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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by Sheng Yang <sh...@yasker.org> on 2013/02/05 22:44:42 UTC
[ANNOUNCE] cloudstack-dev mailing list has stripped "Reply-to" header
Hi all,
Based on the discussion in
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.cloudstack.devel/9216 ,
I've requested Infra team to disable the list from adding a reply-to
header pointing to the list, which means, from now on, every thread
you participated, would keep you in the thread, by sending mail to you
directly(when others are "replying all").
So there is one new rule need to be emphasized: Do remember to reply all.
I've updated the mailing list guide line to include:
<quote>
Always use "Reply to All", to keep everyone and mailing list in the
thread. Don't be afraid to make a correction if you used "Reply" to
single people involved by mistake.
</quote>
I hope this movement would make the communication more effective.
PS: you may want to update your mailing list filter, and set your mail
client's to "Reply All" by default.
--Sheng
Re: [ANNOUNCE] cloudstack-dev mailing list has stripped "Reply-to" header
Posted by Sheng Yang <sh...@yasker.org>.
Partly, and is better than none.
Anyway, it's the community and it's your choice. We can call a vote
again if you want.
--Sheng
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Alex Huang <Al...@citrix.com> wrote:
> The current behavior is not the one I've signed up for. Maybe I misunderstood what was being said myself. I agree with Brett. I thought the idea was people can cc people directly if they know who they want to get the attention of but the mailing list is still the reply-to address. You are still responsible for the topics and tags you're interested in.
> This convention would have made it easier to filter tags and for any mail that cced you to a folder. The recipient should still scan mail subjects without tags occasionally but they don't have to worry about missing emails because they know full well that if something needs your attention the sender would have cced you.
>
> As the way this is implemented, if you and brett replied to an email separately and I replied to your email, Brett is not included anyways so again it loses any type of advantage you think this implementation gains.
>
> --Alex
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sheng Yang [mailto:sheng@yasker.org]
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 3:06 PM
>> To: Brett Porter
>> Cc: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCE] cloudstack-dev mailing list has stripped "Reply-to"
>> header
>>
>> Hi Brett,
>>
>> The "reply-to" header is exactly what bothering us. It make us go
>> through every thread to check if it's the one we've involved or not.
>>
>> And, people would able to update their mail client filter to the get
>> the result they want when we're using current policy, but they can't
>> get the mail they involved when we enforce "reploy-to" policy.
>>
>> I know it's an enforcement for new member reply in the public, but I
>> believe it's better(and not that hard) to be spontaneously.
>>
>> --Sheng
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I hate jumping in after the fact, but I wanted to check if that was the result
>> everyone was expecting? What I understood from the previous thread was
>> that the community would build up a convention of CCing people to get their
>> attention, not that the default reply-to would be changed.
>> >
>> > I'm confused by the claim that the list stripped To/CC, as I can see examples
>> where they were retained when used [1] [2]. When I reply-to-all on those
>> messages, they are also retained as CCs. Is that not what you were seeing?
>> >
>> > The thing that wasn't retained was a CC of the sender if you reply-to-all,
>> but a better alternative to that would be for people wishing to have that
>> behaviour to CC themselves on mails they send to the list. I know at least one
>> person said they didn't want to be CC'd on list mails, and they could then
>> choose whether or not that happens.
>> >
>> > The reason reply-to the list is the default is so that the default mode of
>> operation is communicating with the entire community publicly. It is probably
>> most helpful to newer members of the list that aren't yet familiar with the
>> conventions. This change will particularly trip up those that are new to the list,
>> but familiar with other ASF lists where reply-to is predominantly set. If you
>> intend to continue with the change, you may want to consider adding a
>> message trailer that reminds readers of the difference, and points them to
>> the mailing list guidelines.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Brett
>> >
>> > [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-cloudstack-
>> dev/201302.mbox/raw/%3CCA+96GG4YVnrYBjMy4yRQwtpqZLKLYeb39n1kq
>> WCf06Yswx_23w@mail.gmail.com%3E
>> > [2] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-cloudstack-
>> dev/201302.mbox/raw/%3C20130205083909.GC5795@cloud-2.local%3E
>> >
>> > On 06/02/2013, at 8:44 AM, Sheng Yang <sh...@yasker.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> Based on the discussion in
>> >>
>> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.cloudstack.devel/9216 ,
>> >> I've requested Infra team to disable the list from adding a reply-to
>> >> header pointing to the list, which means, from now on, every thread
>> >> you participated, would keep you in the thread, by sending mail to you
>> >> directly(when others are "replying all").
>> >>
>> >> So there is one new rule need to be emphasized: Do remember to reply
>> all.
>> >>
>> >> I've updated the mailing list guide line to include:
>> >>
>> >> <quote>
>> >> Always use "Reply to All", to keep everyone and mailing list in the
>> >> thread. Don't be afraid to make a correction if you used "Reply" to
>> >> single people involved by mistake.
>> >> </quote>
>> >>
>> >> I hope this movement would make the communication more effective.
>> >>
>> >> PS: you may want to update your mailing list filter, and set your mail
>> >> client's to "Reply All" by default.
>> >>
>> >> --Sheng
>> >
>> > --
>> > Brett Porter
>> > brett@apache.org
>> > http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
>> > http://au.linkedin.com/in/brettporter
>> > http://twitter.com/brettporter
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
RE: [ANNOUNCE] cloudstack-dev mailing list has stripped "Reply-to"
header
Posted by Animesh Chaturvedi <an...@citrix.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Huang [mailto:Alex.Huang@citrix.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:13 PM
> To: Sheng Yang; Brett Porter
> Cc: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: [ANNOUNCE] cloudstack-dev mailing list has stripped "Reply-to"
> header
>
> The current behavior is not the one I've signed up for. Maybe I misunderstood
> what was being said myself. I agree with Brett. I thought the idea was people
> can cc people directly if they know who they want to get the attention of but
> the mailing list is still the reply-to address. You are still responsible for the
> topics and tags you're interested in.
> This convention would have made it easier to filter tags and for any mail that
> cced you to a folder. The recipient should still scan mail subjects without tags
> occasionally but they don't have to worry about missing emails because they
> know full well that if something needs your attention the sender would have
> cced you.
>
> As the way this is implemented, if you and brett replied to an email separately
> and I replied to your email, Brett is not included anyways so again it loses any
> type of advantage you think this implementation gains.
>
> --Alex
[Animesh>] I was also under the impression that there is no change to default reply to mailing list and we are just agreeing to cc
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sheng Yang [mailto:sheng@yasker.org]
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 3:06 PM
> > To: Brett Porter
> > Cc: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCE] cloudstack-dev mailing list has stripped "Reply-to"
> > header
> >
> > Hi Brett,
> >
> > The "reply-to" header is exactly what bothering us. It make us go
> > through every thread to check if it's the one we've involved or not.
> >
> > And, people would able to update their mail client filter to the get
> > the result they want when we're using current policy, but they can't
> > get the mail they involved when we enforce "reploy-to" policy.
> >
> > I know it's an enforcement for new member reply in the public, but I
> > believe it's better(and not that hard) to be spontaneously.
> >
> > --Sheng
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I hate jumping in after the fact, but I wanted to check if that was
> > > the result
> > everyone was expecting? What I understood from the previous thread was
> > that the community would build up a convention of CCing people to get
> > their attention, not that the default reply-to would be changed.
> > >
> > > I'm confused by the claim that the list stripped To/CC, as I can see
> > > examples
> > where they were retained when used [1] [2]. When I reply-to-all on
> > those messages, they are also retained as CCs. Is that not what you were
> seeing?
> > >
> > > The thing that wasn't retained was a CC of the sender if you
> > > reply-to-all,
> > but a better alternative to that would be for people wishing to have
> > that behaviour to CC themselves on mails they send to the list. I know
> > at least one person said they didn't want to be CC'd on list mails,
> > and they could then choose whether or not that happens.
> > >
> > > The reason reply-to the list is the default is so that the default
> > > mode of
> > operation is communicating with the entire community publicly. It is
> > probably most helpful to newer members of the list that aren't yet
> > familiar with the conventions. This change will particularly trip up
> > those that are new to the list, but familiar with other ASF lists
> > where reply-to is predominantly set. If you intend to continue with
> > the change, you may want to consider adding a message trailer that
> > reminds readers of the difference, and points them to the mailing list
> guidelines.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Brett
> > >
> > > [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-cloudstack-
> > dev/201302.mbox/raw/%3CCA+96GG4YVnrYBjMy4yRQwtpqZLKLYeb39n1kq
> > WCf06Yswx_23w@mail.gmail.com%3E
> > > [2] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-cloudstack-
> > dev/201302.mbox/raw/%3C20130205083909.GC5795@cloud-2.local%3E
> > >
> > > On 06/02/2013, at 8:44 AM, Sheng Yang <sh...@yasker.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi all,
> > >>
> > >> Based on the discussion in
> > >>
> > http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.cloudstack.devel/9216 ,
> > >> I've requested Infra team to disable the list from adding a
> > >> reply-to header pointing to the list, which means, from now on,
> > >> every thread you participated, would keep you in the thread, by
> > >> sending mail to you directly(when others are "replying all").
> > >>
> > >> So there is one new rule need to be emphasized: Do remember to
> > >> reply
> > all.
> > >>
> > >> I've updated the mailing list guide line to include:
> > >>
> > >> <quote>
> > >> Always use "Reply to All", to keep everyone and mailing list in the
> > >> thread. Don't be afraid to make a correction if you used "Reply" to
> > >> single people involved by mistake.
> > >> </quote>
> > >>
> > >> I hope this movement would make the communication more effective.
> > >>
> > >> PS: you may want to update your mailing list filter, and set your
> > >> mail client's to "Reply All" by default.
> > >>
> > >> --Sheng
> > >
> > > --
> > > Brett Porter
> > > brett@apache.org
> > > http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
> > > http://au.linkedin.com/in/brettporter
> > > http://twitter.com/brettporter
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
RE: [ANNOUNCE] cloudstack-dev mailing list has stripped "Reply-to"
header
Posted by Alex Huang <Al...@citrix.com>.
The current behavior is not the one I've signed up for. Maybe I misunderstood what was being said myself. I agree with Brett. I thought the idea was people can cc people directly if they know who they want to get the attention of but the mailing list is still the reply-to address. You are still responsible for the topics and tags you're interested in.
This convention would have made it easier to filter tags and for any mail that cced you to a folder. The recipient should still scan mail subjects without tags occasionally but they don't have to worry about missing emails because they know full well that if something needs your attention the sender would have cced you.
As the way this is implemented, if you and brett replied to an email separately and I replied to your email, Brett is not included anyways so again it loses any type of advantage you think this implementation gains.
--Alex
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sheng Yang [mailto:sheng@yasker.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 3:06 PM
> To: Brett Porter
> Cc: cloudstack-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCE] cloudstack-dev mailing list has stripped "Reply-to"
> header
>
> Hi Brett,
>
> The "reply-to" header is exactly what bothering us. It make us go
> through every thread to check if it's the one we've involved or not.
>
> And, people would able to update their mail client filter to the get
> the result they want when we're using current policy, but they can't
> get the mail they involved when we enforce "reploy-to" policy.
>
> I know it's an enforcement for new member reply in the public, but I
> believe it's better(and not that hard) to be spontaneously.
>
> --Sheng
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I hate jumping in after the fact, but I wanted to check if that was the result
> everyone was expecting? What I understood from the previous thread was
> that the community would build up a convention of CCing people to get their
> attention, not that the default reply-to would be changed.
> >
> > I'm confused by the claim that the list stripped To/CC, as I can see examples
> where they were retained when used [1] [2]. When I reply-to-all on those
> messages, they are also retained as CCs. Is that not what you were seeing?
> >
> > The thing that wasn't retained was a CC of the sender if you reply-to-all,
> but a better alternative to that would be for people wishing to have that
> behaviour to CC themselves on mails they send to the list. I know at least one
> person said they didn't want to be CC'd on list mails, and they could then
> choose whether or not that happens.
> >
> > The reason reply-to the list is the default is so that the default mode of
> operation is communicating with the entire community publicly. It is probably
> most helpful to newer members of the list that aren't yet familiar with the
> conventions. This change will particularly trip up those that are new to the list,
> but familiar with other ASF lists where reply-to is predominantly set. If you
> intend to continue with the change, you may want to consider adding a
> message trailer that reminds readers of the difference, and points them to
> the mailing list guidelines.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Brett
> >
> > [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-cloudstack-
> dev/201302.mbox/raw/%3CCA+96GG4YVnrYBjMy4yRQwtpqZLKLYeb39n1kq
> WCf06Yswx_23w@mail.gmail.com%3E
> > [2] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-cloudstack-
> dev/201302.mbox/raw/%3C20130205083909.GC5795@cloud-2.local%3E
> >
> > On 06/02/2013, at 8:44 AM, Sheng Yang <sh...@yasker.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Based on the discussion in
> >>
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.cloudstack.devel/9216 ,
> >> I've requested Infra team to disable the list from adding a reply-to
> >> header pointing to the list, which means, from now on, every thread
> >> you participated, would keep you in the thread, by sending mail to you
> >> directly(when others are "replying all").
> >>
> >> So there is one new rule need to be emphasized: Do remember to reply
> all.
> >>
> >> I've updated the mailing list guide line to include:
> >>
> >> <quote>
> >> Always use "Reply to All", to keep everyone and mailing list in the
> >> thread. Don't be afraid to make a correction if you used "Reply" to
> >> single people involved by mistake.
> >> </quote>
> >>
> >> I hope this movement would make the communication more effective.
> >>
> >> PS: you may want to update your mailing list filter, and set your mail
> >> client's to "Reply All" by default.
> >>
> >> --Sheng
> >
> > --
> > Brett Porter
> > brett@apache.org
> > http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
> > http://au.linkedin.com/in/brettporter
> > http://twitter.com/brettporter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Re: [ANNOUNCE] cloudstack-dev mailing list has stripped "Reply-to" header
Posted by Sheng Yang <sh...@yasker.org>.
Hi Brett,
The "reply-to" header is exactly what bothering us. It make us go
through every thread to check if it's the one we've involved or not.
And, people would able to update their mail client filter to the get
the result they want when we're using current policy, but they can't
get the mail they involved when we enforce "reploy-to" policy.
I know it's an enforcement for new member reply in the public, but I
believe it's better(and not that hard) to be spontaneously.
--Sheng
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Brett Porter <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I hate jumping in after the fact, but I wanted to check if that was the result everyone was expecting? What I understood from the previous thread was that the community would build up a convention of CCing people to get their attention, not that the default reply-to would be changed.
>
> I'm confused by the claim that the list stripped To/CC, as I can see examples where they were retained when used [1] [2]. When I reply-to-all on those messages, they are also retained as CCs. Is that not what you were seeing?
>
> The thing that wasn't retained was a CC of the sender if you reply-to-all, but a better alternative to that would be for people wishing to have that behaviour to CC themselves on mails they send to the list. I know at least one person said they didn't want to be CC'd on list mails, and they could then choose whether or not that happens.
>
> The reason reply-to the list is the default is so that the default mode of operation is communicating with the entire community publicly. It is probably most helpful to newer members of the list that aren't yet familiar with the conventions. This change will particularly trip up those that are new to the list, but familiar with other ASF lists where reply-to is predominantly set. If you intend to continue with the change, you may want to consider adding a message trailer that reminds readers of the difference, and points them to the mailing list guidelines.
>
> Cheers,
> Brett
>
> [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-cloudstack-dev/201302.mbox/raw/%3CCA+96GG4YVnrYBjMy4yRQwtpqZLKLYeb39n1kqWCf06Yswx_23w@mail.gmail.com%3E
> [2] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-cloudstack-dev/201302.mbox/raw/%3C20130205083909.GC5795@cloud-2.local%3E
>
> On 06/02/2013, at 8:44 AM, Sheng Yang <sh...@yasker.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Based on the discussion in
>> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.cloudstack.devel/9216 ,
>> I've requested Infra team to disable the list from adding a reply-to
>> header pointing to the list, which means, from now on, every thread
>> you participated, would keep you in the thread, by sending mail to you
>> directly(when others are "replying all").
>>
>> So there is one new rule need to be emphasized: Do remember to reply all.
>>
>> I've updated the mailing list guide line to include:
>>
>> <quote>
>> Always use "Reply to All", to keep everyone and mailing list in the
>> thread. Don't be afraid to make a correction if you used "Reply" to
>> single people involved by mistake.
>> </quote>
>>
>> I hope this movement would make the communication more effective.
>>
>> PS: you may want to update your mailing list filter, and set your mail
>> client's to "Reply All" by default.
>>
>> --Sheng
>
> --
> Brett Porter
> brett@apache.org
> http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
> http://au.linkedin.com/in/brettporter
> http://twitter.com/brettporter
>
>
>
>
>
Re: [ANNOUNCE] cloudstack-dev mailing list has stripped "Reply-to" header
Posted by Brett Porter <br...@apache.org>.
Hi,
I hate jumping in after the fact, but I wanted to check if that was the result everyone was expecting? What I understood from the previous thread was that the community would build up a convention of CCing people to get their attention, not that the default reply-to would be changed.
I'm confused by the claim that the list stripped To/CC, as I can see examples where they were retained when used [1] [2]. When I reply-to-all on those messages, they are also retained as CCs. Is that not what you were seeing?
The thing that wasn't retained was a CC of the sender if you reply-to-all, but a better alternative to that would be for people wishing to have that behaviour to CC themselves on mails they send to the list. I know at least one person said they didn't want to be CC'd on list mails, and they could then choose whether or not that happens.
The reason reply-to the list is the default is so that the default mode of operation is communicating with the entire community publicly. It is probably most helpful to newer members of the list that aren't yet familiar with the conventions. This change will particularly trip up those that are new to the list, but familiar with other ASF lists where reply-to is predominantly set. If you intend to continue with the change, you may want to consider adding a message trailer that reminds readers of the difference, and points them to the mailing list guidelines.
Cheers,
Brett
[1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-cloudstack-dev/201302.mbox/raw/%3CCA+96GG4YVnrYBjMy4yRQwtpqZLKLYeb39n1kqWCf06Yswx_23w@mail.gmail.com%3E
[2] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-cloudstack-dev/201302.mbox/raw/%3C20130205083909.GC5795@cloud-2.local%3E
On 06/02/2013, at 8:44 AM, Sheng Yang <sh...@yasker.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Based on the discussion in
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.apache.cloudstack.devel/9216 ,
> I've requested Infra team to disable the list from adding a reply-to
> header pointing to the list, which means, from now on, every thread
> you participated, would keep you in the thread, by sending mail to you
> directly(when others are "replying all").
>
> So there is one new rule need to be emphasized: Do remember to reply all.
>
> I've updated the mailing list guide line to include:
>
> <quote>
> Always use "Reply to All", to keep everyone and mailing list in the
> thread. Don't be afraid to make a correction if you used "Reply" to
> single people involved by mistake.
> </quote>
>
> I hope this movement would make the communication more effective.
>
> PS: you may want to update your mailing list filter, and set your mail
> client's to "Reply All" by default.
>
> --Sheng
--
Brett Porter
brett@apache.org
http://brettporter.wordpress.com/
http://au.linkedin.com/in/brettporter
http://twitter.com/brettporter