You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@community.apache.org by Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de> on 2013/04/10 19:26:56 UTC
increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Folks,
I perceive a low interest of our projects in GSoC. The list of projects that submitted project ideas
that I compiled for Sally contained 33 entries of which some are subprojects I believe. With 138
PMCs plus 35 podlings, this is less than one fifth of our projects.
We only had 34 ideas one week before our application was due.
I run into committers that are not members of their projects PMCs who are eager to be mentors but
have no clue about what's going on because nobody from the PMC forwarded my emails to their dev lists.
So the problem seems twofold: no interest and not reaching the right people. The latter could be
improved by simply sending to committers@ instead of pmcs@ but it's the first that worries me.
I believe GSoC and every other opportunity to attract new contributors to our projects should be a
key priority of our PMCs. Apparently it's not, for whatever reasons. I could think of missing
cycles, indifference, and wrong priorities.
So what could we do to increase awareness for the opportunities GSoC offers and that this program is
important to the foundation? Write more emails? Ask the board to mandate a section in board reports
detailing the project's GSoC endeavors? Any ideas?
Uli
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>.
On 10.04.2013 19:35, janI wrote:
> On Apr 10, 2013 7:27 PM, "Ulrich Stärk" <ul...@spielviel.de> wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> I perceive a low interest of our projects in GSoC. The list of projects
> that submitted project ideas
>> that I compiled for Sally contained 33 entries of which some are
> subprojects I believe. With 138
>> PMCs plus 35 podlings, this is less than one fifth of our projects.
>>
>> We only had 34 ideas one week before our application was due.
>>
>> I run into committers that are not members of their projects PMCs who are
> eager to be mentors but
>> have no clue about what's going on because nobody from the PMC forwarded
> my emails to their dev lists.
>>
>> So the problem seems twofold: no interest and not reaching the right
> people. The latter could be
>> improved by simply sending to committers@ instead of pmcs@ but it's the
> first that worries me.
>>
>> I believe GSoC and every other opportunity to attract new contributors to
> our projects should be a
>> key priority of our PMCs. Apparently it's not, for whatever reasons. I
> could think of missing
>> cycles, indifference, and wrong priorities.
>>
>> So what could we do to increase awareness for the opportunities GSoC
> offers and that this program is
>> important to the foundation? Write more emails? Ask the board to mandate
> a section in board reports
>> detailing the project's GSoC endeavors? Any ideas?
>
> one suggestion would be to make an apache page, that in short tell
> 1) what should a proposal contain
> 2) what is required with asf to be mentor (on a asf project)
> 3) a short part about asf and our cooperation with google
> 4) How to proceed.
>
> I know you and others have e-mailed all that information, and quite a lot
> more. A page (which are referenced in the e-mail) would make it easy for
> someone like me, to get the information I need fast, and if I feel it, I
> can always find more details.
We have that and I referenced it in my emails: http://community.apache.org/gsoc.html
Uli
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On Apr 11, 2013, at 9:23 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
> Looking forward to next year, it would be good for us to encourage projects to have a GSoC tag in their ticket tracker to identify issues that would be good candidates for students. The folks at OpenHatch recommend clearly identifying tickets as entry-level, and then, rather than always cleaning up the so-called "low-hanging fruit", leaving them for entry-level people. Such an approach might be employed, say, 3-6 months out from GSoC, to start to identify good student projects.
>
> Granted, this leaves things undone, but that's probably ok, if our focus is indeed community over code.
I see email on February 15th, from Ross and others [1], recommending just this, but it went to comdev, and from there didn't appear to have propagated to the various dev or pmc lists. That's the step we need to be sure to make happen so that we can catch the ear of the people on each project who are anxious to see this happen.
Might be useful to identify which projects have representation on the comdev mailing list and which don't.
[1] - http://markmail.org/message/tl4do4miegk4v2e7 and thereabouts
--
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com
Shosholoza
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>wrote:
> Good point Luciano - we need to move to GSOC only - or better still
> something not linked to GSoC, e.g. mentored. A search and a batch update
> will do the job nicely. We can adjust our search to include GSoC, GSoC2013
> and mentored to catch those who didn't do the update.
>
> Ross
>
>
I think we have used mentor in the past (instead of mentored)...
We could do the batch update, but I'm afraid new ideas might come with the
gsoc2013 and get ignored, so we need to monitor it if the search don't
include that.
--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
Good point Luciano - we need to move to GSOC only - or better still
something not linked to GSoC, e.g. mentored. A search and a batch update
will do the job nicely. We can adjust our search to include GSoC, GSoC2013
and mentored to catch those who didn't do the update.
Ross
On 11 April 2013 17:07, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 7:38 AM, Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com
> >wrote:
>
> > On 11 April 2013 14:23, Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On Apr 10, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Mark Struberg wrote:
> > >
> > > > + it's also pretty hard to spin of small enough tasks which can be
> done
> > > in a GSoC project. Most of our projects need some really in-depth
> > knowledge
> > > prior to hacking a smallish task :/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Looking forward to next year, it would be good for us to encourage
> > > projects to have a GSoC tag in their ticket tracker to identify issues
> > that
> > > would be good candidates for students. The folks at OpenHatch recommend
> > > clearly identifying tickets as entry-level, and then, rather than
> always
> > > cleaning up the so-called "low-hanging fruit", leaving them for
> > entry-level
> > > people. Such an approach might be employed, say, 3-6 months out from
> > GSoC,
> > > to start to identify good student projects.
> > >
> >
> > We already do that. We could be more proactive about reminding projects
> to
> > mark issues throughout the year.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Granted, this leaves things undone, but that's probably ok, if our
> focus
> > > is indeed community over code.
> > >
> >
> > No problem if an issue is tagged GSoC but gets closed before GSoC comes
> > along.
> >
> > Ross
> >
> >
> One of the issues is that we keep using GSoC + year as tag, so we pretty
> much discard all the previous years project ideas that are still open. I
> think using something generic like GSoC would make our project idea look
> bigger without much overhead on mentors to prepare year over year.
>
> --
> Luciano Resende
> http://people.apache.org/~lresende
> http://twitter.com/lresende1975
> http://lresende.blogspot.com/
>
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 11 April 2013 23:30, Suresh Marru <sm...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Apr 11, 2013, at 12:07 PM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > One of the issues is that we keep using GSoC + year as tag, so we pretty
> > much discard all the previous years project ideas that are still open. I
> > think using something generic like GSoC would make our project idea look
> > bigger without much overhead on mentors to prepare year over year.
>
> I see that in 2013 ideas, there are JIRA's created all the way from 2005
> through 2013. I worry if you automatically carry over the issues to next
> year, we might end up with some unattended projects. What if the mentor
> (who proposed it previous year) does not have time or interest or the
> project is no longer relevant? I think it is not too much to expect from
> the mentor to go to the previous year JIRA's and change the tag from
> gsoc2012 to gsoc2013. If students are commenting on zombie ideas and do not
> get a response, that might not send a good signal. If a mentor is not
> having 30 minutes to create or modify a JIRA should we expect them to
> mentor a student, review and accept code and provide feedback?
>
>
Another good point (and now you mention it it's why we chose year tags
originally).
Perhaps the thing to do is add some documentation to the initial email to
PMCs saying "why not search for GSOC2012 and, if the item is still
relevant, change it to GSOC 2013 - if it's not then maybe close it as a but
of spring cleaning"
Ross
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>
>
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Suresh Marru <sm...@apache.org>.
On Apr 11, 2013, at 12:07 PM, Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> One of the issues is that we keep using GSoC + year as tag, so we pretty
> much discard all the previous years project ideas that are still open. I
> think using something generic like GSoC would make our project idea look
> bigger without much overhead on mentors to prepare year over year.
I see that in 2013 ideas, there are JIRA's created all the way from 2005 through 2013. I worry if you automatically carry over the issues to next year, we might end up with some unattended projects. What if the mentor (who proposed it previous year) does not have time or interest or the project is no longer relevant? I think it is not too much to expect from the mentor to go to the previous year JIRA's and change the tag from gsoc2012 to gsoc2013. If students are commenting on zombie ideas and do not get a response, that might not send a good signal. If a mentor is not having 30 minutes to create or modify a JIRA should we expect them to mentor a student, review and accept code and provide feedback?
Suresh
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On Apr 11, 2013, at 12:07 PM, Luciano Resende wrote:
> One of the issues is that we keep using GSoC + year as tag, so we pretty
> much discard all the previous years project ideas that are still open. I
> think using something generic like GSoC would make our project idea look
> bigger without much overhead on mentors to prepare year over year.
Or, both:
'GSoC' = This would be a great idea for GSoC, some day
'GSoC2013' = This is actually going to be worked on as part of GSoC 2013
--
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com
Shosholoza
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 7:38 AM, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>wrote:
> On 11 April 2013 14:23, Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Apr 10, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Mark Struberg wrote:
> >
> > > + it's also pretty hard to spin of small enough tasks which can be done
> > in a GSoC project. Most of our projects need some really in-depth
> knowledge
> > prior to hacking a smallish task :/
> >
> >
> >
> > Looking forward to next year, it would be good for us to encourage
> > projects to have a GSoC tag in their ticket tracker to identify issues
> that
> > would be good candidates for students. The folks at OpenHatch recommend
> > clearly identifying tickets as entry-level, and then, rather than always
> > cleaning up the so-called "low-hanging fruit", leaving them for
> entry-level
> > people. Such an approach might be employed, say, 3-6 months out from
> GSoC,
> > to start to identify good student projects.
> >
>
> We already do that. We could be more proactive about reminding projects to
> mark issues throughout the year.
>
>
> >
> > Granted, this leaves things undone, but that's probably ok, if our focus
> > is indeed community over code.
> >
>
> No problem if an issue is tagged GSoC but gets closed before GSoC comes
> along.
>
> Ross
>
>
One of the issues is that we keep using GSoC + year as tag, so we pretty
much discard all the previous years project ideas that are still open. I
think using something generic like GSoC would make our project idea look
bigger without much overhead on mentors to prepare year over year.
--
Luciano Resende
http://people.apache.org/~lresende
http://twitter.com/lresende1975
http://lresende.blogspot.com/
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 11 April 2013 14:23, Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com> wrote:
>
> On Apr 10, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>
> > + it's also pretty hard to spin of small enough tasks which can be done
> in a GSoC project. Most of our projects need some really in-depth knowledge
> prior to hacking a smallish task :/
>
>
>
> Looking forward to next year, it would be good for us to encourage
> projects to have a GSoC tag in their ticket tracker to identify issues that
> would be good candidates for students. The folks at OpenHatch recommend
> clearly identifying tickets as entry-level, and then, rather than always
> cleaning up the so-called "low-hanging fruit", leaving them for entry-level
> people. Such an approach might be employed, say, 3-6 months out from GSoC,
> to start to identify good student projects.
>
We already do that. We could be more proactive about reminding projects to
mark issues throughout the year.
>
> Granted, this leaves things undone, but that's probably ok, if our focus
> is indeed community over code.
>
No problem if an issue is tagged GSoC but gets closed before GSoC comes
along.
Ross
>
> --
> Rich Bowen
> rbowen@rcbowen.com :: @rbowen
> rbowen@apache.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On Apr 10, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Mark Struberg wrote:
> + it's also pretty hard to spin of small enough tasks which can be done in a GSoC project. Most of our projects need some really in-depth knowledge prior to hacking a smallish task :/
Looking forward to next year, it would be good for us to encourage projects to have a GSoC tag in their ticket tracker to identify issues that would be good candidates for students. The folks at OpenHatch recommend clearly identifying tickets as entry-level, and then, rather than always cleaning up the so-called "low-hanging fruit", leaving them for entry-level people. Such an approach might be employed, say, 3-6 months out from GSoC, to start to identify good student projects.
Granted, this leaves things undone, but that's probably ok, if our focus is indeed community over code.
--
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com :: @rbowen
rbowen@apache.org
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Suresh Marru <sm...@apache.org>.
On Apr 11, 2013, at 11:14 AM, Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de> wrote:
> On 11.04.2013 16:41, Ross Gardler wrote:
>> On 11 April 2013 14:26, Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11.04.2013 15:17, Rich Bowen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In this light, 33 is not that bad a number.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How does that compare to past years?
>>>>
>>>
>>> 27 in 2012, so about the same (the 33 also contain some sub-projects). But
>>> at the same time the
>>> number of our TLPs and podlings grew so the ratio of participating
>>> projects is lower than last year.
>>>
>>
>> As I find myself saying every year. It's about quality not quantity.
>
> It's both. I find it an alarming sign that our numbers don't increase with our size.
>
>>
>> Our pass rate in the ASF is higher than the programme overall. Part of the
>> reason for this is that we spend a great deal of time making sure the right
>> students get chosen, but also because our mentors are very committed. We
>> state that we expect around 5 hours a week from mentors. That is a
>> significant commitment but providing that time does give us a higher
>> success rate.
>>
>> Personally, I wouldn't consider 33 projects low. We only get around 35-40
>> slots anyway.
>
> I need to correct you. We got 55 slots in 2011 of which 15 were returned and I believe almost the
> same number last year and again we had to return a significant number because we didn't have the
> mentors and participating projects to fill them.
Hi Uli,
I am not trying to be onerous on your to hunt statistics from previous years but thinking out loud.
For 2013 there are 173 project ideas, I am assuming there is a many to one mapping of mentors to ideas. Since there is a recommendation to have one to one mapping of mentor to projects (with exceptions allowed under certain conditions), are we running into an issues where multiple projects are getting good proposals and mentors are choosing one and leaving out rest? If so do we want to encourage already committed mentors to recruit others in PMC to become mentors? I know you have repeatedly insisted on this, but wondering if something more should be done in the area?
Roughly speaking 33 PMC's (PPMCs included) prosed these ideas. Based on previous years experience, how much of percentage of these ideas are not attracting students? If so do we want to educate on what makes a good gsoc project?
Suresh
>
> Uli
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>.
On 11.04.2013 16:41, Ross Gardler wrote:
> On 11 April 2013 14:26, Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de> wrote:
>
>> On 11.04.2013 15:17, Rich Bowen wrote:
>>>
>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>>>
>>>> In this light, 33 is not that bad a number.
>>>
>>>
>>> How does that compare to past years?
>>>
>>
>> 27 in 2012, so about the same (the 33 also contain some sub-projects). But
>> at the same time the
>> number of our TLPs and podlings grew so the ratio of participating
>> projects is lower than last year.
>>
>
> As I find myself saying every year. It's about quality not quantity.
It's both. I find it an alarming sign that our numbers don't increase with our size.
>
> Our pass rate in the ASF is higher than the programme overall. Part of the
> reason for this is that we spend a great deal of time making sure the right
> students get chosen, but also because our mentors are very committed. We
> state that we expect around 5 hours a week from mentors. That is a
> significant commitment but providing that time does give us a higher
> success rate.
>
> Personally, I wouldn't consider 33 projects low. We only get around 35-40
> slots anyway.
I need to correct you. We got 55 slots in 2011 of which 15 were returned and I believe almost the
same number last year and again we had to return a significant number because we didn't have the
mentors and participating projects to fill them.
Uli
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 11 April 2013 14:26, Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de> wrote:
> On 11.04.2013 15:17, Rich Bowen wrote:
> >
> > On Apr 10, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Mark Struberg wrote:
> >
> >> In this light, 33 is not that bad a number.
> >
> >
> > How does that compare to past years?
> >
>
> 27 in 2012, so about the same (the 33 also contain some sub-projects). But
> at the same time the
> number of our TLPs and podlings grew so the ratio of participating
> projects is lower than last year.
>
As I find myself saying every year. It's about quality not quantity.
Our pass rate in the ASF is higher than the programme overall. Part of the
reason for this is that we spend a great deal of time making sure the right
students get chosen, but also because our mentors are very committed. We
state that we expect around 5 hours a week from mentors. That is a
significant commitment but providing that time does give us a higher
success rate.
Personally, I wouldn't consider 33 projects low. We only get around 35-40
slots anyway.
Ross
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>.
On 11.04.2013 15:17, Rich Bowen wrote:
>
> On Apr 10, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>
>> In this light, 33 is not that bad a number.
>
>
> How does that compare to past years?
>
27 in 2012, so about the same (the 33 also contain some sub-projects). But at the same time the
number of our TLPs and podlings grew so the ratio of participating projects is lower than last year.
Uli
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On Apr 10, 2013, at 1:39 PM, Mark Struberg wrote:
> In this light, 33 is not that bad a number.
How does that compare to past years?
--
Rich Bowen
rbowen@rcbowen.com :: @rbowen
rbowen@apache.org
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>.
3 months plus community bonding period, so yes, plenty of time to become familiar with the project
and product.
Uli
On 11.04.2013 15:25, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 7:39 PM, Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de> wrote:
>> ...Most of our projects need some really in-depth knowledge prior to hacking a smallish task :/...
>
> GSoC is 4 months of work IIRC, should be enough for more than a
> smallish task given capable students.
>
> -Bertrand
>
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 7:39 PM, Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de> wrote:
> ...Most of our projects need some really in-depth knowledge prior to hacking a smallish task :/...
GSoC is 4 months of work IIRC, should be enough for more than a
smallish task given capable students.
-Bertrand
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Mark Struberg <st...@yahoo.de>.
+ it's also pretty hard to spin of small enough tasks which can be done in a GSoC project. Most of our projects need some really in-depth knowledge prior to hacking a smallish task :/
In this light, 33 is not that bad a number.
LieGrue,
strub
----- Original Message -----
> From: janI <ja...@apache.org>
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Cc:
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 7:35 PM
> Subject: Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
>
> On Apr 10, 2013 7:27 PM, "Ulrich Stärk" <ul...@spielviel.de>
> wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> I perceive a low interest of our projects in GSoC. The list of projects
> that submitted project ideas
>> that I compiled for Sally contained 33 entries of which some are
> subprojects I believe. With 138
>> PMCs plus 35 podlings, this is less than one fifth of our projects.
>>
>> We only had 34 ideas one week before our application was due.
>>
>> I run into committers that are not members of their projects PMCs who are
> eager to be mentors but
>> have no clue about what's going on because nobody from the PMC
> forwarded
> my emails to their dev lists.
>>
>> So the problem seems twofold: no interest and not reaching the right
> people. The latter could be
>> improved by simply sending to committers@ instead of pmcs@ but it's the
> first that worries me.
>>
>> I believe GSoC and every other opportunity to attract new contributors to
> our projects should be a
>> key priority of our PMCs. Apparently it's not, for whatever reasons. I
> could think of missing
>> cycles, indifference, and wrong priorities.
>>
>> So what could we do to increase awareness for the opportunities GSoC
> offers and that this program is
>> important to the foundation? Write more emails? Ask the board to mandate
> a section in board reports
>> detailing the project's GSoC endeavors? Any ideas?
>
> one suggestion would be to make an apache page, that in short tell
> 1) what should a proposal contain
> 2) what is required with asf to be mentor (on a asf project)
> 3) a short part about asf and our cooperation with google
> 4) How to proceed.
>
> I know you and others have e-mailed all that information, and quite a lot
> more. A page (which are referenced in the e-mail) would make it easy for
> someone like me, to get the information I need fast, and if I feel it, I
> can always find more details.
>
> Thx for doing a great job, and yes there could have been more
> projects....but take it positively, we have some projects.
>
> Rgds
> jan I.
>
>>
>> Uli
>
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by janI <ja...@apache.org>.
On Apr 10, 2013 7:27 PM, "Ulrich Stärk" <ul...@spielviel.de> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I perceive a low interest of our projects in GSoC. The list of projects
that submitted project ideas
> that I compiled for Sally contained 33 entries of which some are
subprojects I believe. With 138
> PMCs plus 35 podlings, this is less than one fifth of our projects.
>
> We only had 34 ideas one week before our application was due.
>
> I run into committers that are not members of their projects PMCs who are
eager to be mentors but
> have no clue about what's going on because nobody from the PMC forwarded
my emails to their dev lists.
>
> So the problem seems twofold: no interest and not reaching the right
people. The latter could be
> improved by simply sending to committers@ instead of pmcs@ but it's the
first that worries me.
>
> I believe GSoC and every other opportunity to attract new contributors to
our projects should be a
> key priority of our PMCs. Apparently it's not, for whatever reasons. I
could think of missing
> cycles, indifference, and wrong priorities.
>
> So what could we do to increase awareness for the opportunities GSoC
offers and that this program is
> important to the foundation? Write more emails? Ask the board to mandate
a section in board reports
> detailing the project's GSoC endeavors? Any ideas?
one suggestion would be to make an apache page, that in short tell
1) what should a proposal contain
2) what is required with asf to be mentor (on a asf project)
3) a short part about asf and our cooperation with google
4) How to proceed.
I know you and others have e-mailed all that information, and quite a lot
more. A page (which are referenced in the e-mail) would make it easy for
someone like me, to get the information I need fast, and if I feel it, I
can always find more details.
Thx for doing a great job, and yes there could have been more
projects....but take it positively, we have some projects.
Rgds
jan I.
>
> Uli
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
A short mail to committers@ asking people who don't know about the process
to ensure their PMC forwards the request should be enough.
Things won't scale if ComDev start trying to offer more support than we
already do. Let's have the PMCs answer queries from their communities.
Ross
Sent from a mobile device, please excuse mistakes and brevity
On 10 Apr 2013 18:27, "Ulrich Stärk" <ul...@spielviel.de> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I perceive a low interest of our projects in GSoC. The list of projects
> that submitted project ideas
> that I compiled for Sally contained 33 entries of which some are
> subprojects I believe. With 138
> PMCs plus 35 podlings, this is less than one fifth of our projects.
>
> We only had 34 ideas one week before our application was due.
>
> I run into committers that are not members of their projects PMCs who are
> eager to be mentors but
> have no clue about what's going on because nobody from the PMC forwarded
> my emails to their dev lists.
>
> So the problem seems twofold: no interest and not reaching the right
> people. The latter could be
> improved by simply sending to committers@ instead of pmcs@ but it's the
> first that worries me.
>
> I believe GSoC and every other opportunity to attract new contributors to
> our projects should be a
> key priority of our PMCs. Apparently it's not, for whatever reasons. I
> could think of missing
> cycles, indifference, and wrong priorities.
>
> So what could we do to increase awareness for the opportunities GSoC
> offers and that this program is
> important to the foundation? Write more emails? Ask the board to mandate a
> section in board reports
> detailing the project's GSoC endeavors? Any ideas?
>
> Uli
>
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de>.
Good idea.
We already have most of it at [1] and [2] but the blog won't hurt.
Uli
[1] http://community.apache.org/gsoc.html
[2] http://community.apache.org/gsoc-admin-tasks.html
On 11.04.2013 10:53, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 7:26 PM, Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de> wrote:
>> ...what could we do to increase awareness for the opportunities GSoC offers and that this program is
>> important to the foundation?...
>
> IMO, most of the communications that you currently send to pmcs@ could
> go to http://blogs.apache.org/comdev/ - this would help make things
> more visible, and help write the history of GSoC @apache (which is
> useful for future GSoC admins and participants).
>
> If there's stuff that needs to be private, it can go to an svn
> repository that only committers or PMC members can read, and/or to the
> code-awards list.
>
> -Bertrand
>
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 7:26 PM, Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de> wrote:
> ...what could we do to increase awareness for the opportunities GSoC offers and that this program is
> important to the foundation?...
IMO, most of the communications that you currently send to pmcs@ could
go to http://blogs.apache.org/comdev/ - this would help make things
more visible, and help write the history of GSoC @apache (which is
useful for future GSoC admins and participants).
If there's stuff that needs to be private, it can go to an svn
repository that only committers or PMC members can read, and/or to the
code-awards list.
-Bertrand
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by John Theisen <jo...@gmail.com>.
unsubscribe
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Grant Ingersoll <gs...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 10, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Ulrich Stärk wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> I perceive a low interest of our projects in GSoC. The list of projects that submitted project ideas
>> that I compiled for Sally contained 33 entries of which some are subprojects I believe. With 138
>> PMCs plus 35 podlings, this is less than one fifth of our projects.
>>
>> We only had 34 ideas one week before our application was due.
>>
>
> For my two cents, GSOC has been a mixed result for me personally. I think I've mentored 4 times in the past. Two were successful, two were not (one time, the student simply went radio silent about 1/2 way through despite producing code all the way up to that point). I know others in Mahout had similar experiences where it was a mixed bag. For me, this year (and last), it simply was a matter of not having the time to commit to it, esp. in light of the fact that I couldn't reliably predict whether it would be successful or not, despite putting in a fair amount of due diligence up front, in fact more than I would even do for someone I was directly hiring.
>
>
>> I run into committers that are not members of their projects PMCs who are eager to be mentors but
>> have no clue about what's going on because nobody from the PMC forwarded my emails to their dev lists.
>>
>> So the problem seems twofold: no interest and not reaching the right people. The latter could be
>> improved by simply sending to committers@ instead of pmcs@ but it's the first that worries me.
>
> committers@ does seem like it would be better from an awareness POV.
>
>>
>> I believe GSoC and every other opportunity to attract new contributors to our projects should be a
>> key priority of our PMCs. Apparently it's not, for whatever reasons. I could think of missing
>> cycles, indifference, and wrong priorities.
>
> Perhaps, esp. for more popular projects, there is no shortage of contributors? I really don't know. Overall, I like GSOC and may do it again in the future, but it was too much time currently.
>
>
>>
>> So what could we do to increase awareness for the opportunities GSoC offers and that this program is
>> important to the foundation? Write more emails? Ask the board to mandate a section in board reports
>> detailing the project's GSoC endeavors? Any ideas?
>>
>
> I don't think mandating makes sense. We're all volunteers and if a PMC doesn't want to do GSOC then that is their choice.
>
>
>> Uli
>
>
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Grant Ingersoll <gs...@apache.org>.
On Apr 10, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Ulrich Stärk wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I perceive a low interest of our projects in GSoC. The list of projects that submitted project ideas
> that I compiled for Sally contained 33 entries of which some are subprojects I believe. With 138
> PMCs plus 35 podlings, this is less than one fifth of our projects.
>
> We only had 34 ideas one week before our application was due.
>
For my two cents, GSOC has been a mixed result for me personally. I think I've mentored 4 times in the past. Two were successful, two were not (one time, the student simply went radio silent about 1/2 way through despite producing code all the way up to that point). I know others in Mahout had similar experiences where it was a mixed bag. For me, this year (and last), it simply was a matter of not having the time to commit to it, esp. in light of the fact that I couldn't reliably predict whether it would be successful or not, despite putting in a fair amount of due diligence up front, in fact more than I would even do for someone I was directly hiring.
> I run into committers that are not members of their projects PMCs who are eager to be mentors but
> have no clue about what's going on because nobody from the PMC forwarded my emails to their dev lists.
>
> So the problem seems twofold: no interest and not reaching the right people. The latter could be
> improved by simply sending to committers@ instead of pmcs@ but it's the first that worries me.
committers@ does seem like it would be better from an awareness POV.
>
> I believe GSoC and every other opportunity to attract new contributors to our projects should be a
> key priority of our PMCs. Apparently it's not, for whatever reasons. I could think of missing
> cycles, indifference, and wrong priorities.
Perhaps, esp. for more popular projects, there is no shortage of contributors? I really don't know. Overall, I like GSOC and may do it again in the future, but it was too much time currently.
>
> So what could we do to increase awareness for the opportunities GSoC offers and that this program is
> important to the foundation? Write more emails? Ask the board to mandate a section in board reports
> detailing the project's GSoC endeavors? Any ideas?
>
I don't think mandating makes sense. We're all volunteers and if a PMC doesn't want to do GSOC then that is their choice.
> Uli
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
I think this is a good idea if you have the time. I'm certain the
OpenMeetings project will be very happy to provide a teleconferencing
solution.
Ross
On 11 April 2013 15:54, Suresh Marru <sm...@apache.org> wrote:
> Lots of good thoughts already, and I agree with Ross it is the quality and
> not quantity.
>
> But I think not all projects have the awareness and what they can get out
> of GSoC. There is a lot of good documentation as Uli and others have
> pointed out. PMC's have to be motivated to look at them. Email is good for
> most of the asynchronous communication needs, but my 2 cents will be to
> conduct an open forum webeminar and reach it out to all committers and
> pmcs. My experience if some one can ask questions directly it will
> bootstrap better interest than emails notifications. If such thing will be
> useful, I am willing to organize and coordinate.
>
> Suresh
>
> On Apr 10, 2013, at 1:26 PM, Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de> wrote:
>
> > Folks,
> >
> > I perceive a low interest of our projects in GSoC. The list of projects
> that submitted project ideas
> > that I compiled for Sally contained 33 entries of which some are
> subprojects I believe. With 138
> > PMCs plus 35 podlings, this is less than one fifth of our projects.
> >
> > We only had 34 ideas one week before our application was due.
> >
> > I run into committers that are not members of their projects PMCs who
> are eager to be mentors but
> > have no clue about what's going on because nobody from the PMC forwarded
> my emails to their dev lists.
> >
> > So the problem seems twofold: no interest and not reaching the right
> people. The latter could be
> > improved by simply sending to committers@ instead of pmcs@ but it's the
> first that worries me.
> >
> > I believe GSoC and every other opportunity to attract new contributors
> to our projects should be a
> > key priority of our PMCs. Apparently it's not, for whatever reasons. I
> could think of missing
> > cycles, indifference, and wrong priorities.
> >
> > So what could we do to increase awareness for the opportunities GSoC
> offers and that this program is
> > important to the foundation? Write more emails? Ask the board to mandate
> a section in board reports
> > detailing the project's GSoC endeavors? Any ideas?
> >
> > Uli
>
>
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: increasing GSoC visibility within the ASF
Posted by Suresh Marru <sm...@apache.org>.
Lots of good thoughts already, and I agree with Ross it is the quality and not quantity.
But I think not all projects have the awareness and what they can get out of GSoC. There is a lot of good documentation as Uli and others have pointed out. PMC's have to be motivated to look at them. Email is good for most of the asynchronous communication needs, but my 2 cents will be to conduct an open forum webeminar and reach it out to all committers and pmcs. My experience if some one can ask questions directly it will bootstrap better interest than emails notifications. If such thing will be useful, I am willing to organize and coordinate.
Suresh
On Apr 10, 2013, at 1:26 PM, Ulrich Stärk <ul...@spielviel.de> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I perceive a low interest of our projects in GSoC. The list of projects that submitted project ideas
> that I compiled for Sally contained 33 entries of which some are subprojects I believe. With 138
> PMCs plus 35 podlings, this is less than one fifth of our projects.
>
> We only had 34 ideas one week before our application was due.
>
> I run into committers that are not members of their projects PMCs who are eager to be mentors but
> have no clue about what's going on because nobody from the PMC forwarded my emails to their dev lists.
>
> So the problem seems twofold: no interest and not reaching the right people. The latter could be
> improved by simply sending to committers@ instead of pmcs@ but it's the first that worries me.
>
> I believe GSoC and every other opportunity to attract new contributors to our projects should be a
> key priority of our PMCs. Apparently it's not, for whatever reasons. I could think of missing
> cycles, indifference, and wrong priorities.
>
> So what could we do to increase awareness for the opportunities GSoC offers and that this program is
> important to the foundation? Write more emails? Ask the board to mandate a section in board reports
> detailing the project's GSoC endeavors? Any ideas?
>
> Uli