[IMO] There are no Incubator issues

[Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>]

In my opinion it is always a failure of a podling when they can't get
a release out of the door, or are unable to vote in new committers.

"The future is not something we enter. The future is something we
create." --Leonard I. Sweet

As a podling is waiting for its release to be approved, I sure hope
they aren't holding their breath. If they have missing mentors, then
prod the mentors. If the mentors don't react, prod general@ (in a
polite way). If that doesn't help prod private@ or send a message to
VP incubator.

Is it frustrating that a first release can take a month to get to your
users? Yup. But consider that if it takes a month, your release and
your release process had many issues. Your next release should go much
faster (you did automate the release building, did you?). Is it
frustrating that nobody wants to look at your release? Yup. But ask
politely: you are asking volunteers their time–time they can spend
with their children, spouses, parents, friends or with their existing
projects. Time they will never get back. So spend that time wisely!

Outside the incubator you will find that it is still hard to get a
release vetted. People get swamped in work. They move houses. Life
happens. The incubator won't the last time you will struggle to get
the required +3 binding votes. Outside the incubator you also need to
make it happen, so show that you are able to do so!

If/when a drive by review unveils some things that are wrong with a
release (even minutia) go fix them, automate them and respin the
release. Do the work and get the release up to standards. You got the
attention, someone put the time in to review your release, the onus is
on you to fix it. Do it quickly and you'll have a review that much
faster. Even better if you can prove that you fixed the discovered
issues (show a rat report, a diff of the archive structure, etc).

Subscribe to the general@ list and read the things that are uncovered
for failed releases. Fix that too in your release. This way you learn
from other folks' mistakes.

Fill in your board reports on time. Prod your mentors to sign off the
reports. Do the trademark search. Fix the licensing. Expand your
community.

Self governance doesn't just mean the ability to answer messages on
users@ or to have civil discourse on dev@, or the ability to commit
code without having too many merge conflicts. It also means taking
responsibility for your project. You are responsible for getting a
release out of the door: it is your project! You are responsible for
ensuring the status page is completely checked off: it is your
project! You are responsible for completing a trademark search: it is
your project! You are responsible for filing a board report on time:
it is your project!

And yes I speak from my own experience. With Wicket we were living in
a slum for half a year. But finally we got our own act together to get
a release out the door, to vote in new committers, to fix our status
page, to fix our licensing issues etc. That is hard work and you have
to spend the time and energy to complete those tasks. But when you
have everything in order, you can graduate with confidence.

The short guide to graduation: do the work, see it through, persevere
and graduate.

Martijn

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Re: [IMO] There are no Incubator issues

[Kevin Minder <km...@gmail.com>]

Just offering my $0.02.  I'm working on the Knox podling and perhaps 
I've just been lucky by my mentors have been GREAT.  Sure some times 
I've had to ping them directly to get a question answered or get a vote 
but that is to be expected in a volunteer org.  One thing Knox did right 
(by accident) is that we have alot of mentors, seven.  I was always able 
to find someone with cycles to help.  The only thing I would suggest is 
that perhaps podlings need a well defined process by which they can 
add/replace mentors if they didn't get as lucky as me.

On 11/8/13 1:49 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Martijn Dashorst
> <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The short guide to graduation: do the work, see it through, persevere
>> and graduate.
> I think your email contained lots of excellent advice for podlings now in
> incubation.
>
> I dream of something better, though.  Just because you and I had to walk to
> school barefoot in the snow uphill both ways doesn't mean that our children
> should have to. :)
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
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Re: [IMO] There are no Incubator issues

[Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>]

Whoops. Wrong email. Oh well. Creating that video was fun anyway.

Upayavira

On Fri, Nov 8, 2013, at 10:42 AM, Upayavira wrote:
> Thanks for that!
> 
> Here's another that someone posted:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EfnGMEjgK4&feature=youtu.be
> 
> Upayavira
> 
> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013, at 06:49 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Martijn Dashorst
> > <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > The short guide to graduation: do the work, see it through, persevere
> > > and graduate.
> > 
> > I think your email contained lots of excellent advice for podlings now in
> > incubation.
> > 
> > I dream of something better, though.  Just because you and I had to walk
> > to
> > school barefoot in the snow uphill both ways doesn't mean that our
> > children
> > should have to. :)
> 
> The incubator *can" 
> 
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Re: [IMO] There are no Incubator issues

[Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>]

Thanks for that!

Here's another that someone posted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EfnGMEjgK4&feature=youtu.be

Upayavira

On Fri, Nov 8, 2013, at 06:49 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Martijn Dashorst
> <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The short guide to graduation: do the work, see it through, persevere
> > and graduate.
> 
> I think your email contained lots of excellent advice for podlings now in
> incubation.
> 
> I dream of something better, though.  Just because you and I had to walk
> to
> school barefoot in the snow uphill both ways doesn't mean that our
> children
> should have to. :)

The incubator *can" 

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Re: [IMO] There are no Incubator issues

[Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>]

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Martijn Dashorst
<ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The short guide to graduation: do the work, see it through, persevere
> and graduate.

I think your email contained lots of excellent advice for podlings now in
incubation.

I dream of something better, though.  Just because you and I had to walk to
school barefoot in the snow uphill both ways doesn't mean that our children
should have to. :)

Marvin Humphrey

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Re: [IMO] There are no Incubator issues

[ant elder <an...@gmail.com>]

Ha ha ha ha. Does the same also apply to maintaining the records, for
clutch, the vote monitoring and other tools, signing reports, writing
reports for that matter, and all the other aspects of the incubator -
all of that might get done eventually one day if people can ever find
the time, don't make a fuss, as frustrating as it is just keep asking
politely or do it yourself etc?

What it means if mentors aren't voting on things like releases after
weeks is that the mentors aren't doing any mentoring, in which case
whats the point in the podling being here?

   ...ant


On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 7:00 AM, David Crossley <cr...@apache.org> wrote:
> Martijn Dashorst wrote:
>>  ...
>
> Well said. Hooray for common-sense and taking ownership.
>
> We must remember that we are all individuals. The ASF
> enables us to do what we want. We each need to take the
> initiative.
>
> -David
>
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Re: [IMO] There are no Incubator issues

[David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>]

Martijn Dashorst wrote:
>  ...

Well said. Hooray for common-sense and taking ownership.

We must remember that we are all individuals. The ASF
enables us to do what we want. We each need to take the
initiative.

-David

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Re: [IMO] There are no Incubator issues

[Eric Johnson <er...@tibco.com>]

"Welcome to the community. Go read the wiki. Follow the mailing list. 
Figure out everything else by yourself! Good luck. Let us know when you 
think you're ready to be a TLP."

Really?

One of my co-workers hit me with the line one:

"Is that your best work?"

Eric.

On 11/7/13, 3:34 PM, Martijn Dashorst wrote:
> In my opinion it is always a failure of a podling when they can't get
> a release out of the door, or are unable to vote in new committers.
>
> "The future is not something we enter. The future is something we
> create." --Leonard I. Sweet
>
> As a podling is waiting for its release to be approved, I sure hope
> they aren't holding their breath. If they have missing mentors, then
> prod the mentors. If the mentors don't react, prod general@ (in a
> polite way). If that doesn't help prod private@ or send a message to
> VP incubator.
>
> Is it frustrating that a first release can take a month to get to your
> users? Yup. But consider that if it takes a month, your release and
> your release process had many issues. Your next release should go much
> faster (you did automate the release building, did you?). Is it
> frustrating that nobody wants to look at your release? Yup. But ask
> politely: you are asking volunteers their time–time they can spend
> with their children, spouses, parents, friends or with their existing
> projects. Time they will never get back. So spend that time wisely!
>
> Outside the incubator you will find that it is still hard to get a
> release vetted. People get swamped in work. They move houses. Life
> happens. The incubator won't the last time you will struggle to get
> the required +3 binding votes. Outside the incubator you also need to
> make it happen, so show that you are able to do so!
>
> If/when a drive by review unveils some things that are wrong with a
> release (even minutia) go fix them, automate them and respin the
> release. Do the work and get the release up to standards. You got the
> attention, someone put the time in to review your release, the onus is
> on you to fix it. Do it quickly and you'll have a review that much
> faster. Even better if you can prove that you fixed the discovered
> issues (show a rat report, a diff of the archive structure, etc).
>
> Subscribe to the general@ list and read the things that are uncovered
> for failed releases. Fix that too in your release. This way you learn
> from other folks' mistakes.
>
> Fill in your board reports on time. Prod your mentors to sign off the
> reports. Do the trademark search. Fix the licensing. Expand your
> community.
>
> Self governance doesn't just mean the ability to answer messages on
> users@ or to have civil discourse on dev@, or the ability to commit
> code without having too many merge conflicts. It also means taking
> responsibility for your project. You are responsible for getting a
> release out of the door: it is your project! You are responsible for
> ensuring the status page is completely checked off: it is your
> project! You are responsible for completing a trademark search: it is
> your project! You are responsible for filing a board report on time:
> it is your project!
>
> And yes I speak from my own experience. With Wicket we were living in
> a slum for half a year. But finally we got our own act together to get
> a release out the door, to vote in new committers, to fix our status
> page, to fix our licensing issues etc. That is hard work and you have
> to spend the time and energy to complete those tasks. But when you
> have everything in order, you can graduate with confidence.
>
> The short guide to graduation: do the work, see it through, persevere
> and graduate.
>
> Martijn
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>


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Re: [IMO] There are no Incubator issues

[Alexei Fedotov <al...@gmail.com>]

A month.. aha. :-)
08.11.2013 3:35 пользователь "Martijn Dashorst" <ma...@gmail.com>
написал:

> In my opinion it is always a failure of a podling when they can't get
> a release out of the door, or are unable to vote in new committers.
>
> "The future is not something we enter. The future is something we
> create." --Leonard I. Sweet
>
> As a podling is waiting for its release to be approved, I sure hope
> they aren't holding their breath. If they have missing mentors, then
> prod the mentors. If the mentors don't react, prod general@ (in a
> polite way). If that doesn't help prod private@ or send a message to
> VP incubator.
>
> Is it frustrating that a first release can take a month to get to your
> users? Yup. But consider that if it takes a month, your release and
> your release process had many issues. Your next release should go much
> faster (you did automate the release building, did you?). Is it
> frustrating that nobody wants to look at your release? Yup. But ask
> politely: you are asking volunteers their time–time they can spend
> with their children, spouses, parents, friends or with their existing
> projects. Time they will never get back. So spend that time wisely!
>
> Outside the incubator you will find that it is still hard to get a
> release vetted. People get swamped in work. They move houses. Life
> happens. The incubator won't the last time you will struggle to get
> the required +3 binding votes. Outside the incubator you also need to
> make it happen, so show that you are able to do so!
>
> If/when a drive by review unveils some things that are wrong with a
> release (even minutia) go fix them, automate them and respin the
> release. Do the work and get the release up to standards. You got the
> attention, someone put the time in to review your release, the onus is
> on you to fix it. Do it quickly and you'll have a review that much
> faster. Even better if you can prove that you fixed the discovered
> issues (show a rat report, a diff of the archive structure, etc).
>
> Subscribe to the general@ list and read the things that are uncovered
> for failed releases. Fix that too in your release. This way you learn
> from other folks' mistakes.
>
> Fill in your board reports on time. Prod your mentors to sign off the
> reports. Do the trademark search. Fix the licensing. Expand your
> community.
>
> Self governance doesn't just mean the ability to answer messages on
> users@ or to have civil discourse on dev@, or the ability to commit
> code without having too many merge conflicts. It also means taking
> responsibility for your project. You are responsible for getting a
> release out of the door: it is your project! You are responsible for
> ensuring the status page is completely checked off: it is your
> project! You are responsible for completing a trademark search: it is
> your project! You are responsible for filing a board report on time:
> it is your project!
>
> And yes I speak from my own experience. With Wicket we were living in
> a slum for half a year. But finally we got our own act together to get
> a release out the door, to vote in new committers, to fix our status
> page, to fix our licensing issues etc. That is hard work and you have
> to spend the time and energy to complete those tasks. But when you
> have everything in order, you can graduate with confidence.
>
> The short guide to graduation: do the work, see it through, persevere
> and graduate.
>
> Martijn
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>