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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by David Jumani <Da...@shapeblue.com> on 2021/09/01 05:11:10 UTC
Re: [Discussion] Release Cycle
Hi Gabriel,
1. I'm a +1 on having regular releases between LTS ones and the reasoning behind it. While stability is great, it will also be nice to have a "pilot" as you mentioned which the community can test and issues are resolved in the following LTS, rather than waiting for 2 - 3 releases to get something allegedly stable in, which could still have issues reported by users.
2. I'm for having 1 Regular release (Mar-Apr) followed by an LTS one (~6 months down the line) each year. Wrt the LTS releases, they should be supported for 1.5 to 2 years (at least 6 months after the following LTS is out). If that might be too much then a single alternating release annually around the same dates
3. No strong opinion on this but it does seem like a good idea, but not sure how religiously people will update the new page with every feature they intend to add and follow up on it
________________________________
From: Gabriel Bräscher <ga...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2021 11:14 PM
To: dev <de...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Subject: [Discussion] Release Cycle
Hello,
I would like to open a discussion regarding the project release cycle. More
specifically on the following topics:
1. LTS and Regular releases
2. Releases period
3. Enhance roadmap and Release cycle for users
#### 1 LTS and Regular releases
It has been a while since the last regular release. Nowadays there are only
LTS releases; maybe we should get back to having regular versions in
between LTS.
With a “Regular” release users would be able to trade stability for new
features. Additionally, developers and users would have a “pilot” of the
next LTS which could anticipate issues and result in a stable long-term
release.
Please, let me know what you think of this. Should we get back to releasing
Regular releases in between LTS releases?
For reference, here follow the past releases:
+---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
| Release | Type | Release date | EOL |
+---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
| 4.15 | LTS | 19 Jan 2021 | 1 July 2022 |
+---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
| 4.14 | LTS | 26 May 2020 | 1 Jan 2022 |
+---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
| 4.13 | LTS | 24 Sep. 2019 | 1 May 2021 |
+---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
| 4.12 | Regular | 4 April 2019 | N/A |
+---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
| 4.11 | LTS | 12 Feb. 2018 | 1 July 2019 |
+---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
| 4.10 | Regular | 6 July 2017 | N/A |
+---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
| 4.9 | LTS | 25 July 2016 | 1 July 2018 |
+---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
#### 2 Releases period
We had in the past a new LTS per year. Then, we got into two new LTS per
year. This led from having 2 LTS maintained at the same time to 3.
With that said, I think this is neither documented nor has it been
discussed in the ML.
We have the LTS minimum and maximum support dates well defined, but so far
there is no definition/guidelines towards the release period.
I would like to open this discussion so we can update the CloudStack wiki
page [https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/LTS] and have
a clear definition of when the community should expect each release.
#### 3 Enhance roadmap and Release cycle for users
This topic is an extension of Topic 2. Once we have “Topic 2” well defined
we will be able to present a draft of future releases.
The main idea of this email is to look for project stability and
predictability with a release cycle/roadmap similar to what is done by
Ubuntu [https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle].
We would then be able to give users and developers a roadmap to look after.
I would also suggest such a release cycle to be presented on the website,
in addition to the “cwiki” page [
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/LTS].
Please let me know what you think.
Best regards,
Gabriel.
RE: [Discussion] Release Cycle
Posted by pa...@apache.org.
I think this discussion is a useful. BUT... Producing releases takes considerable effort and saying that we want a release every x months is all well and good, but historically there haven't been many people stepping up to coordinate them or do the spade work to close issues.
So, in tandem with a conversation regarding how often the community would like to see releases, needs to be "is 'the community' going to pull together to make it happen?"
Kind regards
Paul Angus
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierre-Luc Dion <pd...@apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 2, 2021 1:37 PM
To: dev <de...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [Discussion] Release Cycle
I like the notion of LTS every 2 years and having 1 or 2 regular releases per year, like the Ubuntu model.
Typically, upgrading our cloud from a major release is a big level of effort, especially around QA to make sure the upgrade does not affect customers.
So, having to jump between LTS every year or so could be challenging.
I'd be curious to know about other users' upgrade cycles.
On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 1:11 AM David Jumani <Da...@shapeblue.com>
wrote:
> Hi Gabriel,
>
>
> 1. I'm a +1 on having regular releases between LTS ones and the
> reasoning behind it. While stability is great, it will also be nice to
> have a "pilot" as you mentioned which the community can test and
> issues are resolved in the following LTS, rather than waiting for 2 -
> 3 releases to get something allegedly stable in, which could still
> have issues reported by users.
> 2. I'm for having 1 Regular release (Mar-Apr) followed by an LTS
> one
> (~6 months down the line) each year. Wrt the LTS releases, they should
> be supported for 1.5 to 2 years (at least 6 months after the following
> LTS is out). If that might be too much then a single alternating
> release annually around the same dates
> 3. No strong opinion on this but it does seem like a good idea, but
> not sure how religiously people will update the new page with every
> feature they intend to add and follow up on it
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gabriel Bräscher <ga...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2021 11:14 PM
> To: dev <de...@cloudstack.apache.org>
> Subject: [Discussion] Release Cycle
>
> Hello,
>
> I would like to open a discussion regarding the project release cycle.
> More specifically on the following topics:
>
> 1. LTS and Regular releases
>
> 2. Releases period
>
> 3. Enhance roadmap and Release cycle for users
>
> #### 1 LTS and Regular releases
>
> It has been a while since the last regular release. Nowadays there are
> only LTS releases; maybe we should get back to having regular versions
> in between LTS.
>
> With a “Regular” release users would be able to trade stability for
> new features. Additionally, developers and users would have a “pilot”
> of the next LTS which could anticipate issues and result in a stable
> long-term release.
>
> Please, let me know what you think of this. Should we get back to
> releasing Regular releases in between LTS releases?
>
> For reference, here follow the past releases:
>
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
> | Release | Type | Release date | EOL |
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
> | 4.15 | LTS | 19 Jan 2021 | 1 July 2022 |
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
> | 4.14 | LTS | 26 May 2020 | 1 Jan 2022 |
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
> | 4.13 | LTS | 24 Sep. 2019 | 1 May 2021 |
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
> | 4.12 | Regular | 4 April 2019 | N/A |
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
> | 4.11 | LTS | 12 Feb. 2018 | 1 July 2019 |
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
> | 4.10 | Regular | 6 July 2017 | N/A |
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
> | 4.9 | LTS | 25 July 2016 | 1 July 2018 |
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
>
> #### 2 Releases period
>
>
> We had in the past a new LTS per year. Then, we got into two new LTS
> per year. This led from having 2 LTS maintained at the same time to 3.
> With that said, I think this is neither documented nor has it been
> discussed in the ML.
>
> We have the LTS minimum and maximum support dates well defined, but so
> far there is no definition/guidelines towards the release period.
> I would like to open this discussion so we can update the CloudStack
> wiki page [https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/LTS]
> and have a clear definition of when the community should expect each release.
>
> #### 3 Enhance roadmap and Release cycle for users
>
> This topic is an extension of Topic 2. Once we have “Topic 2” well
> defined we will be able to present a draft of future releases.
>
> The main idea of this email is to look for project stability and
> predictability with a release cycle/roadmap similar to what is done by
> Ubuntu [https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle].
> We would then be able to give users and developers a roadmap to look after.
> I would also suggest such a release cycle to be presented on the
> website, in addition to the “cwiki” page [
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/LTS].
>
> Please let me know what you think.
>
> Best regards,
> Gabriel.
>
>
>
>
Re: [Discussion] Release Cycle
Posted by Pierre-Luc Dion <pd...@apache.org>.
I like the notion of LTS every 2 years and having 1 or 2 regular releases
per year, like the Ubuntu model.
Typically, upgrading our cloud from a major release is a big level of
effort, especially around QA to make sure the upgrade does not affect
customers.
So, having to jump between LTS every year or so could be challenging.
I'd be curious to know about other users' upgrade cycles.
On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 1:11 AM David Jumani <Da...@shapeblue.com>
wrote:
> Hi Gabriel,
>
>
> 1. I'm a +1 on having regular releases between LTS ones and the
> reasoning behind it. While stability is great, it will also be nice to have
> a "pilot" as you mentioned which the community can test and issues are
> resolved in the following LTS, rather than waiting for 2 - 3 releases to
> get something allegedly stable in, which could still have issues reported
> by users.
> 2. I'm for having 1 Regular release (Mar-Apr) followed by an LTS one
> (~6 months down the line) each year. Wrt the LTS releases, they should be
> supported for 1.5 to 2 years (at least 6 months after the following LTS is
> out). If that might be too much then a single alternating release annually
> around the same dates
> 3. No strong opinion on this but it does seem like a good idea, but not
> sure how religiously people will update the new page with every feature
> they intend to add and follow up on it
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gabriel Bräscher <ga...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2021 11:14 PM
> To: dev <de...@cloudstack.apache.org>
> Subject: [Discussion] Release Cycle
>
> Hello,
>
> I would like to open a discussion regarding the project release cycle. More
> specifically on the following topics:
>
> 1. LTS and Regular releases
>
> 2. Releases period
>
> 3. Enhance roadmap and Release cycle for users
>
> #### 1 LTS and Regular releases
>
> It has been a while since the last regular release. Nowadays there are only
> LTS releases; maybe we should get back to having regular versions in
> between LTS.
>
> With a “Regular” release users would be able to trade stability for new
> features. Additionally, developers and users would have a “pilot” of the
> next LTS which could anticipate issues and result in a stable long-term
> release.
>
> Please, let me know what you think of this. Should we get back to releasing
> Regular releases in between LTS releases?
>
> For reference, here follow the past releases:
>
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
> | Release | Type | Release date | EOL |
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
> | 4.15 | LTS | 19 Jan 2021 | 1 July 2022 |
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
> | 4.14 | LTS | 26 May 2020 | 1 Jan 2022 |
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
> | 4.13 | LTS | 24 Sep. 2019 | 1 May 2021 |
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
> | 4.12 | Regular | 4 April 2019 | N/A |
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
> | 4.11 | LTS | 12 Feb. 2018 | 1 July 2019 |
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
> | 4.10 | Regular | 6 July 2017 | N/A |
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
> | 4.9 | LTS | 25 July 2016 | 1 July 2018 |
> +---------+---------+--------------+-------------+
>
> #### 2 Releases period
>
>
> We had in the past a new LTS per year. Then, we got into two new LTS per
> year. This led from having 2 LTS maintained at the same time to 3.
> With that said, I think this is neither documented nor has it been
> discussed in the ML.
>
> We have the LTS minimum and maximum support dates well defined, but so far
> there is no definition/guidelines towards the release period.
> I would like to open this discussion so we can update the CloudStack wiki
> page [https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/LTS] and have
> a clear definition of when the community should expect each release.
>
> #### 3 Enhance roadmap and Release cycle for users
>
> This topic is an extension of Topic 2. Once we have “Topic 2” well defined
> we will be able to present a draft of future releases.
>
> The main idea of this email is to look for project stability and
> predictability with a release cycle/roadmap similar to what is done by
> Ubuntu [https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle].
> We would then be able to give users and developers a roadmap to look after.
> I would also suggest such a release cycle to be presented on the website,
> in addition to the “cwiki” page [
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/LTS].
>
> Please let me know what you think.
>
> Best regards,
> Gabriel.
>
>
>
>