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Posted to dev@sling.apache.org by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org> on 2020/05/04 13:18:30 UTC
Do we still need https://sling.apache.org/releases.html ?
Hi,
The releases info now goes to
https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/statistics, which nags us to add it
when we make a release.
Is anyone opposed to deprecating
https://sling.apache.org/releases.html ? We might indicate that that
page is only valid until a certain date, and point to point to the
reporter info.
-Bertrand
Re: Do we still need https://sling.apache.org/releases.html ?
Posted by Robert Munteanu <ro...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 2020-05-05 at 10:18 +0200, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> Right, thanks Robert
>
> So the question is, whether we want or need to keep three lists.
> We have:
> - the reporter data
> - the releases page
> - the downloads list/page
>
> I'm usually not updating the reporter data on a release and it seems
> others are not doing that either. The same happens sometimes to the
> web
> site, especially the download list.
> Bottom line, the three sources get out of sync today.
Well, that's a shame :-)
>
> Automation and generation brings up another problem: technical names
> vs
> human friendly names. If you look at the reporter data, we have there
> "Servlets Post 2.3.6" as well as "org.apache.sling.servlets.post
> 2.3.8".
>
> Now for all user facing info, I think the human friendly names are
> much
> better ("Servlets Post x.y.z").
+1 on human-friendly names. I think that the if we get a hold of the
jar files we can also get the friendly name from the pom or from the
MANIFEST. "Just" a little bit more work.
Thanks,
Robert
>
> Overall, this can become a very complicated thing. I'm not saying we
> should not solve it, but I think there is more to it than just
> identifying the single source of truth
>
> Carsten
>
>
> On 05.05.2020 10:05, Robert Munteanu wrote:
> > Here's what I dug up on that (emphasis mine)
> >
> > The PMC MUST submit a quarterly report to the board [1]. The board
> > reporting guidelines [2] have a REQUIRED section titled "When did
> > the
> > project last make any releases?".
> >
> > In [1] it is mentioned that (the PMC) CAN use the Apache Committee
> > Reporter tool to simplify some data collection for (the) report.
> >
> > We also have an item in our release management document [3] that
> > mentions the reporter service.
> >
> > What I take out of this is that the reporter tool is not mandatory,
> > but
> > keeping a record of releases so they are included in the board
> > report
> > it. In practice, I have been using the reporter tool to generate
> > the
> > board report, and not the list on our website.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Robert
> >
> > [1]:
> > https://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#ensure-the-projects-quarterly-board-report-is-submitted
> > [2]: https://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
> > [3]:
> > https://sling.apache.org/documentation/development/release-management.html#promoting-the-release-1
> >
Re: Do we still need https://sling.apache.org/releases.html ?
Posted by Robert Munteanu <ro...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 2020-05-05 at 11:21 +0200, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 10:18 AM Carsten Ziegeler <
> cziegeler@apache.org> wrote:
> > ...So the question is, whether we want or need to keep three lists.
> > We have:
> > - the reporter data
> > - the releases page
> > - the downloads list/page ..
>
> Good point, I only considered the first two so far.
>
> We actually also have Maven Central which has everything, it
> shouldn't
> be too hard to generate a release history from that?
>
> I wrote an ugly script [2] that scrapes the HTML of
> https://repo1.maven.org/maven2, and I suppose there's a Maven
> repository API that does this in a much cleaner way?
I would not know about an API, but I think the primary source of
information is the dist area. We should be able to generate a list of
newly released timestamps using timestamps, SVN log or maybe even svn
pubsub.
> We could then compute (or update incrementally) that releases data
> file in the website generation process, and if desired overwrite [1]
> regularly from a variant of that data for reporter.a.o
That would be an interesting option. So if we would schedule the
website build to run daily, as opposed to only on push events, we can
get the news out every 24 hours, and do away with the manual work.
If anyone wants to pick that up, I'd be happy to help with whatever
Jenkins-related changes we would need.
Thanks,
Robert
> -Bertrand
>
> [1]
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/reporter.apache.org/trunk/data/releases/sling.json
> [2] Script at
> https://gist.github.com/bdelacretaz/b1a9f13d6ebe60348076ffe1b2e6cebc
> , here's the output (which is missing a few things - just a rough
> proof of concept):
>
> adapter-annotations/ 1.0.0/ 2012-01-12
> apache-sling-jar-resource-bundle/ 1.0.0/ 2011-08-31
> htl-maven-plugin/ 1.0.0/ 2016-09-05
> htl-maven-plugin/ 1.0.2/ 2016-10-31
> ...
> htl-maven-plugin/ 1.3.2-1.4.0/ 2019-12-02
> htl-maven-plugin/ 1.3.4-1.4.0/ 2019-12-06
> ide/ org.apache.sling.ide.api-test/ -
> ide/ org.apache.sling.ide.api/ -
> ..
> iavaversion-maven-plugin/ 1.0.0/ 2017-09-01
> jspc-maven-plugin/ 2.1.0/ 2017-06-12
> ...
> maven-jspc-plugin/ 2.0.2-incubator/ 2009-06-13
> maven-jspc-plugin/ 2.0.4-incubator/ 2009-05-13
> maven-jspc-plugin/ 2.0.6/ 2012-01-31
> maven-jspc-plugin/ 2.0.8/ 2013-12-10
Re: Do we still need https://sling.apache.org/releases.html ?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 10:18 AM Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...So the question is, whether we want or need to keep three lists.
> We have:
> - the reporter data
> - the releases page
> - the downloads list/page ..
Good point, I only considered the first two so far.
We actually also have Maven Central which has everything, it shouldn't
be too hard to generate a release history from that?
I wrote an ugly script [2] that scrapes the HTML of
https://repo1.maven.org/maven2, and I suppose there's a Maven
repository API that does this in a much cleaner way?
We could then compute (or update incrementally) that releases data
file in the website generation process, and if desired overwrite [1]
regularly from a variant of that data for reporter.a.o
-Bertrand
[1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/reporter.apache.org/trunk/data/releases/sling.json
[2] Script at https://gist.github.com/bdelacretaz/b1a9f13d6ebe60348076ffe1b2e6cebc
, here's the output (which is missing a few things - just a rough
proof of concept):
adapter-annotations/ 1.0.0/ 2012-01-12
apache-sling-jar-resource-bundle/ 1.0.0/ 2011-08-31
htl-maven-plugin/ 1.0.0/ 2016-09-05
htl-maven-plugin/ 1.0.2/ 2016-10-31
...
htl-maven-plugin/ 1.3.2-1.4.0/ 2019-12-02
htl-maven-plugin/ 1.3.4-1.4.0/ 2019-12-06
ide/ org.apache.sling.ide.api-test/ -
ide/ org.apache.sling.ide.api/ -
..
iavaversion-maven-plugin/ 1.0.0/ 2017-09-01
jspc-maven-plugin/ 2.1.0/ 2017-06-12
...
maven-jspc-plugin/ 2.0.2-incubator/ 2009-06-13
maven-jspc-plugin/ 2.0.4-incubator/ 2009-05-13
maven-jspc-plugin/ 2.0.6/ 2012-01-31
maven-jspc-plugin/ 2.0.8/ 2013-12-10
Re: Do we still need https://sling.apache.org/releases.html ?
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.
Right, thanks Robert
So the question is, whether we want or need to keep three lists.
We have:
- the reporter data
- the releases page
- the downloads list/page
I'm usually not updating the reporter data on a release and it seems
others are not doing that either. The same happens sometimes to the web
site, especially the download list.
Bottom line, the three sources get out of sync today.
Automation and generation brings up another problem: technical names vs
human friendly names. If you look at the reporter data, we have there
"Servlets Post 2.3.6" as well as "org.apache.sling.servlets.post 2.3.8".
Now for all user facing info, I think the human friendly names are much
better ("Servlets Post x.y.z").
Overall, this can become a very complicated thing. I'm not saying we
should not solve it, but I think there is more to it than just
identifying the single source of truth
Carsten
On 05.05.2020 10:05, Robert Munteanu wrote:
>
> Here's what I dug up on that (emphasis mine)
>
> The PMC MUST submit a quarterly report to the board [1]. The board
> reporting guidelines [2] have a REQUIRED section titled "When did the
> project last make any releases?".
>
> In [1] it is mentioned that (the PMC) CAN use the Apache Committee
> Reporter tool to simplify some data collection for (the) report.
>
> We also have an item in our release management document [3] that
> mentions the reporter service.
>
> What I take out of this is that the reporter tool is not mandatory, but
> keeping a record of releases so they are included in the board report
> it. In practice, I have been using the reporter tool to generate the
> board report, and not the list on our website.
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
>
> [1]: https://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#ensure-the-projects-quarterly-board-report-is-submitted
> [2]: https://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
> [3]: https://sling.apache.org/documentation/development/release-management.html#promoting-the-release-1
>
--
--
Carsten Ziegeler
Adobe Research Switzerland
cziegeler@apache.org
Re: Do we still need https://sling.apache.org/releases.html ?
Posted by Robert Munteanu <ro...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 2020-05-05 at 08:11 +0200, Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
> On 04.05.2020 16:36, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> > On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 4:22 PM Carsten Ziegeler <
> > cziegeler@apache.org> wrote:
> > > ...Today, if someone forgets to add a release to our webpage, we
> > > can easily
> > > fix that later on by editing that page and adding an old release.
> > > Is
> > > that possible with the reporter, too?..
> >
> > Yes, the reporter nags us with
> > https://reporter.apache.org/addrelease.html?sling and we can use
> > that
> > form at any time to add missing releases.
> >
> > > ...Or in other words, todays release page is very easy to
> > > maintain - and
> > > for a release you have to edit the downloads page anyway. At
> > > first look,
> > > relying on the reporter data seems to be more complicated...
> >
> > I think it depends whether we agree that the reporter.a.o data is
> > required - if that's a yes, maintaining our own page duplicates
> > data.
> >
>
> Right, so lets talk about that first :)
Here's what I dug up on that (emphasis mine)
The PMC MUST submit a quarterly report to the board [1]. The board
reporting guidelines [2] have a REQUIRED section titled "When did the
project last make any releases?".
In [1] it is mentioned that (the PMC) CAN use the Apache Committee
Reporter tool to simplify some data collection for (the) report.
We also have an item in our release management document [3] that
mentions the reporter service.
What I take out of this is that the reporter tool is not mandatory, but
keeping a record of releases so they are included in the board report
it. In practice, I have been using the reporter tool to generate the
board report, and not the list on our website.
Thanks,
Robert
[1]: https://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#ensure-the-projects-quarterly-board-report-is-submitted
[2]: https://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
[3]: https://sling.apache.org/documentation/development/release-management.html#promoting-the-release-1
Re: Do we still need https://sling.apache.org/releases.html ?
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.
On 04.05.2020 16:36, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 4:22 PM Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org> wrote:
>> ...Today, if someone forgets to add a release to our webpage, we can easily
>> fix that later on by editing that page and adding an old release. Is
>> that possible with the reporter, too?..
>
> Yes, the reporter nags us with
> https://reporter.apache.org/addrelease.html?sling and we can use that
> form at any time to add missing releases.
>
>> ...Or in other words, todays release page is very easy to maintain - and
>> for a release you have to edit the downloads page anyway. At first look,
>> relying on the reporter data seems to be more complicated...
>
> I think it depends whether we agree that the reporter.a.o data is
> required - if that's a yes, maintaining our own page duplicates data.
>
Right, so lets talk about that first :)
Regards
Carsten
--
--
Carsten Ziegeler
Adobe Research Switzerland
cziegeler@apache.org
Re: Do we still need https://sling.apache.org/releases.html ?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 4:22 PM Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...Today, if someone forgets to add a release to our webpage, we can easily
> fix that later on by editing that page and adding an old release. Is
> that possible with the reporter, too?..
Yes, the reporter nags us with
https://reporter.apache.org/addrelease.html?sling and we can use that
form at any time to add missing releases.
> ...Or in other words, todays release page is very easy to maintain - and
> for a release you have to edit the downloads page anyway. At first look,
> relying on the reporter data seems to be more complicated...
I think it depends whether we agree that the reporter.a.o data is
required - if that's a yes, maintaining our own page duplicates data.
-Bertrand
Re: Do we still need https://sling.apache.org/releases.html ?
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.
Many releases are missing from that data.
Today, if someone forgets to add a release to our webpage, we can easily
fix that later on by editing that page and adding an old release. Is
that possible with the reporter, too?
Or in other words, todays release page is very easy to maintain - and
for a release you have to edit the downloads page anyway. At first look,
relying on the reporter data seems to be more complicated.
Carsten
On 04.05.2020 16:04, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 3:56 PM Bertrand Delacretaz
> <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>> ...It looks like that reporter website belongs to
>> http://community.apache.org/, I'll ask there if that releases data or
>> page could be made public...
>
> turns out that the release data itself is already public,
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/reporter.apache.org/trunk/data/releases/sling.json
>
> I'll look at how to merge that automatically in
> https://sling.apache.org/releases.html , we already have some similar
> processing in the website for [1]
>
> -Bertrand
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/sling-site/blob/master/src/main/jbake/templates/repolist.tpl
>
--
--
Carsten Ziegeler
Adobe Research Switzerland
cziegeler@apache.org
Re: Do we still need https://sling.apache.org/releases.html ?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 3:56 PM Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...It looks like that reporter website belongs to
> http://community.apache.org/, I'll ask there if that releases data or
> page could be made public...
turns out that the release data itself is already public,
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/comdev/reporter.apache.org/trunk/data/releases/sling.json
I'll look at how to merge that automatically in
https://sling.apache.org/releases.html , we already have some similar
processing in the website for [1]
-Bertrand
[1] https://github.com/apache/sling-site/blob/master/src/main/jbake/templates/repolist.tpl
Re: Do we still need https://sling.apache.org/releases.html ?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 3:21 PM Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Where can I see the release info for Sling?..
At https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/statistics?sling but as Dan
notes that requires an Apache committer login.
It looks like that reporter website belongs to
http://community.apache.org/, I'll ask there if that releases data or
page could be made public.
-Bertrand
Re: Do we still need https://sling.apache.org/releases.html ?
Posted by Daniel Klco <da...@gmail.com>.
AFAIK, they serve two different purposes, releases.html is a public list of
all releases made by Sling whereas the reporter wizard requires login with
Apache credentials.
It would be nice if the releases.html could be driven off the ASF database,
but I'm not sure that's possible as it seems to require authentication.
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 9:21 AM Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Where can I see the release info for Sling?
>
>
> Carsten
>
> On 04.05.2020 15:18, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > The releases info now goes to
> > https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/statistics, which nags us to add it
> > when we make a release.
> >
> > Is anyone opposed to deprecating
> > https://sling.apache.org/releases.html ? We might indicate that that
> > page is only valid until a certain date, and point to point to the
> > reporter info.
> >
> > -Bertrand
> >
>
> --
> --
> Carsten Ziegeler
> Adobe Research Switzerland
> cziegeler@apache.org
>
Re: Do we still need https://sling.apache.org/releases.html ?
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.
Where can I see the release info for Sling?
Carsten
On 04.05.2020 15:18, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The releases info now goes to
> https://reporter.apache.org/wizard/statistics, which nags us to add it
> when we make a release.
>
> Is anyone opposed to deprecating
> https://sling.apache.org/releases.html ? We might indicate that that
> page is only valid until a certain date, and point to point to the
> reporter info.
>
> -Bertrand
>
--
--
Carsten Ziegeler
Adobe Research Switzerland
cziegeler@apache.org