You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> on 2009/04/23 09:08:58 UTC
Legal Requirements for using Apache JIRA to track iCLAs
The current CLA submission process is described here:
http://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html#cla-registration
I'd like to make a suggestion that emails be sent to people to submitting
iCLAs so that they have idea of the status of their submission. I'd suggest
sending emails when an iCLA has been received, when it has been acknowledged
and finally when it has been registered.
This would improve the process and avoid emails in the podling mailing lists
asking about the status of individual iCLA submissions.
I've just submitted an iCLA via email and I have no way to check its status
besides looking at the Committers' page (
http://people.apache.org/~jim/committers.html) on a daily basis.
In a discussion on the general@incubator.apache.org, list Robert Burrell
Donkin suggested using Jira to keep track of the submissions.
I'd like to know about the legal requirements of using JIRA in this way. My
idea would be to scan in the faxed and mailed iCLAs, create a JIRA item and
mail the link to submitter. Of course, scanning in the documents would
require more effort but in the long term would probably lead to more
effeciency and faster turn-arounds.
D.
Re: Legal Requirements for using Apache JIRA to track iCLAs
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 23/04/2009, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 6:46 AM, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I'd like to make a suggestion that emails be sent to people to submitting
> >> iCLAs so that they have idea of the status of their submission. I'd suggest
> >> sending emails when an iCLA has been received, when it has been acknowledged
> >> and finally when it has been registered.
> >
> > I think this is largely a 'lack of resources' situation. I have seen
> > the secretary being experimenting with more automated processes, and
> > if that materializes I would guess that mail notifications would come
> > out of it.
>
>
> At the moment, we have paid staff which handles this. What we will be
> experimenting with, over the course of the next month, is whether this
> can be better (or even adequately) handled by volunteers. Depending
> on the outcome of that experiment, we may revert to the previous
> approach, transform radically the definition of the task, or continue
> entirely with volunteers. (Note: the previous list of options is
> decidedly *not* ordered).
>
> What's being automated at the moment is a very modest part of this:
> detaching attachments as they are being received (either from eFax or
> email) and committing them to a "received" area of our private SVN.
>
> At that point, all officers of the foundation will have access to this
s/all officers/all officers and members/ ?
> data, and the task for any one document is very straightforward:
> moving the document itself to the appropriate entry and enter a single
> line in a simple text file. That data includes an email address. It
> is possible that PMC chairs will be interested in helping out here,
> out of enlightened self interest.
The PMC chair is also more likely to be able to decipher hard-to-read
entries, as they should already know the person's correct name and
e-mail address. In extremis, I guess that they could even ask for a
replacement ICLA to be sent.
> It is possible that a set of
> volunteers will emerge. It is possible that I will do it myself.
> That's the subject of next month's experiment.
>
> Some of the people who do this may very well send an email. If,
> instead, we wanted to automate this, Jim's script(*) which publishes
> that web page could be updated to also send an email.
>
> Whether that is done or not, the experiment next month will introduce
> one significant change. At the moment, if you send a fax or an email,
> the expectation is that such will be processed in batches two or three
> times a week, so a delay of a couple days is not uncommon. In its
> place will be a process by which -- at the very least -- the PMC chair
> will have access to this file within an hour, and can elect to process
> it immediately. I don't know if that will eliminate the desire for an
> email, but certainly will have the potential to distribute the
> workload and provide an opportunity for more immediate feedback.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
> (*) I've lost track where it currently resides, but some amusing
> history of this can be found here:
> <http://intertwingly.net/blog/2002/12/04/Making-Decisions-Online>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: Legal Requirements for using Apache JIRA to track iCLAs
Posted by Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>.
This might actually be a very good start. Those submitting iCLAs primarily
want to know that they have been received and are being processed.
D.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-04-23 at 07:41 -0400, Sam Ruby wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 6:46 AM, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>
> wrote:
> > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I'd like to make a suggestion that emails be sent to people to
> submitting
> > >> iCLAs so that they have idea of the status of their submission. I'd
> suggest
> > >> sending emails when an iCLA has been received, when it has been
> acknowledged
> > >> and finally when it has been registered.
> > >
> > > I think this is largely a 'lack of resources' situation. I have seen
> > > the secretary being experimenting with more automated processes, and
> > > if that materializes I would guess that mail notifications would come
> > > out of it.
> >
> > At the moment, we have paid staff which handles this. What we will be
> > experimenting with, over the course of the next month, is whether this
> > can be better (or even adequately) handled by volunteers. Depending
> > on the outcome of that experiment, we may revert to the previous
> > approach, transform radically the definition of the task, or continue
> > entirely with volunteers. (Note: the previous list of options is
> > decidedly *not* ordered).
> >
> > What's being automated at the moment is a very modest part of this:
> > detaching attachments as they are being received (either from eFax or
> > email) and committing them to a "received" area of our private SVN.
> >
> > At that point, all officers of the foundation will have access to this
> > data, and the task for any one document is very straightforward:
> > moving the document itself to the appropriate entry and enter a single
> > line in a simple text file. That data includes an email address. It
> > is possible that PMC chairs will be interested in helping out here,
> > out of enlightened self interest. It is possible that a set of
> > volunteers will emerge. It is possible that I will do it myself.
> > That's the subject of next month's experiment.
> >
> > Some of the people who do this may very well send an email. If,
> > instead, we wanted to automate this, Jim's script(*) which publishes
> > that web page could be updated to also send an email.
> >
> > Whether that is done or not, the experiment next month will introduce
> > one significant change. At the moment, if you send a fax or an email,
> > the expectation is that such will be processed in batches two or three
> > times a week, so a delay of a couple days is not uncommon. In its
> > place will be a process by which -- at the very least -- the PMC chair
> > will have access to this file within an hour, and can elect to process
> > it immediately. I don't know if that will eliminate the desire for an
> > email, but certainly will have the potential to distribute the
> > workload and provide an opportunity for more immediate feedback.
>
> Would it not be possible to add a little code to your script that simply
> replies to any emails saying "your email has been received and is
> available for processing by your PMC Chair" once the SVN commit has
> happened?
>
> That way, the sender knows "something" has happened, has got valuable
> feedback, and can play their part in making sure the ecosystem that you
> want to work actually does do. They are, of course, the person most
> interested in having this system work effectively and quickly.
>
> Upayavira
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>
Re: Legal Requirements for using Apache JIRA to track iCLAs
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>.
On Thu, 2009-04-23 at 07:41 -0400, Sam Ruby wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 6:46 AM, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I'd like to make a suggestion that emails be sent to people to submitting
> >> iCLAs so that they have idea of the status of their submission. I'd suggest
> >> sending emails when an iCLA has been received, when it has been acknowledged
> >> and finally when it has been registered.
> >
> > I think this is largely a 'lack of resources' situation. I have seen
> > the secretary being experimenting with more automated processes, and
> > if that materializes I would guess that mail notifications would come
> > out of it.
>
> At the moment, we have paid staff which handles this. What we will be
> experimenting with, over the course of the next month, is whether this
> can be better (or even adequately) handled by volunteers. Depending
> on the outcome of that experiment, we may revert to the previous
> approach, transform radically the definition of the task, or continue
> entirely with volunteers. (Note: the previous list of options is
> decidedly *not* ordered).
>
> What's being automated at the moment is a very modest part of this:
> detaching attachments as they are being received (either from eFax or
> email) and committing them to a "received" area of our private SVN.
>
> At that point, all officers of the foundation will have access to this
> data, and the task for any one document is very straightforward:
> moving the document itself to the appropriate entry and enter a single
> line in a simple text file. That data includes an email address. It
> is possible that PMC chairs will be interested in helping out here,
> out of enlightened self interest. It is possible that a set of
> volunteers will emerge. It is possible that I will do it myself.
> That's the subject of next month's experiment.
>
> Some of the people who do this may very well send an email. If,
> instead, we wanted to automate this, Jim's script(*) which publishes
> that web page could be updated to also send an email.
>
> Whether that is done or not, the experiment next month will introduce
> one significant change. At the moment, if you send a fax or an email,
> the expectation is that such will be processed in batches two or three
> times a week, so a delay of a couple days is not uncommon. In its
> place will be a process by which -- at the very least -- the PMC chair
> will have access to this file within an hour, and can elect to process
> it immediately. I don't know if that will eliminate the desire for an
> email, but certainly will have the potential to distribute the
> workload and provide an opportunity for more immediate feedback.
Would it not be possible to add a little code to your script that simply
replies to any emails saying "your email has been received and is
available for processing by your PMC Chair" once the SVN commit has
happened?
That way, the sender knows "something" has happened, has got valuable
feedback, and can play their part in making sure the ecosystem that you
want to work actually does do. They are, of course, the person most
interested in having this system work effectively and quickly.
Upayavira
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: Legal Requirements for using Apache JIRA to track iCLAs
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 6:46 AM, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'd like to make a suggestion that emails be sent to people to submitting
>> iCLAs so that they have idea of the status of their submission. I'd suggest
>> sending emails when an iCLA has been received, when it has been acknowledged
>> and finally when it has been registered.
>
> I think this is largely a 'lack of resources' situation. I have seen
> the secretary being experimenting with more automated processes, and
> if that materializes I would guess that mail notifications would come
> out of it.
At the moment, we have paid staff which handles this. What we will be
experimenting with, over the course of the next month, is whether this
can be better (or even adequately) handled by volunteers. Depending
on the outcome of that experiment, we may revert to the previous
approach, transform radically the definition of the task, or continue
entirely with volunteers. (Note: the previous list of options is
decidedly *not* ordered).
What's being automated at the moment is a very modest part of this:
detaching attachments as they are being received (either from eFax or
email) and committing them to a "received" area of our private SVN.
At that point, all officers of the foundation will have access to this
data, and the task for any one document is very straightforward:
moving the document itself to the appropriate entry and enter a single
line in a simple text file. That data includes an email address. It
is possible that PMC chairs will be interested in helping out here,
out of enlightened self interest. It is possible that a set of
volunteers will emerge. It is possible that I will do it myself.
That's the subject of next month's experiment.
Some of the people who do this may very well send an email. If,
instead, we wanted to automate this, Jim's script(*) which publishes
that web page could be updated to also send an email.
Whether that is done or not, the experiment next month will introduce
one significant change. At the moment, if you send a fax or an email,
the expectation is that such will be processed in batches two or three
times a week, so a delay of a couple days is not uncommon. In its
place will be a process by which -- at the very least -- the PMC chair
will have access to this file within an hour, and can elect to process
it immediately. I don't know if that will eliminate the desire for an
email, but certainly will have the potential to distribute the
workload and provide an opportunity for more immediate feedback.
- Sam Ruby
(*) I've lost track where it currently resides, but some amusing
history of this can be found here:
<http://intertwingly.net/blog/2002/12/04/Making-Decisions-Online>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: Legal Requirements for using Apache JIRA to track iCLAs
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 23/04/2009, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'd like to make a suggestion that emails be sent to people to submitting
> > iCLAs so that they have idea of the status of their submission. I'd suggest
> > sending emails when an iCLA has been received, when it has been acknowledged
> > and finally when it has been registered.
>
>
> I think this is largely a 'lack of resources' situation. I have seen
> the secretary being experimenting with more automated processes, and
> if that materializes I would guess that mail notifications would come
> out of it. At the moment, there seems to be a huge backlog of
> digitizing the previous paper copies, and that also adds to the
> overall burden I would assume.
>
> Regarding 'scan to JIRA' suggestion; Fyi, the ASF nowadays accepts
> digitally signed (if verifiable) CLAs sent in by mail. Not many people
> choose this option, typically due to lacking signing certificates.
> I am not sure what you are suggesting. Is the CLA submitter going to
> scan, or is the Secretary going to publish the scans to Jira? The
> latter sounds like an additional overhead. Solutions that are not
> automated are generally not considered, and suggested automation of
> procedure should come with the tools needed to make it happen for
> instance success.
>
> Your Mentors have access to the files where the CLAs get registered.
> The name of the submitter is in the filename, so someone could
> actually create a cron job to publish those over, for instance, and
> RSS/Atom feed. Care to do the work?
>
Note that the ICLA files are added to SVN which generates a message to
the "foundation-cvs" mailing list, and an entry is made in the
iclas.txt file which generates a message to the "board-cvs" mailing
list. Both of these are available to members.
> Cheers
> --
> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
>
> I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
> I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
> I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: Legal Requirements for using Apache JIRA to track iCLAs
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 23/04/2009, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Since I don't know many iCLAs are submitted on a daily / weekly basis, the
> ratio of iCLAs submitted via email vs. fax vs paper or the effort needed to
> automate the process, it is tough for me to estimate whether automation of
> the process would be worthwhile or when the "ROI" would be.
>
> For those already submitting their scanned iCLAs via email (as I did), I'm
> assuming that it wouldn't make a difference in effort if I submitted via
> JIRA or email.
I think it might at present, as JIRA is probably an unfamiliar tool to
the current assistant secretary. Also it may be harder to automate
extraction of attachments.
If using JIRA, this would need to be set up so that the attachments
were not publicly visible, as ICLAs contain personal information.
> D.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
>
> > I have since caught up with the Incubator posts;
> >
> > So, Are you suggesting that the submitter scans the signed paper
> > document himself, and uploads to Jira, which in turn notifies the
> > Secretary and asking for the Secretary to update the Jira upon
> > processing?
> >
> > Legally, I can't see why that would not be on par with the current
> > system of an external fax service forwarding the signed paper, but
> > IANAL.
> >
> > But, I doubt that the Secretary (or his right arm - Sebb) is
> > interested in additional work. Sebb, do you see any benefit?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > --
> > Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> > http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
> >
> > I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
> > I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
> > I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: Legal Requirements for using Apache JIRA to track iCLAs
Posted by Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>.
Since I don't know many iCLAs are submitted on a daily / weekly basis, the
ratio of iCLAs submitted via email vs. fax vs paper or the effort needed to
automate the process, it is tough for me to estimate whether automation of
the process would be worthwhile or when the "ROI" would be.
For those already submitting their scanned iCLAs via email (as I did), I'm
assuming that it wouldn't make a difference in effort if I submitted via
JIRA or email.
D.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> I have since caught up with the Incubator posts;
>
> So, Are you suggesting that the submitter scans the signed paper
> document himself, and uploads to Jira, which in turn notifies the
> Secretary and asking for the Secretary to update the Jira upon
> processing?
>
> Legally, I can't see why that would not be on par with the current
> system of an external fax service forwarding the signed paper, but
> IANAL.
>
> But, I doubt that the Secretary (or his right arm - Sebb) is
> interested in additional work. Sebb, do you see any benefit?
>
>
> Cheers
> --
> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
>
> I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
> I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
> I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>
Re: Legal Requirements for using Apache JIRA to track iCLAs
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
I have since caught up with the Incubator posts;
So, Are you suggesting that the submitter scans the signed paper
document himself, and uploads to Jira, which in turn notifies the
Secretary and asking for the Secretary to update the Jira upon
processing?
Legally, I can't see why that would not be on par with the current
system of an external fax service forwarding the signed paper, but
IANAL.
But, I doubt that the Secretary (or his right arm - Sebb) is
interested in additional work. Sebb, do you see any benefit?
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: Legal Requirements for using Apache JIRA to track iCLAs
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd like to make a suggestion that emails be sent to people to submitting
> iCLAs so that they have idea of the status of their submission. I'd suggest
> sending emails when an iCLA has been received, when it has been acknowledged
> and finally when it has been registered.
I think this is largely a 'lack of resources' situation. I have seen
the secretary being experimenting with more automated processes, and
if that materializes I would guess that mail notifications would come
out of it. At the moment, there seems to be a huge backlog of
digitizing the previous paper copies, and that also adds to the
overall burden I would assume.
Regarding 'scan to JIRA' suggestion; Fyi, the ASF nowadays accepts
digitally signed (if verifiable) CLAs sent in by mail. Not many people
choose this option, typically due to lacking signing certificates.
I am not sure what you are suggesting. Is the CLA submitter going to
scan, or is the Secretary going to publish the scans to Jira? The
latter sounds like an additional overhead. Solutions that are not
automated are generally not considered, and suggested automation of
procedure should come with the tools needed to make it happen for
instance success.
Your Mentors have access to the files where the CLAs get registered.
The name of the submitter is in the filename, so someone could
actually create a cron job to publish those over, for instance, and
RSS/Atom feed. Care to do the work?
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org