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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by "zheng.easyfan" <zh...@gmail.com> on 2012/10/01 06:41:31 UTC
回复: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
HI, Zhun Guo:
In general, I agree with your second point in the mail that, we should make better interoperability of office productions. And my opinion here is that, in the category of interoperability, we even should not trying to separate the office applications as on line or off line ones. For whatever the type of an office application it is, the exactly necessary function it should supplied is to represent a document with specified file format correctly. And to any document from any user of any office application, there should be only one CORRECT representation result anyway.
And I guess, the interoperability topics are the most important ones for each member of this community. For such kind of issues, as the most visible ones, are always directly driven by users :(
So, what is your suggestion or idea for it?
Zhengfan
已从三星手机发送zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com> 写道：Dear All:
It is necessary for all cloud office interoperability with each other. Do you think so ?
What I want to do,is not to design a product for my own company. I just want to , between all cloud office websites, it can send documents quickly. Such as ,Google Docs can send documents to Microsoft Office 365 quickly, and directly . But now , Google Docs can only send documents using email (SMTP) to Hotmail. So i think HTTP(SPDY) is better than SMTP for transfer online office documents ? So we should suggest ,IBM Docs and Office 365 ,Acobat.com use the same protocol.
The second thing I want to do ,all online office interoperability . your know , for native office, an Microsoft Office 2010 document should be open and reedit by an Openoffice.org user , it means native office interoperability. Then for the cloud office, it also need interoperability.
So let us do this thing together!As I know ,you all are great man and warmhearted! ?Thanks !
Please see more details in my email attachments! or via a web site:http://online-office-interoperability.blogspot.com/
Best Regards!
Zhun Guo
Shanghai Biaoma IT Co.
www.mabaoo.com
mike5guo(at)gmail.com
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 10/5/12 4:47 PM, zhun guo wrote:
> to all ,I suggest AOO to develop its own online office software quickly,
> just as Libre-office-on-line(LOOL) !
> It is the Trend!
>
feel free to start, I am sure we can create a sub project ;-)
Juergen
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com>.
to all ,I suggest AOO to develop its own online office software quickly,
just as Libre-office-on-line(LOOL) !
It is the Trend!
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by Zhun Guo <mi...@gmail.com>.
cloud office productivity documents website: how to make both user
experience consistent , for users between different websites, with the
experience for users within the same site ? interoperability of cloud
office productivity documents ? This is my question. Thanks!
RE: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
Hi!
It is important to remember that XML was a disruption of SGML, not HTML.
I don't understand your list, below. RELAX NG compact syntax and N3 are special purpose formats, not markup languages. CSS is also a special purpose format. And JSON too.
They have particular values in special domains. (And some have representations in XML as well, for those who want to use the same markup and transport system.)
If you are interested in simplifications of XML, you might take a look at the microXML initiative. It is also struggling with being more accommodating of HTML (which was inspired by SGML too, not XML).
<http://www.w3.org/community/microxml/>
I still have questions about the problem your solutions are intended to solve [;<)
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: zhun guo [mailto:mike5guo@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 23:30
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
To avoid this deadly risk, the first design goal of XML should have been
that existing valid HTML documents were well formed XML documents. The
result might have been a more complex format and specification, but this
risk to create a gap between XML and HTML communities would have been
minimized.
Another reason to explain this failure is that XML is about extensibility.
This is both its main strength and weakness: extensibility comes at a price
and XML is more complex than domain specific languages.
Remove the need for extensibility and XML will always loose against DSLs,
we’ve seen a number of examples in the past:
- RELAX NG compact syntax
- JSON
- HTML
- N3
- CSS
- …
Is it a time to refactor XML? Converge or convert?
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com>.
To avoid this deadly risk, the first design goal of XML should have been
that existing valid HTML documents were well formed XML documents. The
result might have been a more complex format and specification, but this
risk to create a gap between XML and HTML communities would have been
minimized.
Another reason to explain this failure is that XML is about extensibility.
This is both its main strength and weakness: extensibility comes at a price
and XML is more complex than domain specific languages.
Remove the need for extensibility and XML will always loose against DSLs,
we’ve seen a number of examples in the past:
- RELAX NG compact syntax
- JSON
- HTML
- N3
- CSS
- …
Is it a time to refactor XML? Converge or convert?
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by BIG JAM <in...@bigjam.191.it>.
> To Alexandro Colorado: This article is so good for understanding of
> history of HTML or XML. Thanks!
Il giorno 11/ott/2012, alle ore 15:51, zhun guo ha scritto:
>> To Alexandro Colorado: This article is so good for understanding of
>> history of HTML or XML. Thanks!
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com>.
>
> What means ?
>
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by BIG JAM <in...@bigjam.191.it>.
thanks if you can help me ..
give me your mail?
Dario
Il giorno 11/ott/2012, alle ore 15:51, zhun guo ha scritto:
>> To Alexandro Colorado: This article is so good for understanding of
>> history of HTML or XML. Thanks!
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
On 11 October 2012 15:04, BIG JAM <in...@bigjam.191.it> wrote:
> I'm looking for a programmer to help me (surcharge)
> to make an extension for open office
>
> Why did you send me this?
>
You are in a public discussion forum in a discussion thread about cloud
office interoperability. You will get replies to this thread from any of
the participants. If you are interested in a programming project, start a
new thread by putting something like "Programmer needed" in the subject
title of a post to the ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org address. Then replies
to that post will be relevant to the subject title.
> Il giorno 11/ott/2012, alle ore 15:51, zhun guo ha scritto:
>
> >> To Alexandro Colorado: This article is so good for understanding of
> >> history of HTML or XML. Thanks!
>
>
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by BIG JAM <in...@bigjam.191.it>.
I'm looking for a programmer to help me (surcharge)
to make an extension for open office
Why did you send me this?
Il giorno 11/ott/2012, alle ore 15:51, zhun guo ha scritto:
>> To Alexandro Colorado: This article is so good for understanding of
>> history of HTML or XML. Thanks!
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com>.
>
>
> To Alexandro Colorado: This article is so good for understanding of
> history of HTML or XML. Thanks!
>
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>.
A more recent blog post written by Ed Dumbil also explain the raise
and fall of XML as a whole. In the past few years, XML has been
replaced with less verbosed formats such as JSON which is dominant in
the use of data exchange over simple protocols like REST over thicker
ones like SOAP.
Here is a good related article about it
http://eric.van-der-vlist.com/blog/2012/02/14/xml-the-ex-markup-language/
On 10/10/12, zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
> In October 2006, Sir Tim Berners-Lee wrote a blog post in which he
> admitted that the attempt
> to move the web from HTML to XML just wasn’t working
>
--
Alexandro Colorado
PPMC Apache OpenOffice
http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com>.
>
>
>
In October 2006, Sir Tim Berners-Lee wrote a blog post in which he
admitted that the attempt
to move the web from HTML to XML just wasn’t working
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com>.
Dear all , Who know some person,which work in Google Docs, IBM Docs,Cisco
WebEX,Zoho,ThinkFree, these people maybe are more helpful for the topic,
native and cloud office documents interoperability! We can invite them.
Zhun Guo
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
On 5 October 2012 17:37, Dennis E. Hamilton <or...@apache.org> wrote:
> Shortly after the publication of ODF 1.0, there were claims by some that
> ODF was a universal format and that MSFT should simply adopt it, because as
> a universal format, ODF can certainly carry anything that Microsoft Office
> then carried in its binary formats. This was also a factor in the argument
> that OOXML was not needed at the ISO level since ODF was there already.
>
> As far as I can tell, that was some sort of magical thinking. It
> completely ignored the reality of document models and what they do and do
> not afford as an expression of the documents of users. It completely
> ignored the prospect that document models can be so disparate that their
> perfect bidirectional mapping is not only impractical but unknown.
>
> There is no indication that ODF of any version is a universal format in
> the sense that it is practical for all products to target it as a common
> interchange format.
>
> More to the point, there is no evidence that there is a practical
> universal format.
>
> Something else to consider: ODF is not the same as OpenOffice. There are
> divergent implementations of ODF (even ignoring however close Microsoft
> comes, but however close Microsoft comes is practically of great
> importance). There is no known *complete* implementation of ODF anywhere,
> ignoring the features that ODF does not even address or that leaves
> completely open to implementation-dependent variation.
>
> I favor ODF being perfected. That is not a simple matter. The OASIS ODF
> TC is, in my opinion, currently denting its spears on providing an
> understandable change-tracking mechanism that hurdles the bar set by
> current practice and user expectations. The current direction is to
> abandon the change-tracking as it is currently, though imperfectly,
> specified.
>
> Meanwhile there is *no* scripting language or macro provision in ODF.
> There is no provision for extensions in ODF (and having a
> platform-independent one of those would be quite remarkable). These are
> all very practical problems that are very difficult to reconcile at a
> document-format standardization level.
>
> Work at the ODF TC is not that much different than working on an
> open-source project. There have to be individuals who come to OASIS that
> can tolerant working on standards and that can make useful contributions.
> Saying what could or should happen without there being appropriate
> capability brought to the ODF TC is not going to accomplish anything.
>
> I favor ODF as a document format. It is necessary to be realistic about
> what can happen in its improvement and stabilization as a practical matter.
>
> - Dennis
>
> PS: I agree with the remark of Yong Lin Ma. The way to understand the
> difficulties in reconciling formats is to deal with the details involved in
> order to improve AOO's interoperability with OOXML. It is tedious work in
> the trenches that will calibrate the areas of feature harmony and the
> places where bridging model incompatibility is intractable.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Lynch [mailto:ianrlynch@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 08:13
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
>
> On 5 October 2012 13:28, Yong Lin Ma <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > That is an nice expectation.
> >
> > What do you suggest the AOO community do except improving AOO's
> > interoperability with ooxml?
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 8:18 PM, zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > To Yong Lin Ma,my proposal is to get all office software to be
> convenient
> > > for common user, include native office software or cloud office
> > software. I
> > > like ODF,OOXML,PDF or HTML. And you?
> >
> >
> For me I'd like to see convergence to a single XML based open standard that
> supported full data fidelity when transferring information between editors
> whether on line, desktop or mobile. This is quite a long way off but odf
> could be the starting point to get there. Other than MSFT I can't see
> anyone wanting to adopt OOXML as the native format in other non-microsoft
> products for fear of lock-in and intellectual property issues. MSFT shows
> no sign of replacing OOXML with odf so probably getting very good filters
> between odf and OOXML is the best hope. If that was achieved it would make
> sense for any new software to use one of those two formats as its default
> so there would be pressure for convergence.
>
Dennis,
I think we are saying the same thing. odf needs to be refined and improved
but in that process there have to be very good translations to and from it
from other dominant formats. Eventually we might get to a single format
that is universal. AOO and LibO are the best hope of implementing odf and
getting sufficient take up to drive it as the preferred standard.
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.
RE: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <or...@apache.org>.
Shortly after the publication of ODF 1.0, there were claims by some that ODF was a universal format and that MSFT should simply adopt it, because as a universal format, ODF can certainly carry anything that Microsoft Office then carried in its binary formats. This was also a factor in the argument that OOXML was not needed at the ISO level since ODF was there already.
As far as I can tell, that was some sort of magical thinking. It completely ignored the reality of document models and what they do and do not afford as an expression of the documents of users. It completely ignored the prospect that document models can be so disparate that their perfect bidirectional mapping is not only impractical but unknown.
There is no indication that ODF of any version is a universal format in the sense that it is practical for all products to target it as a common interchange format.
More to the point, there is no evidence that there is a practical universal format.
Something else to consider: ODF is not the same as OpenOffice. There are divergent implementations of ODF (even ignoring however close Microsoft comes, but however close Microsoft comes is practically of great importance). There is no known *complete* implementation of ODF anywhere, ignoring the features that ODF does not even address or that leaves completely open to implementation-dependent variation.
I favor ODF being perfected. That is not a simple matter. The OASIS ODF TC is, in my opinion, currently denting its spears on providing an understandable change-tracking mechanism that hurdles the bar set by current practice and user expectations. The current direction is to abandon the change-tracking as it is currently, though imperfectly, specified.
Meanwhile there is *no* scripting language or macro provision in ODF. There is no provision for extensions in ODF (and having a platform-independent one of those would be quite remarkable). These are all very practical problems that are very difficult to reconcile at a document-format standardization level.
Work at the ODF TC is not that much different than working on an open-source project. There have to be individuals who come to OASIS that can tolerant working on standards and that can make useful contributions. Saying what could or should happen without there being appropriate capability brought to the ODF TC is not going to accomplish anything.
I favor ODF as a document format. It is necessary to be realistic about what can happen in its improvement and stabilization as a practical matter.
- Dennis
PS: I agree with the remark of Yong Lin Ma. The way to understand the difficulties in reconciling formats is to deal with the details involved in order to improve AOO's interoperability with OOXML. It is tedious work in the trenches that will calibrate the areas of feature harmony and the places where bridging model incompatibility is intractable.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Lynch [mailto:ianrlynch@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 08:13
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
On 5 October 2012 13:28, Yong Lin Ma <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> That is an nice expectation.
>
> What do you suggest the AOO community do except improving AOO's
> interoperability with ooxml?
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 8:18 PM, zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > To Yong Lin Ma,my proposal is to get all office software to be convenient
> > for common user, include native office software or cloud office
> software. I
> > like ODF,OOXML,PDF or HTML. And you?
>
>
For me I'd like to see convergence to a single XML based open standard that
supported full data fidelity when transferring information between editors
whether on line, desktop or mobile. This is quite a long way off but odf
could be the starting point to get there. Other than MSFT I can't see
anyone wanting to adopt OOXML as the native format in other non-microsoft
products for fear of lock-in and intellectual property issues. MSFT shows
no sign of replacing OOXML with odf so probably getting very good filters
between odf and OOXML is the best hope. If that was achieved it would make
sense for any new software to use one of those two formats as its default
so there would be pressure for convergence.
> Zhun Guo
>
>
>
> --
> Regards
>
> Yong Lin Ma
>
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
On 5 October 2012 13:28, Yong Lin Ma <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> That is an nice expectation.
>
> What do you suggest the AOO community do except improving AOO's
> interoperability with ooxml?
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 8:18 PM, zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > To Yong Lin Ma,my proposal is to get all office software to be convenient
> > for common user, include native office software or cloud office
> software. I
> > like ODF,OOXML,PDF or HTML. And you?
>
>
For me I'd like to see convergence to a single XML based open standard that
supported full data fidelity when transferring information between editors
whether on line, desktop or mobile. This is quite a long way off but odf
could be the starting point to get there. Other than MSFT I can't see
anyone wanting to adopt OOXML as the native format in other non-microsoft
products for fear of lock-in and intellectual property issues. MSFT shows
no sign of replacing OOXML with odf so probably getting very good filters
between odf and OOXML is the best hope. If that was achieved it would make
sense for any new software to use one of those two formats as its default
so there would be pressure for convergence.
> Zhun Guo
>
>
>
> --
> Regards
>
> Yong Lin Ma
>
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by Yong Lin Ma <ma...@apache.org>.
That is an nice expectation.
What do you suggest the AOO community do except improving AOO's
interoperability with ooxml?
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 8:18 PM, zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> To Yong Lin Ma,my proposal is to get all office software to be convenient
> for common user, include native office software or cloud office software. I
> like ODF,OOXML,PDF or HTML . And you?
>
> Zhun Guo
--
Regards
Yong Lin Ma
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com>.
To Yong Lin Ma,my proposal is to get all office software to be convenient
for common user, include native office software or cloud office software. I
like ODF,OOXML,PDF or HTML . And you?
Zhun Guo
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by Yong Lin Ma <ma...@apache.org>.
Zhun,
Could you recap your proposal for AOO again?
It is a battle between ODF and OOXML. It is not negotiable.
Introducing a new format would not help. (html can help under certain
circumstance) .
For AOO, improving its interoperability with ooxml is important and we
get contributors working on it. MS also claims its support to ODF, but
it is not countable for solving the interoperability issues between
ODF and OOXML.
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 4:22 PM, zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> To Dennis, why not consider about HTML ?
>
> Zhun Guo
--
Regards
Yong Lin Ma
RE: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <or...@apache.org>.
I don't understand what problem it is expected that use of HTML will solve.
Are you suggesting that HTML[5] can become a common/universal interchange format.
Do you consider ePub a candidate?
Note that even using Webkit as a common support for presentation of documents to users does not assure anything about interchange of the document files.
I am puzzled.
How is HTML related to the problems of interchange among desktop office document formats?
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: zhun guo [mailto:mike5guo@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 01:23
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; orcmid@apache.org
Subject: Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
To Dennis, why not consider about HTML ?
Zhun Guo
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com>.
To Dennis, why not consider about HTML ?
Zhun Guo
RE: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <or...@apache.org>.
I don't understand.
Microsoft began supporting ODF 1.0 in Office 2007 (SP2 I think).
They also support ODF 1.0 in Office 2010.
In Office 2013/365 there is support for ODF 1.2, including with support of OpenFormula in Excel.
There are now three ways to consider interoperability among Office and OpenOffice users - via Office Binary Formats, via OOXML, and via ODF 1.2.
Also, the support for ODF documents is now extending to the Web version of Word, Excel, and PowerPoint in the SkyDrive cloud service. That provides a more-limited but useful potential for interchange, at least for the browsers that SkyDrive supports with Office Web access.
I assume that there is not full agreement of functionality.
I think now is time to see how successful interchange can be. Then learn where are the best areas for improvement.
I agree that this interoperability is very important. It is not easy. Not even if everyone is eager and willing.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: zhun guo [mailto:mike5guo@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 19:30
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
to Juergen, Microsoft will never support ODF. But Microsoft's market share
is 95%. We must cooperate with Microsoft.
Which all company support is HTML . So it is the only format ,with it all
the company can interoperate?
Zhun Guo
2012/10/4 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>
> On 10/4/12 4:06 PM, zhun guo wrote:
> > Hi,all,Joost not knew our means. We means ,how to solve the problem,the
> > difficult of ODF interoperate with OOXML ,which Ian Lynch had met. this
> is
> > for native office software.
> > * The second , cloud office documents company also face the same
> > question, *Google Docs，Microsoft Office 365，Zoho，苹果icloud，Adobe
> > Acrobat.com<https://www.acrobat.com/>
> > ，ThinkFree <http://thinkfree.com/>，Cisco WebEx
> > WebOffice<http://www.weboffice.com/>
> > ，IBM Docs ,etc, use ODF,OOXML,PDF,HTML . Then how to interoperate with
> > each other?
>
> by supporting one really open standard like ODF ;-) And work together on
> improvements or enhancements where necessary. Online editors are tools
> that work on docs in an cloud storage and desktop clients like AOO can
> access these docs as well. The question is more how collaborative
> editing on ODF can be managed in a way that online editors as well as
> desktop clients can use it. It probably don't have to be a completely
> new format.
>
> Juergen
>
>
> >
> > Zhun Guo
> >
> >
> > 2012/10/2 Joost Andrae <Jo...@gmx.de>
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Am 02.10.2012 13:03, schrieb zhun guo:
> >>> Hi,Zhengfan and Ian Lynch,
> >>> All format office documents' interoperability is important.
> >>> 1. ODF and OOXML, is more concerned about data storage. Microsoft, and
> >>> OpenOffice is the supporter。But we need ODF and OOXML to be merged to
> a
> >>> new one format. And some wroking are doing 。Otherwise， we should face
> the
> >>> question,just like Ian Lynch's problem.
> >>> 2. HTML, is more concerned about data revealing。 Google Docs，IBM
> >>> Docs，Microsoft Office 365,Zoho,Think Free,Adobe Acobat, Cisco WebEx
> ,all
> >>> these cloud office documents select the same format. Maybe it is a new
> >> way
> >>> for office documents interoperability. As Rob Weir ,OASIS OpenDocument
> TC
> >>> chairman,says"
> >>> I find the topic of web editor interoperability very interesting. It
> >>> is, in many ways, the continuation of the "office interop" battles we
> >>> have fought for the last decade. But the new technology brings new
> >>> challenges and new opportunities, and perhaps even an opportunity to
> >>> avoid repeating the mistakes of the past!
> >>> "
> >>> ODF? OOXML?PDF?HTML?...I think it is better to choose one format
> for
> >>> documents interoperability,than choose two or three! It is important
> >> ,just
> >>> like ASCII which is the basic for Information Interchange.
> >>> Do you agree?
> >>
> >> ACSII compared to the characters within a GB18030 font ? This is just
> >> one example why ASCII doesn't work here. UNICODE characters within a XML
> >> based document format is much better for information exchange especially
> >> if you use an application that has been globalized and localized to a
> >> valuable number of languages. And as long as ODF and it's counterparts
> >> are comparable to other document formats then why should there be a new
> >> document format? ODF is ISO and OASIS approved, has been designed for
> >> this purpose and it can be used by everyone. And parts of your ideas
> >> have already been implemented as UOF in China.
> >> Using ODFDOM (http://incubator.apache.org/odftoolkit/) as a basis for
> >> such an application could serve very well as a container to proof
> >> interoperability between applications by using ODF as it's container.
> >>
> >> Kind regards, Joost
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com>.
to Juergen, Microsoft will never support ODF. But Microsoft's market share
is 95%. We must cooperate with Microsoft.
Which all company support is HTML . So it is the only format ,with it all
the company can interoperate?
Zhun Guo
2012/10/4 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>
> On 10/4/12 4:06 PM, zhun guo wrote:
> > Hi,all,Joost not knew our means. We means ,how to solve the problem,the
> > difficult of ODF interoperate with OOXML ,which Ian Lynch had met. this
> is
> > for native office software.
> > * The second , cloud office documents company also face the same
> > question, *Google Docs，Microsoft Office 365，Zoho，苹果icloud，Adobe
> > Acrobat.com<https://www.acrobat.com/>
> > ，ThinkFree <http://thinkfree.com/>，Cisco WebEx
> > WebOffice<http://www.weboffice.com/>
> > ，IBM Docs ,etc, use ODF,OOXML,PDF,HTML . Then how to interoperate with
> > each other?
>
> by supporting one really open standard like ODF ;-) And work together on
> improvements or enhancements where necessary. Online editors are tools
> that work on docs in an cloud storage and desktop clients like AOO can
> access these docs as well. The question is more how collaborative
> editing on ODF can be managed in a way that online editors as well as
> desktop clients can use it. It probably don't have to be a completely
> new format.
>
> Juergen
>
>
> >
> > Zhun Guo
> >
> >
> > 2012/10/2 Joost Andrae <Jo...@gmx.de>
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Am 02.10.2012 13:03, schrieb zhun guo:
> >>> Hi,Zhengfan and Ian Lynch,
> >>> All format office documents' interoperability is important.
> >>> 1. ODF and OOXML, is more concerned about data storage. Microsoft, and
> >>> OpenOffice is the supporter。But we need ODF and OOXML to be merged to
> a
> >>> new one format. And some wroking are doing 。Otherwise， we should face
> the
> >>> question,just like Ian Lynch's problem.
> >>> 2. HTML, is more concerned about data revealing。 Google Docs，IBM
> >>> Docs，Microsoft Office 365,Zoho,Think Free,Adobe Acobat, Cisco WebEx
> ,all
> >>> these cloud office documents select the same format. Maybe it is a new
> >> way
> >>> for office documents interoperability. As Rob Weir ,OASIS OpenDocument
> TC
> >>> chairman,says"
> >>> I find the topic of web editor interoperability very interesting. It
> >>> is, in many ways, the continuation of the "office interop" battles we
> >>> have fought for the last decade. But the new technology brings new
> >>> challenges and new opportunities, and perhaps even an opportunity to
> >>> avoid repeating the mistakes of the past!
> >>> "
> >>> ODF? OOXML?PDF?HTML?...I think it is better to choose one format
> for
> >>> documents interoperability,than choose two or three! It is important
> >> ,just
> >>> like ASCII which is the basic for Information Interchange.
> >>> Do you agree?
> >>
> >> ACSII compared to the characters within a GB18030 font ? This is just
> >> one example why ASCII doesn't work here. UNICODE characters within a XML
> >> based document format is much better for information exchange especially
> >> if you use an application that has been globalized and localized to a
> >> valuable number of languages. And as long as ODF and it's counterparts
> >> are comparable to other document formats then why should there be a new
> >> document format? ODF is ISO and OASIS approved, has been designed for
> >> this purpose and it can be used by everyone. And parts of your ideas
> >> have already been implemented as UOF in China.
> >> Using ODFDOM (http://incubator.apache.org/odftoolkit/) as a basis for
> >> such an application could serve very well as a container to proof
> >> interoperability between applications by using ODF as it's container.
> >>
> >> Kind regards, Joost
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 10/4/12 4:06 PM, zhun guo wrote:
> Hi,all,Joost not knew our means. We means ,how to solve the problem,the
> difficult of ODF interoperate with OOXML ,which Ian Lynch had met. this is
> for native office software.
> * The second , cloud office documents company also face the same
> question, *Google Docs，Microsoft Office 365，Zoho，苹果icloud，Adobe
> Acrobat.com<https://www.acrobat.com/>
> ，ThinkFree <http://thinkfree.com/>，Cisco WebEx
> WebOffice<http://www.weboffice.com/>
> ，IBM Docs ,etc, use ODF,OOXML,PDF,HTML . Then how to interoperate with
> each other?
by supporting one really open standard like ODF ;-) And work together on
improvements or enhancements where necessary. Online editors are tools
that work on docs in an cloud storage and desktop clients like AOO can
access these docs as well. The question is more how collaborative
editing on ODF can be managed in a way that online editors as well as
desktop clients can use it. It probably don't have to be a completely
new format.
Juergen
>
> Zhun Guo
>
>
> 2012/10/2 Joost Andrae <Jo...@gmx.de>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Am 02.10.2012 13:03, schrieb zhun guo:
>>> Hi,Zhengfan and Ian Lynch,
>>> All format office documents' interoperability is important.
>>> 1. ODF and OOXML, is more concerned about data storage. Microsoft, and
>>> OpenOffice is the supporter。But we need ODF and OOXML to be merged to a
>>> new one format. And some wroking are doing 。Otherwise， we should face the
>>> question,just like Ian Lynch's problem.
>>> 2. HTML, is more concerned about data revealing。 Google Docs，IBM
>>> Docs，Microsoft Office 365,Zoho,Think Free,Adobe Acobat, Cisco WebEx ,all
>>> these cloud office documents select the same format. Maybe it is a new
>> way
>>> for office documents interoperability. As Rob Weir ,OASIS OpenDocument TC
>>> chairman,says"
>>> I find the topic of web editor interoperability very interesting. It
>>> is, in many ways, the continuation of the "office interop" battles we
>>> have fought for the last decade. But the new technology brings new
>>> challenges and new opportunities, and perhaps even an opportunity to
>>> avoid repeating the mistakes of the past!
>>> "
>>> ODF? OOXML?PDF?HTML?...I think it is better to choose one format for
>>> documents interoperability,than choose two or three! It is important
>> ,just
>>> like ASCII which is the basic for Information Interchange.
>>> Do you agree?
>>
>> ACSII compared to the characters within a GB18030 font ? This is just
>> one example why ASCII doesn't work here. UNICODE characters within a XML
>> based document format is much better for information exchange especially
>> if you use an application that has been globalized and localized to a
>> valuable number of languages. And as long as ODF and it's counterparts
>> are comparable to other document formats then why should there be a new
>> document format? ODF is ISO and OASIS approved, has been designed for
>> this purpose and it can be used by everyone. And parts of your ideas
>> have already been implemented as UOF in China.
>> Using ODFDOM (http://incubator.apache.org/odftoolkit/) as a basis for
>> such an application could serve very well as a container to proof
>> interoperability between applications by using ODF as it's container.
>>
>> Kind regards, Joost
>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com>.
Hi,all,Joost not knew our means. We means ,how to solve the problem,the
difficult of ODF interoperate with OOXML ,which Ian Lynch had met. this is
for native office software.
* The second , cloud office documents company also face the same
question, *Google Docs，Microsoft Office 365，Zoho，苹果icloud，Adobe
Acrobat.com<https://www.acrobat.com/>
，ThinkFree <http://thinkfree.com/>，Cisco WebEx
WebOffice<http://www.weboffice.com/>
，IBM Docs ,etc, use ODF,OOXML,PDF,HTML . Then how to interoperate with
each other?
Zhun Guo
2012/10/2 Joost Andrae <Jo...@gmx.de>
> Hi,
>
> Am 02.10.2012 13:03, schrieb zhun guo:
> > Hi,Zhengfan and Ian Lynch,
> > All format office documents' interoperability is important.
> > 1. ODF and OOXML, is more concerned about data storage. Microsoft, and
> > OpenOffice is the supporter。But we need ODF and OOXML to be merged to a
> > new one format. And some wroking are doing 。Otherwise， we should face the
> > question,just like Ian Lynch's problem.
> > 2. HTML, is more concerned about data revealing。 Google Docs，IBM
> > Docs，Microsoft Office 365,Zoho,Think Free,Adobe Acobat, Cisco WebEx ,all
> > these cloud office documents select the same format. Maybe it is a new
> way
> > for office documents interoperability. As Rob Weir ,OASIS OpenDocument TC
> > chairman,says"
> > I find the topic of web editor interoperability very interesting. It
> > is, in many ways, the continuation of the "office interop" battles we
> > have fought for the last decade. But the new technology brings new
> > challenges and new opportunities, and perhaps even an opportunity to
> > avoid repeating the mistakes of the past!
> > "
> > ODF? OOXML?PDF?HTML?...I think it is better to choose one format for
> > documents interoperability,than choose two or three! It is important
> ,just
> > like ASCII which is the basic for Information Interchange.
> > Do you agree?
>
> ACSII compared to the characters within a GB18030 font ? This is just
> one example why ASCII doesn't work here. UNICODE characters within a XML
> based document format is much better for information exchange especially
> if you use an application that has been globalized and localized to a
> valuable number of languages. And as long as ODF and it's counterparts
> are comparable to other document formats then why should there be a new
> document format? ODF is ISO and OASIS approved, has been designed for
> this purpose and it can be used by everyone. And parts of your ideas
> have already been implemented as UOF in China.
> Using ODFDOM (http://incubator.apache.org/odftoolkit/) as a basis for
> such an application could serve very well as a container to proof
> interoperability between applications by using ODF as it's container.
>
> Kind regards, Joost
>
>
>
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by Joost Andrae <Jo...@gmx.de>.
Hi,
Am 02.10.2012 13:03, schrieb zhun guo:
> Hi,Zhengfan and Ian Lynch,
> All format office documents' interoperability is important.
> 1. ODF and OOXML, is more concerned about data storage. Microsoft, and
> OpenOffice is the supporter。But we need ODF and OOXML to be merged to a
> new one format. And some wroking are doing 。Otherwise， we should face the
> question,just like Ian Lynch's problem.
> 2. HTML, is more concerned about data revealing。 Google Docs，IBM
> Docs，Microsoft Office 365,Zoho,Think Free,Adobe Acobat, Cisco WebEx ,all
> these cloud office documents select the same format. Maybe it is a new way
> for office documents interoperability. As Rob Weir ,OASIS OpenDocument TC
> chairman,says"
> I find the topic of web editor interoperability very interesting. It
> is, in many ways, the continuation of the "office interop" battles we
> have fought for the last decade. But the new technology brings new
> challenges and new opportunities, and perhaps even an opportunity to
> avoid repeating the mistakes of the past!
> "
> ODF? OOXML?PDF?HTML?...I think it is better to choose one format for
> documents interoperability,than choose two or three! It is important ,just
> like ASCII which is the basic for Information Interchange.
> Do you agree?
ACSII compared to the characters within a GB18030 font ? This is just
one example why ASCII doesn't work here. UNICODE characters within a XML
based document format is much better for information exchange especially
if you use an application that has been globalized and localized to a
valuable number of languages. And as long as ODF and it's counterparts
are comparable to other document formats then why should there be a new
document format? ODF is ISO and OASIS approved, has been designed for
this purpose and it can be used by everyone. And parts of your ideas
have already been implemented as UOF in China.
Using ODFDOM (http://incubator.apache.org/odftoolkit/) as a basis for
such an application could serve very well as a container to proof
interoperability between applications by using ODF as it's container.
Kind regards, Joost
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com>.
Hi,Zhengfan and Ian Lynch,
All format office documents' interoperability is important.
1. ODF and OOXML, is more concerned about data storage. Microsoft, and
OpenOffice is the supporter。But we need ODF and OOXML to be merged to a
new one format. And some wroking are doing 。Otherwise， we should face the
question,just like Ian Lynch's problem.
2. HTML, is more concerned about data revealing。 Google Docs，IBM
Docs，Microsoft Office 365,Zoho,Think Free,Adobe Acobat, Cisco WebEx ,all
these cloud office documents select the same format. Maybe it is a new way
for office documents interoperability. As Rob Weir ,OASIS OpenDocument TC
chairman,says"
I find the topic of web editor interoperability very interesting. It
is, in many ways, the continuation of the "office interop" battles we
have fought for the last decade. But the new technology brings new
challenges and new opportunities, and perhaps even an opportunity to
avoid repeating the mistakes of the past!
"
ODF? OOXML?PDF?HTML?...I think it is better to choose one format for
documents interoperability,than choose two or three! It is important ,just
like ASCII which is the basic for Information Interchange.
Do you agree?
ZhunGuo
2012/10/1 Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>
> On 1 October 2012 05:41, zheng.easyfan <zh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > HI, Zhun Guo:
> >
> > In general, I agree with your second point in the mail that, we should
> > make better interoperability of office productions. And my opinion here
> is
> > that, in the category of interoperability, we even should not trying to
> > separate the office applications as on line or off line ones. For
> whatever
> > the type of an office application it is, the exactly necessary function
> it
> > should supplied is to represent a document with specified file format
> > correctly. And to any document from any user of any office application,
> > there should be only one CORRECT representation result anyway.
> > And I guess, the interoperability topics are the most important ones for
> > each member of this community. For such kind of issues, as the most
> visible
> > ones, are always directly driven by users :(
> > So, what is your suggestion or idea for it?
> >
>
> My recent experience with docx to odt has been that for any document with
> tables it is not good enough. I get a lot of routine docs in docX format
> from UK government departments and very few can be used without a lot of
> work. I also don't know how well docs I send to them as exports will appear
> to them. Since Word processing documents are the most common and docX is
> now in much wider use I think the priority needs to be to get the docX odt
> filter to as good a standard as possible particularly with tables, headers,
> footers and page structures. Without this it is going to be very difficult
> for anyone that has to work with government departments to adopt AOO as an
> alternative to MSO. Google Docs does it better and so it means Google Docs
> is then a bigger competitor for AOO too. I also think that whichever of AOO
> or LibO implements these filters the best is likely to get adoption over
> the other.
>
> Zhengfan
> >
> >
> >
> > 已从三星手机发送zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com> 写道：Dear All:
> > It is necessary for all cloud office interoperability with each
> > other. Do you think so ?
> > What I want to do,is not to design a product for my own company. I
> > just want to , between all cloud office websites, it can send documents
> > quickly. Such as ,Google Docs can send documents to Microsoft Office 365
> > quickly, and directly . But now , Google Docs can only send documents
> > using email (SMTP) to Hotmail. So i think HTTP(SPDY) is better than
> SMTP
> > for transfer online office documents ? So we should suggest ,IBM Docs
> > and Office 365 ,Acobat.com use the same protocol.
> > The second thing I want to do ,all online office interoperability .
> > your know , for native office, an Microsoft Office 2010 document should
> > be open and reedit by an Openoffice.org user , it means native office
> > interoperability. Then for the cloud office, it also need
> > interoperability.
> > So let us do this thing together!As I know ,you all are great man and
> > warmhearted! ?Thanks !
> > Please see more details in my email attachments! or via a web site:
> > http://online-office-interoperability.blogspot.com/
> > Best Regards!
> >
> > Zhun Guo
> > Shanghai Biaoma IT Co.
> > www.mabaoo.com
> > mike5guo(at)gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Ian
>
> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
>
> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
>
> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
> Wales.
>
Re: Ask for advice:cloud office interoperability
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
On 1 October 2012 05:41, zheng.easyfan <zh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> HI, Zhun Guo:
>
> In general, I agree with your second point in the mail that, we should
> make better interoperability of office productions. And my opinion here is
> that, in the category of interoperability, we even should not trying to
> separate the office applications as on line or off line ones. For whatever
> the type of an office application it is, the exactly necessary function it
> should supplied is to represent a document with specified file format
> correctly. And to any document from any user of any office application,
> there should be only one CORRECT representation result anyway.
> And I guess, the interoperability topics are the most important ones for
> each member of this community. For such kind of issues, as the most visible
> ones, are always directly driven by users :(
> So, what is your suggestion or idea for it?
>
My recent experience with docx to odt has been that for any document with
tables it is not good enough. I get a lot of routine docs in docX format
from UK government departments and very few can be used without a lot of
work. I also don't know how well docs I send to them as exports will appear
to them. Since Word processing documents are the most common and docX is
now in much wider use I think the priority needs to be to get the docX odt
filter to as good a standard as possible particularly with tables, headers,
footers and page structures. Without this it is going to be very difficult
for anyone that has to work with government departments to adopt AOO as an
alternative to MSO. Google Docs does it better and so it means Google Docs
is then a bigger competitor for AOO too. I also think that whichever of AOO
or LibO implements these filters the best is likely to get adoption over
the other.
Zhengfan
>
>
>
> 已从三星手机发送zhun guo <mi...@gmail.com> 写道：Dear All:
> It is necessary for all cloud office interoperability with each
> other. Do you think so ?
> What I want to do,is not to design a product for my own company. I
> just want to , between all cloud office websites, it can send documents
> quickly. Such as ,Google Docs can send documents to Microsoft Office 365
> quickly, and directly . But now , Google Docs can only send documents
> using email (SMTP) to Hotmail. So i think HTTP(SPDY) is better than SMTP
> for transfer online office documents ? So we should suggest ,IBM Docs
> and Office 365 ,Acobat.com use the same protocol.
> The second thing I want to do ,all online office interoperability .
> your know , for native office, an Microsoft Office 2010 document should
> be open and reedit by an Openoffice.org user , it means native office
> interoperability. Then for the cloud office, it also need
> interoperability.
> So let us do this thing together!As I know ,you all are great man and
> warmhearted! ?Thanks !
> Please see more details in my email attachments! or via a web site:
> http://online-office-interoperability.blogspot.com/
> Best Regards!
>
> Zhun Guo
> Shanghai Biaoma IT Co.
> www.mabaoo.com
> mike5guo(at)gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ)
www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940
The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth,
Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and
Wales.