Clerezza report for November

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

Hi,

FYI I've created a report at
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/November2012based on the recent
"future of Clerezza" discussion, text below.

Feedback/additions/changes are welcome, I'm planning to sign the report off
tomorrow.

-Bertrand


** report text **
Clerezza is a framework and set of components designed to make it easy to
build applications for the semantic and the social web.

Although Clerezza could technically graduate, activity has been very low
and diminishing
since 2010, especially regarding the content management components. The
reusable RDF libraries
are used in Stanbol for example and see slightly more activity.

We've started a discussion about the future of Clerezza, with a proposal to
move those reusable
libraries to another project, probably Stanbol, and terminate incubation of
the other components.

The goal is to have a decision on this within a few days.

Re: Clerezza report for November

[Tommaso Teofili <to...@gmail.com>]

thanks Bertrand, that looks good to me.
Tommaso


2012/11/6 Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>

> Hi,
>
> FYI I've created a report at
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/November2012based on the recent
> "future of Clerezza" discussion, text below.
>
> Feedback/additions/changes are welcome, I'm planning to sign the report off
> tomorrow.
>
> -Bertrand
>
>
> ** report text **
> Clerezza is a framework and set of components designed to make it easy to
> build applications for the semantic and the social web.
>
> Although Clerezza could technically graduate, activity has been very low
> and diminishing
> since 2010, especially regarding the content management components. The
> reusable RDF libraries
> are used in Stanbol for example and see slightly more activity.
>
> We've started a discussion about the future of Clerezza, with a proposal to
> move those reusable
> libraries to another project, probably Stanbol, and terminate incubation of
> the other components.
>
> The goal is to have a decision on this within a few days.
>

Re: Clerezza report for November

[Hasan Hasan <ha...@trialox.org>]

We have several projects built on top of apache clerezza. We only "use"
apache clerezza
and almost make no changes on it. We do have low activity in apache
clerezza, but not
if seen from its application.
Thus, if apache clerezza cannot be kept where it is, we (trialox) have to
find a place to move
the codes elsewhere. That's the reason of me writing the email before.

Cheers
Hasan

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Fabian Christ
<ch...@googlemail.com>wrote:

> Hi Hasan,
>
> why then not keep Clerezza where it is and try to bring up more community
> around it? The only point why this discussion came up is that from the
> outside it seems that there is to low activity in Clerezza. If this can be
> changed, we are just fine.
>
> Best,
>  - Fabian
>
>
> 2012/11/8 Hasan Hasan <ha...@trialox.org>
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > we from trialox are thinking of cloning the whole apache clerezza modules
> > and hosting them elsewhere, probably under
> > github and make them available as open source, however using the name
> > org.clerezza (thus, all artifacts will be renamed)
> > We will maintain the codes and people may make suggestions for
> improvements
> > or provide patches which will be applied if suitable.
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Hasan
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
> > bdelacretaz@apache.org
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > > > ...It's good to have the existing released artifacts remain - what
> > about
> > > after
> > > > the donation?
> > > >
> > > > Presumably the moved modules will be released by the new host - will
> > they
> > > > use group id org.apache.clerezza? or move to the new host project
> group
> > > id?
> > > > I'd suggest renaming the group to the new project but realise it is a
> > bit
> > > > more disruptive...
> > >
> > > I think that's really up to whatever project adopts that code. In
> > > theory package names should change but that's probably not convenient.
> > >
> > > Or maybe it's time to create a semantic module or two at
> > > http://commons.apache.org/ ? If existing committers are willing to
> > > support that with their work it should be easy to make it happen.
> > >
> > > -Bertrand
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Fabian
> http://twitter.com/fctwitt
>

Re: Clerezza report for November

[Fabian Christ <ch...@googlemail.com>]

Hi Hasan,

why then not keep Clerezza where it is and try to bring up more community
around it? The only point why this discussion came up is that from the
outside it seems that there is to low activity in Clerezza. If this can be
changed, we are just fine.

Best,
 - Fabian


2012/11/8 Hasan Hasan <ha...@trialox.org>

> Hi All,
>
> we from trialox are thinking of cloning the whole apache clerezza modules
> and hosting them elsewhere, probably under
> github and make them available as open source, however using the name
> org.clerezza (thus, all artifacts will be renamed)
> We will maintain the codes and people may make suggestions for improvements
> or provide patches which will be applied if suitable.
>
> Kind regards
> Hasan
>
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
> bdelacretaz@apache.org
> > wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > ...It's good to have the existing released artifacts remain - what
> about
> > after
> > > the donation?
> > >
> > > Presumably the moved modules will be released by the new host - will
> they
> > > use group id org.apache.clerezza? or move to the new host project group
> > id?
> > > I'd suggest renaming the group to the new project but realise it is a
> bit
> > > more disruptive...
> >
> > I think that's really up to whatever project adopts that code. In
> > theory package names should change but that's probably not convenient.
> >
> > Or maybe it's time to create a semantic module or two at
> > http://commons.apache.org/ ? If existing committers are willing to
> > support that with their work it should be easy to make it happen.
> >
> > -Bertrand
> >
>



-- 
Fabian
http://twitter.com/fctwitt

Re: Clerezza report for November

[Hasan Hasan <ha...@trialox.org>]

Hi All,

we from trialox are thinking of cloning the whole apache clerezza modules
and hosting them elsewhere, probably under
github and make them available as open source, however using the name
org.clerezza (thus, all artifacts will be renamed)
We will maintain the codes and people may make suggestions for improvements
or provide patches which will be applied if suitable.

Kind regards
Hasan

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <bdelacretaz@apache.org
> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> > ...It's good to have the existing released artifacts remain - what about
> after
> > the donation?
> >
> > Presumably the moved modules will be released by the new host - will they
> > use group id org.apache.clerezza? or move to the new host project group
> id?
> > I'd suggest renaming the group to the new project but realise it is a bit
> > more disruptive...
>
> I think that's really up to whatever project adopts that code. In
> theory package names should change but that's probably not convenient.
>
> Or maybe it's time to create a semantic module or two at
> http://commons.apache.org/ ? If existing committers are willing to
> support that with their work it should be easy to make it happen.
>
> -Bertrand
>

Re: Clerezza report for November

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...It's good to have the existing released artifacts remain - what about after
> the donation?
>
> Presumably the moved modules will be released by the new host - will they
> use group id org.apache.clerezza? or move to the new host project group id?
> I'd suggest renaming the group to the new project but realise it is a bit
> more disruptive...

I think that's really up to whatever project adopts that code. In
theory package names should change but that's probably not convenient.

Or maybe it's time to create a semantic module or two at
http://commons.apache.org/ ? If existing committers are willing to
support that with their work it should be easy to make it happen.

-Bertrand

Re: Clerezza report for November

[Andy Seaborne <an...@apache.org>]

On 08/11/12 08:48, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Fabian Christ
> <ch...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> 2012/11/8 Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
>>> ... the
>>> existing code can remain available, maybe at http://attic.apache.org/
>>
>> What about the released artifacts in Maven central? Will they also remain there?
>
> IMO, yes, I don't see a reason to remove them.
>
> -Bertrand
>

(mentally going through the details and consequences ...)

It's good to have the existing released artifacts remain - what about 
after the donation?

Presumably the moved modules will be released by the new host - will 
they use group id org.apache.clerezza? or move to the new host project 
group id?  I'd suggest renaming the group to the new project but realise 
it is a bit more disruptive - so maybe eventually.  The new project will 
need to discuss how to incorporate it (haven't gone to find that 
discussion yet).

	Andy

Re: Clerezza report for November

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Fabian Christ
<ch...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 2012/11/8 Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
>> ... the
>> existing code can remain available, maybe at http://attic.apache.org/
>
> What about the released artifacts in Maven central? Will they also remain there?

IMO, yes, I don't see a reason to remove them.

-Bertrand

Re: Clerezza report for November

[Fabian Christ <ch...@googlemail.com>]

2012/11/8 Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
> ... the
> existing code can remain available, maybe at http://attic.apache.org/

What about the released artifacts in Maven central? Will they also remain there?

-- 
Fabian
http://twitter.com/fctwitt

Re: Clerezza report for November

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Daniel Spicar <da...@trialox.org> wrote:
> It is not really designated what belongs to the CMS part and what belongs
> to the reusable RDF libraries...

Note that, assuming we go on with the plan of donating the reusable
modules to another project and retiring Clerezza as a podling, the
existing code can remain available, maybe at http://attic.apache.org/

So, if we start with a few donated modules and the target project
later wants more, they can just grab that code from wherever we'll
archive it, and go on from there.

-Bertrand

Re: Clerezza report for November

[Daniel Spicar <da...@trialox.org>]

Hi,

It is not really designated what belongs to the CMS part and what belongs
to the reusable RDF libraries. Generally all modules that start with
(org.apache.clerezza.)platform.* probably belong to the CMS part. In the
document you linked the reusable RDF libraries probably are what is
described as 'Smart Content Binding' mainly. Those are mostly the modules
starting with  (org.apache.clerezza.)rdf.*. But could include other
utilities as well depending on whether they are used by other projects and
can be used without the platform modules.

Daniel


On 6 November 2012 20:25, ajs6f@virginia.edu <aj...@virginia.edu> wrote:

> As an outsider, the meaning of "content management components" vs.
> "reusable RDF libraries" in this discussion isn't totally clear to me.
>
> Is this the "RESTful Web Service Framework" as opposed to the "Smart
> Content Binding", as shown here
>
> https://incubator.apache.org/clerezza/architecture/
>
> ?
>
> ---
> A. Soroka
> Software & Systems Engineering :: Online Library Environment
> the University of Virginia Library
>
> On Nov 6, 2012, at 4:08 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > FYI I've created a report at
> > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/November2012based on the recent
> > "future of Clerezza" discussion, text below.
> >
> > Feedback/additions/changes are welcome, I'm planning to sign the report
> off
> > tomorrow.
> >
> > -Bertrand
> >
> >
> > ** report text **
> > Clerezza is a framework and set of components designed to make it easy to
> > build applications for the semantic and the social web.
> >
> > Although Clerezza could technically graduate, activity has been very low
> > and diminishing
> > since 2010, especially regarding the content management components. The
> > reusable RDF libraries
> > are used in Stanbol for example and see slightly more activity.
> >
> > We've started a discussion about the future of Clerezza, with a proposal
> to
> > move those reusable
> > libraries to another project, probably Stanbol, and terminate incubation
> of
> > the other components.
> >
> > The goal is to have a decision on this within a few days.
>
>

Re: Clerezza report for November

["ajs6f@virginia.edu" <aj...@virginia.edu>]

As an outsider, the meaning of "content management components" vs. "reusable RDF libraries" in this discussion isn't totally clear to me.

Is this the "RESTful Web Service Framework" as opposed to the "Smart Content Binding", as shown here

https://incubator.apache.org/clerezza/architecture/

?

---
A. Soroka
Software & Systems Engineering :: Online Library Environment
the University of Virginia Library

On Nov 6, 2012, at 4:08 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> FYI I've created a report at
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/November2012based on the recent
> "future of Clerezza" discussion, text below.
> 
> Feedback/additions/changes are welcome, I'm planning to sign the report off
> tomorrow.
> 
> -Bertrand
> 
> 
> ** report text **
> Clerezza is a framework and set of components designed to make it easy to
> build applications for the semantic and the social web.
> 
> Although Clerezza could technically graduate, activity has been very low
> and diminishing
> since 2010, especially regarding the content management components. The
> reusable RDF libraries
> are used in Stanbol for example and see slightly more activity.
> 
> We've started a discussion about the future of Clerezza, with a proposal to
> move those reusable
> libraries to another project, probably Stanbol, and terminate incubation of
> the other components.
> 
> The goal is to have a decision on this within a few days.