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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by Christoph Trappl <Ch...@gmx.at> on 2006/02/09 13:38:26 UTC

Several Questions

Dear all,

I have several questions concerning Subversion server and also TortoiseSVN
client setup / compatibility:

- Can I use SQL, MSDE or Oracle instead of the Berkley DB? (if yes, how?)
- Can I use subversion in combination with a "Reverse Proxy"?
- Can I use subversion in combination with CITRIX, are certificates
existing?
- Can I in general use subversion with terminal servers, and how does the
local project handling on a client look like?

Thanks for your answers.

kind regards
 Christoph

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Re: Several Questions

Posted by Frank Gruman <fg...@verizon.net>.
Christoph Trappl wrote:


<snip>
>>
>>     
> CITRIX IS IN GENERAL USED IN COMBINATION WITH TERMINAL SERVERS, MEANING ALL
> CLIENTS START THEIR PROGRAMS CENTRALLY ON A SERVER. THUS SOME MORE USERS
> MIGHT HAVE SIMULTANEOUS ACCESS TO CERTAIN SERVICES / TASKS.
>
>   
>>> - Can I in general use subversion with terminal servers, and how  
>>> does the
>>> local project handling on a client look like?
>>>       
>> I don't know what's meant by "terminal servers" or "project handling"...
>>     
> NORMALLY, WHEN WORKING WITH A TERMINAL SERVER, ALL PRORGRAMS, DATA, ETC. IS
> KEPT CENTRALLY ON THE SERVER. THIS ALSO APPLIES, THAT LOOKING AT SUBVERSION
> LOCAL WORKING COPIES ARE MIGHT BE PERMITTED, BUT I AM NOT SURE. JUST WANTED
> TO KNOW IF ANY EXPERIENCE, OR EVEN BETTER A HOW TO KIT EXISTS.
>   
</snip>

Christopher,

If all users are logging on to the terminal server with their own 
individual accounts then I believe the terminal server will create a 
user account under C:\Documents and Settings.  I think (don't have a 
server here to test on right now).  If so, then you can create a working 
copy under that path for each user account or create a folder structure 
of working copies somewhere else, one for each Terminal Service user.  
e.g. D:\working\JohnSmith, d:\working\MaryJones, etc.

You do NOT want to put the files out somewhere else for all users to 
modify simultaneously as Terminal Services will not tell all of the 
other users that a document is being used.  This shared file could then 
potentially be altered by several people before any one person does a 
commit. 

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Frank

Re: Several Questions

Posted by Kevin Greiner <gr...@gmail.com>.
On 2/10/06, Ryan Schmidt <su...@ryandesign.com> wrote:

I still can't quite get a mental picture of what that really means. I
> can tell you that most people have a repository server and then have
> working copies on their local machines, do work, test it, then check
> it in when it works.



It would be like if your devs all used xterm to connect to a central unix
server to do their work, storing their working copies beneath their home
directory. While the unixes have natively supported larged numbers of
remotely connected users for a long time, Windows started out as a
single-user system and isn't very good at multi-user mode yet today. There
is third-party software to help (such as Citrix) and Microsoft has released
an enhanced server that supports multiple remote users but this style of
working is still the exception among most Windows users.

Re: Several Questions

Posted by Ryan Schmidt <su...@ryandesign.com>.
On Feb 10, 2006, at 09:01, Christoph Trappl wrote:

>>> - Can I use SQL, MSDE or Oracle instead of the Berkley DB? (if yes,
>>> how?)
>>
>> No, the only available backends are BerkeleyDB and FSFS, a custom
>> format designed just for Subversion. FSFS is available since
>> Subversion 1.1.0 and is the default type for new repositories since
>> 1.2.0 and is recommended. For a rundown of the differences between
>> BDB and FSFS see here:
>>
>> http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/trunk/notes/fsfs
>
> SO FAR, SO GOOD (OR NOT:-)).

What do you mean, "or not"? Why would you care how Subversion keeps  
your data safe? Isn't it enough to know that it does?

I believe it was just last month that there was a discussion on this  
mailing list about what benefits people percieved by using an SQL  
backend. You can look it up in the archive if you like, but suffice  
it to say the topic has been brought up several times before, but in  
the end, the answer is that Subversion can't do that right now, and  
it's not a developer priority right now because it's not clear what  
the benefits are over the current implementation, or that the  
benefits, if there are any, justify the development effort, when  
perhaps the benefits can be achived in other ways, sometimes through  
other tools which already exist.


> CITRIX IS IN GENERAL USED IN COMBINATION WITH TERMINAL SERVERS,  
> MEANING ALL
> CLIENTS START THEIR PROGRAMS CENTRALLY ON A SERVER. THUS SOME MORE  
> USERS
> MIGHT HAVE SIMULTANEOUS ACCESS TO CERTAIN SERVICES / TASKS.

> NORMALLY, WHEN WORKING WITH A TERMINAL SERVER, ALL PRORGRAMS, DATA,  
> ETC. IS
> KEPT CENTRALLY ON THE SERVER. THIS ALSO APPLIES, THAT LOOKING AT  
> SUBVERSION
> LOCAL WORKING COPIES ARE MIGHT BE PERMITTED, BUT I AM NOT SURE.  
> JUST WANTED
> TO KNOW IF ANY EXPERIENCE, OR EVEN BETTER A HOW TO KIT EXISTS.

I still can't quite get a mental picture of what that really means. I  
can tell you that most people have a repository server and then have  
working copies on their local machines, do work, test it, then check  
it in when it works. This works well for many kinds of work, such as  
compiled software applications or non-programming collaboration. In  
our company, we develop PHP/MySQL web sites, so we happen to put our  
working copies on a central server which is set up with Apache and  
MySQL, and our users access those working copies either via a Samba  
mount on their Windows machines, or via an SSH session to the server  
over the command line.



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Re: Several Questions

Posted by Christoph Trappl <Ch...@gmx.at>.
Thanks for the answers, just some more information concerning the question.

> --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> Von: Ryan Schmidt <su...@ryandesign.com>
> An: Christoph Trappl <Ch...@gmx.at>
> Kopie: users@subversion.tigris.org
> Betreff: Re: Several Questions
> Datum: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 02:41:56 +0100
> 
> On Feb 9, 2006, at 14:38, Christoph Trappl wrote:
> 
> > I have several questions concerning Subversion server and also  
> > TortoiseSVN
> > client setup / compatibility:
> >
> > - Can I use SQL, MSDE or Oracle instead of the Berkley DB? (if yes,  
> > how?)
> 
> No, the only available backends are BerkeleyDB and FSFS, a custom  
> format designed just for Subversion. FSFS is available since  
> Subversion 1.1.0 and is the default type for new repositories since  
> 1.2.0 and is recommended. For a rundown of the differences between  
> BDB and FSFS see here:
> 
> http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/trunk/notes/fsfs

SO FAR, SO GOOD (OR NOT:-)).
> 
> 
> > - Can I use subversion in combination with a "Reverse Proxy"?
> 
> I don't have any experience with proxies so I can't answer this.
> 
> 
> > - Can I use subversion in combination with CITRIX, are certificates
> > existing?
> 
> I don't know CITRIX. If you're talking about authentication here,  
> then it's useful to know that the different methods you can use to  
> access a repository support different authentication mechanisms.  
> Using the file:// protocol, there's no authentication whatsoever, and  
> you have the permissions available to you through the filesystem, so  
> that's useful for little more than testing, or for single-developer  
> installations. svnserve supports a text file into which you can put  
> users and passwords, and a text file for path-specific access to  
> parts of the repository for certain users or groups. With the svn 
> +ssh:// protocol you authenticate with your normal Unix user accounts  
> on the server. And with the Apache2 server you can use any  
> authentication mechanism Apache supports. We use Apache to serve our  
> repository and authenticate with LDAP. If CITRIX can be used with  
> Apache, then you're in luck.
> 
CITRIX IS IN GENERAL USED IN COMBINATION WITH TERMINAL SERVERS, MEANING ALL
CLIENTS START THEIR PROGRAMS CENTRALLY ON A SERVER. THUS SOME MORE USERS
MIGHT HAVE SIMULTANEOUS ACCESS TO CERTAIN SERVICES / TASKS.

> > - Can I in general use subversion with terminal servers, and how  
> > does the
> > local project handling on a client look like?
> 
> I don't know what's meant by "terminal servers" or "project handling"...
NORMALLY, WHEN WORKING WITH A TERMINAL SERVER, ALL PRORGRAMS, DATA, ETC. IS
KEPT CENTRALLY ON THE SERVER. THIS ALSO APPLIES, THAT LOOKING AT SUBVERSION
LOCAL WORKING COPIES ARE MIGHT BE PERMITTED, BUT I AM NOT SURE. JUST WANTED
TO KNOW IF ANY EXPERIENCE, OR EVEN BETTER A HOW TO KIT EXISTS.

> 
> 

-- 
10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS/Monat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/topmail
+++ GMX - die erste Adresse für Mail, Message, More +++

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Re: Several Questions

Posted by Ryan Schmidt <su...@ryandesign.com>.
On Feb 9, 2006, at 14:38, Christoph Trappl wrote:

> I have several questions concerning Subversion server and also  
> TortoiseSVN
> client setup / compatibility:
>
> - Can I use SQL, MSDE or Oracle instead of the Berkley DB? (if yes,  
> how?)

No, the only available backends are BerkeleyDB and FSFS, a custom  
format designed just for Subversion. FSFS is available since  
Subversion 1.1.0 and is the default type for new repositories since  
1.2.0 and is recommended. For a rundown of the differences between  
BDB and FSFS see here:

http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/trunk/notes/fsfs


> - Can I use subversion in combination with a "Reverse Proxy"?

I don't have any experience with proxies so I can't answer this.


> - Can I use subversion in combination with CITRIX, are certificates
> existing?

I don't know CITRIX. If you're talking about authentication here,  
then it's useful to know that the different methods you can use to  
access a repository support different authentication mechanisms.  
Using the file:// protocol, there's no authentication whatsoever, and  
you have the permissions available to you through the filesystem, so  
that's useful for little more than testing, or for single-developer  
installations. svnserve supports a text file into which you can put  
users and passwords, and a text file for path-specific access to  
parts of the repository for certain users or groups. With the svn 
+ssh:// protocol you authenticate with your normal Unix user accounts  
on the server. And with the Apache2 server you can use any  
authentication mechanism Apache supports. We use Apache to serve our  
repository and authenticate with LDAP. If CITRIX can be used with  
Apache, then you're in luck.

> - Can I in general use subversion with terminal servers, and how  
> does the
> local project handling on a client look like?

I don't know what's meant by "terminal servers" or "project handling"...



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