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long project.
>>>
>>> What do others think?
>>
>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is
>> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this could
>> be possibly discussed.
>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level I'd say
>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz at other
>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, even an API
>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest...
>>
>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially from
>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about Angular 2! I
>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people using it
>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with them...
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Michael Brohl
>>> ecomify GmbH
>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>
>>> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
>>>> Hi Michael and all,
>>>>
>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to OFBiz
>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this
>>>> thread.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> James Yong
>>>>
>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks for the reminder.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just want
>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far
>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological
>>>>> stack:
>>>>>
>>>>> - new themes should be responsive
>>>>>
>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and
>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
>>>>>
>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and also
>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>>>>
>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
>>>>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>>>>
>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in
>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and
>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for
>>>>> the target library.
>>>>>
>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work
>>>>> beforehand
>>>>>
>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or
>>>>> web design expert)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that this
>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and
>>>>>> Stannah.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and
>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a
>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then
>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at
>>>>>>> the moment?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to improve
>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some focused
>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP.
>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be
>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us
>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the
>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and
>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Taher Alkhateeb <sl...@gmail.com>]

I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps
just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get
results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next
actions could be the following:

- Create a base theme
- Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery,
bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look
for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme.
Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in
the theme.
- Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme

Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do
next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time
until we get some action first :)

On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux
<ja...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>
>> Hi James,
>>
>> thanks for your suggestions.
>>
>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it
>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we want
>> to go so far.
>
>
> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-difference-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp
> and both are parts of JavaEE.
>
> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for JSF. Not
> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), but the
> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for that.
>
>>
>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and have
>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on the same
>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a client-side
>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding his own
>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework which
>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
>>
>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in
>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
>>
>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like Bootstrap
>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this framework. That
>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine
>> obsolete:
>>
>> > - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>> > frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in an
>> > abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make it
>> > possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the target
>> > library.
>>
>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with
>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1] and
>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free templates out
>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic theme,
>> users can put their own themes on top of it.
>>
>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short amount
>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long project.
>>
>> What do others think?
>
>
> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is
> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this could
> be possibly discussed.
> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level I'd say
> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz at other
> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, even an API
> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest...
>
> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially from
> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about Angular 2! I
> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people using it
> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with them...
>
> Jacques
>
>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Michael Brohl
>> ecomify GmbH
>> www.ecomify.de
>>
>> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
>>
>>
>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
>>>
>>> Hi Michael and all,
>>>
>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to OFBiz
>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this
>>> thread.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> James Yong
>>>
>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>>
>>>> thanks for the reminder.
>>>>
>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just want
>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far
>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological
>>>> stack:
>>>>
>>>> - new themes should be responsive
>>>>
>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and
>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
>>>>
>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and also
>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>>>
>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
>>>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>>>
>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in
>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and
>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for
>>>> the target library.
>>>>
>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work
>>>> beforehand
>>>>
>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or
>>>> web design expert)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that this
>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>
>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and
>>>>> Stannah.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and
>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a
>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then
>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for us.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>
>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at
>>>>>> the moment?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to improve
>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some focused
>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP.
>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be
>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us
>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the
>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and
>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>]

Le 04/07/2017 à 17:31, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially from FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about Angular 
> 2! I also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people using it with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with 
> them...
This https://hackernoon.com/the-javascript-phenomenon-is-a-mass-psychosis-57adebb09359

Jacques

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>]

Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> Hi James,
>
> thanks for your suggestions.
>
> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we want 
> to go so far.

Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-difference-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp and 
both are parts of JavaEE.

I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for JSF. Not that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), but 
the work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for that.

>
> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and have to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on the 
> same level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a client-side JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding 
> his own model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework which provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
>
> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
>
> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like Bootstrap and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this framework. That 
> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine obsolete:
>
> > - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in an 
> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the 
> target library.
>
> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1] and there are 
> a lot of really good looking and functional free templates out there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic theme, users can 
> put their own themes on top of it.
>
> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short amount of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long project.
>
> What do others think?

I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this could be 
possibly discussed.
That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level I'd say (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz at other 
technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, even an API of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest...

I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially from FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about Angular 2! 
I also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people using it with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with them...

Jacques

>
> Best regards,
>
> Michael Brohl
> ecomify GmbH
> www.ecomify.de
>
> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
>
>
> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
>> Hi Michael and all,
>>
>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to OFBiz Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this thread.
>>
>> Regards,
>> James Yong
>>
>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de> wrote:
>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>
>>> thanks for the reminder.
>>>
>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just want
>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far
>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological stack:
>>>
>>> - new themes should be responsive
>>>
>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and
>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
>>>
>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and also
>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>>
>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
>>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>>
>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in
>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and
>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for
>>> the target library.
>>>
>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work
>>> beforehand
>>>
>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or
>>> web design expert)
>>>
>>>
>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that this
>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise.
>>>
>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>
>>> Michael Brohl
>>> ecomify GmbH
>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>> Hi All
>>>>
>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and
>>>> Stannah.
>>>>
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>>
>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and
>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a
>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then
>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for us.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Sharan
>>>>
>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>>
>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at
>>>>> the moment?
>>>>>
>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to improve
>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some focused
>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP.
>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be
>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
>>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us
>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the
>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and
>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[James Yong <ja...@apache.org>]

Hi all,

For those who wanted to evaluate JSF further, I have done a simple POC with patch available at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-9469.

Best Regards,
James Yong

On 2017/07/05 15:03:49, "James Yong"<ja...@apache.org> wrote: 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> I agreed it will be going too far if we adopt JSF.
> Maybe better value to spend on improving what OFBiz already have.
> 
> Regards,
> James Yong
> 
> On 2017/07/04 14:57:33, Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de> wrote: 
> > Hi James,
> > 
> > thanks for your suggestions.
> > 
> > As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it 
> > relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we 
> > want to go so far.
> > 
> > I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and 
> > have to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on 
> > the same level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is 
> > a client-side JavaScript framework to build single page applications, 
> > icluding his own model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS 
> > framework which provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
> > 
> > I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in 
> > OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
> > 
> > So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like 
> > Bootstrap and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this 
> > framework. That would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this 
> > statement of mine obsolete:
> > 
> >  > - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI 
> > frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in 
> > an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and 
> > make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for 
> > the target library.
> > 
> > It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with 
> > different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1] and 
> > there are a lot of really good looking and functional free templates out 
> > there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic 
> > theme, users can put their own themes on top of it.
> > 
> > Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short 
> > amount of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a 
> > year-long project.
> > 
> > What do others think?
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > 
> > Michael Brohl
> > ecomify GmbH
> > www.ecomify.de
> > 
> > [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
> > 
> > 
> > Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
> > > Hi Michael and all,
> > >
> > > We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to OFBiz Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this thread.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > James Yong
> > >
> > > On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de> wrote:
> > >> Hi Sharan,
> > >>
> > >> thanks for the reminder.
> > >>
> > >> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just want
> > >> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far
> > >> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological stack:
> > >>
> > >> - new themes should be responsive
> > >>
> > >> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and
> > >> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
> > >>
> > >> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and also
> > >> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
> > >>
> > >> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
> > >> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
> > >> together or how the screens get their data.
> > >>
> > >> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
> > >> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in
> > >> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and
> > >> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for
> > >> the target library.
> > >>
> > >> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
> > >> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work
> > >> beforehand
> > >>
> > >> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or
> > >> web design expert)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that this
> > >> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks and regards,
> > >>
> > >> Michael Brohl
> > >> ecomify GmbH
> > >> www.ecomify.de
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
> > >>> Hi All
> > >>>
> > >>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and
> > >>> Stannah.
> > >>>
> > >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
> > >>>
> > >>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and
> > >>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a
> > >>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then
> > >>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for us.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks
> > >>> Sharan
> > >>>
> > >>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
> > >>>> Thanks Nicolas,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at
> > >>>> the moment?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Michael Brohl
> > >>>> ecomify GmbH
> > >>>> www.ecomify.de
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
> > >>>>> Hi Michael
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> > >>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to improve
> > >>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some focused
> > >>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP.
> > >>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be
> > >>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
> > >>>>>> development of OFBiz.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us
> > >>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
> > >>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
> > >>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
> > >>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the
> > >>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
> > >>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
> > >>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and
> > >>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Nicolas
> > >>>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[James Yong <ja...@apache.org>]

Hi Michael,

I agreed it will be going too far if we adopt JSF.
Maybe better value to spend on improving what OFBiz already have.

Regards,
James Yong

On 2017/07/04 14:57:33, Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de> wrote: 
> Hi James,
> 
> thanks for your suggestions.
> 
> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it 
> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we 
> want to go so far.
> 
> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and 
> have to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on 
> the same level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is 
> a client-side JavaScript framework to build single page applications, 
> icluding his own model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS 
> framework which provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
> 
> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in 
> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
> 
> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like 
> Bootstrap and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this 
> framework. That would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this 
> statement of mine obsolete:
> 
>  > - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI 
> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in 
> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and 
> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for 
> the target library.
> 
> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with 
> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1] and 
> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free templates out 
> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic 
> theme, users can put their own themes on top of it.
> 
> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short 
> amount of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a 
> year-long project.
> 
> What do others think?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Michael Brohl
> ecomify GmbH
> www.ecomify.de
> 
> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
> 
> 
> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
> > Hi Michael and all,
> >
> > We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to OFBiz Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this thread.
> >
> > Regards,
> > James Yong
> >
> > On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de> wrote:
> >> Hi Sharan,
> >>
> >> thanks for the reminder.
> >>
> >> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just want
> >> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far
> >> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological stack:
> >>
> >> - new themes should be responsive
> >>
> >> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and
> >> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
> >>
> >> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and also
> >> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
> >>
> >> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
> >> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
> >> together or how the screens get their data.
> >>
> >> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
> >> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in
> >> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and
> >> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for
> >> the target library.
> >>
> >> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
> >> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work
> >> beforehand
> >>
> >> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or
> >> web design expert)
> >>
> >>
> >> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that this
> >> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise.
> >>
> >> Thanks and regards,
> >>
> >> Michael Brohl
> >> ecomify GmbH
> >> www.ecomify.de
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
> >>> Hi All
> >>>
> >>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and
> >>> Stannah.
> >>>
> >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
> >>>
> >>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and
> >>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a
> >>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then
> >>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for us.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Sharan
> >>>
> >>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
> >>>> Thanks Nicolas,
> >>>>
> >>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at
> >>>> the moment?
> >>>>
> >>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> Michael Brohl
> >>>> ecomify GmbH
> >>>> www.ecomify.de
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
> >>>>> Hi Michael
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> >>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to improve
> >>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some focused
> >>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP.
> >>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be
> >>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
> >>>>>> development of OFBiz.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us
> >>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
> >>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
> >>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
> >>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the
> >>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
> >>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
> >>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and
> >>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nicolas
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> 
> 
> 

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>]

Hi James,

thanks for your suggestions.

As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it 
relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we 
want to go so far.

I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and 
have to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on 
the same level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is 
a client-side JavaScript framework to build single page applications, 
icluding his own model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS 
framework which provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.

I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in 
OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.

So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like 
Bootstrap and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this 
framework. That would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this 
statement of mine obsolete:

 > - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI 
frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in 
an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and 
make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for 
the target library.

It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with 
different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1] and 
there are a lot of really good looking and functional free templates out 
there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic 
theme, users can put their own themes on top of it.

Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short 
amount of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a 
year-long project.

What do others think?

Best regards,

Michael Brohl
ecomify GmbH
www.ecomify.de

[1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp


Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
> Hi Michael and all,
>
> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to OFBiz Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this thread.
>
> Regards,
> James Yong
>
> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de> wrote:
>> Hi Sharan,
>>
>> thanks for the reminder.
>>
>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just want
>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far
>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological stack:
>>
>> - new themes should be responsive
>>
>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and
>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
>>
>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and also
>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>
>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>
>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in
>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and
>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for
>> the target library.
>>
>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work
>> beforehand
>>
>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or
>> web design expert)
>>
>>
>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that this
>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise.
>>
>> Thanks and regards,
>>
>> Michael Brohl
>> ecomify GmbH
>> www.ecomify.de
>>
>>
>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>> Hi All
>>>
>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and
>>> Stannah.
>>>
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>
>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and
>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a
>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then
>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for us.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Sharan
>>>
>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>
>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at
>>>> the moment?
>>>>
>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to improve
>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some focused
>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP.
>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be
>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further
>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us
>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as
>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the
>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy
>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and
>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>
>>
>>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[James Yong <ja...@apache.org>]

Hi Michael and all,

We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to OFBiz Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this thread.

Regards,
James Yong 

On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de> wrote: 
> Hi Sharan,
> 
> thanks for the reminder.
> 
> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just want 
> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far 
> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological stack:
> 
> - new themes should be responsive
> 
> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and 
> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
> 
> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and also 
> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
> 
> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and 
> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put 
> together or how the screens get their data.
> 
> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI 
> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in 
> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and 
> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for 
> the target library.
> 
> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less 
> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work 
> beforehand
> 
> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or 
> web design expert)
> 
> 
> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that this 
> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise.
> 
> Thanks and regards,
> 
> Michael Brohl
> ecomify GmbH
> www.ecomify.de
> 
> 
> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
> > Hi All
> >
> > Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and 
> > Stannah.
> >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
> >
> > This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and 
> > have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a 
> > case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then 
> > this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for us.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Sharan
> >
> > On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
> >> Thanks Nicolas,
> >>
> >> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at 
> >> the moment?
> >>
> >> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Michael Brohl
> >> ecomify GmbH
> >> www.ecomify.de
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
> >>> Hi Michael
> >>>
> >>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> >>>> Hi Julien, all,
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to improve 
> >>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some focused 
> >>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP. 
> >>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be 
> >>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further 
> >>>> development of OFBiz.
> >>>>
> >>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us 
> >>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
> >>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information 
> >>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as 
> >>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the 
> >>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
> >>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy 
> >>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and 
> >>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
> >>>
> >>> Nicolas
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> 
> 

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>]

Hi Sharan,

thanks for the reminder.

It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just want 
to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far 
beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological stack:

- new themes should be responsive

- we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and 
AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility

- it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and also 
easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this

- developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and 
webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put 
together or how the screens get their data.

- we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI 
frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in 
an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and 
make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for 
the target library.

- a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less 
cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work 
beforehand

- there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or 
web design expert)


I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that this 
will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise.

Thanks and regards,

Michael Brohl
ecomify GmbH
www.ecomify.de


Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
> Hi All
>
> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and 
> Stannah.
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>
> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and 
> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a 
> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then 
> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for us.
>
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>
>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at 
>> the moment?
>>
>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Michael Brohl
>> ecomify GmbH
>> www.ecomify.de
>>
>>
>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>> Hi Michael
>>>
>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to improve 
>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some focused 
>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP. 
>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be 
>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further 
>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>
>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us 
>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information 
>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as 
>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the 
>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy 
>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and 
>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>
>>> Nicolas
>>
>>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Sharan Foga <sh...@gmail.com>]

Hi All

Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and 
Stannah.

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985

This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and 
have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a 
case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then 
this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for us.

Thanks
Sharan

On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
> Thanks Nicolas,
>
> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at the 
> moment?
>
> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael Brohl
> ecomify GmbH
> www.ecomify.de
>
>
> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>> Hi Michael
>>
>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>
>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to improve 
>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some focused 
>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP. 
>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be 
>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further 
>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>
>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us an 
>>> update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information 
>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as 
>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the 
>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy 
>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and 
>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>
>> Nicolas
>
>

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Michael Brohl <mi...@ecomify.de>]

Thanks Nicolas,

is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at the 
moment?

This way other could chime in and help moving further.

Thanks,

Michael Brohl
ecomify GmbH
www.ecomify.de


Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
> Hi Michael
>
> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>> Hi Julien, all,
>>
>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to improve 
>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some focused 
>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP. Also, 
>> if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be 
>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further 
>> development of OFBiz.
>>
>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us an 
>> update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information 
> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as referent 
> on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the framework 
> separation and the git-svn link break.
> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy 
> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and after 
> I continue the work on commont-theme.
>
> Nicolas

Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface

[Nicolas Malin <ni...@nereide.fr>]

Hi Michael

Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> Hi Julien, all,
>
> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to improve 
> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some focused 
> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP. Also, 
> if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be attracted 
> which will be a win for the community and further development of OFBiz.
>
> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us an 
> update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand?
Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information 
propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as referent 
on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the framework 
separation and the git-svn link break.
Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy mini-lang 
conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and after I continue 
the work on commont-theme.

Nicolas