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Posted to docs@httpd.apache.org by Ryan Bloom <rb...@covalent.net> on 2002/02/22 22:47:31 UTC
Modules.apache.org development mailing list!!!!
I know I am about two days late, but better late than never.
There is a new mailing list at dev@modules.apache.org. This list is to
be used for re-writing and maintaining modules.apache.org.
While we are at it, Covalent has decided to open archives.covalent.net
so that people can hack on that site as well. Once we get a group of
people on the mailing list to discuss how we want to do
modules.apache.org, we can decide if and how we want to tackle
archives.covalent.net, and that can include re-naming it to
archives.apache.org, although Covalent would like to keep an alias to
archives.covalent.net as well.
BTW, please keep in mind that the administration of this machine is
being done by Covalent employees in their spare time, so be patient if
something goes wrong.
One more thing, the mailing list is setup, but the web server and CVS
aren't on this box yet. I am hoping to do that later this weekend. In
the mean-time, we can discuss how we will move forward, and CVS and web
will be available ASAP.
Ryan
----------------------------------------------
Ryan Bloom rbb@covalent.net
645 Howard St. rbb@apache.org
San Francisco, CA
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RE: Modules.apache.org development mailing list!
Posted by Ryan Bloom <rb...@covalent.net>.
> According to Sander van Zoest:
>
> > It used to be at <http://archive.covalent.net/> and was also
reachable
> > via <http://mail-archives.apache.org/> but this got lost in the
downtime
> > and office move. We should probably update the IP so
> > mail-archives.apache.org
> > works again. Although most people use MARC now these days anyways.
>
> I'd prefer to having an 'official' apache.org location for
> all our mail archives.
As I said, I have no problem making archives.apache.org, I just want to
be able to also reach it using archive.covalent.net.
Ryan
Re: Modules.apache.org development mailing list!
Posted by Lars Eilebrecht <la...@hyperreal.org>.
According to Sander van Zoest:
> It used to be at <http://archive.covalent.net/> and was also reachable
> via <http://mail-archives.apache.org/> but this got lost in the downtime
> and office move. We should probably update the IP so
> mail-archives.apache.org
> works again. Although most people use MARC now these days anyways.
I'd prefer to having an 'official' apache.org location for
all our mail archives.
ciao...
--
Lars Eilebrecht - RFC 527: "Beware the ARPANET, my son;
lars@hyperreal.org - The bits that byte, the heads that scratch;"
Re: Modules.apache.org development mailing list!!!!
Posted by Sander van Zoest <sa...@vanZoest.com>.
On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Ryan Bloom wrote:
> While we are at it, Covalent has decided to open archives.covalent.net
> so that people can hack on that site as well. Once we get a group of
> people on the mailing list to discuss how we want to do
> modules.apache.org, we can decide if and how we want to tackle
> archives.covalent.net, and that can include re-naming it to
> archives.apache.org, although Covalent would like to keep an alias to
> archives.covalent.net as well.
It used to be at <http://archive.covalent.net/> and was also reachable
via <http://mail-archives.apache.org/> but this got lost in the downtime
and office move. We should probably update the IP so mail-archives.apache.org
works again. Although most people use MARC now these days anyways.
Cheers,
--
Sander van Zoest sander@vanzoest.com
San Diego, CA, US http://Sander.vanZoest.com/
Re: New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On Sat, 23 Feb 2002, Joshua Slive wrote:
> - Everything in the STATUS files, although they may not be perfectly
> up-to-date.
Is there stuff in the STATUS file that is not up-to-date? I looked
through it last week, and it seemed a pretty good picture of what need
to be done.
--
Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com
ReefKnot - http://www.reefknot.org
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RE: New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Mon, 25 Feb 2002, Rich Bowen wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Rich Bowen wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Brad Miller wrote:
> >
> > > About the strictness of it, do we want to make sure that everything already
> > > written validates or do we want to go
> > > back through stuff and modify it (if necessary) to conform to the DTD?
> >
> > There is no requirement that what has already been written is the
> > benchmark for all development to come. I would rather Joshua and I have
> > to redo what we have done if there is a better way to do it.
>
> By the way, Joshua, you like the way I volunteered you to do more work?
> Heh. What I meant here is that it would be preferable to make things
> better at this stage than have to redo everything again at a later date,
> once we are already done.
+1!
Joshua.
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RE: New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Brad Miller <br...@beldamar.com>.
~~By the way, Joshua, you like the way I volunteered you to do more work?
~~Heh. What I meant here is that it would be preferable to make things
~~better at this stage than have to redo everything again at a later date,
~~once we are already done.
I will start working on this today. Hopefully I can have something solid by
the end of the week.
If it comes down to it, and we have to change some things around we can
probably use a perl script (or something similar)
to make all the changes for us. It will most likely be stuff that will is
similar throughout.
Thanks,
Brad Miller
brad@beldamar.com
www.beldamar.com
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RE: New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Rich Bowen wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Brad Miller wrote:
>
> > About the strictness of it, do we want to make sure that everything already
> > written validates or do we want to go
> > back through stuff and modify it (if necessary) to conform to the DTD?
>
> There is no requirement that what has already been written is the
> benchmark for all development to come. I would rather Joshua and I have
> to redo what we have done if there is a better way to do it.
By the way, Joshua, you like the way I volunteered you to do more work?
Heh. What I meant here is that it would be preferable to make things
better at this stage than have to redo everything again at a later date,
once we are already done.
--
Who can say where the road goes
Where the day flows
Only time
--Pilgrim (Enya - A Day Without Rain)
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I found the files
Posted by Brad Miller <br...@beldamar.com>.
I found it.
I guess I should try opening my eyes when looking for things.
Thanks,
Brad Miller
brad@beldamar.com
www.beldamar.com
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RE: New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Brad Miller <br...@beldamar.com>.
~~mod_setenvif.xml is presumably the one that is the most correct at the
~~moment, since it has been used as the template for all the later ones.
I installed Wincvs tonight and didn't really have any problems with that.
I able to check out all of the files out of both httpd-docs-1.3 and
httpd-docs-2.0
the only xml files I see are the messages-?.xml
What am I missing here?
Thanks,
Brad Miller
brad@beldamar.com
www.beldamar.com
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RE: New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Brad Miller wrote:
> About the strictness of it, do we want to make sure that everything already
> written validates or do we want to go
> back through stuff and modify it (if necessary) to conform to the DTD?
There is no requirement that what has already been written is the
benchmark for all development to come. I would rather Joshua and I have
to redo what we have done if there is a better way to do it.
> Can anyone point out a couple specific files to use as examples? I am sure
> that since there isn't a DTD yet that we have some
> differences in format. Or should I just say, hey, here is the DTD and the
> format is now this! We can always tweak it from there.
mod_setenvif.xml is presumably the one that is the most correct at the
moment, since it has been used as the template for all the later ones.
> I will definetly try to stick as closely to what exists of course but when
> we get right down to it there will have to be some mods, I'm sure.
That's fine. We need to do it right now, rather than figure out 6 months
ago and have to redo even more.
--
Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com
ReefKnot - http://www.reefknot.org
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RE: New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Brad Miller <br...@beldamar.com>.
~~~~> ~~- Creating a DTD to match the format we are using. I'm a little
skeptical
~~> ~~about this, since we would need to include a big chunk of xhtml, and
~~> ~~I'm not sure how much value it would have in the end anyway.
~~>
~~> We can open up the DTD so that it will accept anything between certain
tags.
~~> It
~~> all depends on how strict you want to get with it. I will play around
with
~~> some ideas.
~~
~~Sounds interesting. I didn't know you could do that. (There's alot I
~~don't know about DTDs!)
It sounds like the DTD might be a great place for me to start. If anyone has
any suggestions on rules
for it let me know.
About the strictness of it, do we want to make sure that everything already
written validates or do we want to go
back through stuff and modify it (if necessary) to conform to the DTD?
Can anyone point out a couple specific files to use as examples? I am sure
that since there isn't a DTD yet that we have some
differences in format. Or should I just say, hey, here is the DTD and the
format is now this! We can always tweak it from there.
I will definetly try to stick as closely to what exists of course but when
we get right down to it there will have to be some mods, I'm sure.
Thanks for all the Windows suggestions on cvs. I wiil try to get that setup
this week.
Thanks,
Brad Miller
brad@beldamar.com
www.beldamar.com
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RE: New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Brad Miller wrote:
> I took a look through the status files and some of the xml files.
> The XML conversion doesn't look very difficult. Since I am new here I may
> need a little
> more direction on what needs to be done. I guess it will take me a little
> while to get
> familiar with the way things are done here. I'll pass on questions as I get
> to them.
Fire away whenever. As I mentioned before, it is best to let the list
know what you are working on so we don't duplicate work. At the moment,
I'm focusing on converting the MPM documentation, but I've been held up
for a few days on other things.
>
> ~~Other things that you could consider doing:
> ~~- Looking at httpd-2.0/docs/manual/style/manual.xsl and manual.css and
> ~~improving them to make something cleaner and better looking.
>
> I can do that.
>
Great!
> ~~- Creating a DTD to match the format we are using. I'm a little skeptical
> ~~about this, since we would need to include a big chunk of xhtml, and
> ~~I'm not sure how much value it would have in the end anyway.
>
> We can open up the DTD so that it will accept anything between certain tags.
> It
> all depends on how strict you want to get with it. I will play around with
> some ideas.
Sounds interesting. I didn't know you could do that. (There's alot I
don't know about DTDs!)
Joshua.
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RE: New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Cliff Woolley wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Rich Bowen wrote:
>
> > wincvs.com
>
> It's wincvs.org.
>
> > Wincvs is a pain to get set up, and the menus are moderately
> > unintuitive, but once you have it set up, it is not hard to use.
>
> FWIW, I've had no end of trouble with Wincvs. Too many bugs.
>
> > Or, if you want more of the Unix feel, try cygwin.
>
> Or you can use the win32 native port of command-line CVS, which is quite
> similar to the Unix version, except it handles things like
> case-sensitivity and line endings more smartly than the cygwin version
> last I checked.
>
> http://www.cvshome.org/dev/codewindow.html
I use the win32 native port as well. I use putty's plink for ssh
tunnelling (but you don't need to worry about that until you get commit
access).
This site has some tutorials for win32, but I'm not sure how accurate they
are:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/cvsonwin32.html
Joshua.
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RE: New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Ryan Bloom wrote:
> > On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Rich Bowen wrote:
> >
> > > wincvs.com
> >
> > It's wincvs.org.
> >
> > > Wincvs is a pain to get set up, and the menus are moderately
> > > unintuitive, but once you have it set up, it is not hard to use.
> >
> > FWIW, I've had no end of trouble with Wincvs. Too many bugs.
> >
> > > Or, if you want more of the Unix feel, try cygwin.
> >
> > Or you can use the win32 native port of command-line CVS, which is
> quite
> > similar to the Unix version, except it handles things like
> > case-sensitivity and line endings more smartly than the cygwin version
> > last I checked.
> >
> > http://www.cvshome.org/dev/codewindow.html
>
> I whole-heartedly agree with Cliff. I have recently moved to Windows
> being my main machine, with VMware for development, and CVS on Windows
> was a PITA until I got the native CVS. The problem with cygwin is that
> it reports that it is Unix to the CVS server, so CVS send Unix line
> ends. Then, if you edit the file with a native editor, you save it with
> Windows line ends. When you commit the file back, the version in CVS
> will have Windows line ends, which causes no end of grief.
>
> Cygwin needs to learn that if they are running on a Windows machine,
> they need to look like Windows, otherwise they are hurting people who
> use their tools.
Cool. This is good to know. Having been completely Microsoft Free for 2
years now, I'm largely unaware of things like this. I've passed this on
to a few of my Microsoft-encumbered friends who have been struggling
with WinCVS for some time now. Thanks.
--
Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com
Author - Apache Administrator's Guide
http://www.ApacheAdmin.com/
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RE: New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Ryan Bloom <rb...@covalent.net>.
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Rich Bowen wrote:
>
> > wincvs.com
>
> It's wincvs.org.
>
> > Wincvs is a pain to get set up, and the menus are moderately
> > unintuitive, but once you have it set up, it is not hard to use.
>
> FWIW, I've had no end of trouble with Wincvs. Too many bugs.
>
> > Or, if you want more of the Unix feel, try cygwin.
>
> Or you can use the win32 native port of command-line CVS, which is
quite
> similar to the Unix version, except it handles things like
> case-sensitivity and line endings more smartly than the cygwin version
> last I checked.
>
> http://www.cvshome.org/dev/codewindow.html
I whole-heartedly agree with Cliff. I have recently moved to Windows
being my main machine, with VMware for development, and CVS on Windows
was a PITA until I got the native CVS. The problem with cygwin is that
it reports that it is Unix to the CVS server, so CVS send Unix line
ends. Then, if you edit the file with a native editor, you save it with
Windows line ends. When you commit the file back, the version in CVS
will have Windows line ends, which causes no end of grief.
Cygwin needs to learn that if they are running on a Windows machine,
they need to look like Windows, otherwise they are hurting people who
use their tools.
Ryan
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RE: New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Cliff Woolley <jw...@virginia.edu>.
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Rich Bowen wrote:
> wincvs.com
It's wincvs.org.
> Wincvs is a pain to get set up, and the menus are moderately
> unintuitive, but once you have it set up, it is not hard to use.
FWIW, I've had no end of trouble with Wincvs. Too many bugs.
> Or, if you want more of the Unix feel, try cygwin.
Or you can use the win32 native port of command-line CVS, which is quite
similar to the Unix version, except it handles things like
case-sensitivity and line endings more smartly than the cygwin version
last I checked.
http://www.cvshome.org/dev/codewindow.html
--Cliff
--------------------------------------------------------------
Cliff Woolley
cliffwoolley@yahoo.com
Charlottesville, VA
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RE: New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On Sun, 24 Feb 2002, Brad Miller wrote:
> ~~Yep. The first thing to do is to learn how to use CVS. A good set of
> ~~instructions is at
> ~~http://apache-server.com/tutorials/ATdocs-project.html
> ~~If you have problems with that, there are other tutorials we can point you
> ~~to.
>
> OK, are there any docs on using cvs on a windows box. I do not have access
> to a unix machine here.
> If I can't use it on Windows no biggie, I'll figure out another way.
wincvs.com
Wincvs is a pain to get set up, and the menus are moderately
unintuitive, but once you have it set up, it is not hard to use.
Or, if you want more of the Unix feel, try cygwin.
--
Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com
http://kenya.rcbowen.com/
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RE: New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Brad Miller <br...@beldamar.com>.
~~Yep. The first thing to do is to learn how to use CVS. A good set of
~~instructions is at
~~http://apache-server.com/tutorials/ATdocs-project.html
~~If you have problems with that, there are other tutorials we can point you
~~to.
OK, are there any docs on using cvs on a windows box. I do not have access
to a unix machine here.
If I can't use it on Windows no biggie, I'll figure out another way.
~~Assuming you are cvs-profficient, then take a look in
~~cvs.apache.org:httpd-2.0/docs/manual/style/ and httpd-2.0/docs/manual/mod/
~~We are converting from an old html format to a new xml format. Some
~~limited documentation on the new format is at
~~http://httpd.apache.org/docs-project/docsformat.html
~~but the best way to learn is by looking at some of the already-converted
~~docs. We could certainly use help continuing with that conversion
~~process. This is relatively boring work, but certainly important.
I took a look through the status files and some of the xml files.
The XML conversion doesn't look very difficult. Since I am new here I may
need a little
more direction on what needs to be done. I guess it will take me a little
while to get
familiar with the way things are done here. I'll pass on questions as I get
to them.
~~Other things that you could consider doing:
~~- Looking at httpd-2.0/docs/manual/style/manual.xsl and manual.css and
~~improving them to make something cleaner and better looking.
I can do that.
~~- Creating a DTD to match the format we are using. I'm a little skeptical
~~about this, since we would need to include a big chunk of xhtml, and
~~I'm not sure how much value it would have in the end anyway.
We can open up the DTD so that it will accept anything between certain tags.
It
all depends on how strict you want to get with it. I will play around with
some ideas.
Thanks,
Brad Miller
brad@beldamar.com
www.beldamar.com
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Re: New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Joshua Slive <jo...@slive.ca>.
On Sat, 23 Feb 2002, Rich Bowen wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Brad Miller wrote:
>
> > I would like to help out with some of the documentation.
> > I heard you were trying to work on converting stuff over to XML.
> >
> > I am not sure what I can do to help so I will list my skills and maybe
> > someone can point me in the right direction.
> >
> > HTML
> > XML
> > DTD's
> > CSS
> > Graphics
> > I am just learning a little bit about XSL now so I don't know if I can help
> > all that much in that area.
> >
> > I am currently a technical writer for a software development company.
> > Hope I can help.
>
> We can certainly always use more help. There is a STATUS file in the
> documentation directory that lists all of the things that we are
> currently working on - there is one of these for 1.3, and a different
> one for 2.0. I guess the first step would be to get a cvs checkout and
> have a look through those.
>
> We're making good progress on the XML conversion, but there's still some
> to do.
Yep. The first thing to do is to learn how to use CVS. A good set of
instructions is at
http://apache-server.com/tutorials/ATdocs-project.html
If you have problems with that, there are other tutorials we can point you
to.
Assuming you are cvs-profficient, then take a look in
cvs.apache.org:httpd-2.0/docs/manual/style/ and httpd-2.0/docs/manual/mod/
We are converting from an old html format to a new xml format. Some
limited documentation on the new format is at
http://httpd.apache.org/docs-project/docsformat.html
but the best way to learn is by looking at some of the already-converted
docs. We could certainly use help continuing with that conversion
process. This is relatively boring work, but certainly important.
Other things that you could consider doing:
- Looking at httpd-2.0/docs/manual/style/manual.xsl and manual.css and
improving them to make something cleaner and better looking.
- Creating a DTD to match the format we are using. I'm a little skeptical
about this, since we would need to include a big chunk of xhtml, and
I'm not sure how much value it would have in the end anyway.
- Everything in the STATUS files, although they may not be perfectly
up-to-date.
Feel free to ask any questions or make any suggestions.
Joshua.
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Re: New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Brad Miller wrote:
> I would like to help out with some of the documentation.
> I heard you were trying to work on converting stuff over to XML.
>
> I am not sure what I can do to help so I will list my skills and maybe
> someone can point me in the right direction.
>
> HTML
> XML
> DTD's
> CSS
> Graphics
> I am just learning a little bit about XSL now so I don't know if I can help
> all that much in that area.
>
> I am currently a technical writer for a software development company.
> Hope I can help.
We can certainly always use more help. There is a STATUS file in the
documentation directory that lists all of the things that we are
currently working on - there is one of these for 1.3, and a different
one for 2.0. I guess the first step would be to get a cvs checkout and
have a look through those.
We're making good progress on the XML conversion, but there's still some
to do.
--
Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com
ReefKnot - http://www.reefknot.org
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New to the list and ready to help out.
Posted by Brad Miller <br...@beldamar.com>.
I would like to help out with some of the documentation.
I heard you were trying to work on converting stuff over to XML.
I am not sure what I can do to help so I will list my skills and maybe
someone can point me in the right direction.
HTML
XML
DTD's
CSS
Graphics
I am just learning a little bit about XSL now so I don't know if I can help
all that much in that area.
I am currently a technical writer for a software development company.
Hope I can help.
Thanks,
Brad Miller
brad@beldamar.com
www.beldamar.com
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