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Posted to diversity@apache.org by Griselda Cuevas <gr...@google.com.INVALID> on 2019/04/14 05:04:46 UTC
Areas where we want to measure diversity, equity & inclusion
Dinesh proposed we measure diversity in the project growth funnel [1].
Here's an initial list of what stages in the funnel we could measure:
- Potential committers
- Committers
- PMCs
- Board
Other areas outside the funnel:
- Non-code committers
- Community builders
- Advocates
Let's keep adding.
[1]
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/049ad49c0e2f1e704a53f83953886506c304bbcca7c2cae54b8cbd67@%3Cdiversity.apache.org%3E
Re: Areas where we want to measure diversity, equity & inclusion
Posted by Kenneth Knowles <ke...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 4:13 PM Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> I am not suggesting that these be 'the truth', I'm always in favor of
> following up quantity with quality, but it might be a good step in the
> right direction.
>
Thank you for saying this. In a world where on the quantitative side we
measure what is easily measurable (vs what is important) on the qualitative
side we reward things with a simple narrative (vs foundational work that
might only show up in raw numbers) I appreciate any nuanced position. In
order for these not to be "the truth" I would love recommending that
projects report the numbers as well as an explanation, like we do for
mailing list stats. (Am I being naive about this being useful?)
And perhaps there is a follow-up question in reports like "what areas of
contribution are not captured in these metrics or the existing report
template?" where a project might call out those areas that we do not yet
have automated visibility or a qualitative question, such as those Gris
started with, etc, like community organizing, infrastructural on-call style
work, StackOverflow answers, design work. I do not believe all of these
things will appear in Jira, nor that Jira tasks are proportional to effort,
nor that my list is representative. We could hope that projects report
areas for us to consider, and then we have to opportunity to
cross-pollinate, asking project A to comment on the areas that project B
mentioned.
The idea for bio information from new Jira users is separate, and good IMO
if optional.
To conclude on a somewhat mundane note... reporter.apache.org really
dictates what a report looks like for most projects. Is a proposed change
here the way to go?
Kenn
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
>
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Re: Areas where we want to measure diversity, equity & inclusion
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 15/04/2019 11.36, Joan Touzet wrote:
>
>
> On 2019-04-14 3:03 p.m., dinesh.joshi@yahoo.com.INVALID wrote:
>> I would like to suggest another approach at measuring the funnel. I
>> don't know whether this is feasible either but its just an idea that
>> I'd love some feedback on. Most Apache projects seem to be using Jira.
>> Contributors, Committers, PMC & Members are typically are on Jira. I
>> think code as well as non-code tasks should be tracked on Jira boards.
>
> Most, but not all - and, critically, the projects that are the most
> tapped into communities *outside* of the ASF are using GitHub issues and
> have dropped JIRA entirely. Ignoring these will ignore a statistically
> important part of our potential contributors. (I don't like the word
> "funnel" here, it sounds too sales-y.)
>
We have an Apache metrics project, Kibble, that can keep track of both
jira and github (and whatever else we use). What I would love here, is
if we can agree upon, or find, or invent, a set of KPIs that are
programatically measurable and recommend these to the Kibble project as
an enhancement of their metrics program. It could be done in tandem with
a set of recommendations to projects on how to ensure that we can
capture non-code contributions in a fashion that is measurable within
the technological scope we normally have, so that 1) We have a set of
recommended ways of recording the activity that perhaps doesn't get as
much recognition and visibility as it should, and 2) get a way to
measure, visualize and report on these activities.
I am not suggesting that these be 'the truth', I'm always in favor of
following up quantity with quality, but it might be a good step in the
right direction.
With regards,
Daniel.
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Re: Areas where we want to measure diversity, equity & inclusion
Posted by Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>.
On 2019-04-14 3:03 p.m., dinesh.joshi@yahoo.com.INVALID wrote:
> I would like to suggest another approach at measuring the funnel. I don't know whether this is feasible either but its just an idea that I'd love some feedback on. Most Apache projects seem to be using Jira. Contributors, Committers, PMC & Members are typically are on Jira. I think code as well as non-code tasks should be tracked on Jira boards.
Most, but not all - and, critically, the projects that are the most
tapped into communities *outside* of the ASF are using GitHub issues and
have dropped JIRA entirely. Ignoring these will ignore a statistically
important part of our potential contributors. (I don't like the word
"funnel" here, it sounds too sales-y.)
> A potential solution to gather data would be to add a few optional biographical fields that Jira users can fill out. We can also show a one time call to action screen when they next login. The user should be able to easily dismiss it if they don't want to participate. This approach doesn't burden the PMC and we would have a better shot at getting data automatically. It also doesn't spam anyone's emails.
> A slight variation of this idea is to not add any biographical fields to Jira, instead the screen directs the users to fill out the survey. However, I think adding the Biographical fields is better in the longterm as we will collect this data automatically as new people sign up in the Jira.
> Finally, this is just an idea, I am not sure about its feasibility with respect to the Foundation's policies and legal requirements. But if we think this is a good idea, we can figure out answers to those questions as a follow up.
> Thoughts?
> Thanks,
> Dinesh
>
> On Sunday, April 14, 2019, 3:12:38 AM PDT, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 1:05 AM Griselda Cuevas <gr...@google.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> Dinesh proposed we measure diversity in the project growth funnel [1].
>>
>> Here's an initial list of what stages in the funnel we could measure:
>> - Potential committers
>> - Committers
>> - PMCs
>
> Add ASF Members?
>
>> - Board
>>
>> Other areas outside the funnel:
>> - Non-code committers
>> - Community builders
>> - Advocates
>>
>> Let's keep adding.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/049ad49c0e2f1e704a53f83953886506c304bbcca7c2cae54b8cbd67@%3Cdiversity.apache.org%3E
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-help@apache.org
>
>
>
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Re: Areas where we want to measure diversity, equity & inclusion
Posted by "dinesh.joshi@yahoo.com.INVALID" <di...@yahoo.com.INVALID>.
I would like to suggest another approach at measuring the funnel. I don't know whether this is feasible either but its just an idea that I'd love some feedback on. Most Apache projects seem to be using Jira. Contributors, Committers, PMC & Members are typically are on Jira. I think code as well as non-code tasks should be tracked on Jira boards.
A potential solution to gather data would be to add a few optional biographical fields that Jira users can fill out. We can also show a one time call to action screen when they next login. The user should be able to easily dismiss it if they don't want to participate. This approach doesn't burden the PMC and we would have a better shot at getting data automatically. It also doesn't spam anyone's emails.
A slight variation of this idea is to not add any biographical fields to Jira, instead the screen directs the users to fill out the survey. However, I think adding the Biographical fields is better in the longterm as we will collect this data automatically as new people sign up in the Jira.
Finally, this is just an idea, I am not sure about its feasibility with respect to the Foundation's policies and legal requirements. But if we think this is a good idea, we can figure out answers to those questions as a follow up.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Dinesh
On Sunday, April 14, 2019, 3:12:38 AM PDT, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 1:05 AM Griselda Cuevas <gr...@google.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> Dinesh proposed we measure diversity in the project growth funnel [1].
>
> Here's an initial list of what stages in the funnel we could measure:
> - Potential committers
> - Committers
> - PMCs
Add ASF Members?
> - Board
>
> Other areas outside the funnel:
> - Non-code committers
> - Community builders
> - Advocates
>
> Let's keep adding.
>
> [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/049ad49c0e2f1e704a53f83953886506c304bbcca7c2cae54b8cbd67@%3Cdiversity.apache.org%3E
- Sam Ruby
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Re: Areas where we want to measure diversity, equity & inclusion
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 1:05 AM Griselda Cuevas <gr...@google.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> Dinesh proposed we measure diversity in the project growth funnel [1].
>
> Here's an initial list of what stages in the funnel we could measure:
> - Potential committers
> - Committers
> - PMCs
Add ASF Members?
> - Board
>
> Other areas outside the funnel:
> - Non-code committers
> - Community builders
> - Advocates
>
> Let's keep adding.
>
> [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/049ad49c0e2f1e704a53f83953886506c304bbcca7c2cae54b8cbd67@%3Cdiversity.apache.org%3E
- Sam Ruby
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