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Posted to modperl@perl.apache.org by Stephen Adkins <st...@officevision.com> on 2001/10/23 18:21:01 UTC
[OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at
eToys
At 11:27 PM 10/23/2001 +0800, Gunther Birznieks wrote:
>At 09:45 PM 10/23/2001, Perrin Harkins wrote:
>>Matt Sergeant wrote:
>>>OK, so what are we missing?
...
>>Based on the comments I've seen here over the years, and some on Slashdot,
>>the thing that seems to worry people the most is the lack of an obvious
>>message queue API in Perl. I've seen plenty of implementations, but there
>>isn't a plug-n-play CPAN module for this. Perhaps a port of JMS is in order.
...
>I really would like to see a generally endorsed P2EE project which includes
>SOAP::Lite as an interoperable webservices engine, a messaging engine, and
>transaction engine. Authentication engine and Session engine would be quite
>useful to include as well. Oh and Moseley's (sp?) servlets in Perl project
>would be a cool one to include as well. That would make it compete pretty
>much head to head with J2EE.
Hi,
This issue of a P2EE specification has come up before
(and I participated in the discussion), but since it is off-topic for
the mod_perl list, I would appreciate some referrals of where to go to
discuss this.
Last time this came up, I was referred to three different mailing lists
(also, see http://lists.perl.org/). However, none of the lists
were interested in the P2EE problem (including the PerlSDK list).
If no one suggests an appropriate list, I propose starting a "p2ee" group
on SourceForge. This gives us mailing lists and a CVS repository for the
artifacts of the effort (which will mostly be specifications and
documentation, with maybe some Bundle files). I would also submit the
list information to "perl.org" for inclusion in the list of lists.
Stephen
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl
at eToys
Posted by Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com>.
Stephen Adkins writes:
> That would be great (as long as perl.org can host the CVS too).
> My concern was that perl.org might not be as specialized in hosting
> development teams as sourceforge.net. Do you support "viewcvs"
> or similar for web browsing of the CVS repository?
cvsweb. You can see what we've got at cvs.perl.org. I'll ask Ask to
add the list and repository. Cheers;
Nat
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl
at eToys
Posted by Stephen Adkins <st...@officevision.com>.
Nathan,
At 11:06 AM 10/23/2001 -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote:
>Stephen Adkins writes:
>> If no one suggests an appropriate list, I propose starting a "p2ee" group
>> on SourceForge. This gives us mailing lists and a CVS repository for the
>> artifacts of the effort (which will mostly be specifications and
>> documentation, with maybe some Bundle files). I would also submit the
>> list information to "perl.org" for inclusion in the list of lists.
>
>We'd be glad to host it at perl.org. If that's cool with you, I'll
>ask Ask to create the mailing list and CVS repository on perl.org.
>Once we have something to show, we can get a website too.
>
>I'd imagine the CVS would include code we write, snapshots of which
>would be periodically released to CPAN. Anyway, that's for the list
>once we have it.
>
>Nat
That would be great (as long as perl.org can host the CVS too).
My concern was that perl.org might not be as specialized in hosting
development teams as sourceforge.net. Do you support "viewcvs"
or similar for web browsing of the CVS repository?
Stephen
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl
at eToys
Posted by Gunther Birznieks <gu...@extropia.com>.
At 03:38 AM 10/24/2001, Stephen Adkins wrote:
>At 02:28 PM 10/23/2001 -0400, Perrin Harkins wrote:
> >Stephen Adkins wrote:
> >
> >> If no one suggests an appropriate list, I propose starting a "p2ee" group
> >
> >
> >Can I just say that P2EE is a horrible, horrible name? It includes the
> >Java version number (when is J3EE coming out?), as well as Sun's
> >desperate attempt to make it sound like something you buy ("Edition")
> >rather than simply a collection of APIs.
> >
> >Something simple, like Perl Enterprise Project or Perl Enterprise APIs
> >makes more sense to me.
>
>Hi,
>
>Several of you have made the same good point.
>And now the naming flame war has already begun... ;-)
>
>Unless there is violent opposition, the name will be
>
> Perl Enterprise Framework
>
>I would rather name it after the outcome (Framework)
>than the process (Project).
>
>The mailing list will be
>
> perl-enterprise@perl.org (preferred)
>or
> pef@perl.org (in case Nathan already has it set up)
>
>If this seems reasonable, let's not flood the list with "ok with me"
>messages or "how about 'foo'?" messages.
>
>Stephen
I think this name and mailing list is excellent and much better than P2EE.
The mere fact that there is an endorsed perl.org mailing list for people
who wish to ask about enterprise issues (even without a specific standard)
is a huge step further in terms of making people aware that Perl CAN BE
used for the enterprise.
That is, there is a definite perception difference between
something@sourceforge.com and something@perl.org. Something@perl.org has a
perception of being endorsed as a place for a standard rather than just a
single couple of people's ideas on sourceforge.com (of which there are
thousands) and is likely to get more attention.
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
Posted by David Kaufman <dk...@nac.net>.
"Robert Landrum" <rl...@capitoladvantage.com> wrote:
> ... A name is pretty important
> and if it's acronym isn't easily recognized, it isn't going to gain
> the support of developers. J2EE is catchy, so we need something
> catchy. PEF isn't nearly as catchy as P2EE or P5EE or PEA (Perl
> Enterprise API), but maybe I'm just crazy.
howsabout: p5ice ?
Perl 5 Integrated Classes for the Enterprise
or mebbe: Interface Client for Enterprises
possibly: Insane Community of Entrepeneurs
or even: Icky Commercialized Edition
i can already see all the cool "Ice-ey" perl logos with icicles hanging from
their frosted fonts :-)
-dave
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl
at eToys
Posted by Robert Landrum <rl...@capitoladvantage.com>.
At 3:38 PM -0400 10/23/01, Stephen Adkins wrote:
>Several of you have made the same good point.
>And now the naming flame war has already begun... ;-)
This is a discussion. Something has been proposed and it needs a
name. I'd hardly call this a flame war. A name is pretty important
and if it's acronym isn't easily recognized, it isn't going to gain
the support of developers. J2EE is catchy, so we need something
catchy. PEF isn't nearly as catchy as P2EE or P5EE or PEA (Perl
Enterprise API), but maybe I'm just crazy.
Rob
--
"Only two things are infinite: The universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not
sure about the former." --Albert Einstein
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl
at eToys
Posted by Stephen Adkins <st...@officevision.com>.
At 02:28 PM 10/23/2001 -0400, Perrin Harkins wrote:
>Stephen Adkins wrote:
>
>> If no one suggests an appropriate list, I propose starting a "p2ee" group
>
>
>Can I just say that P2EE is a horrible, horrible name? It includes the
>Java version number (when is J3EE coming out?), as well as Sun's
>desperate attempt to make it sound like something you buy ("Edition")
>rather than simply a collection of APIs.
>
>Something simple, like Perl Enterprise Project or Perl Enterprise APIs
>makes more sense to me.
Hi,
Several of you have made the same good point.
And now the naming flame war has already begun... ;-)
Unless there is violent opposition, the name will be
Perl Enterprise Framework
I would rather name it after the outcome (Framework)
than the process (Project).
The mailing list will be
perl-enterprise@perl.org (preferred)
or
pef@perl.org (in case Nathan already has it set up)
If this seems reasonable, let's not flood the list with "ok with me"
messages or "how about 'foo'?" messages.
Stephen
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
Posted by Perrin Harkins <pe...@elem.com>.
Stephen Adkins wrote:
> If no one suggests an appropriate list, I propose starting a "p2ee" group
Can I just say that P2EE is a horrible, horrible name? It includes the
Java version number (when is J3EE coming out?), as well as Sun's
desperate attempt to make it sound like something you buy ("Edition")
rather than simply a collection of APIs.
Something simple, like Perl Enterprise Project or Perl Enterprise APIs
makes more sense to me.
- Perrin
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at
eToys
Posted by Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com>.
Stephen Adkins writes:
> If no one suggests an appropriate list, I propose starting a "p2ee" group
> on SourceForge. This gives us mailing lists and a CVS repository for the
> artifacts of the effort (which will mostly be specifications and
> documentation, with maybe some Bundle files). I would also submit the
> list information to "perl.org" for inclusion in the list of lists.
We'd be glad to host it at perl.org. If that's cool with you, I'll
ask Ask to create the mailing list and CVS repository on perl.org.
Once we have something to show, we can get a website too.
I'd imagine the CVS would include code we write, snapshots of which
would be periodically released to CPAN. Anyway, that's for the list
once we have it.
Nat
Re: [OT] P2EE Redux was: Excellent article on Apache/mod_perl at eToys
Posted by Robin Berjon <ro...@knowscape.com>.
On Tuesday 23 October 2001 18:21, Stephen Adkins wrote:
> This issue of a P2EE specification has come up before
> (and I participated in the discussion), but since it is off-topic for
> the mod_perl list, I would appreciate some referrals of where to go to
> discuss this.
>
> If no one suggests an appropriate list, I propose starting a "p2ee" group
> on SourceForge. This gives us mailing lists and a CVS repository for the
> artifacts of the effort (which will mostly be specifications and
> documentation, with maybe some Bundle files). I would also submit the
> list information to "perl.org" for inclusion in the list of lists.
FWIW, (given the fact that we're talking about talking about it, I guess it's
the moment for more-or-less useless ideas) I'd prefer it not to be called
p2ee. It sounds more like a copy thing, and copies aren't good. What about
EnterPerl or something like that ?
In any case, please create the specific list before we start discussing the
name here ;-)
--
_______________________________________________________________________
Robin Berjon <ro...@knowscape.com> -- CTO
k n o w s c a p e : // venture knowledge agency www.knowscape.com
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Prediction is very difficult, especially of the future.
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