Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org>]

Hi, community members,

Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users asked me how to involve
in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the information in the
WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20 developers joined in and the
webinar lasts 90min :)

Here is the summary of this event:
1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for newcomers.
1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX and its products:
1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack tech details, and
developers need to read and debug from source codes;
1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need to take
care of or install;
1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but Test
Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run test cases locally, it's
hard to pass all test cases because of environmental issues.
1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about how to corporate with
others in the community, they need more courage and mentors.

2. Documentation
2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`, `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
`apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and only `apache/apisix`
repo's docs are maintained regularly and frequently, attendees complained
about the Docs Quality.
2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include Production Best Practice
sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could easily find the
appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a demo.

2.3 Products
2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX Dashboard is just a demo,
and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We hope it's not only
out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use it in production. The
same as Ingress Controller.

Yes, there have a lot of issues that our developers are facing, but it's
also a great feeling to hold events like this! For the issues above, kindly
share your ideas and thoughts :)

Best Regards!
@ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com>]

> 从以上 3 个 PR 中，如何定义一个有意义的变化？

Right now there is no precise definition of whether a PR is meaningful
in the APISIX community.

Here's what I thought.

1. for PR: https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5592/files
I think it is pointless.
1.1 first of all, xunzhuo has contributed to APISIX in terms of code
and documentation, and he has the ability to do more good first
issues, not only fix typo. I acknowledge that anyone can submit such a
PR to fix typo, but I would prefer that such PRs are submitted by
newcomers who have never contributed to APISIX before, to help them
become familiar with the process and as a first step to the community
or open source.
1.2 This PR translates some English into Chinese and fixes formatting
issues. But user can understand the original text without this PR. The
translation is no better than the original.
1.3 Some of the translations are very mechanical and do not convey the
meaning of the original well. such as `replace it to the real runner
executable according to the runner you choice` -> `根据你选择的
runner，将其替换为真正执行的 runner`, the original text is imperfectly expressed,
and the translation is even less clear. I think it's better to amend
the original text to give examples.

So based on the above, I think the evaluation of whether a PR is
meaningful depends largely on the quality of the PR.
For people who have contributed to the project, we can be a bit strict
—— without this PR, will the project mislead developers, will it lose
feature, will it fail to run, and so on.
We can be lenient with newcomers who have never submitted a PR before,
and we hope that this PR will help them understand the process of
participating in the community.

Would be happy to discuss this with others in the community. Maybe I'm
wrong in my views, but it would be great if we could push for a
consensus within the community.

Note: The issues discussed above are only a small part of the issues
discussed in this email list.

*ZhengSong Tu*
My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix

Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:32写道：
>
> > I agree with zexuan's view that no meaningful document modification will
> not bring community activity.
>
> From the above 3 PRs, how to define a meaningful change?
>
> > Apache APISIX has such guidelines[1], we can improve this document
>
> For users who subscribed to this mailing list, how many of us read
> carefully or know exactly about this guideline? I agree to read it before
> involving Apache APISIX's Community, and Community maintainers should lead
> us to learn about them as well.
>
> Best Regards!
> @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
>
>
> Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:17写道：
>
> > Apache APISIX has such guidelines[1], we can improve this document
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/apache/apisix/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > Twitter: _WenMing
> >
> >
> > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:11写道：
> >
> > > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
> > >
> > > In my own opinion, lacking a "Contribution Chain/Workflow" is the key
> > point
> > > why Apache APISIX will receive those PRs. We think they know, actually
> > not.
> > >
> > > Best Regards!
> > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > >
> > >
> > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:08写道：
> > >
> > > > I think the contributor should learn the basic manner before
> > > contributing.
> > > > Eg, discuss in the community first, don't spam too many non-value
> > > > changes which don't bring a real contribution.
> > > >
> > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:06写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to
> > > > Chinese.
> > > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> > > > MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes, in
> > my
> > > > own
> > > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate all
> > > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more smoothly.
> > > His
> > > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of change
> > > will
> > > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members,
> > > right?
> > > > I
> > > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's incorrect. In that PR he just translates English comments into
> > > > > Chinese doc. It is different from translating docs from English to
> > > > > Chinese.
> > > > >
> > > > > They are two different things. Why do need to change the English
> > > > > comments, because it is not pure Chinese? **Again, he didn't discuss
> > > > > this in the community.**
> > > > >
> > > > > And before he did this, he has been submitted several trivial PRs per
> > > > > day several times, which makes the behavior very skeptical.
> > > > >
> > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:00写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:59写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The PR #4892 doesn't correct anything. It is retelling the same
> > > > thing in other words. The original statement is already correct.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And if you look at the history carefully, that contributor
> > doesn't
> > > > have a good reputation to submit valuable PR. He didn't discuss what he
> > > did
> > > > in the community.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyway, we still merge some of his PR which brings real value.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:42写道：
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. This feedback comes from attendees, they don't mention
> > Apache
> > > > APISIX has
> > > > > > > > these cases, so I use "some communities" here;
> > > > > > > > 2. I just checked history PRs from here[1], and found some
> > closed
> > > > PRs which
> > > > > > > > are related to Documentations. I reviewed changes and comments,
> > > > emmm, I
> > > > > > > > agree to close some of them due to unnecessary changes or
> > > > reasonable
> > > > > > > > feedbacks, but here are still have some PRs that we could have
> > a
> > > > discussion
> > > > > > > > about, I picked 3 cases from them.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2.1 In PR #4892, one of Douyu's contributors[3] wanted to
> > update
> > > > the Zipkin
> > > > > > > > plugin's docs:
> > > > > > > > 2.1.1 This PR updated doc's title from `Zipkin` to `zipkin`,
> > > > because the
> > > > > > > > author thought it's better to keep the same as other plugins'
> > doc
> > > > title;
> > > > > > > > 2.1.2 This PR changed the description from "Zipkin is a
> > > > OpenTracing plugin"
> > > > > > > > to "zipkin is a plugin for [Zipkin](
> > > > https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin),
> > > > > > > > which is a distributed tracing system.";
> > > > > > > > 2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :( I'm not
> > > > familiar with
> > > > > > > > OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the difference
> > > > between them,
> > > > > > > > so I search Google and here has a "VS" from StackShare[4], it
> > > > seems that
> > > > > > > > the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954)
> > > > > > > > 2.1.4 Maybe this PR change was "trivial" as the comment says,
> > but
> > > > I have to
> > > > > > > > say, everyone likes the correct documentation :) So one
> > > > contributor wants
> > > > > > > > to make our docs more correct and better, why not accept it?
> > > After
> > > > > > > > consideration, though the ASF doesn't ask us to do this, I
> > really
> > > > hope our
> > > > > > > > committers and PMCs[5] help our the most active reviewers to
> > > > review PRs,
> > > > > > > > bcoz everyone's energy is not unlimited, our community needs
> > your
> > > > help to
> > > > > > > > grow and spread.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use
> > > Docusaurus's
> > > > syntax
> > > > > > > > to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's Docs
> > > website:
> > > > > > > > 2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change will
> > break
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most developers, and
> > > we
> > > > could do
> > > > > > > > this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get that
> > point
> > > > or didn't
> > > > > > > > notice/know the workflow IMO.
> > > > > > > > 2.2.2 It seems that the reviewer is feeling bad about this kind
> > > of
> > > > PRs, I
> > > > > > > > totally can understand the feeling: No other reviewers,
> > Duplicate
> > > > PRs
> > > > > > > > without discussions, and other things will affect our feeling.
> > I
> > > > will feel
> > > > > > > > bad, too :(
> > > > > > > > 2.2.3 We Apache APISIX is a long-term and powerful community
> > like
> > > > other
> > > > > > > > awesome communities, I make sure we will face any kinds of
> > issues
> > > > like
> > > > > > > > this, maybe we could be more friendly to our contributors?
> > > > Community is
> > > > > > > > grown with People, find our powerful users/contributors, get to
> > > > know them
> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > 2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs can lead
> > > > him to know
> > > > > > > > what's a proper workflow to corporate with the community? It
> > will
> > > > take much
> > > > > > > > time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our
> > community
> > > > grows as
> > > > > > > > well :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English
> > to
> > > > Chinese.
> > > > > > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> > > > MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > > > > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those
> > changes,
> > > > in my own
> > > > > > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to
> > translate
> > > > all
> > > > > > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more
> > > > smoothly. His
> > > > > > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of
> > > > change will
> > > > > > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX
> > members,
> > > > right? I
> > > > > > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2.4 I don't mean that we rejected PRs, I only want to encourage
> > > our
> > > > > > > > committers, PMCs to lead our contributors to grow and involve
> > in
> > > > our
> > > > > > > > community.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes, days ago I heard the same feedback from community members,
> > > > they don't
> > > > > > > > know how to take part in us and what they can do. We "think"
> > they
> > > > know, but
> > > > > > > > actually not for some developers. It seems that there lacks a
> > > > "Contribution
> > > > > > > > Chain".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I sincerely encourage all of us to take more attention to
> > > > Developers,
> > > > > > > > Codes, Documentations, and Ecosystems, to make our community
> > much
> > > > better!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [1]
> > https://github.com/apache/apisix/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
> > > > > > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892/files
> > > > > > > > [3] https://github.com/hnlq715
> > > > > > > > [4] https://stackshare.io/stackups/opentracing-vs-zipkin
> > > > > > > > [5] https://apisix.apache.org/team
> > > > > > > > [6] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4477
> > > > > > > > [7] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5592/files
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午9:16写道：
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers
> > submit;
> > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I don't think Apache APISIX has such problems. Are there
> > > > specific issues
> > > > > > > > > and PRs?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bozhong Yu <im...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午12:53写道：
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > There have a lot of environments and dependencies that
> > need
> > > > to take
> > > > > > > > > > care of or install
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > That's right. Even if I follow the documentation and
> > execute
> > > > make deps, I
> > > > > > > > > > still get errors. Maybe we can add more error handling:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:12写道：
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I think it's great.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > 下午11:04写道：
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test
> > > cases,
> > > > but Test
> > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find the
> > > doc:
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > 下午10:44写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > How about this title?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <
> > > > baoyuan.top@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use video and docs to
> > > > share how to
> > > > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first
> > line
> > > > of code, how
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > debug
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more content
> > > > like this.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com>
> > 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > 下午7:45写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal
> > > experience.
> > > > it take my
> > > > > > > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to
> > > > share how to
> > > > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first
> > > line
> > > > of code,
> > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > 下午4:26写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community
> > users
> > > > asked me
> > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > involve
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > information
> > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20
> > > > developers joined
> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > and the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth
> > > for
> > > > newcomers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that
> > > > developers submit;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can
> > > > contribute;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache
> > APISIX
> > > > and its
> > > > > > > > > > > products:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that
> > > lack
> > > > tech
> > > > > > > > > > details,
> > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > developers need to read and debug from source
> > > > codes;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and
> > > > dependencies that
> > > > > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to
> > > program
> > > > test
> > > > > > > > > cases,
> > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > Test
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers
> > > run
> > > > test cases
> > > > > > > > > > > > locally,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of
> > > > environmental issues.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow
> > > about
> > > > how to
> > > > > > > > > > > corporate
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others in the community, they need more courage
> > > > and mentors.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`,
> > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others,
> > > and
> > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and
> > > > frequently,
> > > > > > > > > attendees
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > complained
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include
> > > > Production Best
> > > > > > > > > > > > Practice
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they
> > > could
> > > > easily
> > > > > > > > > find
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a
> > > > demo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache
> > APISIX
> > > > Dashboard
> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > just a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > demo,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We
> > > > hope it's not
> > > > > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to
> > > use
> > > > it in
> > > > > > > > > > > > production.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our
> > > > developers are
> > > > > > > > > facing,
> > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this!
> > > For
> > > > the issues
> > > > > > > > > > > > above,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kindly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Serendipity 96 <ju...@gmail.com>]

> In my own opinion, lacking a "Contribution Chain/Workflow" is the key
point
why Apache APISIX will receive those PRs. We think they know, actually not.

I agree with this view. I didn't know what to do before I contributed code
for the first time. I consulted my friend who had contributed to open
source and he told me to start a discussion, show my technical solution,
discuss in the community, and then start writing the code.

Maybe we should write a contribution guide to help others contribute.

Best Regards!
@Serendipity96<https://github.com/Serendipity96>


Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 22:58写道：

> The word from Zhiyuan Ju is misleading. These words will hurt my
> reputation if I don't explain myself clear. Unfortunately, I am a
> person who sees his honor as very important. If I don't tell my story,
> I can not go asleep.
>
> Let me quote his sentences and **correct** them here:
>
> > 2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :( I'm not familiar with
> OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the difference between them,
> so I search Google and here has a "VS" from StackShare[4], it seems that
> the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954)
>
> The PR gets a "Requested Changes" because the author emphasizes it's
> important to keep the title in the same case, which is trivial. The
> author doesn't mention the difference between OpenTracing and Zipkin
> at that time.
>
> This is what the author says:
>
> > This pr was intended to uniform the title naming style, maybe it's just
> a kind of obsessive-compulsive disorder.
>
> See https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892#issuecomment-905362550
>
> And since you have mentioned #4954, you should also mention
> https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5196.
> These two PRs do the same thing, but why #4954 is rejected but #5196 is
> merged?
> Because the author of #5196 explains his idea clearly. Here is how the
> author persuaded me:
>
> ```
> At the same time, the minimum time window of the rate function in the
> grafana dashboard provided is 30s.
> sum(rate(apisix_bandwidth{instance=~"$instance"}[30s])) by (type)
> Based on the above two points, if the scrape_interval in the user's
> prometheus global configuration is greater than 15s, the rate function
> may not calculate the result at some point in time, causing the
> dashboard to be unavailable.
>
> The ingress nginx project has a similar PR: kubernetes/ingress-nginx#2884
> ```
>
> If you give enough reasons, a stubborn reviewer like me will accept
> the same change, which is rejected previously. **It is a bad idea to
> only think about the problem of reviewers when a PR is rejected.**
>
> I think everyone can learn a lot from these different results.
>
>
>
> > 2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use Docusaurus's syntax
> to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's Docs website:
> > 2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change will break the
> reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most developers, and we could do
> this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get that point or didn't
> notice/know the workflow IMO.
>
> I was quite surprised that Ayush didn't notice the workflow. He has
> been working at the APISIX website for a time. Doesn't the maintainer
> from there teach him how to discuss in the mail list before submitting
> a bunch of PRs?
>
> > 2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs can lead him to
> know
> what's a proper workflow to corporate with the community? It will take much
> time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our community grows as
> well :)
>
> It is quite unfair to link this comment with a PR to APISIX. Actually,
> it is the mistake of the maintainer of APISIX website who doesn't
> teach Ayush from the beginning. No, if Ayush is my student I will tell
> him to discuss it first in the mail list. Just like what I have told
> Bisakh (my prospective student, a smart young man) to discuss the
> Datadog plugin.
>
> > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to
> Chinese.
> 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not MUST-to-CHANGE,
> but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes, in my own
> opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate all
> English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more smoothly. His
> the original intention was good and active
>
> Someone already pointed out that #5592 doesn't translate English doc to
> Chinese.
> In fact, the PR translates the English comments of Chinese doc to
> Chinese. Each comment is very short, in one or two sentences. They are
> even shorter than the variables in the example sometimes.
> So there are two different things.
>
> And most importantly, in all these three cases, I tried to point out
> the correct way to do contribution, like discussing first, don't
> submit trivial PR unless you have a strong reason, focus on the good
> first issue. I have explained them in my previous mail, so I won't
> repeat them here.
>
> Therefore, once you know the context of each conflict, you will know
> why the "Request Change" is given.  Although I am a strict and
> stubborn man, in fact, I don't request change because of irrational
> reasons. I tried to follow the rule, gave a detailed review. And most
> of all, I review the PR as early as I can, so the developer can get
> the feedback in time.
>
> I have worked with Open Source for years, contributed to many famous
> projects. Being friendly is good, but being quick and being careful is
> more important. An easy-going teacher can make you happy, but only a
> teacher who provides timely feedback and detailed review can make you
> grow. If we spoil the contributor - accept trivial PR from non-newbie,
> it will always keep them at a low level. As they don't need to try
> something hard.
>
> Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午9:00写道：
> >
> > Hi, zexuan,
> > I think this is a discussion, not blamed, please relax :)
> > We may have different views on PR, but we should respect each other.
> >
> > In my opinion, low-quality PRs will indeed increase the workload of
> > maintainers,
> > so you can choose different PRs to review, and ignore PRs that you are
> not
> > interested in.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > Twitter: _WenMing
> >
> >
> > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午7:17写道：
> >
> > > > Community maintainers should lead us to learn about them as well.
> > >
> > > From the above 3 PRs, I have led us to contribute in a good way.
> > >
> > > For the first case:
> > > In https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892, I told the contributor:
> > >
> > > > Smart people like you should focus on advanced issues.
> > >
> > > See https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892#issuecomment-906140179
> > >
> > > For the second case, I told iamayushdas:
> > > ```
> > > First of all, you should discuss this in the mail list
> > > dev@apisix.apache.org before sending a bunch of PRs. It seems only a
> > > few people know this purpose.
> > >
> > > Secondly, please modify the doc in a repo first, and evaluate the
> > > effect. Don't change a lot of things. Change it step by step.
> > >
> > > Thirdly, it is not a good idea to put a visible mark on an obvious
> > > place. I just spend some time on this issue and get an idea:
> > >
> > > Since the doc is pulled from other repo before building it on the
> > > website, we can introduce a preprocessor that converts the invisible
> > > mark to the mark that can be recognized by the render.
> > >
> > > I am not sure if it works but at least there is way to achieve the
> > > goal with a better solution.
> > > ```
> > >
> > > See
> > >
> https://github.com/apache/apisix-website/issues/363#issuecomment-867531022
> > >
> > > For the third case, I told Xunzhuo privately that he should focus on
> > > the good first issue.
> > >
> > > In all three cases, I have told them how to contribute.
> > >
> > > I am sure that I am not the only maintainer of APISIX, so where are
> > > the other maintainers?
> > > iamayushdas has worked for APISIX website for a time, haven't other
> > > maintainers led them how to contribute in the correct way?
> > >
> > > Where are the other maintainers? Only me be blamed for missing
> > > leading? I have done it actually.
> > >
> > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:32写道：
> > > >
> > > > > I agree with zexuan's view that no meaningful document modification
> > > will
> > > > not bring community activity.
> > > >
> > > > From the above 3 PRs, how to define a meaningful change?
> > > >
> > > > > Apache APISIX has such guidelines[1], we can improve this document
> > > >
> > > > For users who subscribed to this mailing list, how many of us read
> > > > carefully or know exactly about this guideline? I agree to read it
> before
> > > > involving Apache APISIX's Community, and Community maintainers should
> > > lead
> > > > us to learn about them as well.
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards!
> > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:17写道：
> > > >
> > > > > Apache APISIX has such guidelines[1], we can improve this document
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/apisix/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:11写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In my own opinion, lacking a "Contribution Chain/Workflow" is
> the key
> > > > > point
> > > > > > why Apache APISIX will receive those PRs. We think they know,
> > > actually
> > > > > not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:08写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think the contributor should learn the basic manner before
> > > > > > contributing.
> > > > > > > Eg, discuss in the community first, don't spam too many
> non-value
> > > > > > > changes which don't bring a real contribution.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:06写道：
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from
> English
> > > to
> > > > > > > Chinese.
> > > > > > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> > > > > > > MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > > > > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those
> changes,
> > > in
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > own
> > > > > > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to
> translate
> > > all
> > > > > > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more
> > > smoothly.
> > > > > > His
> > > > > > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of
> > > change
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX
> members,
> > > > > > right?
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's
> activity.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It's incorrect. In that PR he just translates English
> comments
> > > into
> > > > > > > > Chinese doc. It is different from translating docs from
> English
> > > to
> > > > > > > > Chinese.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They are two different things. Why do need to change the
> English
> > > > > > > > comments, because it is not pure Chinese? **Again, he didn't
> > > discuss
> > > > > > > > this in the community.**
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And before he did this, he has been submitted several trivial
> > > PRs per
> > > > > > > > day several times, which makes the behavior very skeptical.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四
> 下午12:00写道：
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四
> 上午11:59写道：
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The PR #4892 doesn't correct anything. It is retelling
> the
> > > same
> > > > > > > thing in other words. The original statement is already
> correct.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > And if you look at the history carefully, that
> contributor
> > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > have a good reputation to submit valuable PR. He didn't discuss
> > > what he
> > > > > > did
> > > > > > > in the community.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Anyway, we still merge some of his PR which brings real
> > > value.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四
> 上午11:42写道：
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers
> > > submit;
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 1. This feedback comes from attendees, they don't
> mention
> > > > > Apache
> > > > > > > APISIX has
> > > > > > > > > > > these cases, so I use "some communities" here;
> > > > > > > > > > > 2. I just checked history PRs from here[1], and found
> some
> > > > > closed
> > > > > > > PRs which
> > > > > > > > > > > are related to Documentations. I reviewed changes and
> > > comments,
> > > > > > > emmm, I
> > > > > > > > > > > agree to close some of them due to unnecessary changes
> or
> > > > > > > reasonable
> > > > > > > > > > > feedbacks, but here are still have some PRs that we
> could
> > > have
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > discussion
> > > > > > > > > > > about, I picked 3 cases from them.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.1 In PR #4892, one of Douyu's contributors[3] wanted
> to
> > > > > update
> > > > > > > the Zipkin
> > > > > > > > > > > plugin's docs:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.1.1 This PR updated doc's title from `Zipkin` to
> > > `zipkin`,
> > > > > > > because the
> > > > > > > > > > > author thought it's better to keep the same as other
> > > plugins'
> > > > > doc
> > > > > > > title;
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.1.2 This PR changed the description from "Zipkin is a
> > > > > > > OpenTracing plugin"
> > > > > > > > > > > to "zipkin is a plugin for [Zipkin](
> > > > > > > https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin),
> > > > > > > > > > > which is a distributed tracing system.";
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :(
> I'm not
> > > > > > > familiar with
> > > > > > > > > > > OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the
> > > difference
> > > > > > > between them,
> > > > > > > > > > > so I search Google and here has a "VS" from
> StackShare[4],
> > > it
> > > > > > > seems that
> > > > > > > > > > > the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954)
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.1.4 Maybe this PR change was "trivial" as the comment
> > > says,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > I have to
> > > > > > > > > > > say, everyone likes the correct documentation :) So one
> > > > > > > contributor wants
> > > > > > > > > > > to make our docs more correct and better, why not
> accept
> > > it?
> > > > > > After
> > > > > > > > > > > consideration, though the ASF doesn't ask us to do
> this, I
> > > > > really
> > > > > > > hope our
> > > > > > > > > > > committers and PMCs[5] help our the most active
> reviewers
> > > to
> > > > > > > review PRs,
> > > > > > > > > > > bcoz everyone's energy is not unlimited, our community
> > > needs
> > > > > your
> > > > > > > help to
> > > > > > > > > > > grow and spread.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use
> > > > > > Docusaurus's
> > > > > > > syntax
> > > > > > > > > > > to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's
> Docs
> > > > > > website:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change
> will
> > > > > break
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most
> > > developers, and
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > > could do
> > > > > > > > > > > this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get
> that
> > > > > point
> > > > > > > or didn't
> > > > > > > > > > > notice/know the workflow IMO.
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.2.2 It seems that the reviewer is feeling bad about
> this
> > > kind
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > PRs, I
> > > > > > > > > > > totally can understand the feeling: No other reviewers,
> > > > > Duplicate
> > > > > > > PRs
> > > > > > > > > > > without discussions, and other things will affect our
> > > feeling.
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > will feel
> > > > > > > > > > > bad, too :(
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.2.3 We Apache APISIX is a long-term and powerful
> > > community
> > > > > like
> > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > > > awesome communities, I make sure we will face any
> kinds of
> > > > > issues
> > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > > > this, maybe we could be more friendly to our
> contributors?
> > > > > > > Community is
> > > > > > > > > > > grown with People, find our powerful
> users/contributors,
> > > get to
> > > > > > > know them
> > > > > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs
> can
> > > lead
> > > > > > > him to know
> > > > > > > > > > > what's a proper workflow to corporate with the
> community?
> > > It
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > take much
> > > > > > > > > > > time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our
> > > > > community
> > > > > > > grows as
> > > > > > > > > > > well :)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from
> > > English
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > Chinese.
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are
> not
> > > > > > > MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > > > > > > > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those
> > > > > changes,
> > > > > > > in my own
> > > > > > > > > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to
> > > > > translate
> > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read
> more
> > > > > > > smoothly. His
> > > > > > > > > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this
> kind
> > > of
> > > > > > > change will
> > > > > > > > > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache
> APISIX
> > > > > members,
> > > > > > > right? I
> > > > > > > > > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's
> > > activity.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.4 I don't mean that we rejected PRs, I only want to
> > > encourage
> > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > > > committers, PMCs to lead our contributors to grow and
> > > involve
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > > > community.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Yes, days ago I heard the same feedback from community
> > > members,
> > > > > > > they don't
> > > > > > > > > > > know how to take part in us and what they can do. We
> > > "think"
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > know, but
> > > > > > > > > > > actually not for some developers. It seems that there
> > > lacks a
> > > > > > > "Contribution
> > > > > > > > > > > Chain".
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I sincerely encourage all of us to take more attention
> to
> > > > > > > Developers,
> > > > > > > > > > > Codes, Documentations, and Ecosystems, to make our
> > > community
> > > > > much
> > > > > > > better!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > https://github.com/apache/apisix/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
> > > > > > > > > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892/files
> > > > > > > > > > > [3] https://github.com/hnlq715
> > > > > > > > > > > [4]
> https://stackshare.io/stackups/opentracing-vs-zipkin
> > > > > > > > > > > [5] https://apisix.apache.org/team
> > > > > > > > > > > [6] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4477
> > > > > > > > > > > [7] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5592/files
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午9:16写道：
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that
> developers
> > > > > submit;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can
> contribute;
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think Apache APISIX has such problems. Are
> there
> > > > > > > specific issues
> > > > > > > > > > > > and PRs?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > > > > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Bozhong Yu <im...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四
> > > 上午12:53写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > There have a lot of environments and dependencies
> > > that
> > > > > need
> > > > > > > to take
> > > > > > > > > > > > > care of or install
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > That's right. Even if I follow the documentation
> and
> > > > > execute
> > > > > > > make deps, I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > still get errors. Maybe we can add more error
> handling:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > 下午11:12写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX
> > > plugin
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it's great.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org>
> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > > > > 下午11:04写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program
> test
> > > > > > cases,
> > > > > > > but Test
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to
> find
> > > the
> > > > > > doc:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org>
> > > 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > > > > 下午10:44写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX
> > > plugin
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about this title?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <
> > > > > > > baoyuan.top@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use video and
> > > docs to
> > > > > > > share how to
> > > > > > > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the
> first
> > > > > line
> > > > > > > of code, how
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debug
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more
> > > content
> > > > > > > like this.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com>
> > > > > 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > > > > 下午7:45写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal
> > > > > > experience.
> > > > > > > it take my
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and
> > > docs to
> > > > > > > share how to
> > > > > > > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the
> > > first
> > > > > > line
> > > > > > > of code,
> > > > > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for
> > > newbies.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub:
> https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX:
> > > https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org>
> > > 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > > > > 下午4:26写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's
> community
> > > > > users
> > > > > > > asked me
> > > > > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > involve
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar
> and
> > > share
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > information
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WeChat Group (something like
> WhatsApp), 20
> > > > > > > developers joined
> > > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and
> > > smooth
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > newcomers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs
> that
> > > > > > > developers submit;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they
> can
> > > > > > > contribute;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop
> Apache
> > > > > APISIX
> > > > > > > and its
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > products:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of
> Documentations
> > > that
> > > > > > lack
> > > > > > > tech
> > > > > > > > > > > > > details,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > developers need to read and debug from
> > > source
> > > > > > > codes;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments
> and
> > > > > > > dependencies that
> > > > > > > > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test
> Nginx to
> > > > > > program
> > > > > > > test
> > > > > > > > > > > > cases,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Test
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when
> > > developers
> > > > > > run
> > > > > > > test cases
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > locally,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of
> > > > > > > environmental issues.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the
> > > workflow
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > how to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > corporate
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others in the community, they need more
> > > courage
> > > > > > > and mentors.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and
> > > others,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly
> and
> > > > > > > frequently,
> > > > > > > > > > > > attendees
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complained
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could
> > > include
> > > > > > > Production Best
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Practice
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX,
> > > they
> > > > > > could
> > > > > > > easily
> > > > > > > > > > > > find
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just
> > > seeing a
> > > > > > > demo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about
> Apache
> > > > > APISIX
> > > > > > > Dashboard
> > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > demo,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based
> > > functions. We
> > > > > > > hope it's not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the
> > > difficulty to
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > it in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > production.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that
> our
> > > > > > > developers are
> > > > > > > > > > > > facing,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events
> like
> > > this!
> > > > > > For
> > > > > > > the issues
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > above,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kindly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <
> https://github.com/juzhiyuan
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX:
> https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
>

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org>]

The word from Zhiyuan Ju is misleading. These words will hurt my
reputation if I don't explain myself clear. Unfortunately, I am a
person who sees his honor as very important. If I don't tell my story,
I can not go asleep.

Let me quote his sentences and **correct** them here:

> 2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :( I'm not familiar with
OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the difference between them,
so I search Google and here has a "VS" from StackShare[4], it seems that
the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954)

The PR gets a "Requested Changes" because the author emphasizes it's
important to keep the title in the same case, which is trivial. The
author doesn't mention the difference between OpenTracing and Zipkin
at that time.

This is what the author says:

> This pr was intended to uniform the title naming style, maybe it's just a kind of obsessive-compulsive disorder.

See https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892#issuecomment-905362550

And since you have mentioned #4954, you should also mention
https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5196.
These two PRs do the same thing, but why #4954 is rejected but #5196 is merged?
Because the author of #5196 explains his idea clearly. Here is how the
author persuaded me:

```
At the same time, the minimum time window of the rate function in the
grafana dashboard provided is 30s.
sum(rate(apisix_bandwidth{instance=~"$instance"}[30s])) by (type)
Based on the above two points, if the scrape_interval in the user's
prometheus global configuration is greater than 15s, the rate function
may not calculate the result at some point in time, causing the
dashboard to be unavailable.

The ingress nginx project has a similar PR: kubernetes/ingress-nginx#2884
```

If you give enough reasons, a stubborn reviewer like me will accept
the same change, which is rejected previously. **It is a bad idea to
only think about the problem of reviewers when a PR is rejected.**

I think everyone can learn a lot from these different results.



> 2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use Docusaurus's syntax
to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's Docs website:
> 2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change will break the
reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most developers, and we could do
this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get that point or didn't
notice/know the workflow IMO.

I was quite surprised that Ayush didn't notice the workflow. He has
been working at the APISIX website for a time. Doesn't the maintainer
from there teach him how to discuss in the mail list before submitting
a bunch of PRs?

> 2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs can lead him to know
what's a proper workflow to corporate with the community? It will take much
time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our community grows as
well :)

It is quite unfair to link this comment with a PR to APISIX. Actually,
it is the mistake of the maintainer of APISIX website who doesn't
teach Ayush from the beginning. No, if Ayush is my student I will tell
him to discuss it first in the mail list. Just like what I have told
Bisakh (my prospective student, a smart young man) to discuss the
Datadog plugin.

> 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to Chinese.
2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not MUST-to-CHANGE,
but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes, in my own
opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate all
English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more smoothly. His
the original intention was good and active

Someone already pointed out that #5592 doesn't translate English doc to Chinese.
In fact, the PR translates the English comments of Chinese doc to
Chinese. Each comment is very short, in one or two sentences. They are
even shorter than the variables in the example sometimes.
So there are two different things.

And most importantly, in all these three cases, I tried to point out
the correct way to do contribution, like discussing first, don't
submit trivial PR unless you have a strong reason, focus on the good
first issue. I have explained them in my previous mail, so I won't
repeat them here.

Therefore, once you know the context of each conflict, you will know
why the "Request Change" is given.  Although I am a strict and
stubborn man, in fact, I don't request change because of irrational
reasons. I tried to follow the rule, gave a detailed review. And most
of all, I review the PR as early as I can, so the developer can get
the feedback in time.

I have worked with Open Source for years, contributed to many famous
projects. Being friendly is good, but being quick and being careful is
more important. An easy-going teacher can make you happy, but only a
teacher who provides timely feedback and detailed review can make you
grow. If we spoil the contributor - accept trivial PR from non-newbie,
it will always keep them at a low level. As they don't need to try
something hard.

Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午9:00写道：
>
> Hi, zexuan,
> I think this is a discussion, not blamed, please relax :)
> We may have different views on PR, but we should respect each other.
>
> In my opinion, low-quality PRs will indeed increase the workload of
> maintainers,
> so you can choose different PRs to review, and ignore PRs that you are not
> interested in.
>
> Thanks,
> Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> Twitter: _WenMing
>
>
> Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午7:17写道：
>
> > > Community maintainers should lead us to learn about them as well.
> >
> > From the above 3 PRs, I have led us to contribute in a good way.
> >
> > For the first case:
> > In https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892, I told the contributor:
> >
> > > Smart people like you should focus on advanced issues.
> >
> > See https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892#issuecomment-906140179
> >
> > For the second case, I told iamayushdas:
> > ```
> > First of all, you should discuss this in the mail list
> > dev@apisix.apache.org before sending a bunch of PRs. It seems only a
> > few people know this purpose.
> >
> > Secondly, please modify the doc in a repo first, and evaluate the
> > effect. Don't change a lot of things. Change it step by step.
> >
> > Thirdly, it is not a good idea to put a visible mark on an obvious
> > place. I just spend some time on this issue and get an idea:
> >
> > Since the doc is pulled from other repo before building it on the
> > website, we can introduce a preprocessor that converts the invisible
> > mark to the mark that can be recognized by the render.
> >
> > I am not sure if it works but at least there is way to achieve the
> > goal with a better solution.
> > ```
> >
> > See
> > https://github.com/apache/apisix-website/issues/363#issuecomment-867531022
> >
> > For the third case, I told Xunzhuo privately that he should focus on
> > the good first issue.
> >
> > In all three cases, I have told them how to contribute.
> >
> > I am sure that I am not the only maintainer of APISIX, so where are
> > the other maintainers?
> > iamayushdas has worked for APISIX website for a time, haven't other
> > maintainers led them how to contribute in the correct way?
> >
> > Where are the other maintainers? Only me be blamed for missing
> > leading? I have done it actually.
> >
> > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:32写道：
> > >
> > > > I agree with zexuan's view that no meaningful document modification
> > will
> > > not bring community activity.
> > >
> > > From the above 3 PRs, how to define a meaningful change?
> > >
> > > > Apache APISIX has such guidelines[1], we can improve this document
> > >
> > > For users who subscribed to this mailing list, how many of us read
> > > carefully or know exactly about this guideline? I agree to read it before
> > > involving Apache APISIX's Community, and Community maintainers should
> > lead
> > > us to learn about them as well.
> > >
> > > Best Regards!
> > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > >
> > >
> > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:17写道：
> > >
> > > > Apache APISIX has such guidelines[1], we can improve this document
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/apisix/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:11写道：
> > > >
> > > > > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
> > > > >
> > > > > In my own opinion, lacking a "Contribution Chain/Workflow" is the key
> > > > point
> > > > > why Apache APISIX will receive those PRs. We think they know,
> > actually
> > > > not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:08写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > I think the contributor should learn the basic manner before
> > > > > contributing.
> > > > > > Eg, discuss in the community first, don't spam too many non-value
> > > > > > changes which don't bring a real contribution.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:06写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English
> > to
> > > > > > Chinese.
> > > > > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> > > > > > MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > > > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes,
> > in
> > > > my
> > > > > > own
> > > > > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate
> > all
> > > > > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more
> > smoothly.
> > > > > His
> > > > > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of
> > change
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members,
> > > > > right?
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It's incorrect. In that PR he just translates English comments
> > into
> > > > > > > Chinese doc. It is different from translating docs from English
> > to
> > > > > > > Chinese.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They are two different things. Why do need to change the English
> > > > > > > comments, because it is not pure Chinese? **Again, he didn't
> > discuss
> > > > > > > this in the community.**
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And before he did this, he has been submitted several trivial
> > PRs per
> > > > > > > day several times, which makes the behavior very skeptical.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:00写道：
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:59写道：
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The PR #4892 doesn't correct anything. It is retelling the
> > same
> > > > > > thing in other words. The original statement is already correct.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And if you look at the history carefully, that contributor
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > > have a good reputation to submit valuable PR. He didn't discuss
> > what he
> > > > > did
> > > > > > in the community.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Anyway, we still merge some of his PR which brings real
> > value.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:42写道：
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers
> > submit;
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1. This feedback comes from attendees, they don't mention
> > > > Apache
> > > > > > APISIX has
> > > > > > > > > > these cases, so I use "some communities" here;
> > > > > > > > > > 2. I just checked history PRs from here[1], and found some
> > > > closed
> > > > > > PRs which
> > > > > > > > > > are related to Documentations. I reviewed changes and
> > comments,
> > > > > > emmm, I
> > > > > > > > > > agree to close some of them due to unnecessary changes or
> > > > > > reasonable
> > > > > > > > > > feedbacks, but here are still have some PRs that we could
> > have
> > > > a
> > > > > > discussion
> > > > > > > > > > about, I picked 3 cases from them.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2.1 In PR #4892, one of Douyu's contributors[3] wanted to
> > > > update
> > > > > > the Zipkin
> > > > > > > > > > plugin's docs:
> > > > > > > > > > 2.1.1 This PR updated doc's title from `Zipkin` to
> > `zipkin`,
> > > > > > because the
> > > > > > > > > > author thought it's better to keep the same as other
> > plugins'
> > > > doc
> > > > > > title;
> > > > > > > > > > 2.1.2 This PR changed the description from "Zipkin is a
> > > > > > OpenTracing plugin"
> > > > > > > > > > to "zipkin is a plugin for [Zipkin](
> > > > > > https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin),
> > > > > > > > > > which is a distributed tracing system.";
> > > > > > > > > > 2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :( I'm not
> > > > > > familiar with
> > > > > > > > > > OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the
> > difference
> > > > > > between them,
> > > > > > > > > > so I search Google and here has a "VS" from StackShare[4],
> > it
> > > > > > seems that
> > > > > > > > > > the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954)
> > > > > > > > > > 2.1.4 Maybe this PR change was "trivial" as the comment
> > says,
> > > > but
> > > > > > I have to
> > > > > > > > > > say, everyone likes the correct documentation :) So one
> > > > > > contributor wants
> > > > > > > > > > to make our docs more correct and better, why not accept
> > it?
> > > > > After
> > > > > > > > > > consideration, though the ASF doesn't ask us to do this, I
> > > > really
> > > > > > hope our
> > > > > > > > > > committers and PMCs[5] help our the most active reviewers
> > to
> > > > > > review PRs,
> > > > > > > > > > bcoz everyone's energy is not unlimited, our community
> > needs
> > > > your
> > > > > > help to
> > > > > > > > > > grow and spread.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use
> > > > > Docusaurus's
> > > > > > syntax
> > > > > > > > > > to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's Docs
> > > > > website:
> > > > > > > > > > 2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change will
> > > > break
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most
> > developers, and
> > > > > we
> > > > > > could do
> > > > > > > > > > this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get that
> > > > point
> > > > > > or didn't
> > > > > > > > > > notice/know the workflow IMO.
> > > > > > > > > > 2.2.2 It seems that the reviewer is feeling bad about this
> > kind
> > > > > of
> > > > > > PRs, I
> > > > > > > > > > totally can understand the feeling: No other reviewers,
> > > > Duplicate
> > > > > > PRs
> > > > > > > > > > without discussions, and other things will affect our
> > feeling.
> > > > I
> > > > > > will feel
> > > > > > > > > > bad, too :(
> > > > > > > > > > 2.2.3 We Apache APISIX is a long-term and powerful
> > community
> > > > like
> > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > > awesome communities, I make sure we will face any kinds of
> > > > issues
> > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > > this, maybe we could be more friendly to our contributors?
> > > > > > Community is
> > > > > > > > > > grown with People, find our powerful users/contributors,
> > get to
> > > > > > know them
> > > > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > > > 2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs can
> > lead
> > > > > > him to know
> > > > > > > > > > what's a proper workflow to corporate with the community?
> > It
> > > > will
> > > > > > take much
> > > > > > > > > > time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our
> > > > community
> > > > > > grows as
> > > > > > > > > > well :)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from
> > English
> > > > to
> > > > > > Chinese.
> > > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> > > > > > MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > > > > > > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those
> > > > changes,
> > > > > > in my own
> > > > > > > > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to
> > > > translate
> > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more
> > > > > > smoothly. His
> > > > > > > > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind
> > of
> > > > > > change will
> > > > > > > > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX
> > > > members,
> > > > > > right? I
> > > > > > > > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's
> > activity.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2.4 I don't mean that we rejected PRs, I only want to
> > encourage
> > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > > committers, PMCs to lead our contributors to grow and
> > involve
> > > > in
> > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > > community.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yes, days ago I heard the same feedback from community
> > members,
> > > > > > they don't
> > > > > > > > > > know how to take part in us and what they can do. We
> > "think"
> > > > they
> > > > > > know, but
> > > > > > > > > > actually not for some developers. It seems that there
> > lacks a
> > > > > > "Contribution
> > > > > > > > > > Chain".
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I sincerely encourage all of us to take more attention to
> > > > > > Developers,
> > > > > > > > > > Codes, Documentations, and Ecosystems, to make our
> > community
> > > > much
> > > > > > better!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [1]
> > > > https://github.com/apache/apisix/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
> > > > > > > > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892/files
> > > > > > > > > > [3] https://github.com/hnlq715
> > > > > > > > > > [4] https://stackshare.io/stackups/opentracing-vs-zipkin
> > > > > > > > > > [5] https://apisix.apache.org/team
> > > > > > > > > > [6] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4477
> > > > > > > > > > [7] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5592/files
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午9:16写道：
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers
> > > > submit;
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I don't think Apache APISIX has such problems. Are there
> > > > > > specific issues
> > > > > > > > > > > and PRs?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > > > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Bozhong Yu <im...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四
> > 上午12:53写道：
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > There have a lot of environments and dependencies
> > that
> > > > need
> > > > > > to take
> > > > > > > > > > > > care of or install
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > That's right. Even if I follow the documentation and
> > > > execute
> > > > > > make deps, I
> > > > > > > > > > > > still get errors. Maybe we can add more error handling:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > 下午11:12写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX
> > plugin
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it's great.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > > > 下午11:04写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test
> > > > > cases,
> > > > > > but Test
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find
> > the
> > > > > doc:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org>
> > 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > > > 下午10:44写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX
> > plugin
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about this title?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <
> > > > > > baoyuan.top@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use video and
> > docs to
> > > > > > share how to
> > > > > > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first
> > > > line
> > > > > > of code, how
> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debug
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more
> > content
> > > > > > like this.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com>
> > > > 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > > > 下午7:45写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal
> > > > > experience.
> > > > > > it take my
> > > > > > > > > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and
> > docs to
> > > > > > share how to
> > > > > > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the
> > first
> > > > > line
> > > > > > of code,
> > > > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for
> > newbies.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX:
> > https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org>
> > 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > > > 下午4:26写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community
> > > > users
> > > > > > asked me
> > > > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > involve
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and
> > share
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > information
> > > > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20
> > > > > > developers joined
> > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and
> > smooth
> > > > > for
> > > > > > newcomers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that
> > > > > > developers submit;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can
> > > > > > contribute;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache
> > > > APISIX
> > > > > > and its
> > > > > > > > > > > > > products:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations
> > that
> > > > > lack
> > > > > > tech
> > > > > > > > > > > > details,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > developers need to read and debug from
> > source
> > > > > > codes;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and
> > > > > > dependencies that
> > > > > > > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to
> > > > > program
> > > > > > test
> > > > > > > > > > > cases,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Test
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when
> > developers
> > > > > run
> > > > > > test cases
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > locally,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of
> > > > > > environmental issues.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the
> > workflow
> > > > > about
> > > > > > how to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > corporate
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others in the community, they need more
> > courage
> > > > > > and mentors.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and
> > others,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and
> > > > > > frequently,
> > > > > > > > > > > attendees
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complained
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could
> > include
> > > > > > Production Best
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Practice
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX,
> > they
> > > > > could
> > > > > > easily
> > > > > > > > > > > find
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just
> > seeing a
> > > > > > demo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache
> > > > APISIX
> > > > > > Dashboard
> > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > just a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > demo,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based
> > functions. We
> > > > > > hope it's not
> > > > > > > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the
> > difficulty to
> > > > > use
> > > > > > it in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > production.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our
> > > > > > developers are
> > > > > > > > > > > facing,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like
> > this!
> > > > > For
> > > > > > the issues
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > above,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kindly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan
> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Ming Wen <we...@apache.org>]

Hi, zexuan,
I think this is a discussion, not blamed, please relax :)
We may have different views on PR, but we should respect each other.

In my opinion, low-quality PRs will indeed increase the workload of
maintainers,
so you can choose different PRs to review, and ignore PRs that you are not
interested in.

Thanks,
Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
Twitter: _WenMing


Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午7:17写道：

> > Community maintainers should lead us to learn about them as well.
>
> From the above 3 PRs, I have led us to contribute in a good way.
>
> For the first case:
> In https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892, I told the contributor:
>
> > Smart people like you should focus on advanced issues.
>
> See https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892#issuecomment-906140179
>
> For the second case, I told iamayushdas:
> ```
> First of all, you should discuss this in the mail list
> dev@apisix.apache.org before sending a bunch of PRs. It seems only a
> few people know this purpose.
>
> Secondly, please modify the doc in a repo first, and evaluate the
> effect. Don't change a lot of things. Change it step by step.
>
> Thirdly, it is not a good idea to put a visible mark on an obvious
> place. I just spend some time on this issue and get an idea:
>
> Since the doc is pulled from other repo before building it on the
> website, we can introduce a preprocessor that converts the invisible
> mark to the mark that can be recognized by the render.
>
> I am not sure if it works but at least there is way to achieve the
> goal with a better solution.
> ```
>
> See
> https://github.com/apache/apisix-website/issues/363#issuecomment-867531022
>
> For the third case, I told Xunzhuo privately that he should focus on
> the good first issue.
>
> In all three cases, I have told them how to contribute.
>
> I am sure that I am not the only maintainer of APISIX, so where are
> the other maintainers?
> iamayushdas has worked for APISIX website for a time, haven't other
> maintainers led them how to contribute in the correct way?
>
> Where are the other maintainers? Only me be blamed for missing
> leading? I have done it actually.
>
> Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:32写道：
> >
> > > I agree with zexuan's view that no meaningful document modification
> will
> > not bring community activity.
> >
> > From the above 3 PRs, how to define a meaningful change?
> >
> > > Apache APISIX has such guidelines[1], we can improve this document
> >
> > For users who subscribed to this mailing list, how many of us read
> > carefully or know exactly about this guideline? I agree to read it before
> > involving Apache APISIX's Community, and Community maintainers should
> lead
> > us to learn about them as well.
> >
> > Best Regards!
> > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> >
> >
> > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:17写道：
> >
> > > Apache APISIX has such guidelines[1], we can improve this document
> > >
> > > [1] https://github.com/apache/apisix/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > >
> > >
> > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:11写道：
> > >
> > > > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
> > > >
> > > > In my own opinion, lacking a "Contribution Chain/Workflow" is the key
> > > point
> > > > why Apache APISIX will receive those PRs. We think they know,
> actually
> > > not.
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards!
> > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:08写道：
> > > >
> > > > > I think the contributor should learn the basic manner before
> > > > contributing.
> > > > > Eg, discuss in the community first, don't spam too many non-value
> > > > > changes which don't bring a real contribution.
> > > > >
> > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:06写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English
> to
> > > > > Chinese.
> > > > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> > > > > MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes,
> in
> > > my
> > > > > own
> > > > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate
> all
> > > > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more
> smoothly.
> > > > His
> > > > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of
> change
> > > > will
> > > > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members,
> > > > right?
> > > > > I
> > > > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's incorrect. In that PR he just translates English comments
> into
> > > > > > Chinese doc. It is different from translating docs from English
> to
> > > > > > Chinese.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They are two different things. Why do need to change the English
> > > > > > comments, because it is not pure Chinese? **Again, he didn't
> discuss
> > > > > > this in the community.**
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And before he did this, he has been submitted several trivial
> PRs per
> > > > > > day several times, which makes the behavior very skeptical.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:00写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:59写道：
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The PR #4892 doesn't correct anything. It is retelling the
> same
> > > > > thing in other words. The original statement is already correct.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And if you look at the history carefully, that contributor
> > > doesn't
> > > > > have a good reputation to submit valuable PR. He didn't discuss
> what he
> > > > did
> > > > > in the community.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyway, we still merge some of his PR which brings real
> value.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:42写道：
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers
> submit;
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1. This feedback comes from attendees, they don't mention
> > > Apache
> > > > > APISIX has
> > > > > > > > > these cases, so I use "some communities" here;
> > > > > > > > > 2. I just checked history PRs from here[1], and found some
> > > closed
> > > > > PRs which
> > > > > > > > > are related to Documentations. I reviewed changes and
> comments,
> > > > > emmm, I
> > > > > > > > > agree to close some of them due to unnecessary changes or
> > > > > reasonable
> > > > > > > > > feedbacks, but here are still have some PRs that we could
> have
> > > a
> > > > > discussion
> > > > > > > > > about, I picked 3 cases from them.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2.1 In PR #4892, one of Douyu's contributors[3] wanted to
> > > update
> > > > > the Zipkin
> > > > > > > > > plugin's docs:
> > > > > > > > > 2.1.1 This PR updated doc's title from `Zipkin` to
> `zipkin`,
> > > > > because the
> > > > > > > > > author thought it's better to keep the same as other
> plugins'
> > > doc
> > > > > title;
> > > > > > > > > 2.1.2 This PR changed the description from "Zipkin is a
> > > > > OpenTracing plugin"
> > > > > > > > > to "zipkin is a plugin for [Zipkin](
> > > > > https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin),
> > > > > > > > > which is a distributed tracing system.";
> > > > > > > > > 2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :( I'm not
> > > > > familiar with
> > > > > > > > > OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the
> difference
> > > > > between them,
> > > > > > > > > so I search Google and here has a "VS" from StackShare[4],
> it
> > > > > seems that
> > > > > > > > > the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954)
> > > > > > > > > 2.1.4 Maybe this PR change was "trivial" as the comment
> says,
> > > but
> > > > > I have to
> > > > > > > > > say, everyone likes the correct documentation :) So one
> > > > > contributor wants
> > > > > > > > > to make our docs more correct and better, why not accept
> it?
> > > > After
> > > > > > > > > consideration, though the ASF doesn't ask us to do this, I
> > > really
> > > > > hope our
> > > > > > > > > committers and PMCs[5] help our the most active reviewers
> to
> > > > > review PRs,
> > > > > > > > > bcoz everyone's energy is not unlimited, our community
> needs
> > > your
> > > > > help to
> > > > > > > > > grow and spread.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use
> > > > Docusaurus's
> > > > > syntax
> > > > > > > > > to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's Docs
> > > > website:
> > > > > > > > > 2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change will
> > > break
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most
> developers, and
> > > > we
> > > > > could do
> > > > > > > > > this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get that
> > > point
> > > > > or didn't
> > > > > > > > > notice/know the workflow IMO.
> > > > > > > > > 2.2.2 It seems that the reviewer is feeling bad about this
> kind
> > > > of
> > > > > PRs, I
> > > > > > > > > totally can understand the feeling: No other reviewers,
> > > Duplicate
> > > > > PRs
> > > > > > > > > without discussions, and other things will affect our
> feeling.
> > > I
> > > > > will feel
> > > > > > > > > bad, too :(
> > > > > > > > > 2.2.3 We Apache APISIX is a long-term and powerful
> community
> > > like
> > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > awesome communities, I make sure we will face any kinds of
> > > issues
> > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > this, maybe we could be more friendly to our contributors?
> > > > > Community is
> > > > > > > > > grown with People, find our powerful users/contributors,
> get to
> > > > > know them
> > > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > > 2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs can
> lead
> > > > > him to know
> > > > > > > > > what's a proper workflow to corporate with the community?
> It
> > > will
> > > > > take much
> > > > > > > > > time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our
> > > community
> > > > > grows as
> > > > > > > > > well :)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from
> English
> > > to
> > > > > Chinese.
> > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> > > > > MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > > > > > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those
> > > changes,
> > > > > in my own
> > > > > > > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to
> > > translate
> > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more
> > > > > smoothly. His
> > > > > > > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind
> of
> > > > > change will
> > > > > > > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX
> > > members,
> > > > > right? I
> > > > > > > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's
> activity.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2.4 I don't mean that we rejected PRs, I only want to
> encourage
> > > > our
> > > > > > > > > committers, PMCs to lead our contributors to grow and
> involve
> > > in
> > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > community.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yes, days ago I heard the same feedback from community
> members,
> > > > > they don't
> > > > > > > > > know how to take part in us and what they can do. We
> "think"
> > > they
> > > > > know, but
> > > > > > > > > actually not for some developers. It seems that there
> lacks a
> > > > > "Contribution
> > > > > > > > > Chain".
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I sincerely encourage all of us to take more attention to
> > > > > Developers,
> > > > > > > > > Codes, Documentations, and Ecosystems, to make our
> community
> > > much
> > > > > better!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [1]
> > > https://github.com/apache/apisix/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
> > > > > > > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892/files
> > > > > > > > > [3] https://github.com/hnlq715
> > > > > > > > > [4] https://stackshare.io/stackups/opentracing-vs-zipkin
> > > > > > > > > [5] https://apisix.apache.org/team
> > > > > > > > > [6] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4477
> > > > > > > > > [7] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5592/files
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午9:16写道：
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers
> > > submit;
> > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I don't think Apache APISIX has such problems. Are there
> > > > > specific issues
> > > > > > > > > > and PRs?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bozhong Yu <im...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四
> 上午12:53写道：
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > There have a lot of environments and dependencies
> that
> > > need
> > > > > to take
> > > > > > > > > > > care of or install
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > That's right. Even if I follow the documentation and
> > > execute
> > > > > make deps, I
> > > > > > > > > > > still get errors. Maybe we can add more error handling:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三
> 下午11:12写道：
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX
> plugin
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I think it's great.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > > 下午11:04写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test
> > > > cases,
> > > > > but Test
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find
> the
> > > > doc:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org>
> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > > 下午10:44写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX
> plugin
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about this title?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <
> > > > > baoyuan.top@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use video and
> docs to
> > > > > share how to
> > > > > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first
> > > line
> > > > > of code, how
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debug
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more
> content
> > > > > like this.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com>
> > > 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > > 下午7:45写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal
> > > > experience.
> > > > > it take my
> > > > > > > > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and
> docs to
> > > > > share how to
> > > > > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the
> first
> > > > line
> > > > > of code,
> > > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for
> newbies.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX:
> https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org>
> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > > 下午4:26写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community
> > > users
> > > > > asked me
> > > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > involve
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and
> share
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > information
> > > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20
> > > > > developers joined
> > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and
> smooth
> > > > for
> > > > > newcomers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that
> > > > > developers submit;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can
> > > > > contribute;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache
> > > APISIX
> > > > > and its
> > > > > > > > > > > > products:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations
> that
> > > > lack
> > > > > tech
> > > > > > > > > > > details,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > developers need to read and debug from
> source
> > > > > codes;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and
> > > > > dependencies that
> > > > > > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to
> > > > program
> > > > > test
> > > > > > > > > > cases,
> > > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Test
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when
> developers
> > > > run
> > > > > test cases
> > > > > > > > > > > > > locally,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of
> > > > > environmental issues.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the
> workflow
> > > > about
> > > > > how to
> > > > > > > > > > > > corporate
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others in the community, they need more
> courage
> > > > > and mentors.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`,
> > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and
> others,
> > > > and
> > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and
> > > > > frequently,
> > > > > > > > > > attendees
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complained
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could
> include
> > > > > Production Best
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Practice
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX,
> they
> > > > could
> > > > > easily
> > > > > > > > > > find
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just
> seeing a
> > > > > demo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache
> > > APISIX
> > > > > Dashboard
> > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > just a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > demo,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based
> functions. We
> > > > > hope it's not
> > > > > > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the
> difficulty to
> > > > use
> > > > > it in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > production.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our
> > > > > developers are
> > > > > > > > > > facing,
> > > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like
> this!
> > > > For
> > > > > the issues
> > > > > > > > > > > > > above,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kindly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan
> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org>]

> Community maintainers should lead us to learn about them as well.

From the above 3 PRs, I have led us to contribute in a good way.

For the first case:
In https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892, I told the contributor:

> Smart people like you should focus on advanced issues.

See https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892#issuecomment-906140179

For the second case, I told iamayushdas:
```
First of all, you should discuss this in the mail list
dev@apisix.apache.org before sending a bunch of PRs. It seems only a
few people know this purpose.

Secondly, please modify the doc in a repo first, and evaluate the
effect. Don't change a lot of things. Change it step by step.

Thirdly, it is not a good idea to put a visible mark on an obvious
place. I just spend some time on this issue and get an idea:

Since the doc is pulled from other repo before building it on the
website, we can introduce a preprocessor that converts the invisible
mark to the mark that can be recognized by the render.

I am not sure if it works but at least there is way to achieve the
goal with a better solution.
```

See https://github.com/apache/apisix-website/issues/363#issuecomment-867531022

For the third case, I told Xunzhuo privately that he should focus on
the good first issue.

In all three cases, I have told them how to contribute.

I am sure that I am not the only maintainer of APISIX, so where are
the other maintainers?
iamayushdas has worked for APISIX website for a time, haven't other
maintainers led them how to contribute in the correct way?

Where are the other maintainers? Only me be blamed for missing
leading? I have done it actually.

Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:32写道：
>
> > I agree with zexuan's view that no meaningful document modification will
> not bring community activity.
>
> From the above 3 PRs, how to define a meaningful change?
>
> > Apache APISIX has such guidelines[1], we can improve this document
>
> For users who subscribed to this mailing list, how many of us read
> carefully or know exactly about this guideline? I agree to read it before
> involving Apache APISIX's Community, and Community maintainers should lead
> us to learn about them as well.
>
> Best Regards!
> @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
>
>
> Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:17写道：
>
> > Apache APISIX has such guidelines[1], we can improve this document
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/apache/apisix/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > Twitter: _WenMing
> >
> >
> > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:11写道：
> >
> > > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
> > >
> > > In my own opinion, lacking a "Contribution Chain/Workflow" is the key
> > point
> > > why Apache APISIX will receive those PRs. We think they know, actually
> > not.
> > >
> > > Best Regards!
> > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > >
> > >
> > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:08写道：
> > >
> > > > I think the contributor should learn the basic manner before
> > > contributing.
> > > > Eg, discuss in the community first, don't spam too many non-value
> > > > changes which don't bring a real contribution.
> > > >
> > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:06写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to
> > > > Chinese.
> > > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> > > > MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes, in
> > my
> > > > own
> > > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate all
> > > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more smoothly.
> > > His
> > > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of change
> > > will
> > > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members,
> > > right?
> > > > I
> > > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's incorrect. In that PR he just translates English comments into
> > > > > Chinese doc. It is different from translating docs from English to
> > > > > Chinese.
> > > > >
> > > > > They are two different things. Why do need to change the English
> > > > > comments, because it is not pure Chinese? **Again, he didn't discuss
> > > > > this in the community.**
> > > > >
> > > > > And before he did this, he has been submitted several trivial PRs per
> > > > > day several times, which makes the behavior very skeptical.
> > > > >
> > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:00写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:59写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The PR #4892 doesn't correct anything. It is retelling the same
> > > > thing in other words. The original statement is already correct.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And if you look at the history carefully, that contributor
> > doesn't
> > > > have a good reputation to submit valuable PR. He didn't discuss what he
> > > did
> > > > in the community.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyway, we still merge some of his PR which brings real value.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:42写道：
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. This feedback comes from attendees, they don't mention
> > Apache
> > > > APISIX has
> > > > > > > > these cases, so I use "some communities" here;
> > > > > > > > 2. I just checked history PRs from here[1], and found some
> > closed
> > > > PRs which
> > > > > > > > are related to Documentations. I reviewed changes and comments,
> > > > emmm, I
> > > > > > > > agree to close some of them due to unnecessary changes or
> > > > reasonable
> > > > > > > > feedbacks, but here are still have some PRs that we could have
> > a
> > > > discussion
> > > > > > > > about, I picked 3 cases from them.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2.1 In PR #4892, one of Douyu's contributors[3] wanted to
> > update
> > > > the Zipkin
> > > > > > > > plugin's docs:
> > > > > > > > 2.1.1 This PR updated doc's title from `Zipkin` to `zipkin`,
> > > > because the
> > > > > > > > author thought it's better to keep the same as other plugins'
> > doc
> > > > title;
> > > > > > > > 2.1.2 This PR changed the description from "Zipkin is a
> > > > OpenTracing plugin"
> > > > > > > > to "zipkin is a plugin for [Zipkin](
> > > > https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin),
> > > > > > > > which is a distributed tracing system.";
> > > > > > > > 2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :( I'm not
> > > > familiar with
> > > > > > > > OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the difference
> > > > between them,
> > > > > > > > so I search Google and here has a "VS" from StackShare[4], it
> > > > seems that
> > > > > > > > the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954)
> > > > > > > > 2.1.4 Maybe this PR change was "trivial" as the comment says,
> > but
> > > > I have to
> > > > > > > > say, everyone likes the correct documentation :) So one
> > > > contributor wants
> > > > > > > > to make our docs more correct and better, why not accept it?
> > > After
> > > > > > > > consideration, though the ASF doesn't ask us to do this, I
> > really
> > > > hope our
> > > > > > > > committers and PMCs[5] help our the most active reviewers to
> > > > review PRs,
> > > > > > > > bcoz everyone's energy is not unlimited, our community needs
> > your
> > > > help to
> > > > > > > > grow and spread.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use
> > > Docusaurus's
> > > > syntax
> > > > > > > > to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's Docs
> > > website:
> > > > > > > > 2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change will
> > break
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most developers, and
> > > we
> > > > could do
> > > > > > > > this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get that
> > point
> > > > or didn't
> > > > > > > > notice/know the workflow IMO.
> > > > > > > > 2.2.2 It seems that the reviewer is feeling bad about this kind
> > > of
> > > > PRs, I
> > > > > > > > totally can understand the feeling: No other reviewers,
> > Duplicate
> > > > PRs
> > > > > > > > without discussions, and other things will affect our feeling.
> > I
> > > > will feel
> > > > > > > > bad, too :(
> > > > > > > > 2.2.3 We Apache APISIX is a long-term and powerful community
> > like
> > > > other
> > > > > > > > awesome communities, I make sure we will face any kinds of
> > issues
> > > > like
> > > > > > > > this, maybe we could be more friendly to our contributors?
> > > > Community is
> > > > > > > > grown with People, find our powerful users/contributors, get to
> > > > know them
> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > > 2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs can lead
> > > > him to know
> > > > > > > > what's a proper workflow to corporate with the community? It
> > will
> > > > take much
> > > > > > > > time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our
> > community
> > > > grows as
> > > > > > > > well :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English
> > to
> > > > Chinese.
> > > > > > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> > > > MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > > > > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those
> > changes,
> > > > in my own
> > > > > > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to
> > translate
> > > > all
> > > > > > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more
> > > > smoothly. His
> > > > > > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of
> > > > change will
> > > > > > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX
> > members,
> > > > right? I
> > > > > > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2.4 I don't mean that we rejected PRs, I only want to encourage
> > > our
> > > > > > > > committers, PMCs to lead our contributors to grow and involve
> > in
> > > > our
> > > > > > > > community.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes, days ago I heard the same feedback from community members,
> > > > they don't
> > > > > > > > know how to take part in us and what they can do. We "think"
> > they
> > > > know, but
> > > > > > > > actually not for some developers. It seems that there lacks a
> > > > "Contribution
> > > > > > > > Chain".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I sincerely encourage all of us to take more attention to
> > > > Developers,
> > > > > > > > Codes, Documentations, and Ecosystems, to make our community
> > much
> > > > better!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [1]
> > https://github.com/apache/apisix/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
> > > > > > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892/files
> > > > > > > > [3] https://github.com/hnlq715
> > > > > > > > [4] https://stackshare.io/stackups/opentracing-vs-zipkin
> > > > > > > > [5] https://apisix.apache.org/team
> > > > > > > > [6] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4477
> > > > > > > > [7] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5592/files
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午9:16写道：
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers
> > submit;
> > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I don't think Apache APISIX has such problems. Are there
> > > > specific issues
> > > > > > > > > and PRs?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bozhong Yu <im...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午12:53写道：
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > There have a lot of environments and dependencies that
> > need
> > > > to take
> > > > > > > > > > care of or install
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > That's right. Even if I follow the documentation and
> > execute
> > > > make deps, I
> > > > > > > > > > still get errors. Maybe we can add more error handling:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:12写道：
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I think it's great.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > 下午11:04写道：
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test
> > > cases,
> > > > but Test
> > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find the
> > > doc:
> > > > > > > > > > > > https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > 下午10:44写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > How about this title?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <
> > > > baoyuan.top@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use video and docs to
> > > > share how to
> > > > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first
> > line
> > > > of code, how
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > debug
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more content
> > > > like this.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com>
> > 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > 下午7:45写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal
> > > experience.
> > > > it take my
> > > > > > > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to
> > > > share how to
> > > > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first
> > > line
> > > > of code,
> > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > > 下午4:26写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community
> > users
> > > > asked me
> > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > involve
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > information
> > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20
> > > > developers joined
> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > and the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth
> > > for
> > > > newcomers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that
> > > > developers submit;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can
> > > > contribute;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache
> > APISIX
> > > > and its
> > > > > > > > > > > products:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that
> > > lack
> > > > tech
> > > > > > > > > > details,
> > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > developers need to read and debug from source
> > > > codes;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and
> > > > dependencies that
> > > > > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to
> > > program
> > > > test
> > > > > > > > > cases,
> > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > Test
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers
> > > run
> > > > test cases
> > > > > > > > > > > > locally,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of
> > > > environmental issues.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow
> > > about
> > > > how to
> > > > > > > > > > > corporate
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others in the community, they need more courage
> > > > and mentors.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`,
> > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others,
> > > and
> > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and
> > > > frequently,
> > > > > > > > > attendees
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > complained
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include
> > > > Production Best
> > > > > > > > > > > > Practice
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they
> > > could
> > > > easily
> > > > > > > > > find
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a
> > > > demo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache
> > APISIX
> > > > Dashboard
> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > just a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > demo,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We
> > > > hope it's not
> > > > > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to
> > > use
> > > > it in
> > > > > > > > > > > > production.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our
> > > > developers are
> > > > > > > > > facing,
> > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this!
> > > For
> > > > the issues
> > > > > > > > > > > > above,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kindly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org>]

> I agree with zexuan's view that no meaningful document modification will
not bring community activity.

From the above 3 PRs, how to define a meaningful change?

> Apache APISIX has such guidelines[1], we can improve this document

For users who subscribed to this mailing list, how many of us read
carefully or know exactly about this guideline? I agree to read it before
involving Apache APISIX's Community, and Community maintainers should lead
us to learn about them as well.

Best Regards!
@ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>


Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:17写道：

> Apache APISIX has such guidelines[1], we can improve this document
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/apisix/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
>
> Thanks,
> Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> Twitter: _WenMing
>
>
> Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:11写道：
>
> > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
> >
> > In my own opinion, lacking a "Contribution Chain/Workflow" is the key
> point
> > why Apache APISIX will receive those PRs. We think they know, actually
> not.
> >
> > Best Regards!
> > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> >
> >
> > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:08写道：
> >
> > > I think the contributor should learn the basic manner before
> > contributing.
> > > Eg, discuss in the community first, don't spam too many non-value
> > > changes which don't bring a real contribution.
> > >
> > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:06写道：
> > > >
> > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to
> > > Chinese.
> > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> > > MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes, in
> my
> > > own
> > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate all
> > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more smoothly.
> > His
> > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of change
> > will
> > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members,
> > right?
> > > I
> > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> > > >
> > > > It's incorrect. In that PR he just translates English comments into
> > > > Chinese doc. It is different from translating docs from English to
> > > > Chinese.
> > > >
> > > > They are two different things. Why do need to change the English
> > > > comments, because it is not pure Chinese? **Again, he didn't discuss
> > > > this in the community.**
> > > >
> > > > And before he did this, he has been submitted several trivial PRs per
> > > > day several times, which makes the behavior very skeptical.
> > > >
> > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:00写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
> > > > >
> > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:59写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The PR #4892 doesn't correct anything. It is retelling the same
> > > thing in other words. The original statement is already correct.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And if you look at the history carefully, that contributor
> doesn't
> > > have a good reputation to submit valuable PR. He didn't discuss what he
> > did
> > > in the community.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, we still merge some of his PR which brings real value.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:42写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. This feedback comes from attendees, they don't mention
> Apache
> > > APISIX has
> > > > > > > these cases, so I use "some communities" here;
> > > > > > > 2. I just checked history PRs from here[1], and found some
> closed
> > > PRs which
> > > > > > > are related to Documentations. I reviewed changes and comments,
> > > emmm, I
> > > > > > > agree to close some of them due to unnecessary changes or
> > > reasonable
> > > > > > > feedbacks, but here are still have some PRs that we could have
> a
> > > discussion
> > > > > > > about, I picked 3 cases from them.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2.1 In PR #4892, one of Douyu's contributors[3] wanted to
> update
> > > the Zipkin
> > > > > > > plugin's docs:
> > > > > > > 2.1.1 This PR updated doc's title from `Zipkin` to `zipkin`,
> > > because the
> > > > > > > author thought it's better to keep the same as other plugins'
> doc
> > > title;
> > > > > > > 2.1.2 This PR changed the description from "Zipkin is a
> > > OpenTracing plugin"
> > > > > > > to "zipkin is a plugin for [Zipkin](
> > > https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin),
> > > > > > > which is a distributed tracing system.";
> > > > > > > 2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :( I'm not
> > > familiar with
> > > > > > > OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the difference
> > > between them,
> > > > > > > so I search Google and here has a "VS" from StackShare[4], it
> > > seems that
> > > > > > > the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954)
> > > > > > > 2.1.4 Maybe this PR change was "trivial" as the comment says,
> but
> > > I have to
> > > > > > > say, everyone likes the correct documentation :) So one
> > > contributor wants
> > > > > > > to make our docs more correct and better, why not accept it?
> > After
> > > > > > > consideration, though the ASF doesn't ask us to do this, I
> really
> > > hope our
> > > > > > > committers and PMCs[5] help our the most active reviewers to
> > > review PRs,
> > > > > > > bcoz everyone's energy is not unlimited, our community needs
> your
> > > help to
> > > > > > > grow and spread.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use
> > Docusaurus's
> > > syntax
> > > > > > > to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's Docs
> > website:
> > > > > > > 2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change will
> break
> > > the
> > > > > > > reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most developers, and
> > we
> > > could do
> > > > > > > this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get that
> point
> > > or didn't
> > > > > > > notice/know the workflow IMO.
> > > > > > > 2.2.2 It seems that the reviewer is feeling bad about this kind
> > of
> > > PRs, I
> > > > > > > totally can understand the feeling: No other reviewers,
> Duplicate
> > > PRs
> > > > > > > without discussions, and other things will affect our feeling.
> I
> > > will feel
> > > > > > > bad, too :(
> > > > > > > 2.2.3 We Apache APISIX is a long-term and powerful community
> like
> > > other
> > > > > > > awesome communities, I make sure we will face any kinds of
> issues
> > > like
> > > > > > > this, maybe we could be more friendly to our contributors?
> > > Community is
> > > > > > > grown with People, find our powerful users/contributors, get to
> > > know them
> > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > 2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs can lead
> > > him to know
> > > > > > > what's a proper workflow to corporate with the community? It
> will
> > > take much
> > > > > > > time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our
> community
> > > grows as
> > > > > > > well :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English
> to
> > > Chinese.
> > > > > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> > > MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > > > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those
> changes,
> > > in my own
> > > > > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to
> translate
> > > all
> > > > > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more
> > > smoothly. His
> > > > > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of
> > > change will
> > > > > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX
> members,
> > > right? I
> > > > > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2.4 I don't mean that we rejected PRs, I only want to encourage
> > our
> > > > > > > committers, PMCs to lead our contributors to grow and involve
> in
> > > our
> > > > > > > community.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, days ago I heard the same feedback from community members,
> > > they don't
> > > > > > > know how to take part in us and what they can do. We "think"
> they
> > > know, but
> > > > > > > actually not for some developers. It seems that there lacks a
> > > "Contribution
> > > > > > > Chain".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I sincerely encourage all of us to take more attention to
> > > Developers,
> > > > > > > Codes, Documentations, and Ecosystems, to make our community
> much
> > > better!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1]
> https://github.com/apache/apisix/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
> > > > > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892/files
> > > > > > > [3] https://github.com/hnlq715
> > > > > > > [4] https://stackshare.io/stackups/opentracing-vs-zipkin
> > > > > > > [5] https://apisix.apache.org/team
> > > > > > > [6] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4477
> > > > > > > [7] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5592/files
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午9:16写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers
> submit;
> > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't think Apache APISIX has such problems. Are there
> > > specific issues
> > > > > > > > and PRs?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bozhong Yu <im...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午12:53写道：
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > There have a lot of environments and dependencies that
> need
> > > to take
> > > > > > > > > care of or install
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That's right. Even if I follow the documentation and
> execute
> > > make deps, I
> > > > > > > > > still get errors. Maybe we can add more error handling:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:12写道：
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I think it's great.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > 下午11:04写道：
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test
> > cases,
> > > but Test
> > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find the
> > doc:
> > > > > > > > > > > https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > 下午10:44写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > How about this title?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <
> > > baoyuan.top@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use video and docs to
> > > share how to
> > > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first
> line
> > > of code, how
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > debug
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more content
> > > like this.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com>
> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > 下午7:45写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal
> > experience.
> > > it take my
> > > > > > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to
> > > share how to
> > > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first
> > line
> > > of code,
> > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > > 下午4:26写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community
> users
> > > asked me
> > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > involve
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share
> > the
> > > > > > > > information
> > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20
> > > developers joined
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > and the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth
> > for
> > > newcomers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that
> > > developers submit;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can
> > > contribute;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache
> APISIX
> > > and its
> > > > > > > > > > products:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that
> > lack
> > > tech
> > > > > > > > > details,
> > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > developers need to read and debug from source
> > > codes;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and
> > > dependencies that
> > > > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to
> > program
> > > test
> > > > > > > > cases,
> > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > Test
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers
> > run
> > > test cases
> > > > > > > > > > > locally,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of
> > > environmental issues.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow
> > about
> > > how to
> > > > > > > > > > corporate
> > > > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others in the community, they need more courage
> > > and mentors.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`,
> > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others,
> > and
> > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and
> > > frequently,
> > > > > > > > attendees
> > > > > > > > > > > > > complained
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include
> > > Production Best
> > > > > > > > > > > Practice
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they
> > could
> > > easily
> > > > > > > > find
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a
> > > demo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache
> APISIX
> > > Dashboard
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > just a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > demo,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We
> > > hope it's not
> > > > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to
> > use
> > > it in
> > > > > > > > > > > production.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our
> > > developers are
> > > > > > > > facing,
> > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this!
> > For
> > > the issues
> > > > > > > > > > > above,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > kindly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Ming Wen <we...@apache.org>]

Apache APISIX has such guidelines[1], we can improve this document

[1] https://github.com/apache/apisix/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md

Thanks,
Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
Twitter: _WenMing


Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:11写道：

> > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
>
> In my own opinion, lacking a "Contribution Chain/Workflow" is the key point
> why Apache APISIX will receive those PRs. We think they know, actually not.
>
> Best Regards!
> @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
>
>
> Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:08写道：
>
> > I think the contributor should learn the basic manner before
> contributing.
> > Eg, discuss in the community first, don't spam too many non-value
> > changes which don't bring a real contribution.
> >
> > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:06写道：
> > >
> > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to
> > Chinese.
> > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> > MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes, in my
> > own
> > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate all
> > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more smoothly.
> His
> > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of change
> will
> > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members,
> right?
> > I
> > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> > >
> > > It's incorrect. In that PR he just translates English comments into
> > > Chinese doc. It is different from translating docs from English to
> > > Chinese.
> > >
> > > They are two different things. Why do need to change the English
> > > comments, because it is not pure Chinese? **Again, he didn't discuss
> > > this in the community.**
> > >
> > > And before he did this, he has been submitted several trivial PRs per
> > > day several times, which makes the behavior very skeptical.
> > >
> > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:00写道：
> > > >
> > > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
> > > >
> > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:59写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > The PR #4892 doesn't correct anything. It is retelling the same
> > thing in other words. The original statement is already correct.
> > > > >
> > > > > And if you look at the history carefully, that contributor doesn't
> > have a good reputation to submit valuable PR. He didn't discuss what he
> did
> > in the community.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, we still merge some of his PR which brings real value.
> > > > >
> > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:42写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. This feedback comes from attendees, they don't mention Apache
> > APISIX has
> > > > > > these cases, so I use "some communities" here;
> > > > > > 2. I just checked history PRs from here[1], and found some closed
> > PRs which
> > > > > > are related to Documentations. I reviewed changes and comments,
> > emmm, I
> > > > > > agree to close some of them due to unnecessary changes or
> > reasonable
> > > > > > feedbacks, but here are still have some PRs that we could have a
> > discussion
> > > > > > about, I picked 3 cases from them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2.1 In PR #4892, one of Douyu's contributors[3] wanted to update
> > the Zipkin
> > > > > > plugin's docs:
> > > > > > 2.1.1 This PR updated doc's title from `Zipkin` to `zipkin`,
> > because the
> > > > > > author thought it's better to keep the same as other plugins' doc
> > title;
> > > > > > 2.1.2 This PR changed the description from "Zipkin is a
> > OpenTracing plugin"
> > > > > > to "zipkin is a plugin for [Zipkin](
> > https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin),
> > > > > > which is a distributed tracing system.";
> > > > > > 2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :( I'm not
> > familiar with
> > > > > > OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the difference
> > between them,
> > > > > > so I search Google and here has a "VS" from StackShare[4], it
> > seems that
> > > > > > the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954)
> > > > > > 2.1.4 Maybe this PR change was "trivial" as the comment says, but
> > I have to
> > > > > > say, everyone likes the correct documentation :) So one
> > contributor wants
> > > > > > to make our docs more correct and better, why not accept it?
> After
> > > > > > consideration, though the ASF doesn't ask us to do this, I really
> > hope our
> > > > > > committers and PMCs[5] help our the most active reviewers to
> > review PRs,
> > > > > > bcoz everyone's energy is not unlimited, our community needs your
> > help to
> > > > > > grow and spread.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use
> Docusaurus's
> > syntax
> > > > > > to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's Docs
> website:
> > > > > > 2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change will break
> > the
> > > > > > reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most developers, and
> we
> > could do
> > > > > > this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get that point
> > or didn't
> > > > > > notice/know the workflow IMO.
> > > > > > 2.2.2 It seems that the reviewer is feeling bad about this kind
> of
> > PRs, I
> > > > > > totally can understand the feeling: No other reviewers, Duplicate
> > PRs
> > > > > > without discussions, and other things will affect our feeling. I
> > will feel
> > > > > > bad, too :(
> > > > > > 2.2.3 We Apache APISIX is a long-term and powerful community like
> > other
> > > > > > awesome communities, I make sure we will face any kinds of issues
> > like
> > > > > > this, maybe we could be more friendly to our contributors?
> > Community is
> > > > > > grown with People, find our powerful users/contributors, get to
> > know them
> > > > > > :)
> > > > > > 2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs can lead
> > him to know
> > > > > > what's a proper workflow to corporate with the community? It will
> > take much
> > > > > > time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our community
> > grows as
> > > > > > well :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to
> > Chinese.
> > > > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> > MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes,
> > in my own
> > > > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate
> > all
> > > > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more
> > smoothly. His
> > > > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of
> > change will
> > > > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members,
> > right? I
> > > > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2.4 I don't mean that we rejected PRs, I only want to encourage
> our
> > > > > > committers, PMCs to lead our contributors to grow and involve in
> > our
> > > > > > community.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, days ago I heard the same feedback from community members,
> > they don't
> > > > > > know how to take part in us and what they can do. We "think" they
> > know, but
> > > > > > actually not for some developers. It seems that there lacks a
> > "Contribution
> > > > > > Chain".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I sincerely encourage all of us to take more attention to
> > Developers,
> > > > > > Codes, Documentations, and Ecosystems, to make our community much
> > better!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
> > > > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892/files
> > > > > > [3] https://github.com/hnlq715
> > > > > > [4] https://stackshare.io/stackups/opentracing-vs-zipkin
> > > > > > [5] https://apisix.apache.org/team
> > > > > > [6] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4477
> > > > > > [7] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5592/files
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午9:16写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't think Apache APISIX has such problems. Are there
> > specific issues
> > > > > > > and PRs?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bozhong Yu <im...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午12:53写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need
> > to take
> > > > > > > > care of or install
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That's right. Even if I follow the documentation and execute
> > make deps, I
> > > > > > > > still get errors. Maybe we can add more error handling:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
> https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:12写道：
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I think it's great.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > 下午11:04写道：
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test
> cases,
> > but Test
> > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find the
> doc:
> > > > > > > > > > https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > 下午10:44写道：
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > How about this title?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <
> > baoyuan.top@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use video and docs to
> > share how to
> > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first line
> > of code, how
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > debug
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more content
> > like this.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > 下午7:45写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal
> experience.
> > it take my
> > > > > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to
> > share how to
> > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first
> line
> > of code,
> > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> > 下午4:26写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users
> > asked me
> > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > involve
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share
> the
> > > > > > > information
> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20
> > developers joined
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > and the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth
> for
> > newcomers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that
> > developers submit;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can
> > contribute;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX
> > and its
> > > > > > > > > products:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that
> lack
> > tech
> > > > > > > > details,
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > developers need to read and debug from source
> > codes;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and
> > dependencies that
> > > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to
> program
> > test
> > > > > > > cases,
> > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > Test
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers
> run
> > test cases
> > > > > > > > > > locally,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of
> > environmental issues.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow
> about
> > how to
> > > > > > > > > corporate
> > > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > others in the community, they need more courage
> > and mentors.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`,
> > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others,
> and
> > only
> > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and
> > frequently,
> > > > > > > attendees
> > > > > > > > > > > > complained
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include
> > Production Best
> > > > > > > > > > Practice
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they
> could
> > easily
> > > > > > > find
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a
> > demo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX
> > Dashboard
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > just a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > demo,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We
> > hope it's not
> > > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to
> use
> > it in
> > > > > > > > > > production.
> > > > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our
> > developers are
> > > > > > > facing,
> > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this!
> For
> > the issues
> > > > > > > > > > above,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > kindly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> >
>

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org>]

> If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?

In my own opinion, lacking a "Contribution Chain/Workflow" is the key point
why Apache APISIX will receive those PRs. We think they know, actually not.

Best Regards!
@ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>


Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:08写道：

> I think the contributor should learn the basic manner before contributing.
> Eg, discuss in the community first, don't spam too many non-value
> changes which don't bring a real contribution.
>
> Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:06写道：
> >
> > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to
> Chinese.
> > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes, in my
> own
> > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate all
> > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more smoothly. His
> > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of change will
> > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members, right?
> I
> > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> >
> > It's incorrect. In that PR he just translates English comments into
> > Chinese doc. It is different from translating docs from English to
> > Chinese.
> >
> > They are two different things. Why do need to change the English
> > comments, because it is not pure Chinese? **Again, he didn't discuss
> > this in the community.**
> >
> > And before he did this, he has been submitted several trivial PRs per
> > day several times, which makes the behavior very skeptical.
> >
> > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:00写道：
> > >
> > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
> > >
> > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:59写道：
> > > >
> > > > The PR #4892 doesn't correct anything. It is retelling the same
> thing in other words. The original statement is already correct.
> > > >
> > > > And if you look at the history carefully, that contributor doesn't
> have a good reputation to submit valuable PR. He didn't discuss what he did
> in the community.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, we still merge some of his PR which brings real value.
> > > >
> > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:42写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. This feedback comes from attendees, they don't mention Apache
> APISIX has
> > > > > these cases, so I use "some communities" here;
> > > > > 2. I just checked history PRs from here[1], and found some closed
> PRs which
> > > > > are related to Documentations. I reviewed changes and comments,
> emmm, I
> > > > > agree to close some of them due to unnecessary changes or
> reasonable
> > > > > feedbacks, but here are still have some PRs that we could have a
> discussion
> > > > > about, I picked 3 cases from them.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2.1 In PR #4892, one of Douyu's contributors[3] wanted to update
> the Zipkin
> > > > > plugin's docs:
> > > > > 2.1.1 This PR updated doc's title from `Zipkin` to `zipkin`,
> because the
> > > > > author thought it's better to keep the same as other plugins' doc
> title;
> > > > > 2.1.2 This PR changed the description from "Zipkin is a
> OpenTracing plugin"
> > > > > to "zipkin is a plugin for [Zipkin](
> https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin),
> > > > > which is a distributed tracing system.";
> > > > > 2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :( I'm not
> familiar with
> > > > > OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the difference
> between them,
> > > > > so I search Google and here has a "VS" from StackShare[4], it
> seems that
> > > > > the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954)
> > > > > 2.1.4 Maybe this PR change was "trivial" as the comment says, but
> I have to
> > > > > say, everyone likes the correct documentation :) So one
> contributor wants
> > > > > to make our docs more correct and better, why not accept it? After
> > > > > consideration, though the ASF doesn't ask us to do this, I really
> hope our
> > > > > committers and PMCs[5] help our the most active reviewers to
> review PRs,
> > > > > bcoz everyone's energy is not unlimited, our community needs your
> help to
> > > > > grow and spread.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use Docusaurus's
> syntax
> > > > > to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's Docs website:
> > > > > 2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change will break
> the
> > > > > reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most developers, and we
> could do
> > > > > this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get that point
> or didn't
> > > > > notice/know the workflow IMO.
> > > > > 2.2.2 It seems that the reviewer is feeling bad about this kind of
> PRs, I
> > > > > totally can understand the feeling: No other reviewers, Duplicate
> PRs
> > > > > without discussions, and other things will affect our feeling. I
> will feel
> > > > > bad, too :(
> > > > > 2.2.3 We Apache APISIX is a long-term and powerful community like
> other
> > > > > awesome communities, I make sure we will face any kinds of issues
> like
> > > > > this, maybe we could be more friendly to our contributors?
> Community is
> > > > > grown with People, find our powerful users/contributors, get to
> know them
> > > > > :)
> > > > > 2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs can lead
> him to know
> > > > > what's a proper workflow to corporate with the community? It will
> take much
> > > > > time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our community
> grows as
> > > > > well :)
> > > > >
> > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to
> Chinese.
> > > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes,
> in my own
> > > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate
> all
> > > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more
> smoothly. His
> > > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of
> change will
> > > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members,
> right? I
> > > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2.4 I don't mean that we rejected PRs, I only want to encourage our
> > > > > committers, PMCs to lead our contributors to grow and involve in
> our
> > > > > community.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, days ago I heard the same feedback from community members,
> they don't
> > > > > know how to take part in us and what they can do. We "think" they
> know, but
> > > > > actually not for some developers. It seems that there lacks a
> "Contribution
> > > > > Chain".
> > > > >
> > > > > I sincerely encourage all of us to take more attention to
> Developers,
> > > > > Codes, Documentations, and Ecosystems, to make our community much
> better!
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
> > > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892/files
> > > > > [3] https://github.com/hnlq715
> > > > > [4] https://stackshare.io/stackups/opentracing-vs-zipkin
> > > > > [5] https://apisix.apache.org/team
> > > > > [6] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4477
> > > > > [7] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5592/files
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午9:16写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't think Apache APISIX has such problems. Are there
> specific issues
> > > > > > and PRs?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bozhong Yu <im...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午12:53写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need
> to take
> > > > > > > care of or install
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That's right. Even if I follow the documentation and execute
> make deps, I
> > > > > > > still get errors. Maybe we can add more error handling:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:12写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think it's great.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> 下午11:04写道：
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases,
> but Test
> > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find the doc:
> > > > > > > > > https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> 下午10:44写道：
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > How about this title?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <
> baoyuan.top@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use video and docs to
> share how to
> > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first line
> of code, how
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > debug
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more content
> like this.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三
> 下午7:45写道：
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal experience.
> it take my
> > > > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to
> share how to
> > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first line
> of code,
> > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> 下午4:26写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users
> asked me
> > > > > > how
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > involve
> > > > > > > > > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the
> > > > > > information
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20
> developers joined
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > and the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for
> newcomers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that
> developers submit;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can
> contribute;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX
> and its
> > > > > > > > products:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack
> tech
> > > > > > > details,
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > developers need to read and debug from source
> codes;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and
> dependencies that
> > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > > > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program
> test
> > > > > > cases,
> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > Test
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run
> test cases
> > > > > > > > > locally,
> > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of
> environmental issues.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about
> how to
> > > > > > > > corporate
> > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > others in the community, they need more courage
> and mentors.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`,
> > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and
> only
> > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > > > > > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and
> frequently,
> > > > > > attendees
> > > > > > > > > > > complained
> > > > > > > > > > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include
> Production Best
> > > > > > > > > Practice
> > > > > > > > > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could
> easily
> > > > > > find
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a
> demo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX
> Dashboard
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > just a
> > > > > > > > > > > > demo,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We
> hope it's not
> > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use
> it in
> > > > > > > > > production.
> > > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our
> developers are
> > > > > > facing,
> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this! For
> the issues
> > > > > > > > > above,
> > > > > > > > > > > > kindly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
>

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Ming Wen <we...@apache.org>]

I agree with zexuan's view that no meaningful document modification will
not bring community activity.

 Thanks,
Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
Twitter: _WenMing


Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:08写道：

> I think the contributor should learn the basic manner before contributing.
> Eg, discuss in the community first, don't spam too many non-value
> changes which don't bring a real contribution.
>
> Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:06写道：
> >
> > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to
> Chinese.
> > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes, in my
> own
> > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate all
> > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more smoothly. His
> > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of change will
> > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members, right?
> I
> > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> >
> > It's incorrect. In that PR he just translates English comments into
> > Chinese doc. It is different from translating docs from English to
> > Chinese.
> >
> > They are two different things. Why do need to change the English
> > comments, because it is not pure Chinese? **Again, he didn't discuss
> > this in the community.**
> >
> > And before he did this, he has been submitted several trivial PRs per
> > day several times, which makes the behavior very skeptical.
> >
> > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:00写道：
> > >
> > > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
> > >
> > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:59写道：
> > > >
> > > > The PR #4892 doesn't correct anything. It is retelling the same
> thing in other words. The original statement is already correct.
> > > >
> > > > And if you look at the history carefully, that contributor doesn't
> have a good reputation to submit valuable PR. He didn't discuss what he did
> in the community.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, we still merge some of his PR which brings real value.
> > > >
> > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:42写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. This feedback comes from attendees, they don't mention Apache
> APISIX has
> > > > > these cases, so I use "some communities" here;
> > > > > 2. I just checked history PRs from here[1], and found some closed
> PRs which
> > > > > are related to Documentations. I reviewed changes and comments,
> emmm, I
> > > > > agree to close some of them due to unnecessary changes or
> reasonable
> > > > > feedbacks, but here are still have some PRs that we could have a
> discussion
> > > > > about, I picked 3 cases from them.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2.1 In PR #4892, one of Douyu's contributors[3] wanted to update
> the Zipkin
> > > > > plugin's docs:
> > > > > 2.1.1 This PR updated doc's title from `Zipkin` to `zipkin`,
> because the
> > > > > author thought it's better to keep the same as other plugins' doc
> title;
> > > > > 2.1.2 This PR changed the description from "Zipkin is a
> OpenTracing plugin"
> > > > > to "zipkin is a plugin for [Zipkin](
> https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin),
> > > > > which is a distributed tracing system.";
> > > > > 2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :( I'm not
> familiar with
> > > > > OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the difference
> between them,
> > > > > so I search Google and here has a "VS" from StackShare[4], it
> seems that
> > > > > the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954)
> > > > > 2.1.4 Maybe this PR change was "trivial" as the comment says, but
> I have to
> > > > > say, everyone likes the correct documentation :) So one
> contributor wants
> > > > > to make our docs more correct and better, why not accept it? After
> > > > > consideration, though the ASF doesn't ask us to do this, I really
> hope our
> > > > > committers and PMCs[5] help our the most active reviewers to
> review PRs,
> > > > > bcoz everyone's energy is not unlimited, our community needs your
> help to
> > > > > grow and spread.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use Docusaurus's
> syntax
> > > > > to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's Docs website:
> > > > > 2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change will break
> the
> > > > > reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most developers, and we
> could do
> > > > > this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get that point
> or didn't
> > > > > notice/know the workflow IMO.
> > > > > 2.2.2 It seems that the reviewer is feeling bad about this kind of
> PRs, I
> > > > > totally can understand the feeling: No other reviewers, Duplicate
> PRs
> > > > > without discussions, and other things will affect our feeling. I
> will feel
> > > > > bad, too :(
> > > > > 2.2.3 We Apache APISIX is a long-term and powerful community like
> other
> > > > > awesome communities, I make sure we will face any kinds of issues
> like
> > > > > this, maybe we could be more friendly to our contributors?
> Community is
> > > > > grown with People, find our powerful users/contributors, get to
> know them
> > > > > :)
> > > > > 2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs can lead
> him to know
> > > > > what's a proper workflow to corporate with the community? It will
> take much
> > > > > time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our community
> grows as
> > > > > well :)
> > > > >
> > > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to
> Chinese.
> > > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not
> MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes,
> in my own
> > > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate
> all
> > > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more
> smoothly. His
> > > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of
> change will
> > > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members,
> right? I
> > > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2.4 I don't mean that we rejected PRs, I only want to encourage our
> > > > > committers, PMCs to lead our contributors to grow and involve in
> our
> > > > > community.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, days ago I heard the same feedback from community members,
> they don't
> > > > > know how to take part in us and what they can do. We "think" they
> know, but
> > > > > actually not for some developers. It seems that there lacks a
> "Contribution
> > > > > Chain".
> > > > >
> > > > > I sincerely encourage all of us to take more attention to
> Developers,
> > > > > Codes, Documentations, and Ecosystems, to make our community much
> better!
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
> > > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892/files
> > > > > [3] https://github.com/hnlq715
> > > > > [4] https://stackshare.io/stackups/opentracing-vs-zipkin
> > > > > [5] https://apisix.apache.org/team
> > > > > [6] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4477
> > > > > [7] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5592/files
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午9:16写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't think Apache APISIX has such problems. Are there
> specific issues
> > > > > > and PRs?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bozhong Yu <im...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午12:53写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need
> to take
> > > > > > > care of or install
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That's right. Even if I follow the documentation and execute
> make deps, I
> > > > > > > still get errors. Maybe we can add more error handling:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:12写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think it's great.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> 下午11:04写道：
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases,
> but Test
> > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find the doc:
> > > > > > > > > https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> 下午10:44写道：
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > How about this title?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <
> baoyuan.top@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use video and docs to
> share how to
> > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first line
> of code, how
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > debug
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more content
> like this.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三
> 下午7:45写道：
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal experience.
> it take my
> > > > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to
> share how to
> > > > > > set
> > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first line
> of code,
> > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三
> 下午4:26写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users
> asked me
> > > > > > how
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > involve
> > > > > > > > > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the
> > > > > > information
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20
> developers joined
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > and the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for
> newcomers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that
> developers submit;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can
> contribute;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX
> and its
> > > > > > > > products:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack
> tech
> > > > > > > details,
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > developers need to read and debug from source
> codes;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and
> dependencies that
> > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > > > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program
> test
> > > > > > cases,
> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > Test
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run
> test cases
> > > > > > > > > locally,
> > > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of
> environmental issues.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about
> how to
> > > > > > > > corporate
> > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > others in the community, they need more courage
> and mentors.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`,
> > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and
> only
> > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > > > > > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and
> frequently,
> > > > > > attendees
> > > > > > > > > > > complained
> > > > > > > > > > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include
> Production Best
> > > > > > > > > Practice
> > > > > > > > > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could
> easily
> > > > > > find
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a
> demo.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX
> Dashboard
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > just a
> > > > > > > > > > > > demo,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We
> hope it's not
> > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use
> it in
> > > > > > > > > production.
> > > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our
> developers are
> > > > > > facing,
> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this! For
> the issues
> > > > > > > > > above,
> > > > > > > > > > > > kindly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
>

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org>]

I think the contributor should learn the basic manner before contributing.
Eg, discuss in the community first, don't spam too many non-value
changes which don't bring a real contribution.

Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:06写道：
>
> > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to Chinese.
> 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not MUST-to-CHANGE,
> but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes, in my own
> opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate all
> English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more smoothly. His
> original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of change will
> increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members, right? I
> sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
>
> It's incorrect. In that PR he just translates English comments into
> Chinese doc. It is different from translating docs from English to
> Chinese.
>
> They are two different things. Why do need to change the English
> comments, because it is not pure Chinese? **Again, he didn't discuss
> this in the community.**
>
> And before he did this, he has been submitted several trivial PRs per
> day several times, which makes the behavior very skeptical.
>
> Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:00写道：
> >
> > If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
> >
> > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:59写道：
> > >
> > > The PR #4892 doesn't correct anything. It is retelling the same thing in other words. The original statement is already correct.
> > >
> > > And if you look at the history carefully, that contributor doesn't have a good reputation to submit valuable PR. He didn't discuss what he did in the community.
> > >
> > > Anyway, we still merge some of his PR which brings real value.
> > >
> > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:42写道：
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > >
> > > > 1. This feedback comes from attendees, they don't mention Apache APISIX has
> > > > these cases, so I use "some communities" here;
> > > > 2. I just checked history PRs from here[1], and found some closed PRs which
> > > > are related to Documentations. I reviewed changes and comments, emmm, I
> > > > agree to close some of them due to unnecessary changes or reasonable
> > > > feedbacks, but here are still have some PRs that we could have a discussion
> > > > about, I picked 3 cases from them.
> > > >
> > > > 2.1 In PR #4892, one of Douyu's contributors[3] wanted to update the Zipkin
> > > > plugin's docs:
> > > > 2.1.1 This PR updated doc's title from `Zipkin` to `zipkin`, because the
> > > > author thought it's better to keep the same as other plugins' doc title;
> > > > 2.1.2 This PR changed the description from "Zipkin is a OpenTracing plugin"
> > > > to "zipkin is a plugin for [Zipkin](https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin),
> > > > which is a distributed tracing system.";
> > > > 2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :( I'm not familiar with
> > > > OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the difference between them,
> > > > so I search Google and here has a "VS" from StackShare[4], it seems that
> > > > the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954)
> > > > 2.1.4 Maybe this PR change was "trivial" as the comment says, but I have to
> > > > say, everyone likes the correct documentation :) So one contributor wants
> > > > to make our docs more correct and better, why not accept it? After
> > > > consideration, though the ASF doesn't ask us to do this, I really hope our
> > > > committers and PMCs[5] help our the most active reviewers to review PRs,
> > > > bcoz everyone's energy is not unlimited, our community needs your help to
> > > > grow and spread.
> > > >
> > > > 2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use Docusaurus's syntax
> > > > to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's Docs website:
> > > > 2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change will break the
> > > > reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most developers, and we could do
> > > > this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get that point or didn't
> > > > notice/know the workflow IMO.
> > > > 2.2.2 It seems that the reviewer is feeling bad about this kind of PRs, I
> > > > totally can understand the feeling: No other reviewers, Duplicate PRs
> > > > without discussions, and other things will affect our feeling. I will feel
> > > > bad, too :(
> > > > 2.2.3 We Apache APISIX is a long-term and powerful community like other
> > > > awesome communities, I make sure we will face any kinds of issues like
> > > > this, maybe we could be more friendly to our contributors? Community is
> > > > grown with People, find our powerful users/contributors, get to know them
> > > > :)
> > > > 2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs can lead him to know
> > > > what's a proper workflow to corporate with the community? It will take much
> > > > time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our community grows as
> > > > well :)
> > > >
> > > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to Chinese.
> > > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes, in my own
> > > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate all
> > > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more smoothly. His
> > > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of change will
> > > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members, right? I
> > > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> > > >
> > > > 2.4 I don't mean that we rejected PRs, I only want to encourage our
> > > > committers, PMCs to lead our contributors to grow and involve in our
> > > > community.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > >
> > > > Yes, days ago I heard the same feedback from community members, they don't
> > > > know how to take part in us and what they can do. We "think" they know, but
> > > > actually not for some developers. It seems that there lacks a "Contribution
> > > > Chain".
> > > >
> > > > I sincerely encourage all of us to take more attention to Developers,
> > > > Codes, Documentations, and Ecosystems, to make our community much better!
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
> > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892/files
> > > > [3] https://github.com/hnlq715
> > > > [4] https://stackshare.io/stackups/opentracing-vs-zipkin
> > > > [5] https://apisix.apache.org/team
> > > > [6] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4477
> > > > [7] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5592/files
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards!
> > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午9:16写道：
> > > >
> > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't think Apache APISIX has such problems. Are there specific issues
> > > > > and PRs?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bozhong Yu <im...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午12:53写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > > There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need to take
> > > > > > care of or install
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That's right. Even if I follow the documentation and execute make deps, I
> > > > > > still get errors. Maybe we can add more error handling:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:12写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think it's great.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:04写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but Test
> > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find the doc:
> > > > > > > > https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午10:44写道：
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > How about this title?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use video and docs to share how to
> > > > > set
> > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > debug
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more content like this.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午7:45写道：
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal experience. it take my
> > > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to share how to
> > > > > set
> > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first line of code,
> > > > > how
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午4:26写道：
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users asked me
> > > > > how
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > involve
> > > > > > > > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the
> > > > > information
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20 developers joined
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > and the
> > > > > > > > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for newcomers.
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX and its
> > > > > > > products:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack tech
> > > > > > details,
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > developers need to read and debug from source codes;
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and dependencies that
> > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test
> > > > > cases,
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > Test
> > > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run test cases
> > > > > > > > locally,
> > > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of environmental issues.
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about how to
> > > > > > > corporate
> > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > others in the community, they need more courage and mentors.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`,
> > > > > > > `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and only
> > > > > > > > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > > > > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and frequently,
> > > > > attendees
> > > > > > > > > > complained
> > > > > > > > > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include Production Best
> > > > > > > > Practice
> > > > > > > > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could easily
> > > > > find
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a demo.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX Dashboard
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > just a
> > > > > > > > > > > demo,
> > > > > > > > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We hope it's not
> > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use it in
> > > > > > > > production.
> > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our developers are
> > > > > facing,
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this! For the issues
> > > > > > > > above,
> > > > > > > > > > > kindly
> > > > > > > > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org>]

> 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to Chinese.
2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not MUST-to-CHANGE,
but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes, in my own
opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate all
English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more smoothly. His
original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of change will
increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members, right? I
sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.

It's incorrect. In that PR he just translates English comments into
Chinese doc. It is different from translating docs from English to
Chinese.

They are two different things. Why do need to change the English
comments, because it is not pure Chinese? **Again, he didn't discuss
this in the community.**

And before he did this, he has been submitted several trivial PRs per
day several times, which makes the behavior very skeptical.

Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 下午12:00写道：
>
> If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?
>
> Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:59写道：
> >
> > The PR #4892 doesn't correct anything. It is retelling the same thing in other words. The original statement is already correct.
> >
> > And if you look at the history carefully, that contributor doesn't have a good reputation to submit valuable PR. He didn't discuss what he did in the community.
> >
> > Anyway, we still merge some of his PR which brings real value.
> >
> > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:42写道：
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > >
> > > 1. This feedback comes from attendees, they don't mention Apache APISIX has
> > > these cases, so I use "some communities" here;
> > > 2. I just checked history PRs from here[1], and found some closed PRs which
> > > are related to Documentations. I reviewed changes and comments, emmm, I
> > > agree to close some of them due to unnecessary changes or reasonable
> > > feedbacks, but here are still have some PRs that we could have a discussion
> > > about, I picked 3 cases from them.
> > >
> > > 2.1 In PR #4892, one of Douyu's contributors[3] wanted to update the Zipkin
> > > plugin's docs:
> > > 2.1.1 This PR updated doc's title from `Zipkin` to `zipkin`, because the
> > > author thought it's better to keep the same as other plugins' doc title;
> > > 2.1.2 This PR changed the description from "Zipkin is a OpenTracing plugin"
> > > to "zipkin is a plugin for [Zipkin](https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin),
> > > which is a distributed tracing system.";
> > > 2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :( I'm not familiar with
> > > OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the difference between them,
> > > so I search Google and here has a "VS" from StackShare[4], it seems that
> > > the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954)
> > > 2.1.4 Maybe this PR change was "trivial" as the comment says, but I have to
> > > say, everyone likes the correct documentation :) So one contributor wants
> > > to make our docs more correct and better, why not accept it? After
> > > consideration, though the ASF doesn't ask us to do this, I really hope our
> > > committers and PMCs[5] help our the most active reviewers to review PRs,
> > > bcoz everyone's energy is not unlimited, our community needs your help to
> > > grow and spread.
> > >
> > > 2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use Docusaurus's syntax
> > > to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's Docs website:
> > > 2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change will break the
> > > reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most developers, and we could do
> > > this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get that point or didn't
> > > notice/know the workflow IMO.
> > > 2.2.2 It seems that the reviewer is feeling bad about this kind of PRs, I
> > > totally can understand the feeling: No other reviewers, Duplicate PRs
> > > without discussions, and other things will affect our feeling. I will feel
> > > bad, too :(
> > > 2.2.3 We Apache APISIX is a long-term and powerful community like other
> > > awesome communities, I make sure we will face any kinds of issues like
> > > this, maybe we could be more friendly to our contributors? Community is
> > > grown with People, find our powerful users/contributors, get to know them
> > > :)
> > > 2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs can lead him to know
> > > what's a proper workflow to corporate with the community? It will take much
> > > time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our community grows as
> > > well :)
> > >
> > > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to Chinese.
> > > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes, in my own
> > > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate all
> > > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more smoothly. His
> > > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of change will
> > > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members, right? I
> > > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> > >
> > > 2.4 I don't mean that we rejected PRs, I only want to encourage our
> > > committers, PMCs to lead our contributors to grow and involve in our
> > > community.
> > >
> > >
> > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > >
> > > Yes, days ago I heard the same feedback from community members, they don't
> > > know how to take part in us and what they can do. We "think" they know, but
> > > actually not for some developers. It seems that there lacks a "Contribution
> > > Chain".
> > >
> > > I sincerely encourage all of us to take more attention to Developers,
> > > Codes, Documentations, and Ecosystems, to make our community much better!
> > >
> > > [1] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
> > > [2] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892/files
> > > [3] https://github.com/hnlq715
> > > [4] https://stackshare.io/stackups/opentracing-vs-zipkin
> > > [5] https://apisix.apache.org/team
> > > [6] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4477
> > > [7] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5592/files
> > >
> > > Best Regards!
> > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > >
> > >
> > > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午9:16写道：
> > >
> > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > >
> > > > I don't think Apache APISIX has such problems. Are there specific issues
> > > > and PRs?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bozhong Yu <im...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午12:53写道：
> > > >
> > > > > > There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need to take
> > > > > care of or install
> > > > >
> > > > > That's right. Even if I follow the documentation and execute make deps, I
> > > > > still get errors. Maybe we can add more error handling:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation
> > > > >
> > > > > Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:12写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think it's great.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:04写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but Test
> > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find the doc:
> > > > > > > https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午10:44写道：
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How about this title?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use video and docs to share how to
> > > > set
> > > > > > up
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > debug
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more content like this.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午7:45写道：
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal experience. it take my
> > > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to share how to
> > > > set
> > > > > > up
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first line of code,
> > > > how
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午4:26写道：
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users asked me
> > > > how
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > involve
> > > > > > > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the
> > > > information
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20 developers joined
> > > > in
> > > > > > > and the
> > > > > > > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > > > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for newcomers.
> > > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX and its
> > > > > > products:
> > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack tech
> > > > > details,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > developers need to read and debug from source codes;
> > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and dependencies that
> > > > > need
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > > > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test
> > > > cases,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > Test
> > > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run test cases
> > > > > > > locally,
> > > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of environmental issues.
> > > > > > > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about how to
> > > > > > corporate
> > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > others in the community, they need more courage and mentors.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`,
> > > > > > `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and only
> > > > > > > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > > > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and frequently,
> > > > attendees
> > > > > > > > > complained
> > > > > > > > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include Production Best
> > > > > > > Practice
> > > > > > > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could easily
> > > > find
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a demo.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX Dashboard
> > > > is
> > > > > > > just a
> > > > > > > > > > demo,
> > > > > > > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We hope it's not
> > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use it in
> > > > > > > production.
> > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our developers are
> > > > facing,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this! For the issues
> > > > > > > above,
> > > > > > > > > > kindly
> > > > > > > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org>]

If any PRs can be accepted, why requires reviewers?

Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:59写道：
>
> The PR #4892 doesn't correct anything. It is retelling the same thing in other words. The original statement is already correct.
>
> And if you look at the history carefully, that contributor doesn't have a good reputation to submit valuable PR. He didn't discuss what he did in the community.
>
> Anyway, we still merge some of his PR which brings real value.
>
> Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:42写道：
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> >
> > 1. This feedback comes from attendees, they don't mention Apache APISIX has
> > these cases, so I use "some communities" here;
> > 2. I just checked history PRs from here[1], and found some closed PRs which
> > are related to Documentations. I reviewed changes and comments, emmm, I
> > agree to close some of them due to unnecessary changes or reasonable
> > feedbacks, but here are still have some PRs that we could have a discussion
> > about, I picked 3 cases from them.
> >
> > 2.1 In PR #4892, one of Douyu's contributors[3] wanted to update the Zipkin
> > plugin's docs:
> > 2.1.1 This PR updated doc's title from `Zipkin` to `zipkin`, because the
> > author thought it's better to keep the same as other plugins' doc title;
> > 2.1.2 This PR changed the description from "Zipkin is a OpenTracing plugin"
> > to "zipkin is a plugin for [Zipkin](https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin),
> > which is a distributed tracing system.";
> > 2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :( I'm not familiar with
> > OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the difference between them,
> > so I search Google and here has a "VS" from StackShare[4], it seems that
> > the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954)
> > 2.1.4 Maybe this PR change was "trivial" as the comment says, but I have to
> > say, everyone likes the correct documentation :) So one contributor wants
> > to make our docs more correct and better, why not accept it? After
> > consideration, though the ASF doesn't ask us to do this, I really hope our
> > committers and PMCs[5] help our the most active reviewers to review PRs,
> > bcoz everyone's energy is not unlimited, our community needs your help to
> > grow and spread.
> >
> > 2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use Docusaurus's syntax
> > to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's Docs website:
> > 2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change will break the
> > reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most developers, and we could do
> > this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get that point or didn't
> > notice/know the workflow IMO.
> > 2.2.2 It seems that the reviewer is feeling bad about this kind of PRs, I
> > totally can understand the feeling: No other reviewers, Duplicate PRs
> > without discussions, and other things will affect our feeling. I will feel
> > bad, too :(
> > 2.2.3 We Apache APISIX is a long-term and powerful community like other
> > awesome communities, I make sure we will face any kinds of issues like
> > this, maybe we could be more friendly to our contributors? Community is
> > grown with People, find our powerful users/contributors, get to know them
> > :)
> > 2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs can lead him to know
> > what's a proper workflow to corporate with the community? It will take much
> > time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our community grows as
> > well :)
> >
> > 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to Chinese.
> > 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not MUST-to-CHANGE,
> > but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes, in my own
> > opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate all
> > English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more smoothly. His
> > original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of change will
> > increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members, right? I
> > sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
> >
> > 2.4 I don't mean that we rejected PRs, I only want to encourage our
> > committers, PMCs to lead our contributors to grow and involve in our
> > community.
> >
> >
> > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> >
> > Yes, days ago I heard the same feedback from community members, they don't
> > know how to take part in us and what they can do. We "think" they know, but
> > actually not for some developers. It seems that there lacks a "Contribution
> > Chain".
> >
> > I sincerely encourage all of us to take more attention to Developers,
> > Codes, Documentations, and Ecosystems, to make our community much better!
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
> > [2] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892/files
> > [3] https://github.com/hnlq715
> > [4] https://stackshare.io/stackups/opentracing-vs-zipkin
> > [5] https://apisix.apache.org/team
> > [6] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4477
> > [7] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5592/files
> >
> > Best Regards!
> > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> >
> >
> > Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午9:16写道：
> >
> > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > >
> > > I don't think Apache APISIX has such problems. Are there specific issues
> > > and PRs?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > > Twitter: _WenMing
> > >
> > >
> > > Bozhong Yu <im...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午12:53写道：
> > >
> > > > > There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need to take
> > > > care of or install
> > > >
> > > > That's right. Even if I follow the documentation and execute make deps, I
> > > > still get errors. Maybe we can add more error handling:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation
> > > >
> > > > Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:12写道：
> > > >
> > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > >
> > > > > I think it's great.
> > > > >
> > > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:04写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but Test
> > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find the doc:
> > > > > > https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午10:44写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How about this title?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use video and docs to share how to
> > > set
> > > > > up
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > debug
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more content like this.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午7:45写道：
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal experience. it take my
> > > > > most
> > > > > > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to share how to
> > > set
> > > > > up
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first line of code,
> > > how
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午4:26写道：
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users asked me
> > > how
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > involve
> > > > > > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the
> > > information
> > > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20 developers joined
> > > in
> > > > > > and the
> > > > > > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for newcomers.
> > > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX and its
> > > > > products:
> > > > > > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack tech
> > > > details,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > developers need to read and debug from source codes;
> > > > > > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and dependencies that
> > > > need
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test
> > > cases,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > Test
> > > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run test cases
> > > > > > locally,
> > > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of environmental issues.
> > > > > > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about how to
> > > > > corporate
> > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > others in the community, they need more courage and mentors.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`,
> > > > > `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and only
> > > > > > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and frequently,
> > > attendees
> > > > > > > > complained
> > > > > > > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include Production Best
> > > > > > Practice
> > > > > > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could easily
> > > find
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a demo.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX Dashboard
> > > is
> > > > > > just a
> > > > > > > > > demo,
> > > > > > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We hope it's not
> > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use it in
> > > > > > production.
> > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our developers are
> > > facing,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this! For the issues
> > > > > > above,
> > > > > > > > > kindly
> > > > > > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org>]

The PR #4892 doesn't correct anything. It is retelling the same thing
in other words. The original statement is already correct.

And if you look at the history carefully, that contributor doesn't
have a good reputation to submit valuable PR. He didn't discuss what
he did in the community.

Anyway, we still merge some of his PR which brings real value.

Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:42写道：
>
> Hi,
>
> > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
>
> 1. This feedback comes from attendees, they don't mention Apache APISIX has
> these cases, so I use "some communities" here;
> 2. I just checked history PRs from here[1], and found some closed PRs which
> are related to Documentations. I reviewed changes and comments, emmm, I
> agree to close some of them due to unnecessary changes or reasonable
> feedbacks, but here are still have some PRs that we could have a discussion
> about, I picked 3 cases from them.
>
> 2.1 In PR #4892, one of Douyu's contributors[3] wanted to update the Zipkin
> plugin's docs:
> 2.1.1 This PR updated doc's title from `Zipkin` to `zipkin`, because the
> author thought it's better to keep the same as other plugins' doc title;
> 2.1.2 This PR changed the description from "Zipkin is a OpenTracing plugin"
> to "zipkin is a plugin for [Zipkin](https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin),
> which is a distributed tracing system.";
> 2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :( I'm not familiar with
> OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the difference between them,
> so I search Google and here has a "VS" from StackShare[4], it seems that
> the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954)
> 2.1.4 Maybe this PR change was "trivial" as the comment says, but I have to
> say, everyone likes the correct documentation :) So one contributor wants
> to make our docs more correct and better, why not accept it? After
> consideration, though the ASF doesn't ask us to do this, I really hope our
> committers and PMCs[5] help our the most active reviewers to review PRs,
> bcoz everyone's energy is not unlimited, our community needs your help to
> grow and spread.
>
> 2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use Docusaurus's syntax
> to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's Docs website:
> 2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change will break the
> reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most developers, and we could do
> this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get that point or didn't
> notice/know the workflow IMO.
> 2.2.2 It seems that the reviewer is feeling bad about this kind of PRs, I
> totally can understand the feeling: No other reviewers, Duplicate PRs
> without discussions, and other things will affect our feeling. I will feel
> bad, too :(
> 2.2.3 We Apache APISIX is a long-term and powerful community like other
> awesome communities, I make sure we will face any kinds of issues like
> this, maybe we could be more friendly to our contributors? Community is
> grown with People, find our powerful users/contributors, get to know them
> :)
> 2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs can lead him to know
> what's a proper workflow to corporate with the community? It will take much
> time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our community grows as
> well :)
>
> 2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to Chinese.
> 2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not MUST-to-CHANGE,
> but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes, in my own
> opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate all
> English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more smoothly. His
> original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of change will
> increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members, right? I
> sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.
>
> 2.4 I don't mean that we rejected PRs, I only want to encourage our
> committers, PMCs to lead our contributors to grow and involve in our
> community.
>
>
> > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
>
> Yes, days ago I heard the same feedback from community members, they don't
> know how to take part in us and what they can do. We "think" they know, but
> actually not for some developers. It seems that there lacks a "Contribution
> Chain".
>
> I sincerely encourage all of us to take more attention to Developers,
> Codes, Documentations, and Ecosystems, to make our community much better!
>
> [1] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
> [2] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892/files
> [3] https://github.com/hnlq715
> [4] https://stackshare.io/stackups/opentracing-vs-zipkin
> [5] https://apisix.apache.org/team
> [6] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4477
> [7] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5592/files
>
> Best Regards!
> @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
>
>
> Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午9:16写道：
>
> > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> >
> > I don't think Apache APISIX has such problems. Are there specific issues
> > and PRs?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> > Twitter: _WenMing
> >
> >
> > Bozhong Yu <im...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午12:53写道：
> >
> > > > There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need to take
> > > care of or install
> > >
> > > That's right. Even if I follow the documentation and execute make deps, I
> > > still get errors. Maybe we can add more error handling:
> > >
> > >
> > https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation
> > >
> > > Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:12写道：
> > >
> > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > >
> > > > I think it's great.
> > > >
> > > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:04写道：
> > > >
> > > > > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but Test
> > > > > Nginx lacks docs either.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find the doc:
> > > > > https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
> > > > >
> > > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午10:44写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How about this title?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I thought developers could use video and docs to share how to
> > set
> > > > up
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how
> > > to
> > > > > > > debug
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more content like this.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午7:45写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal experience. it take my
> > > > most
> > > > > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to share how to
> > set
> > > > up
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first line of code,
> > how
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午4:26写道：
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users asked me
> > how
> > > to
> > > > > > > involve
> > > > > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the
> > information
> > > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20 developers joined
> > in
> > > > > and the
> > > > > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for newcomers.
> > > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX and its
> > > > products:
> > > > > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack tech
> > > details,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > developers need to read and debug from source codes;
> > > > > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and dependencies that
> > > need
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test
> > cases,
> > > > but
> > > > > Test
> > > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run test cases
> > > > > locally,
> > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of environmental issues.
> > > > > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about how to
> > > > corporate
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > others in the community, they need more courage and mentors.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`,
> > > > `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and only
> > > > > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and frequently,
> > attendees
> > > > > > > complained
> > > > > > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include Production Best
> > > > > Practice
> > > > > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could easily
> > find
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a demo.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX Dashboard
> > is
> > > > > just a
> > > > > > > > demo,
> > > > > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We hope it's not
> > > only
> > > > > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use it in
> > > > > production.
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our developers are
> > facing,
> > > > but
> > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this! For the issues
> > > > > above,
> > > > > > > > kindly
> > > > > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org>]

Hi,

> 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;

1. This feedback comes from attendees, they don't mention Apache APISIX has
these cases, so I use "some communities" here;
2. I just checked history PRs from here[1], and found some closed PRs which
are related to Documentations. I reviewed changes and comments, emmm, I
agree to close some of them due to unnecessary changes or reasonable
feedbacks, but here are still have some PRs that we could have a discussion
about, I picked 3 cases from them.

2.1 In PR #4892, one of Douyu's contributors[3] wanted to update the Zipkin
plugin's docs:
2.1.1 This PR updated doc's title from `Zipkin` to `zipkin`, because the
author thought it's better to keep the same as other plugins' doc title;
2.1.2 This PR changed the description from "Zipkin is a OpenTracing plugin"
to "zipkin is a plugin for [Zipkin](https://github.com/openzipkin/zipkin),
which is a distributed tracing system.";
2.1.3 This PR gets a "Requested Changes" finally :( I'm not familiar with
OpenTracing and Zipkin for now, and cannot see the difference between them,
so I search Google and here has a "VS" from StackShare[4], it seems that
the PR's change is reasonable. (also could see #4954)
2.1.4 Maybe this PR change was "trivial" as the comment says, but I have to
say, everyone likes the correct documentation :) So one contributor wants
to make our docs more correct and better, why not accept it? After
consideration, though the ASF doesn't ask us to do this, I really hope our
committers and PMCs[5] help our the most active reviewers to review PRs,
bcoz everyone's energy is not unlimited, our community needs your help to
grow and spread.

2.2 In PR #4477, Ayush Das (from India) wanted to use Docusaurus's syntax
to have a better rendering effect on Apache APISIX's Docs website:
2.2.1 I agree with the reviewer's comment: this change will break the
reading experience by GitHub markdowns for most developers, and we could do
this after full discussions. But Ayush Das didn't get that point or didn't
notice/know the workflow IMO.
2.2.2 It seems that the reviewer is feeling bad about this kind of PRs, I
totally can understand the feeling: No other reviewers, Duplicate PRs
without discussions, and other things will affect our feeling. I will feel
bad, too :(
2.2.3 We Apache APISIX is a long-term and powerful community like other
awesome communities, I make sure we will face any kinds of issues like
this, maybe we could be more friendly to our contributors? Community is
grown with People, find our powerful users/contributors, get to know them
:)
2.2.4 Back to this issue, maybe our committers or PMCs can lead him to know
what's a proper workflow to corporate with the community? It will take much
time to lead our contributors, they grow, we grow, our community grows as
well :)

2.3 In PR #5592, Xunzhuo wanted to translate docs from English to Chinese.
2.3.1 From his changes, I also think those changes are not MUST-to-CHANGE,
but if we try to understand why he wanted to make those changes, in my own
opinion, I think he just only wanted to contribute, to translate all
English to Chinese to let more Chinese developers read more smoothly. His
original intention was good and active :) Though this kind of change will
increase the Reviewer's burden, we have 39 Apache APISIX members, right? I
sincerely hope we could take care of our community's activity.

2.4 I don't mean that we rejected PRs, I only want to encourage our
committers, PMCs to lead our contributors to grow and involve in our
community.


> 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;

Yes, days ago I heard the same feedback from community members, they don't
know how to take part in us and what they can do. We "think" they know, but
actually not for some developers. It seems that there lacks a "Contribution
Chain".

I sincerely encourage all of us to take more attention to Developers,
Codes, Documentations, and Ecosystems, to make our community much better!

[1] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed
[2] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4892/files
[3] https://github.com/hnlq715
[4] https://stackshare.io/stackups/opentracing-vs-zipkin
[5] https://apisix.apache.org/team
[6] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/4477
[7] https://github.com/apache/apisix/pull/5592/files

Best Regards!
@ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>


Ming Wen <we...@apache.org> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午9:16写道：

> > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
>
> I don't think Apache APISIX has such problems. Are there specific issues
> and PRs?
>
> Thanks,
> Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
> Twitter: _WenMing
>
>
> Bozhong Yu <im...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午12:53写道：
>
> > > There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need to take
> > care of or install
> >
> > That's right. Even if I follow the documentation and execute make deps, I
> > still get errors. Maybe we can add more error handling:
> >
> >
> https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation
> >
> > Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:12写道：
> >
> > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > >
> > > I think it's great.
> > >
> > > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:04写道：
> > >
> > > > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but Test
> > > > Nginx lacks docs either.
> > > >
> > > > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find the doc:
> > > > https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
> > > >
> > > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午10:44写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > > >
> > > > > How about this title?
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > I thought developers could use video and docs to share how to
> set
> > > up
> > > > a
> > > > > > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how
> > to
> > > > > > debug
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more content like this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午7:45写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal experience. it take my
> > > most
> > > > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to share how to
> set
> > > up
> > > > a
> > > > > > > development environment, how to write the first line of code,
> how
> > > to
> > > > > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午4:26写道：
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users asked me
> how
> > to
> > > > > > involve
> > > > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the
> information
> > > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20 developers joined
> in
> > > > and the
> > > > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for newcomers.
> > > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX and its
> > > products:
> > > > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack tech
> > details,
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > developers need to read and debug from source codes;
> > > > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and dependencies that
> > need
> > > > to
> > > > > > take
> > > > > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test
> cases,
> > > but
> > > > Test
> > > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run test cases
> > > > locally,
> > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of environmental issues.
> > > > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about how to
> > > corporate
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > others in the community, they need more courage and mentors.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`,
> > > `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and only
> > > > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and frequently,
> attendees
> > > > > > complained
> > > > > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include Production Best
> > > > Practice
> > > > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could easily
> find
> > > the
> > > > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a demo.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX Dashboard
> is
> > > > just a
> > > > > > > demo,
> > > > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We hope it's not
> > only
> > > > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use it in
> > > > production.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our developers are
> facing,
> > > but
> > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this! For the issues
> > > > above,
> > > > > > > kindly
> > > > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Ming Wen <we...@apache.org>]

> 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;

I don't think Apache APISIX has such problems. Are there specific issues
and PRs?

Thanks,
Ming Wen, Apache APISIX PMC Chair
Twitter: _WenMing


Bozhong Yu <im...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午12:53写道：

> > There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need to take
> care of or install
>
> That's right. Even if I follow the documentation and execute make deps, I
> still get errors. Maybe we can add more error handling:
>
> https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation
>
> Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:12写道：
>
> > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> >
> > I think it's great.
> >
> > Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:04写道：
> >
> > > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but Test
> > > Nginx lacks docs either.
> > >
> > > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find the doc:
> > > https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
> > >
> > > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午10:44写道：
> > > >
> > > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > > >
> > > > How about this title?
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > I thought developers could use video and docs to share how to set
> > up
> > > a
> > > > > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how
> to
> > > > > debug
> > > > >
> > > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more content like this.
> > > > >
> > > > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午7:45写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal experience. it take my
> > most
> > > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to share how to set
> > up
> > > a
> > > > > > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how
> > to
> > > > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午4:26写道：
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users asked me how
> to
> > > > > involve
> > > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the information
> > in
> > > the
> > > > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20 developers joined in
> > > and the
> > > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for newcomers.
> > > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX and its
> > products:
> > > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack tech
> details,
> > > and
> > > > > > > developers need to read and debug from source codes;
> > > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and dependencies that
> need
> > > to
> > > > > take
> > > > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases,
> > but
> > > Test
> > > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run test cases
> > > locally,
> > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of environmental issues.
> > > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about how to
> > corporate
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > others in the community, they need more courage and mentors.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`,
> > `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and only
> > > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and frequently, attendees
> > > > > complained
> > > > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include Production Best
> > > Practice
> > > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could easily find
> > the
> > > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a demo.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX Dashboard is
> > > just a
> > > > > > demo,
> > > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We hope it's not
> only
> > > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use it in
> > > production.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our developers are facing,
> > but
> > > > > it's
> > > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this! For the issues
> > > above,
> > > > > > kindly
> > > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > *MembPhis*
> > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > >
> >
>

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Bozhong Yu <im...@gmail.com>]

> There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need to take
care of or install

That's right. Even if I follow the documentation and execute make deps, I
still get errors. Maybe we can add more error handling:
https://apisix.apache.org/docs/apisix/FAQ/#why-does-the-make-deps-command-fail-in-source-installation

Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:12写道：

> > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
>
> I think it's great.
>
> Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:04写道：
>
> > > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but Test
> > Nginx lacks docs either.
> >
> > It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find the doc:
> > https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
> >
> > YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午10:44写道：
> > >
> > > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> > >
> > > How about this title?
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > I thought developers could use video and docs to share how to set
> up
> > a
> > > > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how to
> > > > debug
> > > >
> > > > I very much agree, looking forward to more content like this.
> > > >
> > > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午7:45写道：
> > > >
> > > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal experience. it take my
> most
> > > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to share how to set
> up
> > a
> > > > > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how
> to
> > > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > > > >
> > > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > > >
> > > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午4:26写道：
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users asked me how to
> > > > involve
> > > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the information
> in
> > the
> > > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20 developers joined in
> > and the
> > > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for newcomers.
> > > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX and its
> products:
> > > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack tech details,
> > and
> > > > > > developers need to read and debug from source codes;
> > > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need
> > to
> > > > take
> > > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases,
> but
> > Test
> > > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run test cases
> > locally,
> > > > > it's
> > > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of environmental issues.
> > > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about how to
> corporate
> > > > with
> > > > > > others in the community, they need more courage and mentors.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`,
> `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and only
> > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and frequently, attendees
> > > > complained
> > > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include Production Best
> > Practice
> > > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could easily find
> the
> > > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a demo.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX Dashboard is
> > just a
> > > > > demo,
> > > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We hope it's not only
> > > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use it in
> > production.
> > > > The
> > > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our developers are facing,
> but
> > > > it's
> > > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this! For the issues
> > above,
> > > > > kindly
> > > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > *MembPhis*
> > > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> >
>

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com>]

> Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin

I think it's great.

Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午11:04写道：

> > Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but Test
> Nginx lacks docs either.
>
> It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find the doc:
> https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.
>
> YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午10:44写道：
> >
> > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> >
> > How about this title?
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > I thought developers could use video and docs to share how to set up
> a
> > > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how to
> > > debug
> > >
> > > I very much agree, looking forward to more content like this.
> > >
> > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午7:45写道：
> > >
> > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal experience. it take my most
> > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > >
> > > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to share how to set up
> a
> > > > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how to
> > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > > >
> > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > >
> > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午4:26写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > >
> > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users asked me how to
> > > involve
> > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the information in
> the
> > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20 developers joined in
> and the
> > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for newcomers.
> > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX and its products:
> > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack tech details,
> and
> > > > > developers need to read and debug from source codes;
> > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need
> to
> > > take
> > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but
> Test
> > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run test cases
> locally,
> > > > it's
> > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of environmental issues.
> > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about how to corporate
> > > with
> > > > > others in the community, they need more courage and mentors.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`, `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and only
> `apache/apisix`
> > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and frequently, attendees
> > > complained
> > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include Production Best
> Practice
> > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could easily find the
> > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a demo.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX Dashboard is
> just a
> > > > demo,
> > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We hope it's not only
> > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use it in
> production.
> > > The
> > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our developers are facing, but
> > > it's
> > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this! For the issues
> above,
> > > > kindly
> > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > *MembPhis*
> > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
>

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Zexuan Luo <sp...@apache.org>]

> Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but Test
Nginx lacks docs either.

It's incorrect. They just don't know where to find the doc:
https://metacpan.org/pod/Test%3A%3ANginx%3A%3ASocket.

YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午10:44写道：
>
> Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
>
> How about this title?
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I thought developers could use video and docs to share how to set up a
> > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how to
> > debug
> >
> > I very much agree, looking forward to more content like this.
> >
> > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午7:45写道：
> >
> > > I used to write Java, and in my personal experience. it take my most
> > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > >
> > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to share how to set up a
> > > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how to
> > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > >
> > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > >
> > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午4:26写道：
> > > >
> > > > Hi, community members,
> > > >
> > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users asked me how to
> > involve
> > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the information in the
> > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20 developers joined in and the
> > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > >
> > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for newcomers.
> > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX and its products:
> > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack tech details, and
> > > > developers need to read and debug from source codes;
> > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need to
> > take
> > > > care of or install;
> > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but Test
> > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run test cases locally,
> > > it's
> > > > hard to pass all test cases because of environmental issues.
> > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about how to corporate
> > with
> > > > others in the community, they need more courage and mentors.
> > > >
> > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`, `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and only `apache/apisix`
> > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and frequently, attendees
> > complained
> > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include Production Best Practice
> > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could easily find the
> > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a demo.
> > > >
> > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX Dashboard is just a
> > > demo,
> > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We hope it's not only
> > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use it in production.
> > The
> > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our developers are facing, but
> > it's
> > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this! For the issues above,
> > > kindly
> > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards!
> > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> *MembPhis*
> My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org>]

> The title looks great, but how do we start?

We have much work to do for Apache APISIX, any thoughts on the attendees's
feedbacks?

Best Regards!
@ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>


yeliang wang <wa...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月25日周四 上午11:12写道：

> The title looks great, but how do we start?
>
> YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午10:44写道：
>
> > Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
> >
> > How about this title?
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > I thought developers could use video and docs to share how to set up
> a
> > > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how to
> > > debug
> > >
> > > I very much agree, looking forward to more content like this.
> > >
> > > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午7:45写道：
> > >
> > > > I used to write Java, and in my personal experience. it take my most
> > > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > > >
> > > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to share how to set up
> a
> > > > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how to
> > > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > > >
> > > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > > >
> > > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午4:26写道：
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi, community members,
> > > > >
> > > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users asked me how to
> > > involve
> > > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the information in
> > the
> > > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20 developers joined in and
> > the
> > > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for newcomers.
> > > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX and its products:
> > > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack tech details,
> and
> > > > > developers need to read and debug from source codes;
> > > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need
> to
> > > take
> > > > > care of or install;
> > > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but
> > Test
> > > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run test cases
> > locally,
> > > > it's
> > > > > hard to pass all test cases because of environmental issues.
> > > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about how to corporate
> > > with
> > > > > others in the community, they need more courage and mentors.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`, `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and only
> > `apache/apisix`
> > > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and frequently, attendees
> > > complained
> > > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include Production Best
> > Practice
> > > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could easily find the
> > > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a demo.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX Dashboard is
> just a
> > > > demo,
> > > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We hope it's not only
> > > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use it in
> production.
> > > The
> > > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our developers are facing, but
> > > it's
> > > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this! For the issues
> above,
> > > > kindly
> > > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards!
> > > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > *MembPhis*
> > My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> >
>

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[yeliang wang <wa...@gmail.com>]

The title looks great, but how do we start?

YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午10:44写道：

> Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin
>
> How about this title?
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I thought developers could use video and docs to share how to set up a
> > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how to
> > debug
> >
> > I very much agree, looking forward to more content like this.
> >
> > ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午7:45写道：
> >
> > > I used to write Java, and in my personal experience. it take my most
> > > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> > >
> > > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to share how to set up a
> > > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how to
> > > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> > >
> > > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> > >
> > > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午4:26写道：
> > > >
> > > > Hi, community members,
> > > >
> > > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users asked me how to
> > involve
> > > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the information in
> the
> > > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20 developers joined in and
> the
> > > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > > >
> > > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for newcomers.
> > > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX and its products:
> > > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack tech details, and
> > > > developers need to read and debug from source codes;
> > > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need to
> > take
> > > > care of or install;
> > > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but
> Test
> > > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run test cases
> locally,
> > > it's
> > > > hard to pass all test cases because of environmental issues.
> > > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about how to corporate
> > with
> > > > others in the community, they need more courage and mentors.
> > > >
> > > > 2. Documentation
> > > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`, `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and only
> `apache/apisix`
> > > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and frequently, attendees
> > complained
> > > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include Production Best
> Practice
> > > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could easily find the
> > > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a demo.
> > > >
> > > > 2.3 Products
> > > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX Dashboard is just a
> > > demo,
> > > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We hope it's not only
> > > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use it in production.
> > The
> > > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our developers are facing, but
> > it's
> > > > also a great feeling to hold events like this! For the issues above,
> > > kindly
> > > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards!
> > > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> *MembPhis*
> My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
> Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
>

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[YuanSheng Wang <me...@apache.org>]

Need an example: how to write my first APISIX plugin

How about this title?

On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I thought developers could use video and docs to share how to set up a
> development environment, how to write the first line of code, how to
> debug
>
> I very much agree, looking forward to more content like this.
>
> ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午7:45写道：
>
> > I used to write Java, and in my personal experience. it take my most
> > time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
> >
> > I thought developers could use vedio and docs to share how to set up a
> > development environment, how to write the first line of code, how to
> > debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
> >
> > *ZhengSong Tu*
> > My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> > Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
> >
> > Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午4:26写道：
> > >
> > > Hi, community members,
> > >
> > > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users asked me how to
> involve
> > > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the information in the
> > > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20 developers joined in and the
> > > webinar lasts 90min :)
> > >
> > > Here is the summary of this event:
> > > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for newcomers.
> > > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX and its products:
> > > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack tech details, and
> > > developers need to read and debug from source codes;
> > > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need to
> take
> > > care of or install;
> > > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but Test
> > > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run test cases locally,
> > it's
> > > hard to pass all test cases because of environmental issues.
> > > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about how to corporate
> with
> > > others in the community, they need more courage and mentors.
> > >
> > > 2. Documentation
> > > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`, `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and only `apache/apisix`
> > > repo's docs are maintained regularly and frequently, attendees
> complained
> > > about the Docs Quality.
> > > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include Production Best Practice
> > > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could easily find the
> > > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a demo.
> > >
> > > 2.3 Products
> > > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX Dashboard is just a
> > demo,
> > > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We hope it's not only
> > > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use it in production.
> The
> > > same as Ingress Controller.
> > >
> > > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our developers are facing, but
> it's
> > > also a great feeling to hold events like this! For the issues above,
> > kindly
> > > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> > >
> > > Best Regards!
> > > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
> >
>


-- 

*MembPhis*
My GitHub: https://github.com/membphis
Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[Baoyuan <ba...@gmail.com>]

> I thought developers could use video and docs to share how to set up a
development environment, how to write the first line of code, how to
debug

I very much agree, looking forward to more content like this.

ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午7:45写道：

> I used to write Java, and in my personal experience. it take my most
> time to learn APISIX and write plugins.
>
> I thought developers could use vedio and docs to share how to set up a
> development environment, how to write the first line of code, how to
> debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.
>
> *ZhengSong Tu*
> My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
> Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix
>
> Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午4:26写道：
> >
> > Hi, community members,
> >
> > Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users asked me how to involve
> > in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the information in the
> > WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20 developers joined in and the
> > webinar lasts 90min :)
> >
> > Here is the summary of this event:
> > 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for newcomers.
> > 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> > 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> > 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX and its products:
> > 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack tech details, and
> > developers need to read and debug from source codes;
> > 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need to take
> > care of or install;
> > 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but Test
> > Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run test cases locally,
> it's
> > hard to pass all test cases because of environmental issues.
> > 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about how to corporate with
> > others in the community, they need more courage and mentors.
> >
> > 2. Documentation
> > 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`, `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> > `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and only `apache/apisix`
> > repo's docs are maintained regularly and frequently, attendees complained
> > about the Docs Quality.
> > 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include Production Best Practice
> > sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could easily find the
> > appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a demo.
> >
> > 2.3 Products
> > 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX Dashboard is just a
> demo,
> > and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We hope it's not only
> > out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use it in production. The
> > same as Ingress Controller.
> >
> > Yes, there have a lot of issues that our developers are facing, but it's
> > also a great feeling to hold events like this! For the issues above,
> kindly
> > share your ideas and thoughts :)
> >
> > Best Regards!
> > @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>
>

Re: Here are some feedbacks from our developers

[ZhengSong Tu <tz...@gmail.com>]

I used to write Java, and in my personal experience. it take my most
time to learn APISIX and write plugins.

I thought developers could use vedio and docs to share how to set up a
development environment, how to write the first line of code, how to
debug,  maybe this would be helpful for newbies.

*ZhengSong Tu*
My GitHub: https://github.com/tzssangglass
Apache APISIX: https://github.com/apache/apisix

Zhiyuan Ju <ju...@apache.org> 于2021年11月24日周三 下午4:26写道：
>
> Hi, community members,
>
> Yesterday, one of Apache APISIX's community users asked me how to involve
> in our community, so I hold a webinar and share the information in the
> WeChat Group (something like WhatsApp), 20 developers joined in and the
> webinar lasts 90min :)
>
> Here is the summary of this event:
> 1. Developer Experience is not good and smooth for newcomers.
> 1.1 Some communities will reject PRs that developers submit;
> 1.2 Users don't know what or how they can contribute;
> 1.3 There has a high bar to develop Apache APISIX and its products:
> 1.3.1 There have a lot of Documentations that lack tech details, and
> developers need to read and debug from source codes;
> 1.3.2 There have a lot of environments and dependencies that need to take
> care of or install;
> 1.3.3 Developers need to use Test Nginx to program test cases, but Test
> Nginx lacks docs either. Also, when developers run test cases locally, it's
> hard to pass all test cases because of environmental issues.
> 1.4 Chinese attendees often ask the workflow about how to corporate with
> others in the community, they need more courage and mentors.
>
> 2. Documentation
> 2.1 We have repos like `apache/apisix`, `apache/apisix-dashboard`,
> `apache/apisix-ingress-controller` and others, and only `apache/apisix`
> repo's docs are maintained regularly and frequently, attendees complained
> about the Docs Quality.
> 2.2 Attendees hope our projects could include Production Best Practice
> sections, when users use Apache APISIX, they could easily find the
> appropriate scenarios instead of just seeing a demo.
>
> 2.3 Products
> 2.3.1 Most attendees complain about Apache APISIX Dashboard is just a demo,
> and it lacks many scenario-based functions. We hope it's not only
> out-of-box but also reducing the difficulty to use it in production. The
> same as Ingress Controller.
>
> Yes, there have a lot of issues that our developers are facing, but it's
> also a great feeling to hold events like this! For the issues above, kindly
> share your ideas and thoughts :)
>
> Best Regards!
> @ Zhiyuan Ju <https://github.com/juzhiyuan>