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Posted to dev@mxnet.apache.org by sandeep krishnamurthy <sa...@gmail.com> on 2018/03/23 05:49:07 UTC
Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
Hello MXNet Community,
Along with Lai, Karan and other MXNet contributors, I am working on adding
MXNet backend for Keras. Currently supporting around ~70% of Keras APIs
across CNNs and RNNs.
https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend
We wanted to gather the community feedback on the proposal for including
this keras-mxnet package as a submodule in Apache MXNet. This will enable
providing the Keras interface for MXNet users. MXNet users can choose Keras
interface for building their Neural Networks in Symbolic Mode (Ex:
mx.keras).
*Advantages:*
1. Keras is widely popular interface that many DL practitioners are
familiar. By including keras interface within MXNet natively, we enable
many users to use MXNet with 0 learning curve.
2. Adding as submodule and exposing natively within MXNet pip package,
would greatly enhance user experience and get more users as compared to
releasing a fork repository independently.
3. Why submodule? - Helps in easily managing with patching the latest
parent keras-team/keras developments and releases. Thereby helping us
provide users the core keras experience. Operational management.
4. Other minor advantages - Operational maintenance, pip, CI and quality
control.
Please do share your comments on the proposal.
Best,
Sandeep
*Note: *We tried merging with keras-team/keras and we created a PR
<https://github.com/keras-team/keras/pull/9291> as well. However, due to
multiple design incompatibility challenges, we need significant re-work on
MXNet Module, KVStore, Optimizers to address keras-team design concerns.
Since, we are adhering to keras API interface exposed to users, we are
planning release on the forked repo for now. More details on the design
challenges and workaround tried -
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vn5ip5MzCKcN29KCCnwjB2d59y-VevdLrdn_eNd3nE4/edit?usp=sharing
Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
Posted by sandeep krishnamurthy <sa...@gmail.com>.
1. I agree bringing whole keras-mxnet repo as submodule in MXNet is not the
right thing to do. I was mainly proposing, a stripped version of
keras-mxnet which has keras interface with MXNet backend in to MXNet
enabling MXNet users to use Keras interface natively within MXNet (Ex:
mx.keras)
2. Review process in keras-team/keras has not passed due to design
incompatibility with MXNet - Keras and NOT due to any Keras API interface
issue or functionality exposed to users.
Let me rephrase my proposal for comments - "Do we want to bring in Keras
interface into MXNet?"
Best,
Sandeep
On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 12:06 PM, Xingjian SHI <xs...@connect.ust.hk>
wrote:
> It should at least pass the review process. However, the Keras-MXNet has
> not passed the review by the keras team.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Xingjian
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Naveen Swamy <mn...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 3:04 AM
> To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
>
> define - not mature?
>
> Are all new commits that go into MXNet mature ?
>
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 12:02 PM, Xingjian SHI <xs...@connect.ust.hk>
> wrote:
>
> > -1. We do not need to get the eyeballs this way. Asking users to use
> > features that are not mature enough will only hurt the future development
> > of MXNet.
> >
> >
> > Xingjian
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Naveen Swamy <mn...@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 2:54 AM
> > To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
> >
> > The proposal is about bringing a forked version of Keras(that works only
> > with MXNet) into Apache MXNet repo submodule that way MXNet gets more
> > eyeballs from existing Keras users and eventually Gluon, etc., , like
> > Sandeep mentioned Keras has a large user base which MXNet could tap into.
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 11:50 AM, Yao Wang <ke...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > -1 Creating Keras as submodule of MXNet will provide users a feeling
> that
> > > MXNet depends on Keras. Keras is a frontend library which can be
> > supported
> > > by various different backend framework. It would be better to add
> backend
> > > framework as Keras's submodule(Keras depends on MXNet) rather than
> > > opposite.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Yao
> > >
> > > 2018-03-23 11:44 GMT-07:00 Xingjian SHI <xs...@connect.ust.hk>:
> > >
> > > > -1. I think we should wait until it's merged into keras-team/keras.
> The
> > > > repo is still not mature enough.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > >
> > > > Xingjian
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: sandeep krishnamurthy <sa...@gmail.com>
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 1:49 PM
> > > > To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
> > > >
> > > > Hello MXNet Community,
> > > >
> > > > Along with Lai, Karan and other MXNet contributors, I am working on
> > > adding
> > > > MXNet backend for Keras. Currently supporting around ~70% of Keras
> APIs
> > > > across CNNs and RNNs.
> > > > https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/
> keras2_mxnet_backend
> [https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4]<https://
> github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
>
> deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning-
> tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> github.com
> keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano, or
> CNTK.
>
>
>
> > [https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4]<https://
> > github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> >
> > deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning-
> > tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> > github.com
> > keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano, or
> > CNTK.
> >
> >
> >
> > > > [https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4
> ]<https://
> > > > github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> > > >
> > > > deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning-
> > > > tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> > > > github.com
> > > > keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano,
> > or
> > > > CNTK.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > We wanted to gather the community feedback on the proposal for
> > including
> > > > this keras-mxnet package as a submodule in Apache MXNet. This will
> > enable
> > > > providing the Keras interface for MXNet users. MXNet users can choose
> > > Keras
> > > > interface for building their Neural Networks in Symbolic Mode (Ex:
> > > > mx.keras).
> > > >
> > > > *Advantages:*
> > > >
> > > > 1. Keras is widely popular interface that many DL practitioners are
> > > > familiar. By including keras interface within MXNet natively, we
> enable
> > > > many users to use MXNet with 0 learning curve.
> > > >
> > > > 2. Adding as submodule and exposing natively within MXNet pip
> package,
> > > > would greatly enhance user experience and get more users as compared
> to
> > > > releasing a fork repository independently.
> > > >
> > > > 3. Why submodule? - Helps in easily managing with patching the latest
> > > > parent keras-team/keras developments and releases. Thereby helping us
> > > > provide users the core keras experience. Operational management.
> > > >
> > > > 4. Other minor advantages - Operational maintenance, pip, CI and
> > quality
> > > > control.
> > > >
> > > > Please do share your comments on the proposal.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Sandeep
> > > >
> > > > *Note: *We tried merging with keras-team/keras and we created a PR
> > > > <https://github.com/keras-team/keras/pull/9291> as well. However,
> due
> > to
> > > > multiple design incompatibility challenges, we need significant
> re-work
> > > on
> > > > MXNet Module, KVStore, Optimizers to address keras-team design
> > concerns.
> > > > Since, we are adhering to keras API interface exposed to users, we
> are
> > > > planning release on the forked repo for now. More details on the
> design
> > > > challenges and workaround tried -
> > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vn5ip5MzCKcN29KCCnwjB2d59y-
> > > > VevdLrdn_eNd3nE4/edit?usp=sharing
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--
Sandeep Krishnamurthy
Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
Posted by Xingjian SHI <xs...@connect.ust.hk>.
It should at least pass the review process. However, the Keras-MXNet has not passed the review by the keras team.
Best,
Xingjian
________________________________
From: Naveen Swamy <mn...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 3:04 AM
To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
define - not mature?
Are all new commits that go into MXNet mature ?
On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 12:02 PM, Xingjian SHI <xs...@connect.ust.hk>
wrote:
> -1. We do not need to get the eyeballs this way. Asking users to use
> features that are not mature enough will only hurt the future development
> of MXNet.
>
>
> Xingjian
>
> ________________________________
> From: Naveen Swamy <mn...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 2:54 AM
> To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
>
> The proposal is about bringing a forked version of Keras(that works only
> with MXNet) into Apache MXNet repo submodule that way MXNet gets more
> eyeballs from existing Keras users and eventually Gluon, etc., , like
> Sandeep mentioned Keras has a large user base which MXNet could tap into.
>
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 11:50 AM, Yao Wang <ke...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > -1 Creating Keras as submodule of MXNet will provide users a feeling that
> > MXNet depends on Keras. Keras is a frontend library which can be
> supported
> > by various different backend framework. It would be better to add backend
> > framework as Keras's submodule(Keras depends on MXNet) rather than
> > opposite.
> >
> > Best,
> > Yao
> >
> > 2018-03-23 11:44 GMT-07:00 Xingjian SHI <xs...@connect.ust.hk>:
> >
> > > -1. I think we should wait until it's merged into keras-team/keras. The
> > > repo is still not mature enough.
> > >
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Xingjian
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: sandeep krishnamurthy <sa...@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 1:49 PM
> > > To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
> > >
> > > Hello MXNet Community,
> > >
> > > Along with Lai, Karan and other MXNet contributors, I am working on
> > adding
> > > MXNet backend for Keras. Currently supporting around ~70% of Keras APIs
> > > across CNNs and RNNs.
> > > https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend
[https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4]<https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
github.com
keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano, or CNTK.
> [https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4]<https://
> github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
>
> deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning-
> tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> github.com
> keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano, or
> CNTK.
>
>
>
> > > [https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4]<https://
> > > github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> > >
> > > deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning-
> > > tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> > > github.com
> > > keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano,
> or
> > > CNTK.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We wanted to gather the community feedback on the proposal for
> including
> > > this keras-mxnet package as a submodule in Apache MXNet. This will
> enable
> > > providing the Keras interface for MXNet users. MXNet users can choose
> > Keras
> > > interface for building their Neural Networks in Symbolic Mode (Ex:
> > > mx.keras).
> > >
> > > *Advantages:*
> > >
> > > 1. Keras is widely popular interface that many DL practitioners are
> > > familiar. By including keras interface within MXNet natively, we enable
> > > many users to use MXNet with 0 learning curve.
> > >
> > > 2. Adding as submodule and exposing natively within MXNet pip package,
> > > would greatly enhance user experience and get more users as compared to
> > > releasing a fork repository independently.
> > >
> > > 3. Why submodule? - Helps in easily managing with patching the latest
> > > parent keras-team/keras developments and releases. Thereby helping us
> > > provide users the core keras experience. Operational management.
> > >
> > > 4. Other minor advantages - Operational maintenance, pip, CI and
> quality
> > > control.
> > >
> > > Please do share your comments on the proposal.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Sandeep
> > >
> > > *Note: *We tried merging with keras-team/keras and we created a PR
> > > <https://github.com/keras-team/keras/pull/9291> as well. However, due
> to
> > > multiple design incompatibility challenges, we need significant re-work
> > on
> > > MXNet Module, KVStore, Optimizers to address keras-team design
> concerns.
> > > Since, we are adhering to keras API interface exposed to users, we are
> > > planning release on the forked repo for now. More details on the design
> > > challenges and workaround tried -
> > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vn5ip5MzCKcN29KCCnwjB2d59y-
> > > VevdLrdn_eNd3nE4/edit?usp=sharing
> > >
> >
>
Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
Posted by Naveen Swamy <mn...@gmail.com>.
define - not mature?
Are all new commits that go into MXNet mature ?
On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 12:02 PM, Xingjian SHI <xs...@connect.ust.hk>
wrote:
> -1. We do not need to get the eyeballs this way. Asking users to use
> features that are not mature enough will only hurt the future development
> of MXNet.
>
>
> Xingjian
>
> ________________________________
> From: Naveen Swamy <mn...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 2:54 AM
> To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
>
> The proposal is about bringing a forked version of Keras(that works only
> with MXNet) into Apache MXNet repo submodule that way MXNet gets more
> eyeballs from existing Keras users and eventually Gluon, etc., , like
> Sandeep mentioned Keras has a large user base which MXNet could tap into.
>
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 11:50 AM, Yao Wang <ke...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > -1 Creating Keras as submodule of MXNet will provide users a feeling that
> > MXNet depends on Keras. Keras is a frontend library which can be
> supported
> > by various different backend framework. It would be better to add backend
> > framework as Keras's submodule(Keras depends on MXNet) rather than
> > opposite.
> >
> > Best,
> > Yao
> >
> > 2018-03-23 11:44 GMT-07:00 Xingjian SHI <xs...@connect.ust.hk>:
> >
> > > -1. I think we should wait until it's merged into keras-team/keras. The
> > > repo is still not mature enough.
> > >
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Xingjian
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: sandeep krishnamurthy <sa...@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 1:49 PM
> > > To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
> > >
> > > Hello MXNet Community,
> > >
> > > Along with Lai, Karan and other MXNet contributors, I am working on
> > adding
> > > MXNet backend for Keras. Currently supporting around ~70% of Keras APIs
> > > across CNNs and RNNs.
> > > https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend
> [https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4]<https://
> github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
>
> deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning-
> tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> github.com
> keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano, or
> CNTK.
>
>
>
> > > [https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4]<https://
> > > github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> > >
> > > deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning-
> > > tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> > > github.com
> > > keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano,
> or
> > > CNTK.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We wanted to gather the community feedback on the proposal for
> including
> > > this keras-mxnet package as a submodule in Apache MXNet. This will
> enable
> > > providing the Keras interface for MXNet users. MXNet users can choose
> > Keras
> > > interface for building their Neural Networks in Symbolic Mode (Ex:
> > > mx.keras).
> > >
> > > *Advantages:*
> > >
> > > 1. Keras is widely popular interface that many DL practitioners are
> > > familiar. By including keras interface within MXNet natively, we enable
> > > many users to use MXNet with 0 learning curve.
> > >
> > > 2. Adding as submodule and exposing natively within MXNet pip package,
> > > would greatly enhance user experience and get more users as compared to
> > > releasing a fork repository independently.
> > >
> > > 3. Why submodule? - Helps in easily managing with patching the latest
> > > parent keras-team/keras developments and releases. Thereby helping us
> > > provide users the core keras experience. Operational management.
> > >
> > > 4. Other minor advantages - Operational maintenance, pip, CI and
> quality
> > > control.
> > >
> > > Please do share your comments on the proposal.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Sandeep
> > >
> > > *Note: *We tried merging with keras-team/keras and we created a PR
> > > <https://github.com/keras-team/keras/pull/9291> as well. However, due
> to
> > > multiple design incompatibility challenges, we need significant re-work
> > on
> > > MXNet Module, KVStore, Optimizers to address keras-team design
> concerns.
> > > Since, we are adhering to keras API interface exposed to users, we are
> > > planning release on the forked repo for now. More details on the design
> > > challenges and workaround tried -
> > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vn5ip5MzCKcN29KCCnwjB2d59y-
> > > VevdLrdn_eNd3nE4/edit?usp=sharing
> > >
> >
>
Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
Posted by Xingjian SHI <xs...@connect.ust.hk>.
-1. We do not need to get the eyeballs this way. Asking users to use features that are not mature enough will only hurt the future development of MXNet.
Xingjian
________________________________
From: Naveen Swamy <mn...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2018 2:54 AM
To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
The proposal is about bringing a forked version of Keras(that works only
with MXNet) into Apache MXNet repo submodule that way MXNet gets more
eyeballs from existing Keras users and eventually Gluon, etc., , like
Sandeep mentioned Keras has a large user base which MXNet could tap into.
On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 11:50 AM, Yao Wang <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> -1 Creating Keras as submodule of MXNet will provide users a feeling that
> MXNet depends on Keras. Keras is a frontend library which can be supported
> by various different backend framework. It would be better to add backend
> framework as Keras's submodule(Keras depends on MXNet) rather than
> opposite.
>
> Best,
> Yao
>
> 2018-03-23 11:44 GMT-07:00 Xingjian SHI <xs...@connect.ust.hk>:
>
> > -1. I think we should wait until it's merged into keras-team/keras. The
> > repo is still not mature enough.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Xingjian
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: sandeep krishnamurthy <sa...@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 1:49 PM
> > To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
> >
> > Hello MXNet Community,
> >
> > Along with Lai, Karan and other MXNet contributors, I am working on
> adding
> > MXNet backend for Keras. Currently supporting around ~70% of Keras APIs
> > across CNNs and RNNs.
> > https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend
[https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4]<https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
github.com
keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano, or CNTK.
> > [https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4]<https://
> > github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> >
> > deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning-
> > tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> > github.com
> > keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano, or
> > CNTK.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > We wanted to gather the community feedback on the proposal for including
> > this keras-mxnet package as a submodule in Apache MXNet. This will enable
> > providing the Keras interface for MXNet users. MXNet users can choose
> Keras
> > interface for building their Neural Networks in Symbolic Mode (Ex:
> > mx.keras).
> >
> > *Advantages:*
> >
> > 1. Keras is widely popular interface that many DL practitioners are
> > familiar. By including keras interface within MXNet natively, we enable
> > many users to use MXNet with 0 learning curve.
> >
> > 2. Adding as submodule and exposing natively within MXNet pip package,
> > would greatly enhance user experience and get more users as compared to
> > releasing a fork repository independently.
> >
> > 3. Why submodule? - Helps in easily managing with patching the latest
> > parent keras-team/keras developments and releases. Thereby helping us
> > provide users the core keras experience. Operational management.
> >
> > 4. Other minor advantages - Operational maintenance, pip, CI and quality
> > control.
> >
> > Please do share your comments on the proposal.
> >
> > Best,
> > Sandeep
> >
> > *Note: *We tried merging with keras-team/keras and we created a PR
> > <https://github.com/keras-team/keras/pull/9291> as well. However, due to
> > multiple design incompatibility challenges, we need significant re-work
> on
> > MXNet Module, KVStore, Optimizers to address keras-team design concerns.
> > Since, we are adhering to keras API interface exposed to users, we are
> > planning release on the forked repo for now. More details on the design
> > challenges and workaround tried -
> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vn5ip5MzCKcN29KCCnwjB2d59y-
> > VevdLrdn_eNd3nE4/edit?usp=sharing
> >
>
Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
Posted by Yuan Tang <te...@gmail.com>.
-1 I don't think this has significant difference. The adoption from
existing Keras users will only come once it's landed in Keras repo. I doubt
that many people will use it unless it's more stable and backward
compatibility is guaranteed.
On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 2:54 PM, Naveen Swamy <mn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The proposal is about bringing a forked version of Keras(that works only
> with MXNet) into Apache MXNet repo submodule that way MXNet gets more
> eyeballs from existing Keras users and eventually Gluon, etc., , like
> Sandeep mentioned Keras has a large user base which MXNet could tap into.
>
> On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 11:50 AM, Yao Wang <ke...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > -1 Creating Keras as submodule of MXNet will provide users a feeling that
> > MXNet depends on Keras. Keras is a frontend library which can be
> supported
> > by various different backend framework. It would be better to add backend
> > framework as Keras's submodule(Keras depends on MXNet) rather than
> > opposite.
> >
> > Best,
> > Yao
> >
> > 2018-03-23 11:44 GMT-07:00 Xingjian SHI <xs...@connect.ust.hk>:
> >
> > > -1. I think we should wait until it's merged into keras-team/keras. The
> > > repo is still not mature enough.
> > >
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Xingjian
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: sandeep krishnamurthy <sa...@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 1:49 PM
> > > To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
> > >
> > > Hello MXNet Community,
> > >
> > > Along with Lai, Karan and other MXNet contributors, I am working on
> > adding
> > > MXNet backend for Keras. Currently supporting around ~70% of Keras APIs
> > > across CNNs and RNNs.
> > > https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend
> > > [https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4]<https://
> > > github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> > >
> > > deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning-
> > > tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> > > github.com
> > > keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano,
> or
> > > CNTK.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We wanted to gather the community feedback on the proposal for
> including
> > > this keras-mxnet package as a submodule in Apache MXNet. This will
> enable
> > > providing the Keras interface for MXNet users. MXNet users can choose
> > Keras
> > > interface for building their Neural Networks in Symbolic Mode (Ex:
> > > mx.keras).
> > >
> > > *Advantages:*
> > >
> > > 1. Keras is widely popular interface that many DL practitioners are
> > > familiar. By including keras interface within MXNet natively, we enable
> > > many users to use MXNet with 0 learning curve.
> > >
> > > 2. Adding as submodule and exposing natively within MXNet pip package,
> > > would greatly enhance user experience and get more users as compared to
> > > releasing a fork repository independently.
> > >
> > > 3. Why submodule? - Helps in easily managing with patching the latest
> > > parent keras-team/keras developments and releases. Thereby helping us
> > > provide users the core keras experience. Operational management.
> > >
> > > 4. Other minor advantages - Operational maintenance, pip, CI and
> quality
> > > control.
> > >
> > > Please do share your comments on the proposal.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Sandeep
> > >
> > > *Note: *We tried merging with keras-team/keras and we created a PR
> > > <https://github.com/keras-team/keras/pull/9291> as well. However, due
> to
> > > multiple design incompatibility challenges, we need significant re-work
> > on
> > > MXNet Module, KVStore, Optimizers to address keras-team design
> concerns.
> > > Since, we are adhering to keras API interface exposed to users, we are
> > > planning release on the forked repo for now. More details on the design
> > > challenges and workaround tried -
> > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vn5ip5MzCKcN29KCCnwjB2d59y-
> > > VevdLrdn_eNd3nE4/edit?usp=sharing
> > >
> >
>
Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
Posted by Naveen Swamy <mn...@gmail.com>.
The proposal is about bringing a forked version of Keras(that works only
with MXNet) into Apache MXNet repo submodule that way MXNet gets more
eyeballs from existing Keras users and eventually Gluon, etc., , like
Sandeep mentioned Keras has a large user base which MXNet could tap into.
On Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 11:50 AM, Yao Wang <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> -1 Creating Keras as submodule of MXNet will provide users a feeling that
> MXNet depends on Keras. Keras is a frontend library which can be supported
> by various different backend framework. It would be better to add backend
> framework as Keras's submodule(Keras depends on MXNet) rather than
> opposite.
>
> Best,
> Yao
>
> 2018-03-23 11:44 GMT-07:00 Xingjian SHI <xs...@connect.ust.hk>:
>
> > -1. I think we should wait until it's merged into keras-team/keras. The
> > repo is still not mature enough.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Xingjian
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: sandeep krishnamurthy <sa...@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 1:49 PM
> > To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
> >
> > Hello MXNet Community,
> >
> > Along with Lai, Karan and other MXNet contributors, I am working on
> adding
> > MXNet backend for Keras. Currently supporting around ~70% of Keras APIs
> > across CNNs and RNNs.
> > https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend
> > [https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4]<https://
> > github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> >
> > deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning-
> > tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> > github.com
> > keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano, or
> > CNTK.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > We wanted to gather the community feedback on the proposal for including
> > this keras-mxnet package as a submodule in Apache MXNet. This will enable
> > providing the Keras interface for MXNet users. MXNet users can choose
> Keras
> > interface for building their Neural Networks in Symbolic Mode (Ex:
> > mx.keras).
> >
> > *Advantages:*
> >
> > 1. Keras is widely popular interface that many DL practitioners are
> > familiar. By including keras interface within MXNet natively, we enable
> > many users to use MXNet with 0 learning curve.
> >
> > 2. Adding as submodule and exposing natively within MXNet pip package,
> > would greatly enhance user experience and get more users as compared to
> > releasing a fork repository independently.
> >
> > 3. Why submodule? - Helps in easily managing with patching the latest
> > parent keras-team/keras developments and releases. Thereby helping us
> > provide users the core keras experience. Operational management.
> >
> > 4. Other minor advantages - Operational maintenance, pip, CI and quality
> > control.
> >
> > Please do share your comments on the proposal.
> >
> > Best,
> > Sandeep
> >
> > *Note: *We tried merging with keras-team/keras and we created a PR
> > <https://github.com/keras-team/keras/pull/9291> as well. However, due to
> > multiple design incompatibility challenges, we need significant re-work
> on
> > MXNet Module, KVStore, Optimizers to address keras-team design concerns.
> > Since, we are adhering to keras API interface exposed to users, we are
> > planning release on the forked repo for now. More details on the design
> > challenges and workaround tried -
> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vn5ip5MzCKcN29KCCnwjB2d59y-
> > VevdLrdn_eNd3nE4/edit?usp=sharing
> >
>
Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
Posted by Yao Wang <ke...@gmail.com>.
-1 Creating Keras as submodule of MXNet will provide users a feeling that
MXNet depends on Keras. Keras is a frontend library which can be supported
by various different backend framework. It would be better to add backend
framework as Keras's submodule(Keras depends on MXNet) rather than opposite.
Best,
Yao
2018-03-23 11:44 GMT-07:00 Xingjian SHI <xs...@connect.ust.hk>:
> -1. I think we should wait until it's merged into keras-team/keras. The
> repo is still not mature enough.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Xingjian
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: sandeep krishnamurthy <sa...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 1:49 PM
> To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
>
> Hello MXNet Community,
>
> Along with Lai, Karan and other MXNet contributors, I am working on adding
> MXNet backend for Keras. Currently supporting around ~70% of Keras APIs
> across CNNs and RNNs.
> https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend
> [https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4]<https://
> github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
>
> deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning-
> tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
> github.com
> keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano, or
> CNTK.
>
>
>
>
> We wanted to gather the community feedback on the proposal for including
> this keras-mxnet package as a submodule in Apache MXNet. This will enable
> providing the Keras interface for MXNet users. MXNet users can choose Keras
> interface for building their Neural Networks in Symbolic Mode (Ex:
> mx.keras).
>
> *Advantages:*
>
> 1. Keras is widely popular interface that many DL practitioners are
> familiar. By including keras interface within MXNet natively, we enable
> many users to use MXNet with 0 learning curve.
>
> 2. Adding as submodule and exposing natively within MXNet pip package,
> would greatly enhance user experience and get more users as compared to
> releasing a fork repository independently.
>
> 3. Why submodule? - Helps in easily managing with patching the latest
> parent keras-team/keras developments and releases. Thereby helping us
> provide users the core keras experience. Operational management.
>
> 4. Other minor advantages - Operational maintenance, pip, CI and quality
> control.
>
> Please do share your comments on the proposal.
>
> Best,
> Sandeep
>
> *Note: *We tried merging with keras-team/keras and we created a PR
> <https://github.com/keras-team/keras/pull/9291> as well. However, due to
> multiple design incompatibility challenges, we need significant re-work on
> MXNet Module, KVStore, Optimizers to address keras-team design concerns.
> Since, we are adhering to keras API interface exposed to users, we are
> planning release on the forked repo for now. More details on the design
> challenges and workaround tried -
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vn5ip5MzCKcN29KCCnwjB2d59y-
> VevdLrdn_eNd3nE4/edit?usp=sharing
>
Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
Posted by Xingjian SHI <xs...@connect.ust.hk>.
-1. I think we should wait until it's merged into keras-team/keras. The repo is still not mature enough.
Best,
Xingjian
________________________________
From: sandeep krishnamurthy <sa...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 1:49 PM
To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
Hello MXNet Community,
Along with Lai, Karan and other MXNet contributors, I am working on adding
MXNet backend for Keras. Currently supporting around ~70% of Keras APIs
across CNNs and RNNs.
https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend
[https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/32447491?s=400&v=4]<https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
deep-learning-tools/keras<https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend>
github.com
keras - Deep Learning library for Python. Runs on TensorFlow, Theano, or CNTK.
We wanted to gather the community feedback on the proposal for including
this keras-mxnet package as a submodule in Apache MXNet. This will enable
providing the Keras interface for MXNet users. MXNet users can choose Keras
interface for building their Neural Networks in Symbolic Mode (Ex:
mx.keras).
*Advantages:*
1. Keras is widely popular interface that many DL practitioners are
familiar. By including keras interface within MXNet natively, we enable
many users to use MXNet with 0 learning curve.
2. Adding as submodule and exposing natively within MXNet pip package,
would greatly enhance user experience and get more users as compared to
releasing a fork repository independently.
3. Why submodule? - Helps in easily managing with patching the latest
parent keras-team/keras developments and releases. Thereby helping us
provide users the core keras experience. Operational management.
4. Other minor advantages - Operational maintenance, pip, CI and quality
control.
Please do share your comments on the proposal.
Best,
Sandeep
*Note: *We tried merging with keras-team/keras and we created a PR
<https://github.com/keras-team/keras/pull/9291> as well. However, due to
multiple design incompatibility challenges, we need significant re-work on
MXNet Module, KVStore, Optimizers to address keras-team design concerns.
Since, we are adhering to keras API interface exposed to users, we are
planning release on the forked repo for now. More details on the design
challenges and workaround tried -
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vn5ip5MzCKcN29KCCnwjB2d59y-VevdLrdn_eNd3nE4/edit?usp=sharing
Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
Posted by Zhi Zhang <zh...@apache.org>.
On 2018/03/23 05:49:07, sandeep krishnamurthy <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello MXNet Community,
>
> Along with Lai, Karan and other MXNet contributors, I am working on adding
> MXNet backend for Keras. Currently supporting around ~70% of Keras APIs
> across CNNs and RNNs.
> https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend
>
> We wanted to gather the community feedback on the proposal for including
> this keras-mxnet package as a submodule in Apache MXNet. This will enable
> providing the Keras interface for MXNet users. MXNet users can choose Keras
> interface for building their Neural Networks in Symbolic Mode (Ex:
> mx.keras).
>
> *Advantages:*
>
> 1. Keras is widely popular interface that many DL practitioners are
> familiar. By including keras interface within MXNet natively, we enable
> many users to use MXNet with 0 learning curve.
>
> 2. Adding as submodule and exposing natively within MXNet pip package,
> would greatly enhance user experience and get more users as compared to
> releasing a fork repository independently.
>
> 3. Why submodule? - Helps in easily managing with patching the latest
> parent keras-team/keras developments and releases. Thereby helping us
> provide users the core keras experience. Operational management.
>
> 4. Other minor advantages - Operational maintenance, pip, CI and quality
> control.
>
> Please do share your comments on the proposal.
>
> Best,
> Sandeep
>
> *Note: *We tried merging with keras-team/keras and we created a PR
> <https://github.com/keras-team/keras/pull/9291> as well. However, due to
> multiple design incompatibility challenges, we need significant re-work on
> MXNet Module, KVStore, Optimizers to address keras-team design concerns.
> Since, we are adhering to keras API interface exposed to users, we are
> planning release on the forked repo for now. More details on the design
> challenges and workaround tried -
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vn5ip5MzCKcN29KCCnwjB2d59y-VevdLrdn_eNd3nE4/edit?usp=sharing
> -1.
Submodules implies that they are to be used as dependencies. Apparently it is not the case.
Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
Posted by Eric Xie <jx...@apache.org>.
-1
If you make MXNet a submodule of keras, then you should PR that to keras.
If you want something like mxnet.keras, then you should do a full rewrite that only keeps the keras interface.
On 2018/03/23 05:49:07, sandeep krishnamurthy <sa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello MXNet Community,
>
> Along with Lai, Karan and other MXNet contributors, I am working on adding
> MXNet backend for Keras. Currently supporting around ~70% of Keras APIs
> across CNNs and RNNs.
> https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend
>
> We wanted to gather the community feedback on the proposal for including
> this keras-mxnet package as a submodule in Apache MXNet. This will enable
> providing the Keras interface for MXNet users. MXNet users can choose Keras
> interface for building their Neural Networks in Symbolic Mode (Ex:
> mx.keras).
>
> *Advantages:*
>
> 1. Keras is widely popular interface that many DL practitioners are
> familiar. By including keras interface within MXNet natively, we enable
> many users to use MXNet with 0 learning curve.
>
> 2. Adding as submodule and exposing natively within MXNet pip package,
> would greatly enhance user experience and get more users as compared to
> releasing a fork repository independently.
>
> 3. Why submodule? - Helps in easily managing with patching the latest
> parent keras-team/keras developments and releases. Thereby helping us
> provide users the core keras experience. Operational management.
>
> 4. Other minor advantages - Operational maintenance, pip, CI and quality
> control.
>
> Please do share your comments on the proposal.
>
> Best,
> Sandeep
>
> *Note: *We tried merging with keras-team/keras and we created a PR
> <https://github.com/keras-team/keras/pull/9291> as well. However, due to
> multiple design incompatibility challenges, we need significant re-work on
> MXNet Module, KVStore, Optimizers to address keras-team design concerns.
> Since, we are adhering to keras API interface exposed to users, we are
> planning release on the forked repo for now. More details on the design
> challenges and workaround tried -
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vn5ip5MzCKcN29KCCnwjB2d59y-VevdLrdn_eNd3nE4/edit?usp=sharing
>
Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
Posted by Naveen Swamy <mn...@gmail.com>.
+1
> On Mar 22, 2018, at 11:11 PM, Chris Olivier <cj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> +1
>
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 10:49 PM sandeep krishnamurthy <
> sandeep.krishna98@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello MXNet Community,
>>
>> Along with Lai, Karan and other MXNet contributors, I am working on adding
>> MXNet backend for Keras. Currently supporting around ~70% of Keras APIs
>> across CNNs and RNNs.
>> https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend
>>
>> We wanted to gather the community feedback on the proposal for including
>> this keras-mxnet package as a submodule in Apache MXNet. This will enable
>> providing the Keras interface for MXNet users. MXNet users can choose Keras
>> interface for building their Neural Networks in Symbolic Mode (Ex:
>> mx.keras).
>>
>> *Advantages:*
>>
>> 1. Keras is widely popular interface that many DL practitioners are
>> familiar. By including keras interface within MXNet natively, we enable
>> many users to use MXNet with 0 learning curve.
>>
>> 2. Adding as submodule and exposing natively within MXNet pip package,
>> would greatly enhance user experience and get more users as compared to
>> releasing a fork repository independently.
>>
>> 3. Why submodule? - Helps in easily managing with patching the latest
>> parent keras-team/keras developments and releases. Thereby helping us
>> provide users the core keras experience. Operational management.
>>
>> 4. Other minor advantages - Operational maintenance, pip, CI and quality
>> control.
>>
>> Please do share your comments on the proposal.
>>
>> Best,
>> Sandeep
>>
>> *Note: *We tried merging with keras-team/keras and we created a PR
>> <https://github.com/keras-team/keras/pull/9291> as well. However, due to
>> multiple design incompatibility challenges, we need significant re-work on
>> MXNet Module, KVStore, Optimizers to address keras-team design concerns.
>> Since, we are adhering to keras API interface exposed to users, we are
>> planning release on the forked repo for now. More details on the design
>> challenges and workaround tried -
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vn5ip5MzCKcN29KCCnwjB2d59y-VevdLrdn_eNd3nE4/edit?usp=sharing
>>
Re: Request for comments - Keras-MXNet as submodule in MXNet
Posted by Chris Olivier <cj...@gmail.com>.
+1
On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 10:49 PM sandeep krishnamurthy <
sandeep.krishna98@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello MXNet Community,
>
> Along with Lai, Karan and other MXNet contributors, I am working on adding
> MXNet backend for Keras. Currently supporting around ~70% of Keras APIs
> across CNNs and RNNs.
> https://github.com/deep-learning-tools/keras/tree/keras2_mxnet_backend
>
> We wanted to gather the community feedback on the proposal for including
> this keras-mxnet package as a submodule in Apache MXNet. This will enable
> providing the Keras interface for MXNet users. MXNet users can choose Keras
> interface for building their Neural Networks in Symbolic Mode (Ex:
> mx.keras).
>
> *Advantages:*
>
> 1. Keras is widely popular interface that many DL practitioners are
> familiar. By including keras interface within MXNet natively, we enable
> many users to use MXNet with 0 learning curve.
>
> 2. Adding as submodule and exposing natively within MXNet pip package,
> would greatly enhance user experience and get more users as compared to
> releasing a fork repository independently.
>
> 3. Why submodule? - Helps in easily managing with patching the latest
> parent keras-team/keras developments and releases. Thereby helping us
> provide users the core keras experience. Operational management.
>
> 4. Other minor advantages - Operational maintenance, pip, CI and quality
> control.
>
> Please do share your comments on the proposal.
>
> Best,
> Sandeep
>
> *Note: *We tried merging with keras-team/keras and we created a PR
> <https://github.com/keras-team/keras/pull/9291> as well. However, due to
> multiple design incompatibility challenges, we need significant re-work on
> MXNet Module, KVStore, Optimizers to address keras-team design concerns.
> Since, we are adhering to keras API interface exposed to users, we are
> planning release on the forked repo for now. More details on the design
> challenges and workaround tried -
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vn5ip5MzCKcN29KCCnwjB2d59y-VevdLrdn_eNd3nE4/edit?usp=sharing
>