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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by Mike Stover <ms...@apache.org> on 2002/10/11 18:44:00 UTC
Developer wishes to donate project to Apache
Frank Cohen, author of TestMaker software (from www.pushtotest.com) would like to
donate the software to Apache (Jakarta). TestMake is similar in purpose to Apache
JMeter, but very different in execution. There are possibilities of sharing code between
the two projects, and swapping capabilities.
Frank would like to open a dialog with whomever is in charge of making any decisions
regarding this. Whom should he contact?
--
Michael Stover
mstover1@apache.org
Yahoo IM: mstover_ya
ICQ: 152975688
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Re: TestMaker and Jakarta
Posted by Frank Cohen <fc...@pushtotest.com>.
>> Your "viable community" comment has me puzzled. Would you please explain
>> your thoughts on the makings of a viable Apache community? I'm very
>> flexible and creative. Your comments might show me a better way of running
>> this project.
>
> Essentially it comes down to having a larger more diverse community. Warnings
> signs in your email "I respond to 90% of them myself.", "While this is still
> primarily a solo show". If there was 4-5 people who were consistently active
> this would be less of an issue.
That makes sense to me. I'd like to go steady for a while too before getting
your pin. :-)
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Peter Donald
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Don't take life too seriously --
> you'll never get out of it alive.
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> --
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Re: TestMaker and Jakarta
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@realityforge.org>.
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 07:21, Frank Cohen wrote:
> Thanks for pointing out the Incubator. It looks like a fine way to get
> started. I will follow-up with the Incubator process later this month when
> things quiet down for the holidays.
kool.
> Your "viable community" comment has me puzzled. Would you please explain
> your thoughts on the makings of a viable Apache community? I'm very
> flexible and creative. Your comments might show me a better way of running
> this project.
Essentially it comes down to having a larger more diverse community. Warnings
signs in your email "I respond to 90% of them myself.", "While this is still
primarily a solo show". If there was 4-5 people who were consistently active
this would be less of an issue.
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
-----------------------------------------------------------
Don't take life too seriously --
you'll never get out of it alive.
-----------------------------------------------------------
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Re: TestMaker and Jakarta
Posted by Frank Cohen <fc...@pushtotest.com>.
Thanks for pointing out the Incubator. It looks like a fine way to get
started. I will follow-up with the Incubator process later this month when
things quiet down for the holidays.
Your "viable community" comment has me puzzled. Would you please explain
your thoughts on the makings of a viable Apache community? I'm very flexible
and creative. Your comments might show me a better way of running this
project.
Thanks.
-Frank
--
Frank Cohen, Founder, http://www.PushToTest.com, phone: 408 374 7426
PushToTest offers free open-source test software and global services
solutions that test, monitor and automate Web Service systems for
functionality, scalability and performance.
> From: Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>
> Reply-To: "Jakarta General List" <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:31:02 +1100
> To: "Jakarta General List" <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: TestMaker and Jakarta
>
> I know some people that are big fans of TestMaker and would love to see it at
> Apache. The problem is that Testmaker does not fit our requirements for a
> community. In the end it doesn't matter about the quality of the code, the
> number of users, downloads etc unless you do have a viable community.
>
> If you are not deterred by this then I would recomend tht you go over to
> incubator.apache.org andsubmit it there where you can hopefully "grow" a
> community in Apache style.
>
> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:20, Frank Cohen wrote:
>> I wanted to bring the Jakarta general list up to date on my progress with
>> TestMaker. Here's how the project stands now:
>>
>> 1) The PushToTest web site that supports TestMaker is getting 110-160
>> unique visitors a day. The traffic comes mostly from Google searches.
>> Additional traffic comes from a variety of software development, QA and IT
>> sites. Plus, I have 5 articles on Web Service development and scalability
>> issues on IBM developerWorks that link to the PushToTest site.
>>
>> 2) TestMaker downloads average 100-300 per day. The difference from the Web
>> site visitors is that TestMaker is listed on Freshmeat with a blind link to
>> download the software. Registration for announcements is optional and so
>> far 2165 people have registered. I send newsletters every 5-6 weeks.
>>
>> 3) Support email lists get 5-10 postings per week. I respond to 90% of them
>> myself. Replies also come from contributors and committers.
>>
>> 4) TestMaker 3.1 was completed on November 12, 2003. The next version is
>> 3.2 which should be up by the end of December and will feature
>> SMTP/POP3/IMAP protocol handlers.
>>
>> 5) Coding on the .NET version of TestMaker began on November 2, 2002. The
>> new software will feature a C# library of protocol handlers and primarily
>> use VB.NET as its scripting language. I will author a series of articles
>> and likely a book on testing .NET Web Services in support of the code.
>> TestMaker .NET will be licensed under an Apache-style license as is the
>> current TestMaker 3.1. We should be done in Spring, with beta in February.
>>
>> 6) I am earning consulting money being the "go-to" guy for enterprises
>> needing to solve scalability problems in interoperating systems, especially
>> Web Services. I'm putting food on my families' table by customizing
>> TestMaker to meet enterprise customer needs. While this is still primarily
>> a solo show, 6 people provided contributions to TestMaker 3.1 and 2 more
>> are committers.
>>
>> I am still interested in donating TestMaker to Jakarta.
>>
>> -Frank
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Peter Donald
> ----------------------------------------
> "Liberty means responsibility. That is
> why most men dread it." - Locke
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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Re: TestMaker and Jakarta
Posted by Peter Donald <pe...@apache.org>.
I know some people that are big fans of TestMaker and would love to see it at
Apache. The problem is that Testmaker does not fit our requirements for a
community. In the end it doesn't matter about the quality of the code, the
number of users, downloads etc unless you do have a viable community.
If you are not deterred by this then I would recomend tht you go over to
incubator.apache.org andsubmit it there where you can hopefully "grow" a
community in Apache style.
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:20, Frank Cohen wrote:
> I wanted to bring the Jakarta general list up to date on my progress with
> TestMaker. Here's how the project stands now:
>
> 1) The PushToTest web site that supports TestMaker is getting 110-160
> unique visitors a day. The traffic comes mostly from Google searches.
> Additional traffic comes from a variety of software development, QA and IT
> sites. Plus, I have 5 articles on Web Service development and scalability
> issues on IBM developerWorks that link to the PushToTest site.
>
> 2) TestMaker downloads average 100-300 per day. The difference from the Web
> site visitors is that TestMaker is listed on Freshmeat with a blind link to
> download the software. Registration for announcements is optional and so
> far 2165 people have registered. I send newsletters every 5-6 weeks.
>
> 3) Support email lists get 5-10 postings per week. I respond to 90% of them
> myself. Replies also come from contributors and committers.
>
> 4) TestMaker 3.1 was completed on November 12, 2003. The next version is
> 3.2 which should be up by the end of December and will feature
> SMTP/POP3/IMAP protocol handlers.
>
> 5) Coding on the .NET version of TestMaker began on November 2, 2002. The
> new software will feature a C# library of protocol handlers and primarily
> use VB.NET as its scripting language. I will author a series of articles
> and likely a book on testing .NET Web Services in support of the code.
> TestMaker .NET will be licensed under an Apache-style license as is the
> current TestMaker 3.1. We should be done in Spring, with beta in February.
>
> 6) I am earning consulting money being the "go-to" guy for enterprises
> needing to solve scalability problems in interoperating systems, especially
> Web Services. I'm putting food on my families' table by customizing
> TestMaker to meet enterprise customer needs. While this is still primarily
> a solo show, 6 people provided contributions to TestMaker 3.1 and 2 more
> are committers.
>
> I am still interested in donating TestMaker to Jakarta.
>
> -Frank
--
Cheers,
Peter Donald
----------------------------------------
"Liberty means responsibility. That is
why most men dread it." - Locke
----------------------------------------
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TestMaker and Jakarta
Posted by Frank Cohen <fc...@pushtotest.com>.
I wanted to bring the Jakarta general list up to date on my progress with
TestMaker. Here's how the project stands now:
1) The PushToTest web site that supports TestMaker is getting 110-160 unique
visitors a day. The traffic comes mostly from Google searches. Additional
traffic comes from a variety of software development, QA and IT sites. Plus,
I have 5 articles on Web Service development and scalability issues on IBM
developerWorks that link to the PushToTest site.
2) TestMaker downloads average 100-300 per day. The difference from the Web
site visitors is that TestMaker is listed on Freshmeat with a blind link to
download the software. Registration for announcements is optional and so far
2165 people have registered. I send newsletters every 5-6 weeks.
3) Support email lists get 5-10 postings per week. I respond to 90% of them
myself. Replies also come from contributors and committers.
4) TestMaker 3.1 was completed on November 12, 2003. The next version is 3.2
which should be up by the end of December and will feature SMTP/POP3/IMAP
protocol handlers.
5) Coding on the .NET version of TestMaker began on November 2, 2002. The
new software will feature a C# library of protocol handlers and primarily
use VB.NET as its scripting language. I will author a series of articles and
likely a book on testing .NET Web Services in support of the code. TestMaker
.NET will be licensed under an Apache-style license as is the current
TestMaker 3.1. We should be done in Spring, with beta in February.
6) I am earning consulting money being the "go-to" guy for enterprises
needing to solve scalability problems in interoperating systems, especially
Web Services. I'm putting food on my families' table by customizing
TestMaker to meet enterprise customer needs. While this is still primarily a
solo show, 6 people provided contributions to TestMaker 3.1 and 2 more are
committers.
I am still interested in donating TestMaker to Jakarta.
-Frank
--
Frank Cohen, Founder, http://www.PushToTest.com, phone: 408 374 7426
PushToTest offers free open-source test software and global services
solutions that test, monitor and automate Web Service systems for
functionality, scalability and performance.
> From: Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>
> Reply-To: "Jakarta General List" <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 22:11:47 +1000
> To: Jakarta General List <ge...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Developer wishes to donate project to Apache
>
> On Sat, Oct 12, 2002 at 12:27:17PM -0400, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> ...
>> Why not bring into Jmeter?
>
> Frank tried [1] and was met with the same silence that greeted his ealier
> general@jakarta email [2].
>
> Anyone wanting to have a play, the url is:
>
> http://www.PushToTest.com/ptt
>
> Jon might even like it, as it uses a real scripting language (Jython) to
> script HTTP tests, rather than XML. All wrapped up in a Netbeans gui.
>
> Attached is an email I wrote to the author with my personal assessment of
> TestMaker's chances at Jakarta. I hope it doesn't discourage people from
> doing their own analysis, but apparently if these things aren't posted
> publicly, Jakarta gains a reputation of ignoring people's approaches.
>
>
> --Jeff
>
> <plug>
> co-author of a similar Ant-based testing framework, http://aft.sf.net
> </plug>
>
> [1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jmeter-dev&m=103064442221903&w=2
> [2] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-general&m=103064493222452&w=2
>
> From: Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>
> Date: Tuesday, September 3, 2002 10:11 PM
> To: Frank Cohen <fc...@pushtotest.com>
> CC: Geoff Lane <gl...@pushtotest.com>
> Subject: Re: TestMaker as subproject
>
> On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 09:09:49AM -0700, Frank Cohen wrote:
>>>> Hi Jeff: Thanks for your interest. TestMaker uses a lot of open-source
>>>> libraries: NetBeans, Jython, Xerces, JDOM, Apache SOAP, etc. The download
>>>> package on the Web site provides these all integrated and ready to use. The
>>>> components we wrote from scratch are the Test Object Oriented Library
>>>> (TOOL)
>>>> and the NetBeans module and localization/branding file.
>>>>
>>>> I'm laid up in bed with a nasty head cold - have been for the past 4 days.
>>>> Ugh. I'll send you a document that shows how to build TestMaker from all
>>>> the
>>>> parts shortly.
>>>
>>> That's okay, I downloaded the whole shebang yesterday, and don't reeeally
>>> need to build all from scratch ;)
>>
>> Great. How did the install go? Are you running Unix, Windows, ? Did you read
>> the docs?
>
> It all went nicely after I fixed the file formats.
>
>>> Anyway, just random thoughts :) I fully agree that the .NET vs Java war
>>> is hotting up and that OSS's achilles heel is the lack of coordination
>>> and integration.
>>
>> Is there a process to getting TestMaker considered as a subproject? I read
>> the Jakarta Web pages - which do a very good job a discouraging - but it
>> doesn't really say how a subproject is started. :-)
>
> You did it right. There's a Project Management Committee (PMC) of seven
> people who decide if a project gets in or not, and they decide based on
> interest expressed on general@jakarta. There, 99.9% of people don't know
> or use your project, so they form opinions mainly on criteria like these:
>
> 1) Is it suitable as per http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html
> 2) Is it a winner, ie is it leading the pack in it's market niche.
> 3) Does it's goals overlap with any existing, more widely know projects.
> 4) Does it integrate well with existing Jakarta projects.
>
> I think TestMaker meets 1), and given the sad, fragmented state of open
> source functional testing generally, doesn't fail 2) either.
>
> TestMaker's functionality does seem to overlap with JMeter somewhat,
> which is what Andrew Oliver said. Lately, people have been very
> unforgiving of projects that may fulfil the goals of related, more
> widely-known projects (in this case, JMeter). People do realise that
> fragmentation is hurting Java, so they'd rather callously say "go away
> and merge with X" than accept any project that isn't clearly unique or
> market-leading.
>
> Also, TestMaker seems more an integration of existing technologies
> (jython, netbeans) than a more traditional straight-Java project. The
> TestMaker-specific code (TOOL) has already been implemented at Jakarta,
> in the form of the HTTPClient project:
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/httpclient/
>
> At least, that is the impression a casual user gets from the TOOL
> description "Tool is the object library that handles communication with
> HTTP, HTTPS, SOAP, .NET, JDBC and other protocols."
>
> There's absolutely nothing wrong with projects that meet a need by
> integrating existing projects (assuming netbeans + jython + http lib ==
> TestMaker), but they don't really "fit" well in Jakarta. There's just so
> many permutations. If someone integrated Eclipse + jython + httplib,
> should that also live at Jakarta?
>
> Anyway, that's my brutally honest opinion :)
>
> Perhaps we should form a "Open Source Functional Testing Tools
> Consortium" to promote awareness of what's out there, and more
> collaboration amongst the various projects (Latka, Anteater, TestMaker,
> JMeter, WebTest.. any others?).
>
>
> --Jeff
>
>
>>> --Jeff
>>>
>>> [1] http://aft.sourceforge.net
>>> [2] http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/latka)
>>> [3] http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/jelly
>>>
>>>> -Frank
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Frank Cohen, CEO, PushToTest, www.pushtotest.com, phone: 408 374 7426
>>>> Come to PushToTest for free open-source Active Security solutions that
>>>> test,
>>>> monitor and automate Web Service systems for functionality, scalability and
>>>> performance.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>
>>>>> Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 14:42:35 +1000
>>>>> To: Frank Cohen <fc...@pushtotest.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: TestMaker as subproject
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> This looks very interesting. I'm trying to download the source to have a
>>>>> play. I've downloaded CVS modules 'tool' and 'testmaker', but that hardly
>>>>> looks like enough to generate a 17mb zip file. Are there other modules
>>>>> not mentioned in the FAQ?
>>>>>
>>>>> --Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 10:58:22AM -0700, Frank Cohen wrote:
>>>>>> Who should I contact to submit the TestMaker (formerly Load) project for
>>>>>> consideration as a Jakarta subproject?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been maintaining the TestMaker (formerly Load) framework for the
>>>>>> past
>>>>>> 5
>>>>>> years. TestMaker is a framework for building intelligent test agents that
>>>>>> check Web systems based on HTTP, HTTPS, SOAP, and XML-RPC for
>>>>>> scalability,
>>>>>> performance and functionality. TestMaker lives on the
>>>>>> http://www.PushToTest.com/ptt site and has an modest community of users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TestMaker would make a nice addition to the JUnit and JMeter subprojects.
>>>>>> JUnit and JMeter focus on providing Java developers with frameworks for
>>>>>> unit
>>>>>> and system tests. TestMaker focuses on QA engineers and IT managers that
>>>>>> may
>>>>>> know how to code Java objects but are more comfortable in a GUI
>>>>>> environment
>>>>>> with a script language.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TestMaker is distributed under an Apache-style license. The PushToTest
>>>>>> site
>>>>>> normally gets 60-100 people a day visiting, with about half downloading
>>>>>> TestMaker. 6500 people have downloaded the software. 1840 are on the
>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>> list to receive announcements. 20 people are on the developer email list,
>>>>>> with myself and 2 others applying patches and new features on a monthly
>>>>>> basis. The traffic is mostly from Google searches for "free test
>>>>>> automation
>>>>>> software", the articles I have written for IBM developerWorks, and the
>>>>>> Testing Web Services book I am writing
>>>>>> (http://www.pushtotest.com/ptt/thebook.html.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My sense of the oncoming .NET vs J2EE fight motivates me to seek Apache's
>>>>>> adoption of TestMaker. .NET is fabulous for developers because it is
>>>>>> complete. The completeness of .NET is an advantage over the disparity and
>>>>>> disjointed set of tools in the J2EE camp. In my mind, Apache is best
>>>>>> positioned to offer a competing platform of tools and server software to
>>>>>> developers. Having TestMaker in Jakarta would be the equivalent of adding
>>>>>> Microsoft ACT or Mercury Interactive Loadrunner to the Apache platform.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please let me know your thoughts on this proposal. Thank you, in advance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Frank Cohen
>>>>>> http://www.PushToTest.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Frank Cohen, CEO, PushToTest, www.pushtotest.com, phone: 408 374 7426
>>>>>> Come to PushToTest for free open-source Active Security solutions that
>>>>>> test,
>>>>>> monitor and automate Web Service systems for functionality, scalability
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> performance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Hell is a state of mind. And every state of mind, left to itself,
>>>>> every shutting up of the creature within the dungeon of it's own
>>>>> mind -- is, in the end, Hell.
>>>>> C.S. Lewis, _The Great Divorce_
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Hell is a state of mind. And every state of mind, left to itself,
>>> every shutting up of the creature within the dungeon of it's own
>>> mind -- is, in the end, Hell.
>>> C.S. Lewis, _The Great Divorce_
>>
>
> --
> Hell is a state of mind. And every state of mind, left to itself,
> every shutting up of the creature within the dungeon of it's own
> mind -- is, in the end, Hell.
> C.S. Lewis, _The Great Divorce_
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
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Re: Developer wishes to donate project to Apache
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Oct 12, 2002 at 12:27:17PM -0400, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
...
> Why not bring into Jmeter?
Frank tried [1] and was met with the same silence that greeted his ealier
general@jakarta email [2].
Anyone wanting to have a play, the url is:
http://www.PushToTest.com/ptt
Jon might even like it, as it uses a real scripting language (Jython) to
script HTTP tests, rather than XML. All wrapped up in a Netbeans gui.
Attached is an email I wrote to the author with my personal assessment of
TestMaker's chances at Jakarta. I hope it doesn't discourage people from
doing their own analysis, but apparently if these things aren't posted
publicly, Jakarta gains a reputation of ignoring people's approaches.
--Jeff
<plug>
co-author of a similar Ant-based testing framework, http://aft.sf.net
</plug>
[1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jmeter-dev&m=103064442221903&w=2
[2] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-general&m=103064493222452&w=2
Re: Developer wishes to donate project to Apache
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
On 10/11/02 2:55 PM, "Jon Scott Stevens" <jo...@latchkey.com> wrote:
> on 2002/10/11 9:44 AM, "Mike Stover" <ms...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Frank Cohen, author of TestMaker software (from www.pushtotest.com) would
>> like
>> to
>> donate the software to Apache (Jakarta). TestMake is similar in purpose to
>> Apache
>> JMeter, but very different in execution. There are possibilities of sharing
>> code between
>> the two projects, and swapping capabilities.
>>
>> Frank would like to open a dialog with whomever is in charge of making any
>> decisions
>> regarding this. Whom should he contact?
>
> RTM?
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html
>
> -jon
Why not bring into Jmeter?
--
Geir Magnusson Jr.
geirm@adeptra.com +1-203-355-2219 (w)
Adeptra Inc. +1-203-247-1713 (m)
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Re: Developer wishes to donate project to Apache
Posted by Jon Scott Stevens <jo...@latchkey.com>.
on 2002/10/11 9:44 AM, "Mike Stover" <ms...@apache.org> wrote:
> Frank Cohen, author of TestMaker software (from www.pushtotest.com) would like
> to
> donate the software to Apache (Jakarta). TestMake is similar in purpose to
> Apache
> JMeter, but very different in execution. There are possibilities of sharing
> code between
> the two projects, and swapping capabilities.
>
> Frank would like to open a dialog with whomever is in charge of making any
> decisions
> regarding this. Whom should he contact?
RTM?
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html
-jon
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314 11th Street @ Folsom /\ San Francisco
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