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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu> on 2003/11/09 23:07:16 UTC
Re: math to apache commons was Re: [all] Separate email list for
math development?
Darn it, I just got done making all those little edits to hrefs and the
bugzilla! ;-)
1.) Plausible, I understand though that Apache Commons is under
subversion, will this be a challenge to migrate to?
2.) How will we relate to Jakarta Commons? certainly we may have
dependencies on parts of the commons, but doesn't this leave little room
for jakarta commons components to utilize math as a dependency as they
are generally expected to be dependent on only other jakarta commons
projects.
-Mark
Tim O'Brien wrote:
> On Sun, 2003-11-09 at 14:24, robert burrell donkin wrote:
> <snip/>
>
>>so - is there a positive alternative? i'd like to propose that
>>common-maths continues to be affiliated with jakarta-commons but
>>becomes managed by apache commons.
>>
>
>
> +1, I think that now is the right time to move commons math to
> Apache Commons.
>
>
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--
Mark Diggory
Software Developer
Harvard MIT Data Center
http://www.hmdc.harvard.edu
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Re: math to apache commons was Re: [all] Separate email list for
math development?
Posted by Rodney Waldhoff <rw...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 9 Nov 2003, robert burrell donkin wrote:
> commons-maths will still be part of jakarta-commons :)
>
> it'll only be managed by the apache-commons pmc.
Which will make it in no way a "part" of jakarta-commons. "Related to" or
"linked from" perhaps, but not strictly "a part of" in any meaningful way.
>
> best of both worlds :)
>
> - robert
- Rod <http://radio.weblogs.com/0122027/>
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Re: math to apache commons was Re: [all] Separate email list for
math development?
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Henri Yandell wrote:
>
>>>2.) How will we relate to Jakarta Commons? certainly we may have
>>>dependencies on parts of the commons, but doesn't this leave little
>>>room for jakarta commons components to utilize math as a dependency as
>>>they are generally expected to be dependent on only other jakarta
>>>commons projects.
>>
>>commons-maths will still be part of jakarta-commons :)
>>
>>it'll only be managed by the apache-commons pmc.
>
>
> I'm with Rod here. It won't be a part of jakarta-commons, though it should
> still be some kind of link on the Jakarta site. Jakarta Commons ought to
> have a vote to add dependency on Apache Commons Java projects as an
> acceptable concpet.
>
> This does raise a question in the PMC-setup for the ASF. If a project is
> meant to be a part of Jakarta and another project, ie) Commons, must there
> be a 1 to 1 mapping on the PMCs.
>
> Hen
>
Another issue to consider between the two groups is the java package
namespace:
org.apache.commons...
--
Mark Diggory
Software Developer
Harvard MIT Data Center
http://www.hmdc.harvard.edu
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Re: math to apache commons was Re: [all] Separate email list for math development?
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On 11 Nov 2003, at 12:38, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> On Sunday, November 9, 2003, at 10:52 PM, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
>
>> Regarding separate DEV list -- as I said in my earlier comments,
>> that's totally
>> up to the MATH developers if they want it or not. The fact that it
>> might make
>> my life easier certainly isn't binding. Note also that the
>> httpclient guys
>> were not pushed out; they deliberately chose to have a separate DEV
>> list.
>> That's the way it should work -- being up to the developers involved.
>
> +1
IIRC though httpclient voted to leave, the rest of us applied a *lot*
of pressure. i don't think that they would have left without that kind
of arm-twisting.
- robert
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Re: math to apache commons was Re: [all] Separate email list for math development?
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
On Sunday, November 9, 2003, at 10:52 PM, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
> Regarding separate DEV list -- as I said in my earlier comments,
> that's totally
> up to the MATH developers if they want it or not. The fact that it
> might make
> my life easier certainly isn't binding. Note also that the httpclient
> guys
> were not pushed out; they deliberately chose to have a separate DEV
> list.
> That's the way it should work -- being up to the developers involved.
+1
>
>> Hen
>>
>
> Craig
>
>
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>
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
geirm@optonline.net
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Re: math to apache commons was Re: [all] Separate email list for math development?
Posted by "Craig R. McClanahan" <cr...@apache.org>.
Quoting Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>:
>
>
> On Sun, 9 Nov 2003, robert burrell donkin wrote:
>
> > On 9 Nov 2003, at 22:07, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> >
> > > 1.) Plausible, I understand though that Apache Commons is under
> > > subversion, will this be a challenge to migrate to?
> >
> > subversion is (by all accounts) very, very cool. everyone here at
> > apache will be using it sooner or later. those nice people over at
> > apache commons will allow commons-maths to use cvs initially (if that's
> > what's needed) but it'd probably be worthing thinking about making the
> > jump straight away.
>
> You'll also have active support from those in favour of Subversion [coders
> of which are at Apache] so I'd expect this to move smoothly.
>
> > > 2.) How will we relate to Jakarta Commons? certainly we may have
> > > dependencies on parts of the commons, but doesn't this leave little
> > > room for jakarta commons components to utilize math as a dependency as
> > > they are generally expected to be dependent on only other jakarta
> > > commons projects.
> >
> > commons-maths will still be part of jakarta-commons :)
> >
> > it'll only be managed by the apache-commons pmc.
>
> I'm with Rod here. It won't be a part of jakarta-commons, though it should
> still be some kind of link on the Jakarta site. Jakarta Commons ought to
> have a vote to add dependency on Apache Commons Java projects as an
> acceptable concpet.
>
> This does raise a question in the PMC-setup for the ASF. If a project is
> meant to be a part of Jakarta and another project, ie) Commons, must there
> be a 1 to 1 mapping on the PMCs.
>
>From a governance viewpoint, the correct way to state the actual assertion is
that "all Apache codebases must have a PMC responsible for them." The
technical location of the code and corresponding mailing lists doesn't
particularly matter -- but that's true SOLELY from this viewpoint.
>From a practical standpoint, people will look at the name of the CVS repository
(jakarta-commons), the name of the mailing list
(commons-dev@JAKARTA.apache.org), and make the natural inference that it's a
Jakarta PMC managed codebase. If it's actually being managed by the Apache
Commons project, that would be creating needless confusion -- if that's where
people want it to be managed, then the code and mailing list should also be
those associated with the Apache Commons project. If it's going to stay part
of Jakarta commons, then having the code and mailing list here is fine.
Regarding separate DEV list -- as I said in my earlier comments, that's totally
up to the MATH developers if they want it or not. The fact that it might make
my life easier certainly isn't binding. Note also that the httpclient guys
were not pushed out; they deliberately chose to have a separate DEV list.
That's the way it should work -- being up to the developers involved.
> Hen
>
Craig
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Re: math to apache commons was Re: [all] Separate email list for
math development?
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Sun, 9 Nov 2003, robert burrell donkin wrote:
> On 9 Nov 2003, at 22:07, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
>
> > 1.) Plausible, I understand though that Apache Commons is under
> > subversion, will this be a challenge to migrate to?
>
> subversion is (by all accounts) very, very cool. everyone here at
> apache will be using it sooner or later. those nice people over at
> apache commons will allow commons-maths to use cvs initially (if that's
> what's needed) but it'd probably be worthing thinking about making the
> jump straight away.
You'll also have active support from those in favour of Subversion [coders
of which are at Apache] so I'd expect this to move smoothly.
> > 2.) How will we relate to Jakarta Commons? certainly we may have
> > dependencies on parts of the commons, but doesn't this leave little
> > room for jakarta commons components to utilize math as a dependency as
> > they are generally expected to be dependent on only other jakarta
> > commons projects.
>
> commons-maths will still be part of jakarta-commons :)
>
> it'll only be managed by the apache-commons pmc.
I'm with Rod here. It won't be a part of jakarta-commons, though it should
still be some kind of link on the Jakarta site. Jakarta Commons ought to
have a vote to add dependency on Apache Commons Java projects as an
acceptable concpet.
This does raise a question in the PMC-setup for the ASF. If a project is
meant to be a part of Jakarta and another project, ie) Commons, must there
be a 1 to 1 mapping on the PMCs.
Hen
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Re: math to apache commons was Re: [all] Separate email list for math development?
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
On Sunday, November 9, 2003, at 05:35 PM, robert burrell donkin wrote:
> On 9 Nov 2003, at 22:07, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
>>
>> 2.) How will we relate to Jakarta Commons? certainly we may have
>> dependencies on parts of the commons, but doesn't this leave little
>> room for jakarta commons components to utilize math as a dependency
>> as they are generally expected to be dependent on only other jakarta
>> commons projects.
>
> commons-maths will still be part of jakarta-commons :)
>
> it'll only be managed by the apache-commons pmc.
>
Hang on there a sec. I must have missed something somewhere. You can't
have a jakarta-commons project that's managed by the apache-commons PMC
and in the apache-commons repository. By definition, such a project is
part of apache-commons, not jakarta-commons.
If a component wants to move, move. But lets be honest on what's
happening.
If the expectation of intra-j-c dependencies is just that, an
expectation, then I see no reason why there couldn't be dependencies on
an a-c component from j-c.
geir
> best of both worlds :)
>
> - robert
>
>
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>
>
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
geirm@optonline.net
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Re: math to apache commons was Re: [all] Separate email list for math development?
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On 9 Nov 2003, at 22:07, Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> Darn it, I just got done making all those little edits to hrefs and
> the bugzilla! ;-)
not a problem. they'll do just fine as they are :)
there's not reason why users should be bothered by the change (see
below).
> 1.) Plausible, I understand though that Apache Commons is under
> subversion, will this be a challenge to migrate to?
subversion is (by all accounts) very, very cool. everyone here at
apache will be using it sooner or later. those nice people over at
apache commons will allow commons-maths to use cvs initially (if that's
what's needed) but it'd probably be worthing thinking about making the
jump straight away.
> 2.) How will we relate to Jakarta Commons? certainly we may have
> dependencies on parts of the commons, but doesn't this leave little
> room for jakarta commons components to utilize math as a dependency as
> they are generally expected to be dependent on only other jakarta
> commons projects.
commons-maths will still be part of jakarta-commons :)
it'll only be managed by the apache-commons pmc.
best of both worlds :)
- robert
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