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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> on 2018/11/21 09:58:15 UTC
Translations update
Hi all,
I wanted to let you know about the amazing progress that is being made
on the Tomcat translations at
https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
In the short time since this effort has started the community has
achieved the following:
- French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
- Simplified Chinese has been added and has already reached 32% coverage
- Korean has been added and has reached 10% coverage
- German has increased from 2% to 7% coverage
- Brazilian Portuguese has been added and has reached 4% coverage
- Spanish has increased from 42% to 44% coverage
as well as a smaller number of additions and corrections to another 6
languages.
A big thank you to everyone who has contributed.
There is still lots to do so if you would like to help out please join
us at:
https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
Thanks,
Mark
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Woonsan Ko <wo...@apache.org>.
It is truly amazing. I'm proud of ourselves. Let's keep improving it together!
Cheers,
Woonsan
On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 4:58 AM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I wanted to let you know about the amazing progress that is being made
> on the Tomcat translations at
> https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
>
> In the short time since this effort has started the community has
> achieved the following:
>
> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
> - Simplified Chinese has been added and has already reached 32% coverage
> - Korean has been added and has reached 10% coverage
> - German has increased from 2% to 7% coverage
> - Brazilian Portuguese has been added and has reached 4% coverage
> - Spanish has increased from 42% to 44% coverage
>
> as well as a smaller number of additions and corrections to another 6
> languages.
>
> A big thank you to everyone who has contributed.
>
> There is still lots to do so if you would like to help out please join
> us at:
> https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Rémy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 12:01 AM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 23/11/2018 22:51, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
> >>
> >
> > Done (well, close enough, a few tribes/ha remain) !
> >
> > Or rather, the initial work is done, gradual proofreading, rewording and
> > harmonizing would be needed. But it's not too bad as search and replace
> is
> > easier than initial translation (IMO).
> >
> > And the source English strings are not exempt from that either, for
> example:
> > - many strings have big WARNING at first: it should be removed as it
> > duplicates the log level of the logger
> > - similar: message location info, like the thing occurred in FooBarClass,
> > which well, is probably going to be the log category
>
Explanation for Jasper: it uses the ServletContext "logger" (I had
forgotten), and it only has a generic log method which logs either as info
or error. However the "WARN" should probably not be i18n-ed to be able to
be further processed if needed and it shouldn't be part of the String, it
should be "WARN: " + i18n.
> > - debug with lots of random variables like in Tribes/HA, this shouldn't
> > have i18n
> > - some random digressions, IMO it should be kept to the point and avoid
> > many sentences
> >
> > Is it possible to edit English directly in POEditor, or should it be done
> > in svn/git ?
>
> We can edit the English directly. We just need to be careful about
> keeping POEditor and svn in sync.
>
> Let me check how in sync they are at the moment for English...
>
> Look to be 100% in sync so edit away in POEditor if that is easier.
> Worth mentioning your plans on dev@ in case anyone is thinking of
> updating the terms and/or English values.
>
Ok, nice.
Rémy
Re: Translations update
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 23/11/2018 22:51, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
>>
>
> Done (well, close enough, a few tribes/ha remain) !
>
> Or rather, the initial work is done, gradual proofreading, rewording and
> harmonizing would be needed. But it's not too bad as search and replace is
> easier than initial translation (IMO).
>
> And the source English strings are not exempt from that either, for example:
> - many strings have big WARNING at first: it should be removed as it
> duplicates the log level of the logger
> - similar: message location info, like the thing occurred in FooBarClass,
> which well, is probably going to be the log category
> - debug with lots of random variables like in Tribes/HA, this shouldn't
> have i18n
> - some random digressions, IMO it should be kept to the point and avoid
> many sentences
>
> Is it possible to edit English directly in POEditor, or should it be done
> in svn/git ?
We can edit the English directly. We just need to be careful about
keeping POEditor and svn in sync.
Let me check how in sync they are at the moment for English...
Look to be 100% in sync so edit away in POEditor if that is easier.
Worth mentioning your plans on dev@ in case anyone is thinking of
updating the terms and/or English values.
Mark
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Emmanuel Bourg <eb...@apache.org>.
Le 26/11/2018 à 13:29, Rémy Maucherat a écrit :
> Now we can try to harmonize terms, fixes are then easy to do with the
> search feature
>
> Common ones we have right now:
> - "socket" (usually untranslated or cleverly omitted): ?
+1 untranslated
> - "endpoint" (for websockets, and for the Tomcat connectors, so possibly
> two different terms): "point d'entrée" ?
+1 for "point d'entrée"
> - "thread" (often it is untranslated elsewhere): "fil d'exécution" ?
untranslated is more clear.
> - "membership" (that's the clustering object): "gestionnaire de membres" ?
"appartenance" ?
> - "dispatch"/"dispatcher" (for the Servlet request dispatcher): ?
"répartiteur" ?
Emmanuel Bourg
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Ulises Gonzalez Horta <ul...@ulinxonline.net>.
On 2018-11-28 11:04, gustavo.avitabile@unina.it wrote:
> Quoting Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>:
>
>> André,
>>
>> On 11/26/18 08:35, André Warnier (tomcat) wrote:
>>> On 26.11.2018 13:29, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
>>>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM Ludovic Pénet <l....@senat.fr>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Le vendredi 23 novembre 2018 à 23:51 +0100, Rémy Maucherat a
>>>>> écrit :
>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas
>>>>>> <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Done (well, close enough, a few tribes/ha remain) !
>>>>> A single translation remains to be performed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jump to https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl and be the
>>>>> one to complete the French translation. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ok, you could have finished it, I was busy.
>>>>
>>>> Now we can try to harmonize terms, fixes are then easy to do with
>>>> the search feature
>>>>
>>>> Common ones we have right now: - "socket" (usually untranslated
>>>> or cleverly omitted): ? - "endpoint" (for websockets, and for the
>>>> Tomcat connectors, so possibly two different terms): "point
>>>> d'entrée" ?
>>>
>>> That sounds like exactly the opposite of "endpoint" to me. Although
>>> I must say that even in English, the vocabulary used in some
>>> reference documents (in particular everything to do with XML-based
>>> protocols, such as SOAP, SAML, OASIS and the like) is sometimes
>>> mysterious and counter-intuitive. What about "cible" here ? Or more
>>> literally, "point final" ?
>>
>> I disagree.
>>
>> An "endpoint" is a thing to which clients connect... an "entry point",
>> as Rémy suggests.
>>
>>> For "socket", "soquet" (like the piece in which you insert a plug,
>>> or a lightbulb) sounds ok to me.
>>
>> This sounds okay to me, thought I don't know French at all. :)
>>
>>>> - "thread" (often it is untranslated elsewhere): "fil
>>>> d'exécution" ? - "membership" (that's the clustering object):
>>>> "gestionnaire de membres" ?
>>>
>>> "Membership" refers to "le fait d'être membre", no ? "adhésion" ?
>>> (like "cluster members" -> "adhérents au cluster" (with the
>>> appropriate French pronounciation for "cleustère") :-)
>>
>> What would you call a list of people who belong to a certain fancy
>> club or society? That's the word that should be used, here.
>>
>>>> - "dispatch"/"dispatcher" (for the Servlet request dispatcher):
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>
>>> dépêcher / dépêcheur ?
>>>
>>>> And I just saw it is really "connexion" and not "connection".
>>>> Oooops, I thought both were ok. I guess it's the same kind of
>>>> mistake with English-UK vs English-US, where I usually hate the
>>>> UK style (except in HarryP and Discworld, it's part of the charm
>>>> I suppose).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe a note : the target audience of most of these messages is not
>>> the members of the Académie or the jury of the Prix Goncourt. Its
>>> is programmers, sysadmins and qualified tomcat/webservers users.
>>> The translations should be helpful to them, to get a first idea of
>>> the issue and be able to search later in the on-line documentation.
>>> Which happens to be only available/up-to-date/searchable in
>>> English, no ?
>>>
>>> So I believe that a translation such as "La requête PTHT recue sur
>>> le soquet du connecteur de toile a été dépêchée au conducteur du
>>> groupe d'adhérents" may be stylistically correct, but ultimately
>>> quite counter-productive.
>>>
>>> (Sorry for the missing c cédille, can't type it here) (PTHT =
>>> Protocol de Transport Hyper-Texte)
>>
>> HTTP should always be spelled HTTP and never PTHT, just like UTC is
>> always spelled UTC, even in English (where the acronym makes no sense
>> to Englist speakers).
>>
>> I think maybe you were kidding, but ... just in case :)
>>
>> - -chris
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>
> I am Italian, not French, but the issues discussed here are relevant
> for Italian too.
>
> I suggest, as a general criterion, that terms that should be known
> to a typical reader (like socket, thread, ...) be left untranslated;
> otherwise, the reader will face the additional problem of identifying
> what the translated term really means.
> Gustavo
>
>
I'm not Italian neither French but Spanish, and I agree with you guys.
I'm trying to follow that philosophy on my translations
Certainly there are some words that cannot/should not be translated
--
Salu2, Ulinx
"En un problema con n ecuaciones
siempre habrá al menos n+1 incógnitas"
Linux user 366775
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Re: Translations update
Posted by gu...@unina.it.
Quoting Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>:
> André,
>
> On 11/26/18 08:35, André Warnier (tomcat) wrote:
>> On 26.11.2018 13:29, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
>>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM Ludovic Pénet <l....@senat.fr>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Le vendredi 23 novembre 2018 à 23:51 +0100, Rémy Maucherat a
>>>> écrit :
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas
>>>>> <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Done (well, close enough, a few tribes/ha remain) !
>>>> A single translation remains to be performed.
>>>>
>>>> Jump to https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl and be the
>>>> one to complete the French translation. ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ok, you could have finished it, I was busy.
>>>
>>> Now we can try to harmonize terms, fixes are then easy to do with
>>> the search feature
>>>
>>> Common ones we have right now: - "socket" (usually untranslated
>>> or cleverly omitted): ? - "endpoint" (for websockets, and for the
>>> Tomcat connectors, so possibly two different terms): "point
>>> d'entrée" ?
>>
>> That sounds like exactly the opposite of "endpoint" to me. Although
>> I must say that even in English, the vocabulary used in some
>> reference documents (in particular everything to do with XML-based
>> protocols, such as SOAP, SAML, OASIS and the like) is sometimes
>> mysterious and counter-intuitive. What about "cible" here ? Or more
>> literally, "point final" ?
>
> I disagree.
>
> An "endpoint" is a thing to which clients connect... an "entry point",
> as Rémy suggests.
>
>> For "socket", "soquet" (like the piece in which you insert a plug,
>> or a lightbulb) sounds ok to me.
>
> This sounds okay to me, thought I don't know French at all. :)
>
>>> - "thread" (often it is untranslated elsewhere): "fil
>>> d'exécution" ? - "membership" (that's the clustering object):
>>> "gestionnaire de membres" ?
>>
>> "Membership" refers to "le fait d'être membre", no ? "adhésion" ?
>> (like "cluster members" -> "adhérents au cluster" (with the
>> appropriate French pronounciation for "cleustère") :-)
>
> What would you call a list of people who belong to a certain fancy
> club or society? That's the word that should be used, here.
>
>>> - "dispatch"/"dispatcher" (for the Servlet request dispatcher):
>>> ?
>>>
>>
>> dépêcher / dépêcheur ?
>>
>>> And I just saw it is really "connexion" and not "connection".
>>> Oooops, I thought both were ok. I guess it's the same kind of
>>> mistake with English-UK vs English-US, where I usually hate the
>>> UK style (except in HarryP and Discworld, it's part of the charm
>>> I suppose).
>>>
>>
>> Maybe a note : the target audience of most of these messages is not
>> the members of the Académie or the jury of the Prix Goncourt. Its
>> is programmers, sysadmins and qualified tomcat/webservers users.
>> The translations should be helpful to them, to get a first idea of
>> the issue and be able to search later in the on-line documentation.
>> Which happens to be only available/up-to-date/searchable in
>> English, no ?
>>
>> So I believe that a translation such as "La requête PTHT recue sur
>> le soquet du connecteur de toile a été dépêchée au conducteur du
>> groupe d'adhérents" may be stylistically correct, but ultimately
>> quite counter-productive.
>>
>> (Sorry for the missing c cédille, can't type it here) (PTHT =
>> Protocol de Transport Hyper-Texte)
>
> HTTP should always be spelled HTTP and never PTHT, just like UTC is
> always spelled UTC, even in English (where the acronym makes no sense
> to Englist speakers).
>
> I think maybe you were kidding, but ... just in case :)
>
> - -chris
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
I am Italian, not French, but the issues discussed here are relevant
for Italian too.
I suggest, as a general criterion, that terms that should be known
to a typical reader (like socket, thread, ...) be left untranslated;
otherwise, the reader will face the additional problem of identifying
what the translated term really means.
Gustavo
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
André,
On 11/26/18 17:07, André Warnier (tomcat) wrote:
> On 26.11.2018 17:01, Christopher Schultz wrote:
>>> We were super serious, like for Apache Matou:)
>> :)
>>
>> I like that as a (silly) name (Apache Dead?), but didn't get the
>> actual joke.:(
>
> "matou" is the litteral French translation of "tomcat". (Evokes a
> big tough male macho alley cat, the kind which takes no sh.. from
> anyone).
Aw... Google Translate failed me and I didn't notice.
I had it translate "matou" (which I suspected would be "Tomcat",
actually, even though I know that "chat" is "cat"), but GT
auto-detected the language as "Portuguese" and translated it as "killed"
.
It really killed the joke. ;)
- -chris
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Re: Translations update
Posted by "André Warnier (tomcat)" <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
On 26.11.2018 17:01, Christopher Schultz wrote:
>> We were super serious, like for Apache Matou:)
> :)
>
> I like that as a (silly) name (Apache Dead?), but didn't get the
> actual joke.:(
"matou" is the litteral French translation of "tomcat".
(Evokes a big tough male macho alley cat, the kind which takes no sh.. from anyone).
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Esther Montes <es...@gmail.com>.
0074060468940215
El mié., 28 de nov. de 2018 11:04 PM, Esther Montes <
esthermontes254@gmail.com> escribió:
> Ola buenas noches nomás para darle mi número de cuenta ok gracias
>
> El mié., 28 de nov. de 2018 10:58 AM, Christopher Schultz <
> chris@christopherschultz.net> escribió:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>> André,
>>
>> On 11/27/18 06:01, André Warnier (tomcat) wrote:
>> > I must say that, although I tried to participate as much I could, I
>> > have some reservations about this whole translation project. And
>> > that is because most of the original messages which I have seen,
>> > are really "technical" and not at all oriented to a general public
>> > which may be using applications built on tomcat, but rather to a
>> > public having to deal specifically with tomcat Java code and tomcat
>> > configuration files. This public is going to need messages which
>> > they can later connect to that code and/or to the configuration
>> > files language and/or to the available documentation. And let's
>> > face it : in terms of anything computer-related,
>> > non-native-English-speakers (such as myself) lost out a long time
>> > ago, and have had, and will have, to learn a modicum of English
>> > technical computer language anyway, just to understand the basics
>> > of their field of expertise. That is not what most of us would
>> > culturally prefer, but it is a fact of life.
>>
>> I would argue that is an exercise in democratization: Tomcat can be a
>> project that is actually accommodating to its users (administrators,
>> programmers, etc.) instead of being hostile by using log messages that
>> are unreadable.
>>
>> Note that Java itself has error messages translated into non-English
>> languages for this very reason. Is there a huge between "io error" and
>> "erreur d'entrée / sortie"? Not really. But I know that if I saw an
>> error message in French, it would be a lot more difficult for me to do
>> my job.
>>
>> > Now I really apologise to anyone who has already spent a great
>> > amount of donated time to achieve the current levels of
>> > translations.
>> >
>> > But, not to mince words, isn't this all in all and ultimately, a
>> > big waste of time ?
>> >
>> > And shouldn't we be looking at more efficient ways of achieving the
>> > real main goal of all this, which is basically to make sure that,
>> > when something bad happens as a result of using tomcat, the people
>> > in charge would get precise and understandable information about
>> > what happened, and about where they can find more information
>> > helping them correcting the issue ?
>> >
>> > I'll use an example : Suppose I'm one of these
>> > non-native-English-speakers sysadmins or developers, and I find a
>> > message in the tomcat logs, such as : "Could not find the main
>> > class: org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Program will exit."
>> > and I do not really understand what it says.
>> >
>> > I would go to https://translate.google.com, paste in the above
>> > message, and instantly get : French : "Impossible de trouver la
>> > classe principale: org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Le
>> > programme va sortir."
>> >
>> > German : "Die Hauptklasse konnte nicht gefunden werden:
>> > org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Das Programm wird
>> > geschlossen."
>> >
>> > Spanish : "No se pudo encontrar la clase principal:
>> > org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Programa saldrá."
>> >
>> > Polish : "Nie można znaleźć głównej klasy:
>> > org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Program zostanie
>> > zamknięty." (Note : I don't know anything about the Polish
>> > language, just adding it for the fun; but also to ilustrate that
>> > the same website provides dozens of target languages.)
>> >
>> > The point is : are any of the above worse/better than what we get
>> > by this current quite time-consuming one-off (but to remain
>> > relevant, regularly repeated and maintained) translation effort, in
>> > the perpective of the potential users of these messages ?
>> >
>> > And if nowadays Google can do that, not only for tomcat but for a
>> > host of fields and languages, should it not be possible to
>> > integrate some of this logic directly into tomcat, which after all
>> > needs a very limited subset of vocabulary to achieve something
>> > equivalent ? Or, considering the above examples, should we even
>> > bother ?
>> >
>> > Voilà. I do not particularly like to shock for the sake of it. But
>> > I feel that sometimes, someone has to shake the tree to bring back
>> > a sense of reality (or, in this case, gravity ?) in this geek
>> > world.
>>
>> The worst part of the above is that, in order to find the code that
>> contains the error (if you were able to competently read the code),
>> you have to do this:
>>
>> $ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep 'Could not find the main
>> class: org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Program will exit.'
>>
>> Then, finding that no files are found, I have to search for a part of it
>> :
>>
>> $ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep 'Could not find the main class:
>> '
>>
>> Again, no results.
>>
>> Maybe a bad example. How about this one?
>>
>> $ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep 'Unexpected end of stream
>> while reading opening client preface byte sequence.'
>>
>> ./java/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings.properties:connectionPreface
>> Parser.eos=Unexpected
>> end of stream while reading opening client preface byte sequence. Only
>> [{0}] bytes read.
>>
>> Hmm... okay, it's in a properties file. Maybe that gets used in a
>> source file? Let's search for that bundle key:
>>
>> $ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep 'connectionPrefaceParser.eos'
>>
>> ./output/classes/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings_fr.properties
>> ./output/classes/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings.properties
>> ./java/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings_fr.properties
>> ./java/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings.properties
>>
>> LOL, another good example: the bundle key isn't used anywhere.
>>
>> But the point is that locating error messages now requires two step:
>> find the resource bundle key, then look it up in the code.
>>
>> I'm not sure how to make that any better.
>>
>> - -chris
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - https://www.enigmail.net/
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>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Esther Montes <es...@gmail.com>.
Ola buenas noches nomás para darle mi número de cuenta ok gracias
El mié., 28 de nov. de 2018 10:58 AM, Christopher Schultz <
chris@christopherschultz.net> escribió:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> André,
>
> On 11/27/18 06:01, André Warnier (tomcat) wrote:
> > I must say that, although I tried to participate as much I could, I
> > have some reservations about this whole translation project. And
> > that is because most of the original messages which I have seen,
> > are really "technical" and not at all oriented to a general public
> > which may be using applications built on tomcat, but rather to a
> > public having to deal specifically with tomcat Java code and tomcat
> > configuration files. This public is going to need messages which
> > they can later connect to that code and/or to the configuration
> > files language and/or to the available documentation. And let's
> > face it : in terms of anything computer-related,
> > non-native-English-speakers (such as myself) lost out a long time
> > ago, and have had, and will have, to learn a modicum of English
> > technical computer language anyway, just to understand the basics
> > of their field of expertise. That is not what most of us would
> > culturally prefer, but it is a fact of life.
>
> I would argue that is an exercise in democratization: Tomcat can be a
> project that is actually accommodating to its users (administrators,
> programmers, etc.) instead of being hostile by using log messages that
> are unreadable.
>
> Note that Java itself has error messages translated into non-English
> languages for this very reason. Is there a huge between "io error" and
> "erreur d'entrée / sortie"? Not really. But I know that if I saw an
> error message in French, it would be a lot more difficult for me to do
> my job.
>
> > Now I really apologise to anyone who has already spent a great
> > amount of donated time to achieve the current levels of
> > translations.
> >
> > But, not to mince words, isn't this all in all and ultimately, a
> > big waste of time ?
> >
> > And shouldn't we be looking at more efficient ways of achieving the
> > real main goal of all this, which is basically to make sure that,
> > when something bad happens as a result of using tomcat, the people
> > in charge would get precise and understandable information about
> > what happened, and about where they can find more information
> > helping them correcting the issue ?
> >
> > I'll use an example : Suppose I'm one of these
> > non-native-English-speakers sysadmins or developers, and I find a
> > message in the tomcat logs, such as : "Could not find the main
> > class: org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Program will exit."
> > and I do not really understand what it says.
> >
> > I would go to https://translate.google.com, paste in the above
> > message, and instantly get : French : "Impossible de trouver la
> > classe principale: org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Le
> > programme va sortir."
> >
> > German : "Die Hauptklasse konnte nicht gefunden werden:
> > org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Das Programm wird
> > geschlossen."
> >
> > Spanish : "No se pudo encontrar la clase principal:
> > org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Programa saldrá."
> >
> > Polish : "Nie można znaleźć głównej klasy:
> > org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Program zostanie
> > zamknięty." (Note : I don't know anything about the Polish
> > language, just adding it for the fun; but also to ilustrate that
> > the same website provides dozens of target languages.)
> >
> > The point is : are any of the above worse/better than what we get
> > by this current quite time-consuming one-off (but to remain
> > relevant, regularly repeated and maintained) translation effort, in
> > the perpective of the potential users of these messages ?
> >
> > And if nowadays Google can do that, not only for tomcat but for a
> > host of fields and languages, should it not be possible to
> > integrate some of this logic directly into tomcat, which after all
> > needs a very limited subset of vocabulary to achieve something
> > equivalent ? Or, considering the above examples, should we even
> > bother ?
> >
> > Voilà. I do not particularly like to shock for the sake of it. But
> > I feel that sometimes, someone has to shake the tree to bring back
> > a sense of reality (or, in this case, gravity ?) in this geek
> > world.
>
> The worst part of the above is that, in order to find the code that
> contains the error (if you were able to competently read the code),
> you have to do this:
>
> $ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep 'Could not find the main
> class: org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Program will exit.'
>
> Then, finding that no files are found, I have to search for a part of it
> :
>
> $ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep 'Could not find the main class:
> '
>
> Again, no results.
>
> Maybe a bad example. How about this one?
>
> $ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep 'Unexpected end of stream
> while reading opening client preface byte sequence.'
>
> ./java/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings.properties:connectionPreface
> Parser.eos=Unexpected
> end of stream while reading opening client preface byte sequence. Only
> [{0}] bytes read.
>
> Hmm... okay, it's in a properties file. Maybe that gets used in a
> source file? Let's search for that bundle key:
>
> $ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep 'connectionPrefaceParser.eos'
>
> ./output/classes/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings_fr.properties
> ./output/classes/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings.properties
> ./java/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings_fr.properties
> ./java/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings.properties
>
> LOL, another good example: the bundle key isn't used anywhere.
>
> But the point is that locating error messages now requires two step:
> find the resource bundle key, then look it up in the code.
>
> I'm not sure how to make that any better.
>
> - -chris
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
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>
>
Re: Translations update
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
André,
On 11/27/18 06:01, André Warnier (tomcat) wrote:
> I must say that, although I tried to participate as much I could, I
> have some reservations about this whole translation project. And
> that is because most of the original messages which I have seen,
> are really "technical" and not at all oriented to a general public
> which may be using applications built on tomcat, but rather to a
> public having to deal specifically with tomcat Java code and tomcat
> configuration files. This public is going to need messages which
> they can later connect to that code and/or to the configuration
> files language and/or to the available documentation. And let's
> face it : in terms of anything computer-related,
> non-native-English-speakers (such as myself) lost out a long time
> ago, and have had, and will have, to learn a modicum of English
> technical computer language anyway, just to understand the basics
> of their field of expertise. That is not what most of us would
> culturally prefer, but it is a fact of life.
I would argue that is an exercise in democratization: Tomcat can be a
project that is actually accommodating to its users (administrators,
programmers, etc.) instead of being hostile by using log messages that
are unreadable.
Note that Java itself has error messages translated into non-English
languages for this very reason. Is there a huge between "io error" and
"erreur d'entrée / sortie"? Not really. But I know that if I saw an
error message in French, it would be a lot more difficult for me to do
my job.
> Now I really apologise to anyone who has already spent a great
> amount of donated time to achieve the current levels of
> translations.
>
> But, not to mince words, isn't this all in all and ultimately, a
> big waste of time ?
>
> And shouldn't we be looking at more efficient ways of achieving the
> real main goal of all this, which is basically to make sure that,
> when something bad happens as a result of using tomcat, the people
> in charge would get precise and understandable information about
> what happened, and about where they can find more information
> helping them correcting the issue ?
>
> I'll use an example : Suppose I'm one of these
> non-native-English-speakers sysadmins or developers, and I find a
> message in the tomcat logs, such as : "Could not find the main
> class: org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Program will exit."
> and I do not really understand what it says.
>
> I would go to https://translate.google.com, paste in the above
> message, and instantly get : French : "Impossible de trouver la
> classe principale: org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Le
> programme va sortir."
>
> German : "Die Hauptklasse konnte nicht gefunden werden:
> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Das Programm wird
> geschlossen."
>
> Spanish : "No se pudo encontrar la clase principal:
> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Programa saldrá."
>
> Polish : "Nie można znaleźć głównej klasy:
> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Program zostanie
> zamknięty." (Note : I don't know anything about the Polish
> language, just adding it for the fun; but also to ilustrate that
> the same website provides dozens of target languages.)
>
> The point is : are any of the above worse/better than what we get
> by this current quite time-consuming one-off (but to remain
> relevant, regularly repeated and maintained) translation effort, in
> the perpective of the potential users of these messages ?
>
> And if nowadays Google can do that, not only for tomcat but for a
> host of fields and languages, should it not be possible to
> integrate some of this logic directly into tomcat, which after all
> needs a very limited subset of vocabulary to achieve something
> equivalent ? Or, considering the above examples, should we even
> bother ?
>
> Voilà. I do not particularly like to shock for the sake of it. But
> I feel that sometimes, someone has to shake the tree to bring back
> a sense of reality (or, in this case, gravity ?) in this geek
> world.
The worst part of the above is that, in order to find the code that
contains the error (if you were able to competently read the code),
you have to do this:
$ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep 'Could not find the main
class: org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Program will exit.'
Then, finding that no files are found, I have to search for a part of it
:
$ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep 'Could not find the main class:
'
Again, no results.
Maybe a bad example. How about this one?
$ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep 'Unexpected end of stream
while reading opening client preface byte sequence.'
./java/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings.properties:connectionPreface
Parser.eos=Unexpected
end of stream while reading opening client preface byte sequence. Only
[{0}] bytes read.
Hmm... okay, it's in a properties file. Maybe that gets used in a
source file? Let's search for that bundle key:
$ find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 grep 'connectionPrefaceParser.eos'
./output/classes/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings_fr.properties
./output/classes/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings.properties
./java/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings_fr.properties
./java/org/apache/coyote/http2/LocalStrings.properties
LOL, another good example: the bundle key isn't used anywhere.
But the point is that locating error messages now requires two step:
find the resource bundle key, then look it up in the code.
I'm not sure how to make that any better.
- -chris
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Re: Translations update
Posted by "André Warnier (tomcat)" <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
On 27.11.2018 13:13, PÉNET Ludovic wrote:
> Le 27/11/2018 12:01, André Warnier a écrit :
>> On 26.11.2018 17:01, Christopher Schultz wrote:
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA256
>>>
>>> Rémy,
>>>
>>> On 11/26/18 10:05, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
>
>
> [...]
>
>>> A corollary of this is that the error messages and the documentation
>>> should agree with each other. Do we have French-language documentation
>>> for this stuff?
>>>
>> +1
>> I believe that this is the important point, which I tried to
>> illustrate with the tongue-in-cheek example above.
> +1
>
>>
>> I must say that, although I tried to participate as much I could, I
>> have some reservations about this whole translation project. And that
>> is because most of the original messages which I have seen, are really
>> "technical" and not at all oriented to a general public which may be
>> using applications built on tomcat, but rather to a public having to
>> deal specifically with tomcat Java code and tomcat configuration
>> files.
>> This public is going to need messages which they can later connect to
>> that code and/or to the configuration files language and/or to the
>> available documentation.
>> And let's face it : in terms of anything computer-related,
>> non-native-English-speakers (such as myself) lost out a long time ago,
>> and have had, and will have, to learn a modicum of English technical
>> computer language anyway, just to understand the basics of their field
>> of expertise.
>> That is not what most of us would culturally prefer, but it is a fact of life.
> +1
>
> [...]
>
>> I would go to https://translate.google.com, paste in the above
>> message, and instantly get :
>> French : "Impossible de trouver la classe principale:
>> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Le programme va sortir."
>>
>> German : "Die Hauptklasse konnte nicht gefunden werden:
>> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Das Programm wird geschlossen."
>>
>> Spanish : "No se pudo encontrar la clase principal:
>> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Programa saldrá."
>>
>> Polish : "Nie można znaleźć głównej klasy:
>> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Program zostanie zamknięty."
>> (Note : I don't know anything about the Polish language, just adding
>> it for the fun; but also to ilustrate that the same website provides
>> dozens of target languages.)
>>
>> The point is : are any of the above worse/better than what we get by
>> this current quite time-consuming one-off (but to remain relevant,
>> regularly repeated and maintained) translation effort, in the
>> perpective of the potential users of these messages ?
>
> IMHO, you took an easy example... In a lot of cases, Google Translate was of no help when
> trying to translate some more difficult strings. As pointed before, the original English
> sentences are sometimes, hem, not Oxford English or the vocabulary really too specific.
>
1) disclaimer : I do not have any employment, commercial or other relations with Google.
2) I did not really take an "easy example". Well yes, I did : it just happened to be easy
in the sense that it is was the first error message in a tomcat logfile that was lying
around on my laptop.
But what I did do, was to take a complete sentence out of the logfile, and not just one
word at a time, or a sentence containing "markers" (like the "{n}" things of these
prototype messages we just translated).
Google translate seems to work many times better when what you feed it, are complete
sentences instead of just words.
(Note: I did not really find this out, out of the blue. I found out because I was recently
doing some marketing-text translation of my own, from German to English to Spanish, and
although I know those languages reasonably, it was still a good help in merely
figuring-out the style of the translations for phrases, and some specialised vocabulary).
3) I have tried more tomcat log messages since, and the results seem to be relatively
consistent, as far as I am concerned.
Following are some additional examples taken from real tomcat logfiles, including some of
which I remember seeing while translating in POEditor : (I'll just put the French
translations this time, to stay in tune with the current thread; but I have checked the
translation in some additional languages, and they look of similar quality.)
"SEVERE [ajp-nio-8009-exec-7] org.apache.coyote.ajp.AjpMessage.processHeader Invalid
message received with signature 18245"
--> "SEVERE [ajp-nio-8009-exec-7] org.apache.coyote.ajp.AjpMessage.processHeader Message
non valide reçu avec la signature 18245"
"Note: further occurrences of HTTP header parsing errors will be logged at DEBUG level."
--> "Remarque: les autres erreurs d'analyse d'en-tête HTTP seront enregistrées au niveau
DEBUG."
"java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Invalid character found in method name. HTTP method
names must be tokens"
--> "java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: caractère non valide trouvé dans le nom de la
méthode. Les noms de méthodes HTTP doivent être des jetons."
(I admit that "jeton" may not be the best possible translation for "token" in the tomcat
context, but it is linguistically correct)
" org.apache.tomcat.util.http.parser.Cookie.logInvalidHeader A cookie header was received
[...] that contained an invalid cookie. That cookie will be ignored."
--> "org.apache.tomcat.util.http.parser.Cookie.logInvalidHeader Un en-tête de cookie
contenant un cookie non valide a été reçu. Ce cookie sera ignoré."
"org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Processor.service Error parsing HTTP request header"
--> "org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Processor.service Erreur lors de l'analyse de
l'en-tête de la requête HTTP"
"org.apache.coyote.ajp.AjpMessage.processHeader Invalid message received with signature 768"
--> "org.apache.coyote.ajp.AjpMessage.processHeader Message non valide reçu avec la
signature 768"
"INFO: Index is not optimized therefore skipping building spell check index for:
a_spellPhrase"
--> "INFO: l'index n'est pas optimisé. Par conséquent, ne pas créer d'index de
vérification orthographique pour: a_spellPhrase."
(Note: the astute reader will have noticed that this is not really a tomcat message, and
rather a Solr webapp application message; I just added it because it shows that "not
tomcat" translations are not so bad either..)
(which, incidentally, opens up another possibly interesting aspect : if such a suggested
mechanism was integrated in tomcat, it might even be able to translate, on-the-fly,
applications-generated messages, and not only tomcat's own, and at little additional
effort. How's that ?)
"INFO: start commit(optimize=false,waitFlush=true,waitSearcher=true,expungeDeletes=false)"
--> "INFO: commencer à valider (optimiser = false, waitFlush = true, waitSearcher = true,
expungeDeletes = false)"
(I tried this one, because it looked like a perfect possibility for the translator to go
badly wrong; but it seems to do pretty well, actually).
"INFO: Server startup in 769 ms"
--> "INFO: démarrage du serveur en 769 ms"
I'm running out tomcat logfile error messages to try with..
But I think that the above kind of speaks for itself, doesn't it ?
I did not "re-touch" any of the above translations, just copied and pasted them in 'as is'.
One aspect which I find interesting also : it apparently does not even attempt to
translate elements like class names or parameters, which is in fact quite nice in the
present case.
After seeing those, I must also confess a certain scepticism related to previous remarks
here from people having tried this before and being very disappointed. But maybe it was
quite a long time ago, that they really tried..
Note : it is not that I think that all these translations are perfect. I am just thinking
of all the effort that went into the recent POEditor translations, and all the future
efforts that will have to go into maintaining these translations for future versions of
tomcat, if we want them to remain accurate and relevant.
There were, as of yet, something like 2500 messages to translate, of which a good number
seem almost duplicates of others.
As additional development goes into tomcat, new messages will appear, which will need to
be translated to n languages, and probably a number of existing messages will become
obsolete (but will still stay in the list).
I don't really know if it would be possible to integrate some Google-translate-like code
into tomcat; but if it were possible, it seems to me that the rewards in terms of future
time /not spent/ would be largely worth the effort.
And if one thinks of possibly generalising this to other Apache projects ..
Maybe also, this does not have to be really "integrated" into tomcat. Think of a webapp,
manager-like, which you point to a tomcat logfile and tell "I want this in French, now".
Given the underlying translation "technology", and given that parsing Apache logfiles
should already have some existing code for it too..
> How many times did I prefix a command with LANG=C to obtain a message I can search on
> Google ?
> More than the finger count of all subscribers of this list, I guess...
>
> I thought the same way as André when starting to translate strings, but I was both happy
> to find a way to help a bit the project.
> If this kind of translation might not be most useful, translating manuals seems, however,
> more useful.
>
> Ludovic
>
> |
> | AVANT D'IMPRIMER, PENSEZ A L'ENVIRONNEMENT.
> |
>
>
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Re: Translations update
Posted by PÉNET Ludovic <l....@senat.fr>.
Le 27/11/2018 12:01, André Warnier a écrit :
> On 26.11.2018 17:01, Christopher Schultz wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>> Rémy,
>>
>> On 11/26/18 10:05, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
[...]
>> A corollary of this is that the error messages and the documentation
>> should agree with each other. Do we have French-language documentation
>> for this stuff?
>>
> +1
> I believe that this is the important point, which I tried to
> illustrate with the tongue-in-cheek example above.
+1
>
> I must say that, although I tried to participate as much I could, I
> have some reservations about this whole translation project. And that
> is because most of the original messages which I have seen, are really
> "technical" and not at all oriented to a general public which may be
> using applications built on tomcat, but rather to a public having to
> deal specifically with tomcat Java code and tomcat configuration
> files.
> This public is going to need messages which they can later connect to
> that code and/or to the configuration files language and/or to the
> available documentation.
> And let's face it : in terms of anything computer-related,
> non-native-English-speakers (such as myself) lost out a long time ago,
> and have had, and will have, to learn a modicum of English technical
> computer language anyway, just to understand the basics of their field
> of expertise.
> That is not what most of us would culturally prefer, but it is a fact
> of life.
+1
[...]
> I would go to https://translate.google.com, paste in the above
> message, and instantly get :
> French : "Impossible de trouver la classe principale:
> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Le programme va sortir."
>
> German : "Die Hauptklasse konnte nicht gefunden werden:
> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Das Programm wird geschlossen."
>
> Spanish : "No se pudo encontrar la clase principal:
> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Programa saldrá."
>
> Polish : "Nie można znaleźć głównej klasy:
> org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Program zostanie zamknięty."
> (Note : I don't know anything about the Polish language, just adding
> it for the fun; but also to ilustrate that the same website provides
> dozens of target languages.)
>
> The point is : are any of the above worse/better than what we get by
> this current quite time-consuming one-off (but to remain relevant,
> regularly repeated and maintained) translation effort, in the
> perpective of the potential users of these messages ?
IMHO, you took an easy example... In a lot of cases, Google Translate
was of no help when trying to translate some more difficult strings. As
pointed before, the original English sentences are sometimes, hem, not
Oxford English or the vocabulary really too specific.
How many times did I prefix a command with LANG=C to obtain a message I
can search on Google ?
More than the finger count of all subscribers of this list, I guess...
I thought the same way as André when starting to translate strings, but
I was both happy to find a way to help a bit the project.
If this kind of translation might not be most useful, translating
manuals seems, however, more useful.
Ludovic
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Woonsan Ko <wo...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 11:21 PM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 27/11/2018 13:19, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
>
> > Yes, I agree: it's not possible for non english speakers to use Tomcat, so
> > it did seem pointless. Mark still wanted to do the experiment, and since
> > the tool was easy and I had some time I did that French stuff. Anyway it's
> > done now, and people are sometimes happy to get i18n, so...
>
> Congrats to everyone involved in completing the French translations and
> in expanding the language coverage generally. And a special
> congratulations / thank you to Rémy who contributed over 1700 (no, that
> is not a typo!) translations.
Congrats! I personally celebrated myself for passing the 25% point of
the course in Korean translation today. :-)
Indeed I feel like running a marathon. Some finished; some ahead; some
behind. Well, we will get there anyway! :-D
>
> I do think this experiment has been worthwhile. Yes, there are some
> users who prefer English to their native language but there are also
> some users who find the translations helpful. The good thing is that it
> is easy to set Tomcat up to work either way.
>
> I wonder. Is there any value in any of the following:
>
> - The ability to change the language Tomcat uses while Tomcat is
> running? I'm thinking an option exposed via JMX and the Manager app.
Sounds interesting. If feasible with minimal effort, why not?
>
> - The ability to 'translate' messages. I'm thinking something that takes
> a message in one language, searches through the l10n strings to find a
> match and then provides the same message in an alternative language.
> Finding an efficient way to do this could be interesting.
Yes. Suppose someone reports a problem with some translated message.
We will need to easily figure out what's the corresponding default
local message from it.
It would be great if POEditor supports that.
Woonsan
>
> Mark
>
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Re: Translations update
Posted by "André Warnier (tomcat)" <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
On 27.11.2018 15:21, Mark Thomas wrote:
> On 27/11/2018 13:19, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
>
>> Yes, I agree: it's not possible for non english speakers to use Tomcat, so
>> it did seem pointless. Mark still wanted to do the experiment, and since
>> the tool was easy and I had some time I did that French stuff. Anyway it's
>> done now, and people are sometimes happy to get i18n, so...
>
> Congrats to everyone involved in completing the French translations and
> in expanding the language coverage generally. And a special
> congratulations / thank you to Rémy who contributed over 1700 (no, that
> is not a typo!) translations.
>
> I do think this experiment has been worthwhile.
Just as a note : I think so too.
But as far as I am concerned, the real usefulness was in showing how
dully/repetitive/uncertain such an exercise could be, how this could easily result in
imperfect/inconsistent translations (either stylistically, or technically) and in thinking
about how this process could possibly be made more agreeable/efficient/accurate/sustainable.
Yes, there are some
> users who prefer English to their native language but there are also
> some users who find the translations helpful.
No contest there.
What I am otherwise thinking is : there are many people who would like to look at an
original tomcat logfile, and understand much of it, but still have trouble with a
particular message or section. They might then want to quickly get a translation in their
own language, to check that they really got it, and then go back to the original, to pick
up the words in English that they will need, to search further (in Google, or in the
documentation). Because for these people, more often than not :
- changing the original language in which a tomcat server writes its logfile, will not be
an option (think a corporate server e.g.)
- or repeating the issue after changing the logging language will not be an option
- or searching anywhere with the translated (non-english) message will not be a practical
option.
The good thing is that it
> is easy to set Tomcat up to work either way.
>
> I wonder. Is there any value in any of the following:
>
> - The ability to change the language Tomcat uses while Tomcat is
> running? I'm thinking an option exposed via JMX and the Manager app.
>
> - The ability to 'translate' messages. I'm thinking something that takes
> a message in one language, searches through the l10n strings to find a
> match and then provides the same message in an alternative language.
> Finding an efficient way to do this could be interesting.
>
I will take this as a oh-so-cautious acknowledgement that there might be something into
the "translation-on-the-fly" idea. But I think that it is still not exploiting the
current available technology fully, in the sense that someone will still need to maintain
these l10n files in the future, and I don't know how many Rémy's you are going to find
(repeatedly) for doing that, at the tomcat level.
Allow me to be a bit megalomaniac maybe for an instant.
There are hundreds of projects on the Apache.org page. Of these, maybe up to 50% are
Java-based, so they use roughly the same techniques to log messages.
They are also all relatively within the same general "computer area" of course.
This would lead me to think that many of these projects may have
- the same kind of basic vocabulary
- the same kind of problematic, in terms of making technical info/warning/error messages,
accessible preferably in many languages.
- the same kind of issues with keeping these messages and translations up-to-date,
accurate, meaningful, consistent.
- the same kind of manpower issues to achieve that lofty goal
So why not be looking at creating a global "Apache thesaurus" containing all these
technical terms and their translations (starting with tomcat of course), and creating some
global plugin software that can handle such translations for all these projects ?
In other words, some kind of "log4j+i18n"..
Oh, wait : https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/JOSHUA/
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 27/11/2018 13:19, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
> Yes, I agree: it's not possible for non english speakers to use Tomcat, so
> it did seem pointless. Mark still wanted to do the experiment, and since
> the tool was easy and I had some time I did that French stuff. Anyway it's
> done now, and people are sometimes happy to get i18n, so...
Congrats to everyone involved in completing the French translations and
in expanding the language coverage generally. And a special
congratulations / thank you to Rémy who contributed over 1700 (no, that
is not a typo!) translations.
I do think this experiment has been worthwhile. Yes, there are some
users who prefer English to their native language but there are also
some users who find the translations helpful. The good thing is that it
is easy to set Tomcat up to work either way.
I wonder. Is there any value in any of the following:
- The ability to change the language Tomcat uses while Tomcat is
running? I'm thinking an option exposed via JMX and the Manager app.
- The ability to 'translate' messages. I'm thinking something that takes
a message in one language, searches through the l10n strings to find a
match and then provides the same message in an alternative language.
Finding an efficient way to do this could be interesting.
Mark
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Rémy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 12:01 PM André Warnier (tomcat) <aw...@ice-sa.com>
wrote:
> I must say that, although I tried to participate as much I could, I have
> some reservations
> about this whole translation project. And that is because most of the
> original messages
> which I have seen, are really "technical" and not at all oriented to a
> general public
> which may be using applications built on tomcat, but rather to a public
> having to deal
> specifically with tomcat Java code and tomcat configuration files.
> This public is going to need messages which they can later connect to that
> code and/or to
> the configuration files language and/or to the available documentation.
> And let's face it : in terms of anything computer-related,
> non-native-English-speakers
> (such as myself) lost out a long time ago, and have had, and will have, to
> learn a modicum
> of English technical computer language anyway, just to understand the
> basics of their
> field of expertise.
> That is not what most of us would culturally prefer, but it is a fact of
> life.
>
Yes, I agree: it's not possible for non english speakers to use Tomcat, so
it did seem pointless. Mark still wanted to do the experiment, and since
the tool was easy and I had some time I did that French stuff. Anyway it's
done now, and people are sometimes happy to get i18n, so...
Rémy
Re: Translations update
Posted by "André Warnier (tomcat)" <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
On 26.11.2018 17:01, Christopher Schultz wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> Rémy,
>
> On 11/26/18 10:05, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 3:46 PM Christopher Schultz <
>> chris@christopherschultz.net> wrote:
>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
>>>
>>> André,
>>>
>>> On 11/26/18 08:35, André Warnier (tomcat) wrote:
>>>> On 26.11.2018 13:29, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM Ludovic Pénet
>>>>> <l....@senat.fr> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Le vendredi 23 novembre 2018 à 23:51 +0100, Rémy Maucherat
>>>>>> a écrit :
>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas
>>>>>>> <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Done (well, close enough, a few tribes/ha remain) !
>>>>>> A single translation remains to be performed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jump to https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl and be
>>>>>> the one to complete the French translation. ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, you could have finished it, I was busy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now we can try to harmonize terms, fixes are then easy to do
>>>>> with the search feature
>>>>>
>>>>> Common ones we have right now: - "socket" (usually
>>>>> untranslated or cleverly omitted): ? - "endpoint" (for
>>>>> websockets, and for the Tomcat connectors, so possibly two
>>>>> different terms): "point d'entrée" ?
>>>>
>>>> That sounds like exactly the opposite of "endpoint" to me.
>>>> Although I must say that even in English, the vocabulary used
>>>> in some reference documents (in particular everything to do
>>>> with XML-based protocols, such as SOAP, SAML, OASIS and the
>>>> like) is sometimes mysterious and counter-intuitive. What about
>>>> "cible" here ? Or more literally, "point final" ?
>>>
>>> I disagree.
>>>
>>> An "endpoint" is a thing to which clients connect... an "entry
>>> point", as Rémy suggests.
>>>
>>
>> French and English constructs are the opposite in a lot of cases so
>> that's why I though that "point d'entrée" was pretty good, as you
>> stay the endpoint for the client is the "startingpoint" for the
>> server (but there it sounds really bad).
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> For "socket", "soquet" (like the piece in which you insert a
>>>> plug, or a lightbulb) sounds ok to me.
>>>
>>> This sounds okay to me, thought I don't know French at all. :)
>>>
>>>>> - "thread" (often it is untranslated elsewhere): "fil
>>>>> d'exécution" ? - "membership" (that's the clustering
>>>>> object): "gestionnaire de membres" ?
>>>>
>>>> "Membership" refers to "le fait d'être membre", no ? "adhésion"
>>>> ? (like "cluster members" -> "adhérents au cluster" (with the
>>>> appropriate French pronounciation for "cleustère") :-)
>>>
>>> What would you call a list of people who belong to a certain
>>> fancy club or society? That's the word that should be used,
>>> here.
>>>
>>
>> So ... In that case it would simply be "liste de membres". Which
>> after a quick check actually looks quite good in the context of the
>> Tribes strings.
>>
>> I have another difficult one for Tribes: that "replicated map"
>> which should be ?? "structure répliquée" ? I used various terms for
>> that annoying one ...
>
> I'm a bug fan of naming things what they *mean*, not what they are.
>
> For example, seeing this in code:
>
> Map<String,Class<?>> mapOfStringToClass = ...;
>
> Is totally worthless from a self-documenting code perspective. This is
> much better:
>
> Map<String,Class<?>> beanImplementationClasses = ...;
>
or, even better from a French perspective :
Carte<Chaine,Classe<?>> classedImplementationdHaricot = ...;
;-)
> I think we should do the same thing with our descriptions, here.
>
> So, for example, the fact that it's called "replicatedMap" in English
> probably doesn't matter. The "replicated" part is important. The "map"
> probably isn't. It could be any collection of objects. So, "replicated
> structure" seems reasonable, here.
>
> On the other hand, when saying "something is wrong with the
> MacGuffin[1]", translating the word "MacGuffin" may make things worse.
> If you want to know how to look it up in the documentation and/or
> code, it needs to agree with what's there. Since the code is
> (nominally) in English, the term might need to be in English.
>
> A corollary of this is that the error messages and the documentation
> should agree with each other. Do we have French-language documentation
> for this stuff?
>
+1
I believe that this is the important point, which I tried to illustrate with the
tongue-in-cheek example above.
I must say that, although I tried to participate as much I could, I have some reservations
about this whole translation project. And that is because most of the original messages
which I have seen, are really "technical" and not at all oriented to a general public
which may be using applications built on tomcat, but rather to a public having to deal
specifically with tomcat Java code and tomcat configuration files.
This public is going to need messages which they can later connect to that code and/or to
the configuration files language and/or to the available documentation.
And let's face it : in terms of anything computer-related, non-native-English-speakers
(such as myself) lost out a long time ago, and have had, and will have, to learn a modicum
of English technical computer language anyway, just to understand the basics of their
field of expertise.
That is not what most of us would culturally prefer, but it is a fact of life.
Now I really apologise to anyone who has already spent a great amount of donated time to
achieve the current levels of translations.
But, not to mince words, isn't this all in all and ultimately, a big waste of time ?
And shouldn't we be looking at more efficient ways of achieving the real main goal of all
this, which is basically to make sure that, when something bad happens as a result of
using tomcat, the people in charge would get precise and understandable information about
what happened, and about where they can find more information helping them correcting the
issue ?
I'll use an example :
Suppose I'm one of these non-native-English-speakers sysadmins or developers, and I find a
message in the tomcat logs, such as :
"Could not find the main class: org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Program will exit."
and I do not really understand what it says.
I would go to https://translate.google.com, paste in the above message, and instantly get :
French : "Impossible de trouver la classe principale:
org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Le programme va sortir."
German : "Die Hauptklasse konnte nicht gefunden werden:
org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Das Programm wird geschlossen."
Spanish : "No se pudo encontrar la clase principal: org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap.
Programa saldrá."
Polish : "Nie można znaleźć głównej klasy: org.apache.catalina.startup.Bootstrap. Program
zostanie zamknięty."
(Note : I don't know anything about the Polish language, just adding it for the fun; but
also to ilustrate that the same website provides dozens of target languages.)
The point is : are any of the above worse/better than what we get by this current quite
time-consuming one-off (but to remain relevant, regularly repeated and maintained)
translation effort, in the perpective of the potential users of these messages ?
And if nowadays Google can do that, not only for tomcat but for a host of fields and
languages, should it not be possible to integrate some of this logic directly into tomcat,
which after all needs a very limited subset of vocabulary to achieve something equivalent
? Or, considering the above examples, should we even bother ?
Voilà. I do not particularly like to shock for the sake of it. But I feel that sometimes,
someone has to shake the tree to bring back a sense of reality (or, in this case, gravity
?) in this geek world.
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
Rémy,
On 11/26/18 10:05, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 3:46 PM Christopher Schultz <
> chris@christopherschultz.net> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
>>
>> André,
>>
>> On 11/26/18 08:35, André Warnier (tomcat) wrote:
>>> On 26.11.2018 13:29, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
>>>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM Ludovic Pénet
>>>> <l....@senat.fr> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Le vendredi 23 novembre 2018 à 23:51 +0100, Rémy Maucherat
>>>>> a écrit :
>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas
>>>>>> <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Done (well, close enough, a few tribes/ha remain) !
>>>>> A single translation remains to be performed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jump to https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl and be
>>>>> the one to complete the French translation. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ok, you could have finished it, I was busy.
>>>>
>>>> Now we can try to harmonize terms, fixes are then easy to do
>>>> with the search feature
>>>>
>>>> Common ones we have right now: - "socket" (usually
>>>> untranslated or cleverly omitted): ? - "endpoint" (for
>>>> websockets, and for the Tomcat connectors, so possibly two
>>>> different terms): "point d'entrée" ?
>>>
>>> That sounds like exactly the opposite of "endpoint" to me.
>>> Although I must say that even in English, the vocabulary used
>>> in some reference documents (in particular everything to do
>>> with XML-based protocols, such as SOAP, SAML, OASIS and the
>>> like) is sometimes mysterious and counter-intuitive. What about
>>> "cible" here ? Or more literally, "point final" ?
>>
>> I disagree.
>>
>> An "endpoint" is a thing to which clients connect... an "entry
>> point", as Rémy suggests.
>>
>
> French and English constructs are the opposite in a lot of cases so
> that's why I though that "point d'entrée" was pretty good, as you
> stay the endpoint for the client is the "startingpoint" for the
> server (but there it sounds really bad).
>
>
>>
>>> For "socket", "soquet" (like the piece in which you insert a
>>> plug, or a lightbulb) sounds ok to me.
>>
>> This sounds okay to me, thought I don't know French at all. :)
>>
>>>> - "thread" (often it is untranslated elsewhere): "fil
>>>> d'exécution" ? - "membership" (that's the clustering
>>>> object): "gestionnaire de membres" ?
>>>
>>> "Membership" refers to "le fait d'être membre", no ? "adhésion"
>>> ? (like "cluster members" -> "adhérents au cluster" (with the
>>> appropriate French pronounciation for "cleustère") :-)
>>
>> What would you call a list of people who belong to a certain
>> fancy club or society? That's the word that should be used,
>> here.
>>
>
> So ... In that case it would simply be "liste de membres". Which
> after a quick check actually looks quite good in the context of the
> Tribes strings.
>
> I have another difficult one for Tribes: that "replicated map"
> which should be ?? "structure répliquée" ? I used various terms for
> that annoying one ...
I'm a bug fan of naming things what they *mean*, not what they are.
For example, seeing this in code:
Map<String,Class<?>> mapOfStringToClass = ...;
Is totally worthless from a self-documenting code perspective. This is
much better:
Map<String,Class<?>> beanImplementationClasses = ...;
I think we should do the same thing with our descriptions, here.
So, for example, the fact that it's called "replicatedMap" in English
probably doesn't matter. The "replicated" part is important. The "map"
probably isn't. It could be any collection of objects. So, "replicated
structure" seems reasonable, here.
On the other hand, when saying "something is wrong with the
MacGuffin[1]", translating the word "MacGuffin" may make things worse.
If you want to know how to look it up in the documentation and/or
code, it needs to agree with what's there. Since the code is
(nominally) in English, the term might need to be in English.
A corollary of this is that the error messages and the documentation
should agree with each other. Do we have French-language documentation
for this stuff?
>>> (Sorry for the missing c cédille, can't type it here) (PTHT =
>>> Protocol de Transport Hyper-Texte)
>>
>> HTTP should always be spelled HTTP and never PTHT, just like UTC
>> is always spelled UTC, even in English (where the acronym makes
>> no sense to Englist speakers).
>>
>> I think maybe you were kidding, but ... just in case :)
>>
>
> We were super serious, like for Apache Matou :)
:)
I like that as a (silly) name (Apache Dead?), but didn't get the
actual joke. :(
- -chris
[1] https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacGuffin
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Woonsan Ko <wo...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 10:05 AM Rémy Maucherat <re...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 3:46 PM Christopher Schultz <
> chris@christopherschultz.net> wrote:
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA256
> >
> > André,
> >
> > On 11/26/18 08:35, André Warnier (tomcat) wrote:
> > > On 26.11.2018 13:29, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
> > >> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM Ludovic Pénet <l....@senat.fr>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Le vendredi 23 novembre 2018 à 23:51 +0100, Rémy Maucherat a
> > >>> écrit :
> > >>>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas
> > >>>> <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Done (well, close enough, a few tribes/ha remain) !
> > >>> A single translation remains to be performed.
> > >>>
> > >>> Jump to https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl and be the
> > >>> one to complete the French translation. ;-)
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Ok, you could have finished it, I was busy.
> > >>
> > >> Now we can try to harmonize terms, fixes are then easy to do with
> > >> the search feature
> > >>
> > >> Common ones we have right now: - "socket" (usually untranslated
> > >> or cleverly omitted): ? - "endpoint" (for websockets, and for the
> > >> Tomcat connectors, so possibly two different terms): "point
> > >> d'entrée" ?
> > >
> > > That sounds like exactly the opposite of "endpoint" to me. Although
> > > I must say that even in English, the vocabulary used in some
> > > reference documents (in particular everything to do with XML-based
> > > protocols, such as SOAP, SAML, OASIS and the like) is sometimes
> > > mysterious and counter-intuitive. What about "cible" here ? Or more
> > > literally, "point final" ?
> >
> > I disagree.
> >
> > An "endpoint" is a thing to which clients connect... an "entry point",
> > as Rémy suggests.
> >
>
> French and English constructs are the opposite in a lot of cases so that's
> why I though that "point d'entrée" was pretty good, as you stay the
> endpoint for the client is the "startingpoint" for the server (but there it
> sounds really bad).
>
>
> >
> > > For "socket", "soquet" (like the piece in which you insert a plug,
> > > or a lightbulb) sounds ok to me.
> >
> > This sounds okay to me, thought I don't know French at all. :)
> >
> > >> - "thread" (often it is untranslated elsewhere): "fil
> > >> d'exécution" ? - "membership" (that's the clustering object):
> > >> "gestionnaire de membres" ?
> > >
> > > "Membership" refers to "le fait d'être membre", no ? "adhésion" ?
> > > (like "cluster members" -> "adhérents au cluster" (with the
> > > appropriate French pronounciation for "cleustère") :-)
> >
> > What would you call a list of people who belong to a certain fancy
> > club or society? That's the word that should be used, here.
> >
>
> So ... In that case it would simply be "liste de membres". Which after a
> quick check actually looks quite good in the context of the Tribes strings.
>
> I have another difficult one for Tribes: that "replicated map" which should
> be ?? "structure répliquée" ?
> I used various terms for that annoying one ...
>
>
> >
> > >> - "dispatch"/"dispatcher" (for the Servlet request dispatcher):
> > >> ?
> > >>
> > >
> > > dépêcher / dépêcheur ?
> > >
> > >> And I just saw it is really "connexion" and not "connection".
> > >> Oooops, I thought both were ok. I guess it's the same kind of
> > >> mistake with English-UK vs English-US, where I usually hate the
> > >> UK style (except in HarryP and Discworld, it's part of the charm
> > >> I suppose).
> > >>
> > >
> > > Maybe a note : the target audience of most of these messages is not
> > > the members of the Académie or the jury of the Prix Goncourt. Its
> > > is programmers, sysadmins and qualified tomcat/webservers users.
> > > The translations should be helpful to them, to get a first idea of
> > > the issue and be able to search later in the on-line documentation.
> > > Which happens to be only available/up-to-date/searchable in
> > > English, no ?
> > >
> > > So I believe that a translation such as "La requête PTHT recue sur
> > > le soquet du connecteur de toile a été dépêchée au conducteur du
> > > groupe d'adhérents" may be stylistically correct, but ultimately
> > > quite counter-productive.
> > >
> > > (Sorry for the missing c cédille, can't type it here) (PTHT =
> > > Protocol de Transport Hyper-Texte)
> >
> > HTTP should always be spelled HTTP and never PTHT, just like UTC is
> > always spelled UTC, even in English (where the acronym makes no sense
> > to Englist speakers).
> >
> > I think maybe you were kidding, but ... just in case :)
> >
>
> We were super serious, like for Apache Matou :)
:-)
I found this sentence from google and used their translation service,
just out of curiosity and out of context:
"Le matou n'est probablement pas devenu plus exigeant en termes
gustatifs." [Le Monde, 2002]
The matou won't be too demanding in The World! ;-)
Woonsan
>
> Rémy
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Rémy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 3:46 PM Christopher Schultz <
chris@christopherschultz.net> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> André,
>
> On 11/26/18 08:35, André Warnier (tomcat) wrote:
> > On 26.11.2018 13:29, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
> >> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM Ludovic Pénet <l....@senat.fr>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Le vendredi 23 novembre 2018 à 23:51 +0100, Rémy Maucherat a
> >>> écrit :
> >>>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas
> >>>> <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Done (well, close enough, a few tribes/ha remain) !
> >>> A single translation remains to be performed.
> >>>
> >>> Jump to https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl and be the
> >>> one to complete the French translation. ;-)
> >>>
> >>
> >> Ok, you could have finished it, I was busy.
> >>
> >> Now we can try to harmonize terms, fixes are then easy to do with
> >> the search feature
> >>
> >> Common ones we have right now: - "socket" (usually untranslated
> >> or cleverly omitted): ? - "endpoint" (for websockets, and for the
> >> Tomcat connectors, so possibly two different terms): "point
> >> d'entrée" ?
> >
> > That sounds like exactly the opposite of "endpoint" to me. Although
> > I must say that even in English, the vocabulary used in some
> > reference documents (in particular everything to do with XML-based
> > protocols, such as SOAP, SAML, OASIS and the like) is sometimes
> > mysterious and counter-intuitive. What about "cible" here ? Or more
> > literally, "point final" ?
>
> I disagree.
>
> An "endpoint" is a thing to which clients connect... an "entry point",
> as Rémy suggests.
>
French and English constructs are the opposite in a lot of cases so that's
why I though that "point d'entrée" was pretty good, as you stay the
endpoint for the client is the "startingpoint" for the server (but there it
sounds really bad).
>
> > For "socket", "soquet" (like the piece in which you insert a plug,
> > or a lightbulb) sounds ok to me.
>
> This sounds okay to me, thought I don't know French at all. :)
>
> >> - "thread" (often it is untranslated elsewhere): "fil
> >> d'exécution" ? - "membership" (that's the clustering object):
> >> "gestionnaire de membres" ?
> >
> > "Membership" refers to "le fait d'être membre", no ? "adhésion" ?
> > (like "cluster members" -> "adhérents au cluster" (with the
> > appropriate French pronounciation for "cleustère") :-)
>
> What would you call a list of people who belong to a certain fancy
> club or society? That's the word that should be used, here.
>
So ... In that case it would simply be "liste de membres". Which after a
quick check actually looks quite good in the context of the Tribes strings.
I have another difficult one for Tribes: that "replicated map" which should
be ?? "structure répliquée" ?
I used various terms for that annoying one ...
>
> >> - "dispatch"/"dispatcher" (for the Servlet request dispatcher):
> >> ?
> >>
> >
> > dépêcher / dépêcheur ?
> >
> >> And I just saw it is really "connexion" and not "connection".
> >> Oooops, I thought both were ok. I guess it's the same kind of
> >> mistake with English-UK vs English-US, where I usually hate the
> >> UK style (except in HarryP and Discworld, it's part of the charm
> >> I suppose).
> >>
> >
> > Maybe a note : the target audience of most of these messages is not
> > the members of the Académie or the jury of the Prix Goncourt. Its
> > is programmers, sysadmins and qualified tomcat/webservers users.
> > The translations should be helpful to them, to get a first idea of
> > the issue and be able to search later in the on-line documentation.
> > Which happens to be only available/up-to-date/searchable in
> > English, no ?
> >
> > So I believe that a translation such as "La requête PTHT recue sur
> > le soquet du connecteur de toile a été dépêchée au conducteur du
> > groupe d'adhérents" may be stylistically correct, but ultimately
> > quite counter-productive.
> >
> > (Sorry for the missing c cédille, can't type it here) (PTHT =
> > Protocol de Transport Hyper-Texte)
>
> HTTP should always be spelled HTTP and never PTHT, just like UTC is
> always spelled UTC, even in English (where the acronym makes no sense
> to Englist speakers).
>
> I think maybe you were kidding, but ... just in case :)
>
We were super serious, like for Apache Matou :)
Rémy
Re: Translations update
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
André,
On 11/26/18 08:35, André Warnier (tomcat) wrote:
> On 26.11.2018 13:29, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM Ludovic Pénet <l....@senat.fr>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Le vendredi 23 novembre 2018 à 23:51 +0100, Rémy Maucherat a
>>> écrit :
>>>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas
>>>> <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Done (well, close enough, a few tribes/ha remain) !
>>> A single translation remains to be performed.
>>>
>>> Jump to https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl and be the
>>> one to complete the French translation. ;-)
>>>
>>
>> Ok, you could have finished it, I was busy.
>>
>> Now we can try to harmonize terms, fixes are then easy to do with
>> the search feature
>>
>> Common ones we have right now: - "socket" (usually untranslated
>> or cleverly omitted): ? - "endpoint" (for websockets, and for the
>> Tomcat connectors, so possibly two different terms): "point
>> d'entrée" ?
>
> That sounds like exactly the opposite of "endpoint" to me. Although
> I must say that even in English, the vocabulary used in some
> reference documents (in particular everything to do with XML-based
> protocols, such as SOAP, SAML, OASIS and the like) is sometimes
> mysterious and counter-intuitive. What about "cible" here ? Or more
> literally, "point final" ?
I disagree.
An "endpoint" is a thing to which clients connect... an "entry point",
as Rémy suggests.
> For "socket", "soquet" (like the piece in which you insert a plug,
> or a lightbulb) sounds ok to me.
This sounds okay to me, thought I don't know French at all. :)
>> - "thread" (often it is untranslated elsewhere): "fil
>> d'exécution" ? - "membership" (that's the clustering object):
>> "gestionnaire de membres" ?
>
> "Membership" refers to "le fait d'être membre", no ? "adhésion" ?
> (like "cluster members" -> "adhérents au cluster" (with the
> appropriate French pronounciation for "cleustère") :-)
What would you call a list of people who belong to a certain fancy
club or society? That's the word that should be used, here.
>> - "dispatch"/"dispatcher" (for the Servlet request dispatcher):
>> ?
>>
>
> dépêcher / dépêcheur ?
>
>> And I just saw it is really "connexion" and not "connection".
>> Oooops, I thought both were ok. I guess it's the same kind of
>> mistake with English-UK vs English-US, where I usually hate the
>> UK style (except in HarryP and Discworld, it's part of the charm
>> I suppose).
>>
>
> Maybe a note : the target audience of most of these messages is not
> the members of the Académie or the jury of the Prix Goncourt. Its
> is programmers, sysadmins and qualified tomcat/webservers users.
> The translations should be helpful to them, to get a first idea of
> the issue and be able to search later in the on-line documentation.
> Which happens to be only available/up-to-date/searchable in
> English, no ?
>
> So I believe that a translation such as "La requête PTHT recue sur
> le soquet du connecteur de toile a été dépêchée au conducteur du
> groupe d'adhérents" may be stylistically correct, but ultimately
> quite counter-productive.
>
> (Sorry for the missing c cédille, can't type it here) (PTHT =
> Protocol de Transport Hyper-Texte)
HTTP should always be spelled HTTP and never PTHT, just like UTC is
always spelled UTC, even in English (where the acronym makes no sense
to Englist speakers).
I think maybe you were kidding, but ... just in case :)
- -chris
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Re: Translations update
Posted by "André Warnier (tomcat)" <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
On 26.11.2018 15:38, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
>>> > >- "dispatch"/"dispatcher" (for the Servlet request dispatcher): ?
>>> > >
>> >
>> >dépêcher / dépêcheur ?
>> >
> That "répartiteur" from Emmanuel sounds better in theory, will have to see
> in context.
>
>
+1 for "répartiteur".
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Rémy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 2:35 PM André Warnier (tomcat) <aw...@ice-sa.com>
wrote:
> On 26.11.2018 13:29, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
> > On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM Ludovic Pénet <l....@senat.fr> wrote:
> >
> >> Le vendredi 23 novembre 2018 à 23:51 +0100, Rémy Maucherat a écrit :
> >>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Done (well, close enough, a few tribes/ha remain) !
> >> A single translation remains to be performed.
> >>
> >> Jump to https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl and be the one to
> >> complete the French translation. ;-)
> >>
> >
> > Ok, you could have finished it, I was busy.
> >
> > Now we can try to harmonize terms, fixes are then easy to do with the
> > search feature
> >
> > Common ones we have right now:
> > - "socket" (usually untranslated or cleverly omitted): ?
> > - "endpoint" (for websockets, and for the Tomcat connectors, so possibly
> > two different terms): "point d'entrée" ?
>
> That sounds like exactly the opposite of "endpoint" to me.
> Although I must say that even in English, the vocabulary used in some
> reference documents
> (in particular everything to do with XML-based protocols, such as SOAP,
> SAML, OASIS and
> the like) is sometimes mysterious and counter-intuitive.
> What about "cible" here ?
> Or more literally, "point final" ?
>
There are two contexts for it:
- The "NIO Endpoint" (or APR, etc) that is the backend of the Tomcat
connector, it accepts the sockets and deals with the low level stuff from
there
- The WebSocket endpoint javax.websocket.RemoteEndpoint
They can have a different word, actually.
>
> For "socket", "soquet" (like the piece in which you insert a plug, or a
> lightbulb) sounds
> ok to me.
>
Hum, ok, let's forget about this one.
>
> > - "thread" (often it is untranslated elsewhere): "fil d'exécution" ?
> > - "membership" (that's the clustering object): "gestionnaire de membres"
> ?
>
> "Membership" refers to "le fait d'être membre", no ? "adhésion" ?
> (like "cluster members" -> "adhérents au cluster" (with the appropriate
> French
> pronounciation for "cleustère") :-)
>
"adhérents" sounds good good and fits some most likely, "appartenance"
likely fits some others. I'll need to look in context.
>
> > - "dispatch"/"dispatcher" (for the Servlet request dispatcher): ?
> >
>
> dépêcher / dépêcheur ?
>
That "répartiteur" from Emmanuel sounds better in theory, will have to see
in context.
>
> > And I just saw it is really "connexion" and not "connection". Oooops, I
> > thought both were ok. I guess it's the same kind of mistake with
> English-UK
> > vs English-US, where I usually hate the UK style (except in HarryP and
> > Discworld, it's part of the charm I suppose).
> >
>
> Maybe a note : the target audience of most of these messages is not the
> members of the
> Académie or the jury of the Prix Goncourt. Its is programmers, sysadmins
> and qualified
> tomcat/webservers users. The translations should be helpful to them, to
> get a first idea
> of the issue and be able to search later in the on-line documentation.
> Which happens to
> be only available/up-to-date/searchable in English, no ?
>
> So I believe that a translation such as "La requête PTHT recue sur le
> soquet du connecteur
> de toile a été dépêchée au conducteur du groupe d'adhérents" may be
> stylistically correct,
> but ultimately quite counter-productive.
>
> (Sorry for the missing c cédille, can't type it here)
> (PTHT = Protocol de Transport Hyper-Texte)
>
PTHT :D
So I was fine with "fil d'exécution" but it's more complex too than
untranslated. So "thread/socket" it is.
>
> This being said, all these translations leave out what is really the main
> theme here :
> tomcat. So what about a new name too ? what about "matou" ?
> Or does this require a fourchette ?
>
+1 for "Apache Matou" since it's so funny :) We need to apply for a
trademark asap.
Rémy
Re: Translations update
Posted by PÉNET Ludovic <l....@senat.fr>.
Le 27/11/2018 11:51, Rémy Maucherat a écrit :
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 5:31 PM André Warnier (tomcat) <aw...@ice-sa.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 26.11.2018 15:01, Ludovic Pénet wrote:
>> >>> - "endpoint" (for websockets, and for the Tomcat connectors, so
>> >> >possibly
>> >>> >>two different terms): "point d'entrée" ?
>> >> >
>> >> >That sounds like exactly the opposite of "endpoint" to me.
>> >> >Although I must say that even in English, the vocabulary used in some
>> >> >reference documents
>> >> >(in particular everything to do with XML-based protocols, such as SOAP,
>> >> >SAML, OASIS and
>> >> >the like) is sometimes mysterious and counter-intuitive.
>> >> >What about "cible" here ?
>> >> >Or more literally, "point final" ?
>> > Terminaison ?
>> >
>> >
>> >> >
>> +1 for "terminaison", else untranslated "endpoint".
>>
>
> Ok for "terminaison" in the end, updated.
>
> Kinda meh for "répartiteur", which sounds ok in theory but not so great
> in
> practice.
>
> Example:
> The dispatcher returned from the ServletContext does not support
> asynchronous dispatching
> ->
> Le répartiteur de Servlets retourné par le ServletContext ne supporte
> pas
> de répartition (???) asynchrone
> Looks like a good candidate for untranslated now ...
I might claim for this one. :-)
"Le répartiteur de Servlets retourné par le ServletContext n'est pas
capable de fonctionner de manière asynchrone"
might be better.
@+!
Ludovic
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Rémy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 5:31 PM André Warnier (tomcat) <aw...@ice-sa.com>
wrote:
> On 26.11.2018 15:01, Ludovic Pénet wrote:
> >>> - "endpoint" (for websockets, and for the Tomcat connectors, so
> >> >possibly
> >>> >>two different terms): "point d'entrée" ?
> >> >
> >> >That sounds like exactly the opposite of "endpoint" to me.
> >> >Although I must say that even in English, the vocabulary used in some
> >> >reference documents
> >> >(in particular everything to do with XML-based protocols, such as SOAP,
> >> >SAML, OASIS and
> >> >the like) is sometimes mysterious and counter-intuitive.
> >> >What about "cible" here ?
> >> >Or more literally, "point final" ?
> > Terminaison ?
> >
> >
> >> >
> +1 for "terminaison", else untranslated "endpoint".
>
Ok for "terminaison" in the end, updated.
Kinda meh for "répartiteur", which sounds ok in theory but not so great in
practice.
Example:
The dispatcher returned from the ServletContext does not support
asynchronous dispatching
->
Le répartiteur de Servlets retourné par le ServletContext ne supporte pas
de répartition (???) asynchrone
Looks like a good candidate for untranslated now ...
And for Tribes membership, I'm updating to "registre de membres" rather
than "liste", it sounds more service-ish like it actually does something
rather than being dumb and static.
Rémy
Re: Translations update
Posted by "André Warnier (tomcat)" <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
On 26.11.2018 15:01, Ludovic Pénet wrote:
>>> - "endpoint" (for websockets, and for the Tomcat connectors, so
>> >possibly
>>> >>two different terms): "point d'entrée" ?
>> >
>> >That sounds like exactly the opposite of "endpoint" to me.
>> >Although I must say that even in English, the vocabulary used in some
>> >reference documents
>> >(in particular everything to do with XML-based protocols, such as SOAP,
>> >SAML, OASIS and
>> >the like) is sometimes mysterious and counter-intuitive.
>> >What about "cible" here ?
>> >Or more literally, "point final" ?
> Terminaison ?
>
>
>> >
+1 for "terminaison", else untranslated "endpoint".
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Ludovic Pénet <l....@senat.fr>.
Le 26 novembre 2018 14:35:10 GMT+01:00, "André Warnier (tomcat)" <aw...@ice-sa.com> a écrit :
>On 26.11.2018 13:29, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM Ludovic Pénet <l....@senat.fr>
>wrote:
>>
>>> Le vendredi 23 novembre 2018 à 23:51 +0100, Rémy Maucherat a écrit :
>>>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Done (well, close enough, a few tribes/ha remain) !
>>> A single translation remains to be performed.
>>>
>>> Jump to https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl and be the one
>to
>>> complete the French translation. ;-)
>>>
>>
>> Ok, you could have finished it, I was busy.
I did not feel capable of translating this last one, lacking context.
>>
>> Now we can try to harmonize terms, fixes are then easy to do with the
>> search feature
>>
>> Common ones we have right now:
>> - "socket" (usually untranslated or cleverly omitted): ?
Well, IMHO, I never see this one translated
So, we would be better sticking with "socket". If you prefer a translation, I suggest also including ("socket") next to it.
>> - "endpoint" (for websockets, and for the Tomcat connectors, so
>possibly
>> two different terms): "point d'entrée" ?
>
>That sounds like exactly the opposite of "endpoint" to me.
>Although I must say that even in English, the vocabulary used in some
>reference documents
>(in particular everything to do with XML-based protocols, such as SOAP,
>SAML, OASIS and
>the like) is sometimes mysterious and counter-intuitive.
>What about "cible" here ?
>Or more literally, "point final" ?
Terminaison ?
>
>For "socket", "soquet" (like the piece in which you insert a plug, or a
>lightbulb) sounds
>ok to me.
>
>> - "thread" (often it is untranslated elsewhere): "fil d'exécution" ?
Same remark.
>> - "membership" (that's the clustering object): "gestionnaire de
>membres" ?
>
>"Membership" refers to "le fait d'être membre", no ? "adhésion" ?
>(like "cluster members" -> "adhérents au cluster" (with the appropriate
>French
>pronounciation for "cleustère") :-)
Appartenance, for me.
>> - "dispatch"/"dispatcher" (for the Servlet request dispatcher): ?
>>
>
>dépêcher / dépêcheur ?
Répartition / Répartiteur. Same remark on the original word inclusion
>
>> And I just saw it is really "connexion" and not "connection". Oooops,
>I
>> thought both were ok. I guess it's the same kind of mistake with
>English-UK
>> vs English-US, where I usually hate the UK style (except in HarryP
>and
>> Discworld, it's part of the charm I suppose).
>>
>
>Maybe a note : the target audience of most of these messages is not the
>members of the
>Académie or the jury of the Prix Goncourt. Its is programmers,
>sysadmins and qualified
>tomcat/webservers users. The translations should be helpful to them,
>to get a first idea
>of the issue and be able to search later in the on-line documentation.
>Which happens to
>be only available/up-to-date/searchable in English, no ?
>
>So I believe that a translation such as "La requête PTHT recue sur le
>soquet du connecteur
>de toile a été dépêchée au conducteur du groupe d'adhérents" may be
>stylistically correct,
>but ultimately quite counter-productive.
+1000
>
>(Sorry for the missing c cédille, can't type it here)
>(PTHT = Protocol de Transport Hyper-Texte)
>
>This being said, all these translations leave out what is really the
>main theme here :
>tomcat. So what about a new name too ? what about "matou" ?
>Or does this require a fourchette ?
;-)
Ludovic
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Re: Translations update
Posted by "André Warnier (tomcat)" <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
On 26.11.2018 13:29, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM Ludovic Pénet <l....@senat.fr> wrote:
>
>> Le vendredi 23 novembre 2018 à 23:51 +0100, Rémy Maucherat a écrit :
>>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
>>>>
>>>
>>> Done (well, close enough, a few tribes/ha remain) !
>> A single translation remains to be performed.
>>
>> Jump to https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl and be the one to
>> complete the French translation. ;-)
>>
>
> Ok, you could have finished it, I was busy.
>
> Now we can try to harmonize terms, fixes are then easy to do with the
> search feature
>
> Common ones we have right now:
> - "socket" (usually untranslated or cleverly omitted): ?
> - "endpoint" (for websockets, and for the Tomcat connectors, so possibly
> two different terms): "point d'entrée" ?
That sounds like exactly the opposite of "endpoint" to me.
Although I must say that even in English, the vocabulary used in some reference documents
(in particular everything to do with XML-based protocols, such as SOAP, SAML, OASIS and
the like) is sometimes mysterious and counter-intuitive.
What about "cible" here ?
Or more literally, "point final" ?
For "socket", "soquet" (like the piece in which you insert a plug, or a lightbulb) sounds
ok to me.
> - "thread" (often it is untranslated elsewhere): "fil d'exécution" ?
> - "membership" (that's the clustering object): "gestionnaire de membres" ?
"Membership" refers to "le fait d'être membre", no ? "adhésion" ?
(like "cluster members" -> "adhérents au cluster" (with the appropriate French
pronounciation for "cleustère") :-)
> - "dispatch"/"dispatcher" (for the Servlet request dispatcher): ?
>
dépêcher / dépêcheur ?
> And I just saw it is really "connexion" and not "connection". Oooops, I
> thought both were ok. I guess it's the same kind of mistake with English-UK
> vs English-US, where I usually hate the UK style (except in HarryP and
> Discworld, it's part of the charm I suppose).
>
Maybe a note : the target audience of most of these messages is not the members of the
Académie or the jury of the Prix Goncourt. Its is programmers, sysadmins and qualified
tomcat/webservers users. The translations should be helpful to them, to get a first idea
of the issue and be able to search later in the on-line documentation. Which happens to
be only available/up-to-date/searchable in English, no ?
So I believe that a translation such as "La requête PTHT recue sur le soquet du connecteur
de toile a été dépêchée au conducteur du groupe d'adhérents" may be stylistically correct,
but ultimately quite counter-productive.
(Sorry for the missing c cédille, can't type it here)
(PTHT = Protocol de Transport Hyper-Texte)
This being said, all these translations leave out what is really the main theme here :
tomcat. So what about a new name too ? what about "matou" ?
Or does this require a fourchette ?
> Rémy
>
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Rémy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 9:48 AM Ludovic Pénet <l....@senat.fr> wrote:
> Le vendredi 23 novembre 2018 à 23:51 +0100, Rémy Maucherat a écrit :
> > On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
> > >
> >
> > Done (well, close enough, a few tribes/ha remain) !
> A single translation remains to be performed.
>
> Jump to https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl and be the one to
> complete the French translation. ;-)
>
Ok, you could have finished it, I was busy.
Now we can try to harmonize terms, fixes are then easy to do with the
search feature
Common ones we have right now:
- "socket" (usually untranslated or cleverly omitted): ?
- "endpoint" (for websockets, and for the Tomcat connectors, so possibly
two different terms): "point d'entrée" ?
- "thread" (often it is untranslated elsewhere): "fil d'exécution" ?
- "membership" (that's the clustering object): "gestionnaire de membres" ?
- "dispatch"/"dispatcher" (for the Servlet request dispatcher): ?
And I just saw it is really "connexion" and not "connection". Oooops, I
thought both were ok. I guess it's the same kind of mistake with English-UK
vs English-US, where I usually hate the UK style (except in HarryP and
Discworld, it's part of the charm I suppose).
Rémy
Re: Translations update
Posted by Ludovic Pénet <l....@senat.fr>.
Le vendredi 23 novembre 2018 à 23:51 +0100, Rémy Maucherat a écrit :
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
> >
>
> Done (well, close enough, a few tribes/ha remain) !
A single translation remains to be performed.
Jump to https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl and be the one to
complete the French translation. ;-)
Ludovic
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Rémy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
>
Done (well, close enough, a few tribes/ha remain) !
Or rather, the initial work is done, gradual proofreading, rewording and
harmonizing would be needed. But it's not too bad as search and replace is
easier than initial translation (IMO).
And the source English strings are not exempt from that either, for example:
- many strings have big WARNING at first: it should be removed as it
duplicates the log level of the logger
- similar: message location info, like the thing occurred in FooBarClass,
which well, is probably going to be the log category
- debug with lots of random variables like in Tribes/HA, this shouldn't
have i18n
- some random digressions, IMO it should be kept to the point and avoid
many sentences
Is it possible to edit English directly in POEditor, or should it be done
in svn/git ?
Rémy
RE: Translations update
Posted by "Tran, Minh" <mi...@emoryhealthcare.org>.
Hi All,
I can help you with the addition of the Vietnamese translation so we can cover few of the under represented areas.
Kind Regards,
Minh Tran; Ph.D.
________________________________________
From: Mark Thomas [markt@apache.org]
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2018 4:58 AM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Translations update
Hi all,
I wanted to let you know about the amazing progress that is being made
on the Tomcat translations at
https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
In the short time since this effort has started the community has
achieved the following:
- French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
- Simplified Chinese has been added and has already reached 32% coverage
- Korean has been added and has reached 10% coverage
- German has increased from 2% to 7% coverage
- Brazilian Portuguese has been added and has reached 4% coverage
- Spanish has increased from 42% to 44% coverage
as well as a smaller number of additions and corrections to another 6
languages.
A big thank you to everyone who has contributed.
There is still lots to do so if you would like to help out please join
us at:
https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
Thanks,
Mark
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Woonsan Ko <wo...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 5:38 PM Keiichi Fujino <kf...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> 2018年12月14日(金) 13:46 Woonsan Ko <wo...@apache.org>:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Korean translation has just got to 100% line! Congrats to all the
> > contributors!
> > I also see Japanese fellows making a breakthrough, approaching the
> > finish line. Congrats in advance!
> > I will proofread Korean translations next week one more or two.
> > Perhaps I can write something about how each term, phrase and sentence
> > were to be translated for other (Korean) translators.
> >
> > Hi.
> Congrats Woonsan.
> Great work!
Same to you! :-)
> The goal of Japanese translation is coming soon,
> I’m going to keep translating.
Awesome!
Cheers,
Woonsan
>
>
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Woonsan
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 6:58 PM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I wanted to let you know about the amazing progress that is being made
> > > on the Tomcat translations at
> > > https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
> > >
> > > In the short time since this effort has started the community has
> > > achieved the following:
> > >
> > > - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
> > > - Simplified Chinese has been added and has already reached 32% coverage
> > > - Korean has been added and has reached 10% coverage
> > > - German has increased from 2% to 7% coverage
> > > - Brazilian Portuguese has been added and has reached 4% coverage
> > > - Spanish has increased from 42% to 44% coverage
> > >
> > > as well as a smaller number of additions and corrections to another 6
> > > languages.
> > >
> > > A big thank you to everyone who has contributed.
> > >
> > > There is still lots to do so if you would like to help out please join
> > > us at:
> > > https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> --
> Keiichi.Fujino
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Keiichi Fujino <kf...@apache.org>.
2018年12月14日(金) 13:46 Woonsan Ko <wo...@apache.org>:
> Hi all,
>
> Korean translation has just got to 100% line! Congrats to all the
> contributors!
> I also see Japanese fellows making a breakthrough, approaching the
> finish line. Congrats in advance!
> I will proofread Korean translations next week one more or two.
> Perhaps I can write something about how each term, phrase and sentence
> were to be translated for other (Korean) translators.
>
> Hi.
Congrats Woonsan.
Great work!
The goal of Japanese translation is coming soon,
I’m going to keep translating.
> Cheers,
>
> Woonsan
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 6:58 PM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I wanted to let you know about the amazing progress that is being made
> > on the Tomcat translations at
> > https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
> >
> > In the short time since this effort has started the community has
> > achieved the following:
> >
> > - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
> > - Simplified Chinese has been added and has already reached 32% coverage
> > - Korean has been added and has reached 10% coverage
> > - German has increased from 2% to 7% coverage
> > - Brazilian Portuguese has been added and has reached 4% coverage
> > - Spanish has increased from 42% to 44% coverage
> >
> > as well as a smaller number of additions and corrections to another 6
> > languages.
> >
> > A big thank you to everyone who has contributed.
> >
> > There is still lots to do so if you would like to help out please join
> > us at:
> > https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
--
Keiichi.Fujino
Re: Translations update
Posted by Woonsan Ko <wo...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 5:39 PM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 14/12/2018 04:46, Woonsan Ko wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Korean translation has just got to 100% line! Congrats to all the contributors!
>
> +1
>
> And apologies in advance that it is probably going to drop a few
> percentage points when I import the latest set of new strings.
No worries. ;-) Keep it coming!
Cheers,
Woonsan
>
> Mark
>
>
> > I also see Japanese fellows making a breakthrough, approaching the
> > finish line. Congrats in advance!
> > I will proofread Korean translations next week one more or two.
> > Perhaps I can write something about how each term, phrase and sentence
> > were to be translated for other (Korean) translators.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Woonsan
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 6:58 PM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I wanted to let you know about the amazing progress that is being made
> >> on the Tomcat translations at
> >> https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
> >>
> >> In the short time since this effort has started the community has
> >> achieved the following:
> >>
> >> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
> >> - Simplified Chinese has been added and has already reached 32% coverage
> >> - Korean has been added and has reached 10% coverage
> >> - German has increased from 2% to 7% coverage
> >> - Brazilian Portuguese has been added and has reached 4% coverage
> >> - Spanish has increased from 42% to 44% coverage
> >>
> >> as well as a smaller number of additions and corrections to another 6
> >> languages.
> >>
> >> A big thank you to everyone who has contributed.
> >>
> >> There is still lots to do so if you would like to help out please join
> >> us at:
> >> https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >
>
>
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 14/12/2018 04:46, Woonsan Ko wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Korean translation has just got to 100% line! Congrats to all the contributors!
+1
And apologies in advance that it is probably going to drop a few
percentage points when I import the latest set of new strings.
Mark
> I also see Japanese fellows making a breakthrough, approaching the
> finish line. Congrats in advance!
> I will proofread Korean translations next week one more or two.
> Perhaps I can write something about how each term, phrase and sentence
> were to be translated for other (Korean) translators.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Woonsan
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 6:58 PM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I wanted to let you know about the amazing progress that is being made
>> on the Tomcat translations at
>> https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
>>
>> In the short time since this effort has started the community has
>> achieved the following:
>>
>> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
>> - Simplified Chinese has been added and has already reached 32% coverage
>> - Korean has been added and has reached 10% coverage
>> - German has increased from 2% to 7% coverage
>> - Brazilian Portuguese has been added and has reached 4% coverage
>> - Spanish has increased from 42% to 44% coverage
>>
>> as well as a smaller number of additions and corrections to another 6
>> languages.
>>
>> A big thank you to everyone who has contributed.
>>
>> There is still lots to do so if you would like to help out please join
>> us at:
>> https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>
>
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Woonsan Ko <wo...@apache.org>.
Hi all,
Korean translation has just got to 100% line! Congrats to all the contributors!
I also see Japanese fellows making a breakthrough, approaching the
finish line. Congrats in advance!
I will proofread Korean translations next week one more or two.
Perhaps I can write something about how each term, phrase and sentence
were to be translated for other (Korean) translators.
Cheers,
Woonsan
On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 6:58 PM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I wanted to let you know about the amazing progress that is being made
> on the Tomcat translations at
> https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
>
> In the short time since this effort has started the community has
> achieved the following:
>
> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
> - Simplified Chinese has been added and has already reached 32% coverage
> - Korean has been added and has reached 10% coverage
> - German has increased from 2% to 7% coverage
> - Brazilian Portuguese has been added and has reached 4% coverage
> - Spanish has increased from 42% to 44% coverage
>
> as well as a smaller number of additions and corrections to another 6
> languages.
>
> A big thank you to everyone who has contributed.
>
> There is still lots to do so if you would like to help out please join
> us at:
> https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 22/11/2018 18:26, Mark Thomas wrote:
> On November 22, 2018 5:13:36 PM UTC, "Rémy Maucherat" <re...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> - Simplified Chinese has been added and has already reached 32%
>> coverage
>>>
>>
>> There's actually a problem with the Chinese translation, it's been
>> deleted
>> for some reason.
>>
>> Rémy
>
> Again? Groan. I should be able to undo that. Give me a few minutes...
Done. 890 recovered.
Mark
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On November 22, 2018 5:13:36 PM UTC, "Rémy Maucherat" <re...@apache.org> wrote:
>On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> - Simplified Chinese has been added and has already reached 32%
>coverage
>>
>
>There's actually a problem with the Chinese translation, it's been
>deleted
>for some reason.
>
>Rémy
Again? Groan. I should be able to undo that. Give me a few minutes...
Mark
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Re: Translations update
Posted by Rémy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:58 AM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> - Simplified Chinese has been added and has already reached 32% coverage
>
There's actually a problem with the Chinese translation, it's been deleted
for some reason.
Rémy
Re: Translations update
Posted by Huxing Zhang <hu...@apache.org>.
This is really awesome!
I am willing to help out with Chinese Translation.
On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 5:58 PM Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I wanted to let you know about the amazing progress that is being made
> on the Tomcat translations at
> https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
>
> In the short time since this effort has started the community has
> achieved the following:
>
> - French has increased from 18% to 64% coverage
> - Simplified Chinese has been added and has already reached 32% coverage
> - Korean has been added and has reached 10% coverage
> - German has increased from 2% to 7% coverage
> - Brazilian Portuguese has been added and has reached 4% coverage
> - Spanish has increased from 42% to 44% coverage
>
> as well as a smaller number of additions and corrections to another 6
> languages.
>
> A big thank you to everyone who has contributed.
>
> There is still lots to do so if you would like to help out please join
> us at:
> https://poeditor.com/join/project/NUTIjDWzrl
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
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--
Best Regards！
Huxing
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