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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by "Hyrum K. Wright" <hy...@mail.utexas.edu> on 2007/03/09 18:43:54 UTC

Subversion 1.5

To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!

As many of you know, significant development effort is going into
implementing merge tracking as a part of Subversion.  This work is going
well, but there is a concern among some of the developers that it has
been too long since our last release and that we should not delay the
Subversion 1.5 release while we wrap up this feature.

There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready to go
into the next Subversion release.  These include:
 * Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
 * Copy/move improvements (Peg revision support, support 'svn mv file1
   file2; svn mv file2 file3', support 'svn cp *.c dir')
 * Dav mirroring
 * Cancellation improvements
 * JavaHL improvements
 * Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
   anticipated to be merged soon.)
 * Changelist support
 * Various bugfixes

Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, would
like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months with
features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 1.5
now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.

Thanks,
The Subversion Development Team


Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Bernd Glueckert <be...@ot-soft.de>.
Hyrum K. Wright wrote:
> Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, would
> like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months with
> features plus merge tracking?   
I suggest to release the 1.5 now. The additional overhead will be
compensated, because an early debugging of a few changes is more easy
than to debug a lot of changes at the same time.

You know: Release early - release often!
-- 

So long

Bernd



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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Kenichi Nakamura <kn...@tripwire.com>.
I second this.  For us, the benefits of merge-tracking outweigh those  
of any other feature on the list.

---
Kenichi Nakamura | SCM
TRIPWIRE | The Leader in Configuration Audit & Control


On Mar 9, 2007, at 12:17 PM, Justin Johnson wrote:

> Merge tracking is a critical feature my company with many large apps
> needing to manage 3+ concurrent releases with aggressive schedules.
> I'd vote for anything that would get this to us sooner.
>


Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Justin Johnson <ju...@gmail.com>.
On 3/9/07, Hyrum K. Wright <hy...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!
>
> As many of you know, significant development effort is going into
> implementing merge tracking as a part of Subversion.  This work is going
> well, but there is a concern among some of the developers that it has
> been too long since our last release and that we should not delay the
> Subversion 1.5 release while we wrap up this feature.
>
> There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready to go
> into the next Subversion release.  These include:
>  * Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
>  * Copy/move improvements (Peg revision support, support 'svn mv file1
>    file2; svn mv file2 file3', support 'svn cp *.c dir')
>  * Dav mirroring
>  * Cancellation improvements
>  * JavaHL improvements
>  * Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
>    anticipated to be merged soon.)
>  * Changelist support
>  * Various bugfixes
>
> Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, would
> like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months with
> features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
> slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 1.5
> now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.
>
> Thanks,
> The Subversion Development Team

Merge tracking is a critical feature my company with many large apps
needing to manage 3+ concurrent releases with aggressive schedules.
I'd vote for anything that would get this to us sooner.

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RE: Subversion 1.5

Posted by "Johnson, Rick" <Jo...@gc.adventist.org>.
+1 to wait for merge tracking.

-----Original Message-----
From: Hyrum K. Wright [mailto:hyrum_wright@mail.utexas.edu] 
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 1:44 PM
To: users@subversion.tigris.org
Subject: Subversion 1.5

To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!

As many of you know, significant development effort is going into
implementing merge tracking as a part of Subversion.  This work is going
well, but there is a concern among some of the developers that it has
been too long since our last release and that we should not delay the
Subversion 1.5 release while we wrap up this feature.

There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready to go
into the next Subversion release.  These include:
 * Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
 * Copy/move improvements (Peg revision support, support 'svn mv file1
   file2; svn mv file2 file3', support 'svn cp *.c dir')
 * Dav mirroring
 * Cancellation improvements
 * JavaHL improvements
 * Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
   anticipated to be merged soon.)
 * Changelist support
 * Various bugfixes

Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, would
like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months with
features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 1.5
now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.

Thanks,
The Subversion Development Team

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by si <ss...@gmail.com>.
Hi Vanessa,

>   My important interest for a new release is the possibility to deny
> permission in a specific directory, even if you gave 'r' or 'rw' up in
> the structure. But I don't know if this break the svn phillosophy.

I believe this is already possible in Subversion.

For example, we use svnserve as repository access method,
and here is part of our authz file which gives developers and
management read-write access to all parts of our standards
repository except /trunk/Integration, where we only give read-
write access to our integration specialist.

[standards:/]
@Developers = rw
@Management = rw
* =

[standards:/trunk/Integration]
Di = rw
@Developers = r
@Management = r
* =

peace
si

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Vanessa Romano Sobrino <va...@dicampus.com>.
Hello:

  My important interest for a new release is the possibility to deny
permission in a specific directory, even if you gave 'r' or 'rw' up in
the structure. But I don't know if this break the svn phillosophy.

  I have no special interest in the release date, I mean, I don't care to
wait a little more for 1.5, or for 1.6...

  Congratulations anyway for svn.

Vanessa

> To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!
>
> As many of you know, significant development effort is going into
> implementing merge tracking as a part of Subversion.  This work is going
> well, but there is a concern among some of the developers that it has
> been too long since our last release and that we should not delay the
> Subversion 1.5 release while we wrap up this feature.
>
> There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready to go
> into the next Subversion release.  These include:
>  * Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
>  * Copy/move improvements (Peg revision support, support 'svn mv file1
>    file2; svn mv file2 file3', support 'svn cp *.c dir')
>  * Dav mirroring
>  * Cancellation improvements
>  * JavaHL improvements
>  * Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
>    anticipated to be merged soon.)
>  * Changelist support
>  * Various bugfixes
>
> Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, would
> like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months with
> features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
> slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 1.5
> now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.
>
> Thanks,
> The Subversion Development Team
>
>

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Tom Mornini <tm...@infomania.com>.
On Mar 9, 2007, at 1:43 PM, Hyrum K. Wright wrote:

> To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!
>
> As many of you know, significant development effort is going into
> implementing merge tracking as a part of Subversion.  This work is  
> going
> well, but there is a concern among some of the developers that it has
> been too long since our last release and that we should not delay the
> Subversion 1.5 release while we wrap up this feature.

While I don't care a whit about the other functions, and cannot wait for
merge tracking, there's never been a better motto, IMHO, than "Release
early, release often."

If you push the complete features now, people who need them will have
them, and the features will be six months ahead of schedule in terms of
maturity by the time you release the merge tracking features, due to
bug reports and patches...

-- 
-- Tom Mornini, CTO
-- Engine Yard, Ruby on Rails Hosting
-- Reliability, Ease of Use, Scalability
-- (866) 518-YARD (9273)

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Vincent Lefevre <vi...@vinc17.org>.
+1 1.5 now (I'm personnally not really interested in merge tracking).

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre <vi...@vinc17.org> - Web: <http://www.vinc17.org/>
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: <http://www.vinc17.org/blog/>
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / Arenaire project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Jamie A Lawrence <ja...@clueinc.net>.
>> To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!
>>
>> As many of you know, significant development effort is going into
>> implementing merge tracking as a part of Subversion.  This work is  
>> going
>> well, but there is a concern among some of the developers that it has
>> been too long since our last release and that we should not delay the
>> Subversion 1.5 release while we wrap up this feature.
>>
>> There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready  
>> to go
>> into the next Subversion release.  These include:
>>  * Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
>>  * Copy/move improvements (Peg revision support, support 'svn mv  
>> file1
>>    file2; svn mv file2 file3', support 'svn cp *.c dir')
>>  * Dav mirroring
>>  * Cancellation improvements
>>  * JavaHL improvements
>>  * Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
>>    anticipated to be merged soon.)
>>  * Changelist support
>>  * Various bugfixes


Just another data point: Merge tracking would help my particular  
situation a lot.

That said, if the process overhead of pushing other features out  
first isn't too great, I don't see much reason to sit on unrelated  
features. Copy/move improvements would be nice - it would save me a  
fair amount of silly one-off script writing. Sparse directories are  
intriguing, but I realize that won't be available until clients catch  
up. An bugfixes are always good.

Most of the rest doesn't impact me directly, but I'm not the only  
consumer, so  I have no real comment there.

(Off topic, but are there any reasonable SASL management tools out  
there? I use it for mail and wouldn't mind using it more widely, but  
handling changes is a major PITA using saslauthdb2 and related, and  
it just turns in to yet another parallel authentication mechanism  
that confuses end users.)

-j

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Erik Huelsmann <eh...@gmail.com>.
On 3/9/07, Hyrum K. Wright <hy...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!
>
> As many of you know, significant development effort is going into
> implementing merge tracking as a part of Subversion.  This work is going
> well, but there is a concern among some of the developers that it has
> been too long since our last release and that we should not delay the
> Subversion 1.5 release while we wrap up this feature.
>
> There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready to go
> into the next Subversion release.  These include:
>  * Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
>  * Copy/move improvements (Peg revision support, support 'svn mv file1
>    file2; svn mv file2 file3', support 'svn cp *.c dir')
>  * Dav mirroring
>  * Cancellation improvements
>  * JavaHL improvements
>  * Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
>    anticipated to be merged soon.)
>  * Changelist support
>  * Various bugfixes

Last weekend 'use file size as indicator for file change' was added to
this list. I think knowing that may mean a different vote for some.

bye,

Erik.

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Chris Seawood <cl...@seawood.org>.
Hyrum K. Wright wrote:
> Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, would
> like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months with
> features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
> slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 1.5
> now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.

As much as we could really use merge tracking, +1 for releasing 1.5
now(-ish).  Waiting an additional 3 months for merge tracking isn't
going to break us at this point.  Plus, it will give the other features
time to bake.

- cls

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Bobby McNulty <sn...@bellsouth.net>.
Hyrum K. Wright wrote:
> To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!
>
> As many of you know, significant development effort is going into
> implementing merge tracking as a part of Subversion.  This work is going
> well, but there is a concern among some of the developers that it has
> been too long since our last release and that we should not delay the
> Subversion 1.5 release while we wrap up this feature.
>
> There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready to go
> into the next Subversion release.  These include:
>  * Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
>  * Copy/move improvements (Peg revision support, support 'svn mv file1
>    file2; svn mv file2 file3', support 'svn cp *.c dir')
>  * Dav mirroring
>  * Cancellation improvements
>  * JavaHL improvements
>  * Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
>    anticipated to be merged soon.)
>  * Changelist support
>  * Various bugfixes
>
> Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, would
> like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months with
> features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
> slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 1.5
> now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.
>
> Thanks,
> The Subversion Development Team
>
>   
+1 now, if it can work on cygwin or Mandriva Linux with apr 1.2.7, 
apr-util 1.2.7, and neon 2.63.2
Bobby.
(PS I love subversion. Greatest version control system for the price (free)


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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Ralph Seichter <su...@seichter.de>.
Hyrum K. Wright wrote:

> there's never been a better motto, IMHO, than "Release early, release
> often."

My sentiments exactly. The Bugfixes alone would be worth a release, as
far as I am concerned, and if you additionally make some new features
available now instead of many new features in six months time, I'm all
for an early release.

-R

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Eric Lemes <er...@gmail.com>.
If you keep the quality of the releases, I don't worry about 1.5 with these
features now and wait more for merge-tracking.

I think if you release the 1.5 now, you'll have less impact for the users
when releasing the future 1.6.


Eric Lemes


On 3/9/07, Hyrum K. Wright <hy...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>
> To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!
>
> As many of you know, significant development effort is going into
> implementing merge tracking as a part of Subversion.  This work is going
> well, but there is a concern among some of the developers that it has
> been too long since our last release and that we should not delay the
> Subversion 1.5 release while we wrap up this feature.
>
> There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready to go
> into the next Subversion release.  These include:
> * Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
> * Copy/move improvements (Peg revision support, support 'svn mv file1
>   file2; svn mv file2 file3', support 'svn cp *.c dir')
> * Dav mirroring
> * Cancellation improvements
> * JavaHL improvements
> * Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
>   anticipated to be merged soon.)
> * Changelist support
> * Various bugfixes
>
> Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, would
> like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months with
> features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
> slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 1.5
> now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.
>
> Thanks,
> The Subversion Development Team
>
>
>

Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Steinar Bang <sb...@dod.no>.
>>>>> "Hyrum K. Wright" <hy...@mail.utexas.edu>:

>  * Copy/move improvements (Peg revision support, support 'svn mv file1
>    file2; svn mv file2 file3', support 'svn cp *.c dir')
>  * Dav mirroring

These two I would like to see.

>  * Changelist support

I have some colleagues who think this is an essential
feature. (personally I've never seem what's the big deal).

But I'm mainly waiting for merge tracking.

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Peter Münster <pm...@deltadore.com>.
On Fri, 9 Mar 2007, Hyrum K. Wright wrote:

> There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready to go
> into the next Subversion release.  These include:
>  * Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
>  * Copy/move improvements (Peg revision support, support 'svn mv file1
>    file2; svn mv file2 file3', support 'svn cp *.c dir')
>  * Dav mirroring
>  * Cancellation improvements
>  * JavaHL improvements
>  * Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
>    anticipated to be merged soon.)
>  * Changelist support
>  * Various bugfixes

Hello,
is there also the feature "svn:externals with relative paths"
(bug-id 1336)?
If yes, I vote for 1.5 ASAP.
Thanks for your efforts, Peter

-- 
http://pmrb.free.fr/contact-DD/

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Vineet Kumar <vi...@doorstop.net>.
+1 for an early 1.5 release without merge tracking.  svnmerge.py does
what I need for now, and some developers on my team have been asking
about changelists for a while now.

-- 
http://www.doorstop.net/
-- 
"If you can put it on a T-shirt, it's speech... To enjoin the T-shirts as a
circumvention device is ludicrous."	--Robin Gross, EFF staff attorney

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Johnathan Gifford <jg...@wernervas.com>.
+1 for release ASAP.  My employer is clamoring for the DAV mirroring functionality for all of our international offices that have developers located abroad.

Johnathan

>>> 
From: "Hyrum K. Wright" <hy...@mail.utexas.edu>
To:<us...@subversion.tigris.org>
Date: 03/09/07 12:44 PM
Subject: Subversion 1.5
To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!

As many of you know, significant development effort is going into
implementing merge tracking as a part of Subversion.  This work is going
well, but there is a concern among some of the developers that it has
been too long since our last release and that we should not delay the
Subversion 1.5 release while we wrap up this feature.

There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready to go
into the next Subversion release.  These include:
* Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
* Copy/move improvements (Peg revision support, support 'svn mv file1
   file2; svn mv file2 file3', support 'svn cp *.c dir')
* Dav mirroring
* Cancellation improvements
* JavaHL improvements
* Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
   anticipated to be merged soon.)
* Changelist support
* Various bugfixes

Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, would
like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months with
features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 1.5
now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.

Thanks,
The Subversion Development Team



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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Flavio Stanchina <fl...@stanchina.net>.
Bob Hiestand wrote:
> On 3/9/07, Hyrum K. Wright <hy...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> 
>> To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!
> 
> [...]
> 
> I vote for early 1.5 release.  Bug fixes are more important than
> feature enhancements, even one as necessary as merge tracking.

+1 for early 1.5: apart from the bug fixes, Dav mirroring is going to help
us a lot with our remote developers.

If at all possible, please also consider issue 2634 (Add wildcard matching
to 'svndumpfilter') for inclusion.
http://subversion.tigris.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=2634

-- 
Ciao, Flavio

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Bob Hiestand <bo...@gmail.com>.
On 3/9/07, Hyrum K. Wright <hy...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:

> To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!

[...]

> Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, would
> like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months with
> features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
> slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 1.5
> now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.

I vote for early 1.5 release.  Bug fixes are more important than
feature enhancements, even one as necessary as merge tracking.

Thank you,

Bob

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Nathan Kidd <na...@spicycrypto.ca>.
Hyrum K. Wright wrote:
> There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready to go
> into the next Subversion release.  These include:
>  * Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
>  * Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
>    anticipated to be merged soon.)

In our setup we'd really like the features above.  Our existing merge 
process is functional so the merge tracking feature is not something 
we're chomping at the bit for.

> Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, would
> like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months with
> features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
> slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 1.5
> now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.

+1 1.5 now.

-Nathan

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com>.
On 3/9/07, Tjernstrom, Staffan <st...@mail.esignal.com> wrote:
>
> I'd like to disagree with what appears the majority (vocal) opinion, in
> that we'd far rather not have to deal with an update this close in on v1.4
> .
>
> I know that we have the choice of whether to take the upgrade or not, but
> given various tool's predilection for telling clients to upgrade to the
> latest / most unstable I'd rather the server upgrade was held in abayence.


I do not think this release would be very disruptive in terms of mixing 1.4and
1.5.  Certainly nothing like the WC format change that happened in 1.4.  In
addition, of the listed features, I think the only one that would require
having a 1.5 server and 1.5 clients would be to use the SASL support in
svnserve.  Most of these features are just improvements in the client and
will work with any server.


-- 
Thanks

Mark Phippard
http://markphip.blogspot.com/

RE: Subversion 1.5

Posted by "Tjernstrom, Staffan" <st...@mail.esignal.com>.
I'd like to disagree with what appears the majority (vocal) opinion, in that we'd far rather not have to deal with an update this close in on v1.4.

I know that we have the choice of whether to take the upgrade or not, but given various tool's predilection for telling clients to upgrade to the latest / most unstable I'd rather the server upgrade was held in abayence.

Rgds 
Staffan Tj. 
Staffan Tjernström | Sr. Programmer - Market Data Systems | www.esignal.com
eSignal, Interactive Data Desktop Solutions (NYSE: IDC)
3955 Point Eden Way | Hayward, CA 94545-3720 | 510.723.1723 | FAX: 510.266.6100
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Hyrum K. Wright [mailto:hyrum_wright@mail.utexas.edu] 
Sent: Friday, 09 March, 2007 10:44
To: users@subversion.tigris.org
Subject: Subversion 1.5

To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!

As many of you know, significant development effort is going into
implementing merge tracking as a part of Subversion.  This work is going
well, but there is a concern among some of the developers that it has
been too long since our last release and that we should not delay the
Subversion 1.5 release while we wrap up this feature.

There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready to go
into the next Subversion release.  These include:
 * Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
 * Copy/move improvements (Peg revision support, support 'svn mv file1
   file2; svn mv file2 file3', support 'svn cp *.c dir')
 * Dav mirroring
 * Cancellation improvements
 * JavaHL improvements
 * Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
   anticipated to be merged soon.)
 * Changelist support
 * Various bugfixes

Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, would
like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months with
features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 1.5
now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.

Thanks,
The Subversion Development Team



DISCLAIMER: This message (including any files transmitted with it) may contain confidential and / or proprietary information, is the property of Interactive Data Corporation and / or its subsidiaries and is directed only to the addressee(s). If you are not the designated recipient or have reason to believe you received this message in error, please delete this message from your system and notify the sender immediately. An unintended recipient's disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this message, or any attachments, is prohibited and may be unlawful.

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Matthew Hannigan <ml...@zip.com.au>.
Of these features, I only care for merge tracking.
So I'd go for a 1.5 delay.
OTOH, svnmerge.py is fine for the moment.

Matt Hannigan

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Brice Dardel <bd...@plexsci.com>.
+1 for merge tracking here also even if it delays 1.5

That will save us a lot of time and headaches with all our feature and
release branches.  Also, there is some overhead in our development shop to
install each release of subversion, so we'd be happier lowering the overhead
and getting new awesome features earlier.


-----Original Message-----
From: Leon Oosterwijk [mailto:leono@daveramsey.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 10:04 AM
To: users@subversion.tigris.org
Subject: RE: Re: Subversion 1.5


> -----Original Message-----
> > Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, 
> > would like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 
> 1.5 in 6 months with
> > features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
> > slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 
> > 1.5 now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.

I vote for merge tracking ASAP. However that works out, if 1.5 needs to
be pushed back that's fine with me. 

Thanks!

Leon

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RE: RE: Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Mike Craig <Mi...@freeclear.com>.
I agree with Merge Tracking! If this isn't implemented soon we'll be
purchasing something that does, we really need this.

Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: Leon Oosterwijk [mailto:leono@daveramsey.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 7:04 AM
To: users@subversion.tigris.org
Subject: RE: Re: Subversion 1.5


> -----Original Message-----
> > Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, 
> > would like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 
> 1.5 in 6 months with
> > features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
> > slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 
> > 1.5 now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.

I vote for merge tracking ASAP. However that works out, if 1.5 needs to
be pushed back that's fine with me. 

Thanks!

Leon

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RE: Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Leon Oosterwijk <le...@daveramsey.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> > Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, 
> > would like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 
> 1.5 in 6 months with
> > features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
> > slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 
> > 1.5 now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.

I vote for merge tracking ASAP. However that works out, if 1.5 needs to
be pushed back that's fine with me. 

Thanks!

Leon

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Kylo Ginsberg <ky...@gmail.com>.
One vote for 1.5 now.

On 3/9/07, Hyrum K. Wright <hy...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!
>
> As many of you know, significant development effort is going into
> implementing merge tracking as a part of Subversion.  This work is going
> well, but there is a concern among some of the developers that it has
> been too long since our last release and that we should not delay the
> Subversion 1.5 release while we wrap up this feature.
>
> There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready to go
> into the next Subversion release.  These include:
>  * Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
>  * Copy/move improvements (Peg revision support, support 'svn mv file1
>    file2; svn mv file2 file3', support 'svn cp *.c dir')
>  * Dav mirroring
>  * Cancellation improvements
>  * JavaHL improvements
>  * Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
>    anticipated to be merged soon.)
>  * Changelist support
>  * Various bugfixes
>
> Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, would
> like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months with
> features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
> slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 1.5
> now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.
>
> Thanks,
> The Subversion Development Team
>
>
>

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RE: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Tom Malia <to...@ttdsinc.com>.
On the issue of 3rd parties implementing a front end for the feature, I
could be wrong, but I would think that releasing the support for the feature
in an actual version release would actually provide more motivation for the
developers of the client side utilities to start implementing and seriously
testing the client support for that particular feature.  If I was developing
such client utilities, I'd probably put any features not currently supported
by the release version of the server product lower in my priority list than
those that are currently supported in the server.

So, early release of the feature, I would think would probably drive earlier
support for that feature on the client side.

I'd be interested to hear what those folks that actually do develop client
utilities think about this assertion.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Seawood [mailto:cls@seawood.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 10:20 AM
To: Mark Phippard
Cc: Roy Franz; Wesley J. Landaker; users@subversion.tigris.org; Hyrum K.
Wright
Subject: Re: Subversion 1.5

Mark Phippard wrote:
> On 3/9/07, *Roy Franz* <roy.lists@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     On 3/9/07, Mark Phippard <markphip@gmail.com
>     <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>     > On 3/9/07, Wesley J. Landaker <wjl@icecavern.net
>     <ma...@icecavern.net>> wrote:
>     > > 1.5 would be *well* worth it just for SASL and sparse directory
>     support
>     > > IMHO. Merge tracking will be an excellent improvment, but I'm
>     much less
>     > > interested in getting that quickly. =)
>     >
>     > Everyone should understand the sparse directories are mainly going
>     to be
>     > included at the API level.  I do not think there is going to be
>     any command
>     > line level UI to create them (in the proposed timeframe).  In
theory,
>     > various GUI tools or other consumers of the API could do something
>     with them
>     > though.
>     >
>     > I think if some UI did create a working copy that used this
>     feature, command
>     > line options like update should respect them.
> 
> 
>     This is rather disappointing, since if there is no user interface to
>     make use of this feature then it is mostly useless to the end user.
>     If only APIs are provided then the
>     feature is only of academic interest.
> 
> 
> The UI issues are complicated and have not even been started.  So we can
> either not release the feature until the UI is ready, or release the API
> now and let TortoiseSVN, Subclipse etc.. have the option of building
> their UI's that use the feature today.  That has the added benefit of
> getting the feature used earlier.

If the UI issues are as complicated as you say, wouldn't it take the 3rd
party GUI tools just as long, if not longer, to implement a frontend for
the API?  It seems that there'd be a non-zero chance that you'd need to
tweak the API when addressing problems that arise when implementing such
a complicated UI.  And presumably, tweaking the API would mean that
you'd have to rev a now released API, which seems like something you'd
want to avoid if possible.  Given those assumptions, I'd think you'd
want to hold off on releasing a partial feature that has near zero
end-user impact since even with the partial feature, we're still stuck
with hacking .svn/entries at this point.

Btw, what sort of timeframe are you talking about for implementing the
commandline UI?  If 1.5 released now, would the commandline UI be ready
for 1.5.1 or are you talking more of a 1.6+ timetrame?

- cls

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Chris Seawood <cl...@seawood.org>.
Mark Phippard wrote:
> On 3/9/07, *Roy Franz* <roy.lists@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     On 3/9/07, Mark Phippard <markphip@gmail.com
>     <ma...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>     > On 3/9/07, Wesley J. Landaker <wjl@icecavern.net
>     <ma...@icecavern.net>> wrote:
>     > > 1.5 would be *well* worth it just for SASL and sparse directory
>     support
>     > > IMHO. Merge tracking will be an excellent improvment, but I'm
>     much less
>     > > interested in getting that quickly. =)
>     >
>     > Everyone should understand the sparse directories are mainly going
>     to be
>     > included at the API level.  I do not think there is going to be
>     any command
>     > line level UI to create them (in the proposed timeframe).  In theory,
>     > various GUI tools or other consumers of the API could do something
>     with them
>     > though.
>     >
>     > I think if some UI did create a working copy that used this
>     feature, command
>     > line options like update should respect them.
> 
> 
>     This is rather disappointing, since if there is no user interface to
>     make use of this feature then it is mostly useless to the end user.
>     If only APIs are provided then the
>     feature is only of academic interest.
> 
> 
> The UI issues are complicated and have not even been started.  So we can
> either not release the feature until the UI is ready, or release the API
> now and let TortoiseSVN, Subclipse etc.. have the option of building
> their UI's that use the feature today.  That has the added benefit of
> getting the feature used earlier.

If the UI issues are as complicated as you say, wouldn't it take the 3rd
party GUI tools just as long, if not longer, to implement a frontend for
the API?  It seems that there'd be a non-zero chance that you'd need to
tweak the API when addressing problems that arise when implementing such
a complicated UI.  And presumably, tweaking the API would mean that
you'd have to rev a now released API, which seems like something you'd
want to avoid if possible.  Given those assumptions, I'd think you'd
want to hold off on releasing a partial feature that has near zero
end-user impact since even with the partial feature, we're still stuck
with hacking .svn/entries at this point.

Btw, what sort of timeframe are you talking about for implementing the
commandline UI?  If 1.5 released now, would the commandline UI be ready
for 1.5.1 or are you talking more of a 1.6+ timetrame?

- cls

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com>.
On 3/9/07, Roy Franz <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 3/9/07, Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 3/9/07, Wesley J. Landaker <wj...@icecavern.net> wrote:
> > > 1.5 would be *well* worth it just for SASL and sparse directory
> support
> > > IMHO. Merge tracking will be an excellent improvment, but I'm much
> less
> > > interested in getting that quickly. =)
> >
> > Everyone should understand the sparse directories are mainly going to be
> > included at the API level.  I do not think there is going to be any
> command
> > line level UI to create them (in the proposed timeframe).  In theory,
> > various GUI tools or other consumers of the API could do something with
> them
> > though.
> >
> > I think if some UI did create a working copy that used this feature,
> command
> > line options like update should respect them.
>
>
> This is rather disappointing, since if there is no user interface to
> make use of this feature then it is mostly useless to the end user.
> If only APIs are provided then the
> feature is only of academic interest.
>

The UI issues are complicated and have not even been started.  So we can
either not release the feature until the UI is ready, or release the API now
and let TortoiseSVN, Subclipse etc.. have the option of building their UI's
that use the feature today.  That has the added benefit of getting the
feature used earlier.

-- 
Thanks

Mark Phippard
http://markphip.blogspot.com/

Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Roy Franz <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 3/9/07, Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/9/07, Wesley J. Landaker <wj...@icecavern.net> wrote:
> > 1.5 would be *well* worth it just for SASL and sparse directory support
> > IMHO. Merge tracking will be an excellent improvment, but I'm much less
> > interested in getting that quickly. =)
>
> Everyone should understand the sparse directories are mainly going to be
> included at the API level.  I do not think there is going to be any command
> line level UI to create them (in the proposed timeframe).  In theory,
> various GUI tools or other consumers of the API could do something with them
> though.
>
> I think if some UI did create a working copy that used this feature, command
> line options like update should respect them.
> --
> Thanks
>
> Mark Phippard
>  http://markphip.blogspot.com/


This is rather disappointing, since if there is no user interface to
make use of this feature then it is mostly useless to the end user.
If only APIs are provided then the
feature is only of academic interest.

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by "Wesley J. Landaker" <wj...@icecavern.net>.
On Friday 09 March 2007 13:15, Mark Phippard wrote:
> On 3/9/07, Wesley J. Landaker <wj...@icecavern.net> wrote:
> > 1.5 would be *well* worth it just for SASL and sparse directory support
> > IMHO. Merge tracking will be an excellent improvment, but I'm much less
> > interested in getting that quickly. =)
>
> Everyone should understand the sparse directories are mainly going to be
> included at the API level.  I do not think there is going to be any
> command line level UI to create them (in the proposed timeframe).  In
> theory, various GUI tools or other consumers of the API could do
> something with them though.
>
> I think if some UI did create a working copy that used this feature,
> command line options like update should respect them.

Okay, but 1.5 would be still be *well* worth it just for SASL support. ;)

-- 
Wesley J. Landaker <wj...@icecavern.net> <xm...@icecavern.net>
OpenPGP FP: 4135 2A3B 4726 ACC5 9094  0097 F0A9 8A4C 4CD6 E3D2

Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Mark Phippard <ma...@gmail.com>.
On 3/9/07, Wesley J. Landaker <wj...@icecavern.net> wrote:
>
> 1.5 would be *well* worth it just for SASL and sparse directory support
> IMHO. Merge tracking will be an excellent improvment, but I'm much less
> interested in getting that quickly. =)


Everyone should understand the sparse directories are mainly going to be
included at the API level.  I do not think there is going to be any command
line level UI to create them (in the proposed timeframe).  In theory,
various GUI tools or other consumers of the API could do something with them
though.

I think if some UI did create a working copy that used this feature, command
line options like update should respect them.

-- 
Thanks

Mark Phippard
http://markphip.blogspot.com/

Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by "Wesley J. Landaker" <wj...@icecavern.net>.
On Friday 09 March 2007 11:43, Hyrum K. Wright wrote:
> As many of you know, significant development effort is going into
> implementing merge tracking as a part of Subversion.  This work is going
> well, but there is a concern among some of the developers that it has
> been too long since our last release and that we should not delay the
> Subversion 1.5 release while we wrap up this feature.
>
> There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready to go
> into the next Subversion release.  These include:
>  * Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
[...]
>  * Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
>    anticipated to be merged soon.)
[...]
> Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, would
> like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months with
> features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
> slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 1.5
> now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.

1.5 would be *well* worth it just for SASL and sparse directory support 
IMHO. Merge tracking will be an excellent improvment, but I'm much less 
interested in getting that quickly. =)

-- 
Wesley J. Landaker <wj...@icecavern.net> <xm...@icecavern.net>
OpenPGP FP: 4135 2A3B 4726 ACC5 9094  0097 F0A9 8A4C 4CD6 E3D2

Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Stefan Langer <ma...@googlemail.com>.
Release now and  take the time for mergetracking to become stable for 
release 1.6.

Regards
Stefan

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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by "Ignacio González T." <ig...@eliop.es>.
El 9 Mar 2007 a las 12:43, Hyrum K. Wright escribió:

> To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!

I'd rather wait 6 months for merge tracking than 9 months. On the other hand, I 
haven't got a clue what the other features mean (except, perhaps, bug fixes).

Of course, if I were my boss, I would say: "That's not an option: 3 months for the 
whole bunch!". Oh, that magic feeling...
-- 
Saludos,
  Ignacio González Torquemada
  ELIOP, S.A.                Departamento de Productos
  http://www.eliop.es       mailto:igtorque@eliop.es
  Tel. +34 91 383 57 47   Fax. +34 91 302 92 49


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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by "Hyrum K. Wright" <hy...@mail.utexas.edu>.
Kyle Kline wrote:
> Is there a doc in the src tree about what "dav mirroring" is?

http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/trunk/notes/webdav-proxy

> On 3/9/07, Hyrum K. Wright <hy...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>>
>> To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!
>>
>> As many of you know, significant development effort is going into
>> implementing merge tracking as a part of Subversion.  This work is going
>> well, but there is a concern among some of the developers that it has
>> been too long since our last release and that we should not delay the
>> Subversion 1.5 release while we wrap up this feature.
>>
>> There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready to go
>> into the next Subversion release.  These include:
>> * Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
>> * Copy/move improvements (Peg revision support, support 'svn mv file1
>>    file2; svn mv file2 file3', support 'svn cp *.c dir')
>> * Dav mirroring
>> * Cancellation improvements
>> * JavaHL improvements
>> * Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
>>    anticipated to be merged soon.)
>> * Changelist support
>> * Various bugfixes
>>
>> Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, would
>> like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months with
>> features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
>> slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 1.5
>> now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> The Subversion Development Team
>>
>>
>>
> 



RE: Subversion 1.5

Posted by Tom Malia <to...@ttdsinc.com>.
My opinion should carry next to no weight since I'm so new to the tool.
However, that said, as a newbie, I'd rather see bug fixes in particular at
this point rather than Merge tracking since bugs are more likely to give me
grief right now since I'll be making plenty of mistakes of my own and it's
all that much harder to figure out what I did wrong if it actually turns out
to be a bug.

Another 2 cents.... I huge issue for me will be reliability of the integrity
of the data in the repository so if any of those bug fixes are related to
avoiding corruption/lose of data in the repository database then PLEASE fix
the bugs first.

Regards,
Tom Malia
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Hyrum K. Wright [mailto:hyrum_wright@mail.utexas.edu] 
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 1:44 PM
To: users@subversion.tigris.org
Subject: Subversion 1.5

To all interested users: we'd like your opinion!

As many of you know, significant development effort is going into
implementing merge tracking as a part of Subversion.  This work is going
well, but there is a concern among some of the developers that it has
been too long since our last release and that we should not delay the
Subversion 1.5 release while we wrap up this feature.

There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready to go
into the next Subversion release.  These include:
 * Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
 * Copy/move improvements (Peg revision support, support 'svn mv file1
   file2; svn mv file2 file3', support 'svn cp *.c dir')
 * Dav mirroring
 * Cancellation improvements
 * JavaHL improvements
 * Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
   anticipated to be merged soon.)
 * Changelist support
 * Various bugfixes

Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion, would
like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months with
features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release 1.5
now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.

Thanks,
The Subversion Development Team



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Re: Subversion 1.5

Posted by asdf <fi...@yahoo.com>.
--- "Hyrum K. Wright" <hy...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:

> 
> There are currently several new features in trunk which are ready to
> go
> into the next Subversion release.  These include:
>  * Cyrus SASL support (SoC project '06)
>  * Copy/move improvements (Peg revision support, support 'svn mv
> file1
>    file2; svn mv file2 file3', support 'svn cp *.c dir')
>  * Dav mirroring
>  * Cancellation improvements
>  * JavaHL improvements
>  * Partial sparse directories support  (not in trunk yet, but
>    anticipated to be merged soon.)
>  * Changelist support
>  * Various bugfixes
> 
> Our question to you is whether or not you, as users of Subversion,
> would
> like Subversion 1.5 now with the above features, or 1.5 in 6 months
> with
> features plus merge tracking?   Releasing 1.5 now will push 1.6 back
> slightly due to the overhead associated with 1.5.  If we do release
> 1.5
> now, we hope to release 1.6, with merge tracking, by 4Q 2007.
> 

I'll be the first one to say that I am willing to wait ~ 6 months to
get  1.5 with merge tracking.

None of the features listed above is critical to our setup/use of
Subversion.

When you say "too long since the last release" are you referring to 1.4
or 1.4.3? If the former then I do agree, if the latter then I don't
think it has been that long since 1.4.3 was released.

I am hesitant to go through another upgrade cycle too soon since in our
environment we have subversion running on Windows and a few flavours of
UNIX.

Regards,



 
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