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Posted to dev@karaf.apache.org by Dan Tran <da...@gmail.com> on 2013/05/13 07:53:55 UTC
[discussion] thoughts on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-1545
?
Hi,
I have addressed my concerns on this enhancement, and would like to hear
more from dev group.
Big Thanks
-Dan
Re: [discussion] thoughts on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-1545
?
Posted by Dan Tran <da...@gmail.com>.
Hi Guillaume,
I am living dangerously by placing my stand-alone apps's jars under lib
directory since karaf is currently pushing those jars into osgi framework
classloader?
Thanks
-Dan
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@apache.org> wrote:
> 2013/5/13 Dan Tran <da...@gmail.com>
>
> > For my case, my distribution consists of Karaf container + our bunbles,
> + a
> > bunch of stand alone apps with bootstrap/startup script generated by
> > appassembler-maven-plugin[1].
> >
> > The standalone apps ( command line utilities, swing app, etc ) have its
> > jars placed under lib directory where the startup/boostrap script will
> use
> > to construct the extract classpath.
> >
> > Now, base on Guillaume Nodet comments, I have to think hard about my
> > approach, since karaf indirectly load all the jars under lib directory to
> > its class loader. The question here, which class loader are we talking
> > about here ( system? ) and which component under karaf would care about
> > this hidden feature?
> >
>
> The only change I suggested is to slightly alter the shell script to add
> lib/system/*.jar to the classpath.
> That keeps all existing installation unchanged and allow more control for
> the jdbc driver use case.
> We need to correctly document the classloading mechanism, but it's a
> minimal change which imho cleanly support the needed use case.
>
>
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > -D
> >
> >
> >
> > [1]
> >
> >
> http://mojo.codehaus.org/appassembler/appassembler-maven-plugin/assemble-mojo.html
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 7:40 AM, Heath Kesler <he...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > Will revert to karaf prefix in the lib and add a sub directory for any
> > > required external jar without karat prefix.
> > >
> > > On May 12, 2013, at 11:53 PM, Dan Tran <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I have addressed my concerns on this enhancement, and would like to
> > hear
> > > > more from dev group.
> > > >
> > > > Big Thanks
> > > >
> > > > -Dan
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [discussion] thoughts on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-1545
?
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@apache.org>.
2013/5/13 Dan Tran <da...@gmail.com>
> For my case, my distribution consists of Karaf container + our bunbles, + a
> bunch of stand alone apps with bootstrap/startup script generated by
> appassembler-maven-plugin[1].
>
> The standalone apps ( command line utilities, swing app, etc ) have its
> jars placed under lib directory where the startup/boostrap script will use
> to construct the extract classpath.
>
> Now, base on Guillaume Nodet comments, I have to think hard about my
> approach, since karaf indirectly load all the jars under lib directory to
> its class loader. The question here, which class loader are we talking
> about here ( system? ) and which component under karaf would care about
> this hidden feature?
>
The only change I suggested is to slightly alter the shell script to add
lib/system/*.jar to the classpath.
That keeps all existing installation unchanged and allow more control for
the jdbc driver use case.
We need to correctly document the classloading mechanism, but it's a
minimal change which imho cleanly support the needed use case.
>
> Thanks
>
> -D
>
>
>
> [1]
>
> http://mojo.codehaus.org/appassembler/appassembler-maven-plugin/assemble-mojo.html
>
>
> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 7:40 AM, Heath Kesler <he...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > Will revert to karaf prefix in the lib and add a sub directory for any
> > required external jar without karat prefix.
> >
> > On May 12, 2013, at 11:53 PM, Dan Tran <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have addressed my concerns on this enhancement, and would like to
> hear
> > > more from dev group.
> > >
> > > Big Thanks
> > >
> > > -Dan
> >
> >
>
Re: [discussion] thoughts on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-1545
?
Posted by Dan Tran <da...@gmail.com>.
For my case, my distribution consists of Karaf container + our bunbles, + a
bunch of stand alone apps with bootstrap/startup script generated by
appassembler-maven-plugin[1].
The standalone apps ( command line utilities, swing app, etc ) have its
jars placed under lib directory where the startup/boostrap script will use
to construct the extract classpath.
Now, base on Guillaume Nodet comments, I have to think hard about my
approach, since karaf indirectly load all the jars under lib directory to
its class loader. The question here, which class loader are we talking
about here ( system? ) and which component under karaf would care about
this hidden feature?
Thanks
-D
[1]
http://mojo.codehaus.org/appassembler/appassembler-maven-plugin/assemble-mojo.html
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 7:40 AM, Heath Kesler <he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> Will revert to karaf prefix in the lib and add a sub directory for any
> required external jar without karat prefix.
>
> On May 12, 2013, at 11:53 PM, Dan Tran <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have addressed my concerns on this enhancement, and would like to hear
> > more from dev group.
> >
> > Big Thanks
> >
> > -Dan
>
>
Re: [discussion] thoughts on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-1545 ?
Posted by Heath Kesler <he...@gmail.com>.
+1
Will revert to karaf prefix in the lib and add a sub directory for any required external jar without karat prefix.
On May 12, 2013, at 11:53 PM, Dan Tran <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have addressed my concerns on this enhancement, and would like to hear
> more from dev group.
>
> Big Thanks
>
> -Dan
Re: [discussion] thoughts on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-1545
?
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hi Dan,
I'm back in the business, I gonna review KARAF-1545 today.
Regards
JB
On 05/13/2013 07:53 AM, Dan Tran wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have addressed my concerns on this enhancement, and would like to hear
> more from dev group.
>
> Big Thanks
>
> -Dan
>
--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com
Re: [discussion] thoughts on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-1545
?
Posted by Achim Nierbeck <bc...@googlemail.com>.
+1
2013/5/13 Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>
> +1
>
> Regards
> JB
>
>
> On 05/13/2013 09:46 AM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>
>> AFAIK, all jar files in the lib folder are added to the classpath, so if
>> anyone want to add jars globally without using bundles, that's the way to
>> go.
>> See
>> https://github.com/apache/**karaf/blob/trunk/main/src/**
>> main/java/org/apache/karaf/**main/Main.java#L266<https://github.com/apache/karaf/blob/trunk/main/src/main/java/org/apache/karaf/main/Main.java#L266>
>>
>> The lib/ext lib/endorsed and lib/karaf-*.jar are used to create the JVM
>> application classloader and make sure the initial environment is quite
>> safe
>> and undisturbed.
>> All other lib/*.jar files are added to the classloader used to create the
>> OSGi framework and should be available
>>
>> For JDBC drivers, they need to be available from the application
>> classloader, so what could be done without changing the current behavior
>> and introducing incompatibilities is to add a lib/app/ folder which would
>> be added to the application classloader (i.e. in the shell scripts).
>>
>> Thoughts ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 2013/5/13 Achim Nierbeck <bc...@googlemail.com>
>>
>> Hi,
>>>
>>> ok, I'd like to get the discussion into the dev-list away from the jira
>>> issue :-)
>>>
>>> Now, I've heard both sides of the story and tbh, it's not an easy thing
>>> here.
>>> I agree that it's not a understandable solution to have bootloaded jars
>>> with a karaf- prefix.
>>> I'm not sure about the bundle looking for external jars in the lib
>>> folder,
>>> it feels almost like an
>>> extra file-installer thing bound to the lib folder.
>>> @Dan could you please elaborate your use-case for placing your custom
>>> libraries in this folder
>>> and how you use them?
>>>
>>> I also agree that a JDBC driver should be used as a bundle and not like a
>>> bootloader jar, though I'm not sure
>>> if this is also doable for the failover configuration.
>>> One of the comments mentioned that it might be a better solution to look
>>> for bootloaded jars in the
>>> lib/karaf folder. Right now to me it sounds most likely to be the only
>>> working solution. Especially since we
>>> do have those "extra" bundles that are managed by the karaf main class.
>>>
>>> regards, Achim
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/5/13 Freeman Fang <fr...@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> I'm also concerned about this change, added my comment in KARAF-1545
>>>> －－－－－－－－－－－－－
>>>> Freeman(Yue) Fang
>>>>
>>>> Red Hat, Inc.
>>>> FuseSource is now part of Red Hat
>>>> Web: http://fusesource.com | http://www.redhat.com/
>>>> Twitter: freemanfang
>>>> Blog: http://freemanfang.blogspot.**com<http://freemanfang.blogspot.com>
>>>> http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/**1473905042<http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1473905042>
>>>> weibo: @Freeman小屋
>>>>
>>>> www.camelone.org : The open source integration conference:
>>>>
>>>> On 2013-5-13, at 下午1:53, Dan Tran wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have addressed my concerns on this enhancement, and would like to
>>>>>
>>>> hear
>>>
>>>> more from dev group.
>>>>>
>>>>> Big Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> -Dan
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC
>>> OPS4J Pax Web <http://wiki.ops4j.org/**display/paxweb/Pax+Web/<http://wiki.ops4j.org/display/paxweb/Pax+Web/>>
>>> Committer &
>>> Project Lead
>>> OPS4J Pax for Vaadin <http://team.ops4j.org/wiki/**
>>> display/PAXVAADIN/Home<http://team.ops4j.org/wiki/display/PAXVAADIN/Home>
>>> >
>>> Commiter & Project Lead
>>> blog <http://notizblog.nierbeck.de/**>
>>>
>>>
>>
> --
> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> jbonofre@apache.org
> http://blog.nanthrax.net
> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>
--
Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC
OPS4J Pax Web <http://wiki.ops4j.org/display/paxweb/Pax+Web/> Committer &
Project Lead
OPS4J Pax for Vaadin <http://team.ops4j.org/wiki/display/PAXVAADIN/Home>
Commiter & Project Lead
blog <http://notizblog.nierbeck.de/>
Re: [discussion] thoughts on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-1545
?
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
+1
Regards
JB
On 05/13/2013 09:46 AM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
> AFAIK, all jar files in the lib folder are added to the classpath, so if
> anyone want to add jars globally without using bundles, that's the way to
> go.
> See
> https://github.com/apache/karaf/blob/trunk/main/src/main/java/org/apache/karaf/main/Main.java#L266
>
> The lib/ext lib/endorsed and lib/karaf-*.jar are used to create the JVM
> application classloader and make sure the initial environment is quite safe
> and undisturbed.
> All other lib/*.jar files are added to the classloader used to create the
> OSGi framework and should be available
>
> For JDBC drivers, they need to be available from the application
> classloader, so what could be done without changing the current behavior
> and introducing incompatibilities is to add a lib/app/ folder which would
> be added to the application classloader (i.e. in the shell scripts).
>
> Thoughts ?
>
>
>
> 2013/5/13 Achim Nierbeck <bc...@googlemail.com>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> ok, I'd like to get the discussion into the dev-list away from the jira
>> issue :-)
>>
>> Now, I've heard both sides of the story and tbh, it's not an easy thing
>> here.
>> I agree that it's not a understandable solution to have bootloaded jars
>> with a karaf- prefix.
>> I'm not sure about the bundle looking for external jars in the lib folder,
>> it feels almost like an
>> extra file-installer thing bound to the lib folder.
>> @Dan could you please elaborate your use-case for placing your custom
>> libraries in this folder
>> and how you use them?
>>
>> I also agree that a JDBC driver should be used as a bundle and not like a
>> bootloader jar, though I'm not sure
>> if this is also doable for the failover configuration.
>> One of the comments mentioned that it might be a better solution to look
>> for bootloaded jars in the
>> lib/karaf folder. Right now to me it sounds most likely to be the only
>> working solution. Especially since we
>> do have those "extra" bundles that are managed by the karaf main class.
>>
>> regards, Achim
>>
>>
>> 2013/5/13 Freeman Fang <fr...@gmail.com>
>>
>>> I'm also concerned about this change, added my comment in KARAF-1545
>>> －－－－－－－－－－－－－
>>> Freeman(Yue) Fang
>>>
>>> Red Hat, Inc.
>>> FuseSource is now part of Red Hat
>>> Web: http://fusesource.com | http://www.redhat.com/
>>> Twitter: freemanfang
>>> Blog: http://freemanfang.blogspot.com
>>> http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1473905042
>>> weibo: @Freeman小屋
>>>
>>> www.camelone.org : The open source integration conference:
>>>
>>> On 2013-5-13, at 下午1:53, Dan Tran wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I have addressed my concerns on this enhancement, and would like to
>> hear
>>>> more from dev group.
>>>>
>>>> Big Thanks
>>>>
>>>> -Dan
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC
>> OPS4J Pax Web <http://wiki.ops4j.org/display/paxweb/Pax+Web/> Committer &
>> Project Lead
>> OPS4J Pax for Vaadin <http://team.ops4j.org/wiki/display/PAXVAADIN/Home>
>> Commiter & Project Lead
>> blog <http://notizblog.nierbeck.de/>
>>
>
--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com
Re: [discussion] thoughts on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-1545 ?
Posted by Freeman Fang <fr...@gmail.com>.
+1
－－－－－－－－－－－－－
Freeman(Yue) Fang
Red Hat, Inc.
FuseSource is now part of Red Hat
Web: http://fusesource.com | http://www.redhat.com/
Twitter: freemanfang
Blog: http://freemanfang.blogspot.com
http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1473905042
weibo: @Freeman小屋
www.camelone.org : The open source integration conference:
On 2013-5-13, at 下午3:46, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
> AFAIK, all jar files in the lib folder are added to the classpath, so if
> anyone want to add jars globally without using bundles, that's the way to
> go.
> See
> https://github.com/apache/karaf/blob/trunk/main/src/main/java/org/apache/karaf/main/Main.java#L266
>
> The lib/ext lib/endorsed and lib/karaf-*.jar are used to create the JVM
> application classloader and make sure the initial environment is quite safe
> and undisturbed.
> All other lib/*.jar files are added to the classloader used to create the
> OSGi framework and should be available
>
> For JDBC drivers, they need to be available from the application
> classloader, so what could be done without changing the current behavior
> and introducing incompatibilities is to add a lib/app/ folder which would
> be added to the application classloader (i.e. in the shell scripts).
>
> Thoughts ?
>
>
>
> 2013/5/13 Achim Nierbeck <bc...@googlemail.com>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> ok, I'd like to get the discussion into the dev-list away from the jira
>> issue :-)
>>
>> Now, I've heard both sides of the story and tbh, it's not an easy thing
>> here.
>> I agree that it's not a understandable solution to have bootloaded jars
>> with a karaf- prefix.
>> I'm not sure about the bundle looking for external jars in the lib folder,
>> it feels almost like an
>> extra file-installer thing bound to the lib folder.
>> @Dan could you please elaborate your use-case for placing your custom
>> libraries in this folder
>> and how you use them?
>>
>> I also agree that a JDBC driver should be used as a bundle and not like a
>> bootloader jar, though I'm not sure
>> if this is also doable for the failover configuration.
>> One of the comments mentioned that it might be a better solution to look
>> for bootloaded jars in the
>> lib/karaf folder. Right now to me it sounds most likely to be the only
>> working solution. Especially since we
>> do have those "extra" bundles that are managed by the karaf main class.
>>
>> regards, Achim
>>
>>
>> 2013/5/13 Freeman Fang <fr...@gmail.com>
>>
>>> I'm also concerned about this change, added my comment in KARAF-1545
>>> －－－－－－－－－－－－－
>>> Freeman(Yue) Fang
>>>
>>> Red Hat, Inc.
>>> FuseSource is now part of Red Hat
>>> Web: http://fusesource.com | http://www.redhat.com/
>>> Twitter: freemanfang
>>> Blog: http://freemanfang.blogspot.com
>>> http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1473905042
>>> weibo: @Freeman小屋
>>>
>>> www.camelone.org : The open source integration conference:
>>>
>>> On 2013-5-13, at 下午1:53, Dan Tran wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I have addressed my concerns on this enhancement, and would like to
>> hear
>>>> more from dev group.
>>>>
>>>> Big Thanks
>>>>
>>>> -Dan
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC
>> OPS4J Pax Web <http://wiki.ops4j.org/display/paxweb/Pax+Web/> Committer &
>> Project Lead
>> OPS4J Pax for Vaadin <http://team.ops4j.org/wiki/display/PAXVAADIN/Home>
>> Commiter & Project Lead
>> blog <http://notizblog.nierbeck.de/>
>>
Re: [discussion] thoughts on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-1545
?
Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@apache.org>.
AFAIK, all jar files in the lib folder are added to the classpath, so if
anyone want to add jars globally without using bundles, that's the way to
go.
See
https://github.com/apache/karaf/blob/trunk/main/src/main/java/org/apache/karaf/main/Main.java#L266
The lib/ext lib/endorsed and lib/karaf-*.jar are used to create the JVM
application classloader and make sure the initial environment is quite safe
and undisturbed.
All other lib/*.jar files are added to the classloader used to create the
OSGi framework and should be available
For JDBC drivers, they need to be available from the application
classloader, so what could be done without changing the current behavior
and introducing incompatibilities is to add a lib/app/ folder which would
be added to the application classloader (i.e. in the shell scripts).
Thoughts ?
2013/5/13 Achim Nierbeck <bc...@googlemail.com>
> Hi,
>
> ok, I'd like to get the discussion into the dev-list away from the jira
> issue :-)
>
> Now, I've heard both sides of the story and tbh, it's not an easy thing
> here.
> I agree that it's not a understandable solution to have bootloaded jars
> with a karaf- prefix.
> I'm not sure about the bundle looking for external jars in the lib folder,
> it feels almost like an
> extra file-installer thing bound to the lib folder.
> @Dan could you please elaborate your use-case for placing your custom
> libraries in this folder
> and how you use them?
>
> I also agree that a JDBC driver should be used as a bundle and not like a
> bootloader jar, though I'm not sure
> if this is also doable for the failover configuration.
> One of the comments mentioned that it might be a better solution to look
> for bootloaded jars in the
> lib/karaf folder. Right now to me it sounds most likely to be the only
> working solution. Especially since we
> do have those "extra" bundles that are managed by the karaf main class.
>
> regards, Achim
>
>
> 2013/5/13 Freeman Fang <fr...@gmail.com>
>
> > I'm also concerned about this change, added my comment in KARAF-1545
> > －－－－－－－－－－－－－
> > Freeman(Yue) Fang
> >
> > Red Hat, Inc.
> > FuseSource is now part of Red Hat
> > Web: http://fusesource.com | http://www.redhat.com/
> > Twitter: freemanfang
> > Blog: http://freemanfang.blogspot.com
> > http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1473905042
> > weibo: @Freeman小屋
> >
> > www.camelone.org : The open source integration conference:
> >
> > On 2013-5-13, at 下午1:53, Dan Tran wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have addressed my concerns on this enhancement, and would like to
> hear
> > > more from dev group.
> > >
> > > Big Thanks
> > >
> > > -Dan
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC
> OPS4J Pax Web <http://wiki.ops4j.org/display/paxweb/Pax+Web/> Committer &
> Project Lead
> OPS4J Pax for Vaadin <http://team.ops4j.org/wiki/display/PAXVAADIN/Home>
> Commiter & Project Lead
> blog <http://notizblog.nierbeck.de/>
>
Re: [discussion] thoughts on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-1545
?
Posted by Achim Nierbeck <bc...@googlemail.com>.
Hi,
ok, I'd like to get the discussion into the dev-list away from the jira
issue :-)
Now, I've heard both sides of the story and tbh, it's not an easy thing
here.
I agree that it's not a understandable solution to have bootloaded jars
with a karaf- prefix.
I'm not sure about the bundle looking for external jars in the lib folder,
it feels almost like an
extra file-installer thing bound to the lib folder.
@Dan could you please elaborate your use-case for placing your custom
libraries in this folder
and how you use them?
I also agree that a JDBC driver should be used as a bundle and not like a
bootloader jar, though I'm not sure
if this is also doable for the failover configuration.
One of the comments mentioned that it might be a better solution to look
for bootloaded jars in the
lib/karaf folder. Right now to me it sounds most likely to be the only
working solution. Especially since we
do have those "extra" bundles that are managed by the karaf main class.
regards, Achim
2013/5/13 Freeman Fang <fr...@gmail.com>
> I'm also concerned about this change, added my comment in KARAF-1545
> －－－－－－－－－－－－－
> Freeman(Yue) Fang
>
> Red Hat, Inc.
> FuseSource is now part of Red Hat
> Web: http://fusesource.com | http://www.redhat.com/
> Twitter: freemanfang
> Blog: http://freemanfang.blogspot.com
> http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1473905042
> weibo: @Freeman小屋
>
> www.camelone.org : The open source integration conference:
>
> On 2013-5-13, at 下午1:53, Dan Tran wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have addressed my concerns on this enhancement, and would like to hear
> > more from dev group.
> >
> > Big Thanks
> >
> > -Dan
>
>
--
Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC
OPS4J Pax Web <http://wiki.ops4j.org/display/paxweb/Pax+Web/> Committer &
Project Lead
OPS4J Pax for Vaadin <http://team.ops4j.org/wiki/display/PAXVAADIN/Home>
Commiter & Project Lead
blog <http://notizblog.nierbeck.de/>
Re: [discussion] thoughts on https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-1545 ?
Posted by Freeman Fang <fr...@gmail.com>.
I'm also concerned about this change, added my comment in KARAF-1545
－－－－－－－－－－－－－
Freeman(Yue) Fang
Red Hat, Inc.
FuseSource is now part of Red Hat
Web: http://fusesource.com | http://www.redhat.com/
Twitter: freemanfang
Blog: http://freemanfang.blogspot.com
http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1473905042
weibo: @Freeman小屋
www.camelone.org : The open source integration conference:
On 2013-5-13, at 下午1:53, Dan Tran wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have addressed my concerns on this enhancement, and would like to hear
> more from dev group.
>
> Big Thanks
>
> -Dan